Bush talks about ID

moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva.Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
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  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    My conservative friends hate me because I disagree with them on almost every social issue, and this is one of them.

    Intelligent design is an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned.

    It’s like an "awww **** it" approach to science.

    While evolution has volumes of evidence to back it up intelligent design basically comes down to faith in some sort of deity.

    Keep this kind of stuff in the realm of theology and I have no problem, but don't insult real science with this nonsense.
  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835 Advanced user
    discussion forum senses tingling!!! :o
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    QUOTE (reasa @ Aug 4 2005, 11:13 AM)
    My conservative friends hate me because I disagree with them on almost every social issue, and this is one of them.

    Intelligent design is an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned.

    It’s like an "awww **** it" approach to science.

    While evolution has volumes of evidence to back it up intelligent design basically comes down to faith in some sort of deity.

    Keep this kind of stuff in the realm of theology and I have no problem, but don't insult real science with this nonsense.

    What burns me up the most is when people write things supporting intelligent design, and they do it using a computer. They are sitting there basking in the societal benefits of science, then taking a big crap all over it.

    asrifle.gif
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    You have to love how it's basically Christianity "under the radar" because I never see them mentioning God or a Christian God as the "Designer" but you just know that its implied.

    I suppose they think they can push it so hard because you can't directly blame Christians for it even though their the ones pushing for it.
  • StormLiongStormLiong Members Join Date: 2002-12-27 Member: 11569Posts: 564
    QUOTE (reasa @ Aug 4 2005, 11:13 AM)
    My conservative friends hate me because I disagree with them on almost every social issue, and this is one of them.

    Intelligent design is an oxymoron as far as I'm concerned.

    It’s like an "awww **** it" approach to science.

    While evolution has volumes of evidence to back it up intelligent design basically comes down to faith in some sort of deity.

    Keep this kind of stuff in the realm of theology and I have no problem, but don't insult real science with this nonsense.

    That is what gripes me as well with the evolution debate. I mean yes granted evolution is still a theory but give a credible alternative at least. Something that has scientific backing!

    And plus what do you learn about intelligent design. You can have a whole chapter about evolution, even a textbook on it. But intelligent design would be like what? A paragraph?

    One other thing about the movement supporting intelligent design that I hate about is that they want to go AROUND the scientific community and put it straight to the school education system.
    $:Can't I dream alone?
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  • DepotDepot The ModFather Members Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE
    But among experts, there is no debate worth mentioning.

    So sayeth WHO ?!?!? This article was obviously written solely for the purpose of Bush-bashing. I agree with Bush's position - it should be left up to the individual school districts, and "both sides ought to be properly taught".
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  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    edited August 2005
    QUOTE (moultano @ Aug 4 2005, 11:16 AM)
    What burns me up the most is when people write things supporting intelligent design, and they do it using a computer. They are sitting there basking in the societal benefits of science, then taking a big crap all over it.

    asrifle.gif

    Isaac Asimov once remarked that science triumphed over religion as an explanation of how the world works sometime in the seventeenth century, when churches started putting lightning conductors on their roofs.

    QUOTE (Depot[/quote)
    So sayeth WHO ?!?!? This article was obviously written solely for the purpose of Bush-bashing. I agree with Bush's position - it should be left up to the individual school districts, and "both sides ought to be properly taught".

    I.D. is a belief that there is a "designer", and evolution is wrong. That's pretty much it. Every I.D. site I've ever seen is devoted to proving evolution wrong, but offers no scientific alternative.
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  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (Depot @ Aug 4 2005, 11:32 AM)
    QUOTE
    But among experts, there is no debate worth mentioning.

    So sayeth WHO ?!?!? This article was obviously written solely for the purpose of Bush-bashing. I agree with Bush's position - it should be left up to the individual school districts, and "both sides ought to be properly taught".

    Yes, they should, Evolution should be taught in Science class and ID should be taught in Theology.

    Now...getting a theology class into public schools is all they have to do. biggrin-fix.gif

    As was said, how much can you teach about ID?

    "OK class you see this bug...it’s really really tiny...and complex and stuff....so...umm...God made it."

    Unless I'm missing something this is pretty much the jist of ID.
  • DrSuredeathDrSuredeath Members Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8217Posts: 1,765
    edited August 2005
    How on earth are they gonna teach the kids when one sentence can summarize intelligent design? No evidence. Nada.
    "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
    - Shigeru Miyamoto
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Members Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE (reasa @ Aug 4 2005, 12:35 PM)
    QUOTE (Depot @ Aug 4 2005, 11:32 AM)
    QUOTE
    But among experts, there is no debate worth mentioning.

    So sayeth WHO ?!?!? This article was obviously written solely for the purpose of Bush-bashing. I agree with Bush's position - it should be left up to the individual school districts, and "both sides ought to be properly taught".

    Yes, they should, Evolution should be taught in Science class and ID should be taught in Theology.

    Now...getting a theology class into public schools is all they have to do. biggrin-fix.gif

    As was said, how much can you teach about ID?

    "OK class you see this bug...it’s really really tiny...and complex and stuff....so...umm...God made it."

    Unless I'm missing something this is pretty much the jist of ID.

    Why are you minimalizing ID? As I recall, philosophers as far back as Plato have reasoned that the complexity of nature shows grounds for believing in supernatural design.
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  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    edited August 2005
    Philosophy is not a science.
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  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (Depot @ Aug 4 2005, 11:38 AM)
    Why are you minimalizing ID? As I recall, philosophers as far back as Plato have reasoned that the complexity of nature shows grounds for believing in supernatural design.

    Plato was a philosopher...not a biologist...
  • Vahn_PaktuVahn_Paktu Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-10-28 Member: 1666Posts: 594 Advanced user
    Sadly I'm past the age that this would be taught to me. I would have so much fun bashing it during class.

    QUOTE
    Yes, they should, Evolution should be taught in Science class and ID should be taught in Theology.

    Now...getting a theology class into public schools is all they have to do. biggrin-fix.gif

    AGREED! This would be a good solution.

  • DepotDepot The ModFather Members Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE (reasa @ Aug 4 2005, 12:39 PM)
    QUOTE (Depot @ Aug 4 2005, 11:38 AM)
    Why are you minimalizing ID? As I recall, philosophers as far back as Plato have reasoned that the complexity of nature shows grounds for believing in supernatural design.

    Plato was a philosopher...not a biologist...

    And you are challenging his wisdom? I happen to agree with HIM on this subject also. tounge.gif
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  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835 Advanced user
    um... don't I.D. followers think that fossils were put on earth as a joke by god? ...isn't that a tad silly even by religious standards? o.O
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (Geminosity @ Aug 4 2005, 11:42 AM)
    um... don't I.D. followers think that fossils were put on earth as a joke by god? ...isn't that a tad silly even by religious standards? o.O

    No I think those are Creationists, although depending on the teacher you get, who knows how each individual teacher will interpret ID, so maybe this stuff will become standard material...

    I pity the next few generations.
  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835 Advanced user
    isn't creationism just another branch of I.D. though? :p
  • DrSuredeathDrSuredeath Members Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8217Posts: 1,765
    QUOTE (Geminosity @ Aug 4 2005, 11:42 AM)
    um... don't I.D. followers think that fossils were put on earth as a joke by god? ...isn't that a tad silly even by religious standards? o.O

    My old Bible teacher (a very good man I might add, a Seventh-day Adventist) taught me that it's possible many of the monsters mentioned in the bible could be dinosaurs.
    "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever"
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  • MerkabaMerkaba Digital Harmony Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Posts: 2,571
    edited August 2005
    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And then, he rested. See you tomorrow!
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  • MetalcatMetalcat Members Join Date: 2004-08-11 Member: 30528Posts: 1,321
    wait, are you guys saying you dont have classes devoted to religion in school? confused-fix.gif
    im from www.denmark.dk woot in ya face :P
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  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    edited August 2005
    I thought dinosaurs died out long before humans were able to write.

    QUOTE (Metalcat)
    wait, are you guys saying you dont have classes devoted to religion in school?

    I did, but I went to a Protestant (Church of England) school. And we didn't learn that evolution was bunk, 'cos it ain't.
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  • Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell... Members Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Posts: 4,200 mod
    edited August 2005
    I'd like to note that ID and natural selection are not mutually exclusive until you add a religious twist to ID: having "designer" mean "my god."

    Many devoutly religious people aren't willing to consider their diety as a big guy who makes genetic mutations to individual creatures from time to time just to see whether they live on and spread their genes through "survival of the fittest." It implies too directly that their god is not only capable of mistakes, but makes them on a very regular basis; the majority of such changes end up as screwups, and only a fraction of the new creatures become common, new, evolved species.
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  • MerkabaMerkaba Digital Harmony Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Posts: 2,571
    We had Religeous Education in school, but it was there to inform and enlighten you about people's religeons. Not to teach it as a science.
    "I am the woodsie lord, the Trickster of legend. If you be thirsty, flesh thing, drink of me. If you be hungry, then feed, for I am the honey-maker and the jacksberry." ~ The Trickster, Thief: The Dark Project (1998)
  • DepotDepot The ModFather Members Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Metalcat @ Aug 4 2005, 12:50 PM)
    wait, are you guys saying you dont have classes devoted to religion in school? confused-fix.gif

    As a rule Metalcat there is a seperation between "church and state".
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  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    So you don't learn about religion in school over there?
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  • lolfighterlolfighter Snark, Dire Members Join Date: 2003-04-20 Member: 15693Posts: 9,005 Advanced user
    I.D. belongs to theology, and should be taught as such. I.e. in theology class. We had that in school, and we were taught that in the beginning, God made the heaven and the earth and all that. And then later on, when we were capable of grasping it, we were taught (in biology I think) the theory of evolution. And everybody could make up their own damn mind about what they wanted to believe. And if you want to believe that in the beginning, God made the universe and then he thought "hey, let's see what'll happen now," and life spontaneously evolved and God **** himself with laughter, you could believe that too.
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  • DepotDepot The ModFather Members Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7956Posts: 6,411 Fully active user
    QUOTE (Snidely @ Aug 4 2005, 12:58 PM)
    So you don't learn about religion in school over there?

    Unfortunately, some school districts have mandated the Pledge of Allegiance either not be said at day's beginning, or that it be modified to eliminate the words "under God" from it. Indeed it's a sad affair... sad-fix.gif
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  • GeminosityGeminosity :3 Members Join Date: 2003-09-08 Member: 20667Posts: 5,835 Advanced user
    QUOTE
    God **** himself with laughter


    ahhhh... at least that's the great flood that noah survived explained at least ^^
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited August 2005
    QUOTE (Depot @ Aug 4 2005, 12:01 PM)
    QUOTE (Snidely @ Aug 4 2005, 12:58 PM)
    So you don't learn about religion in school over there?

    Unfortunately, some school districts have mandated the Pledge of Allegiance either not be said at day's beginning, or that it be modified to eliminate the words "under God" from it. Indeed it's a sad affair... sad-fix.gif

    I think we ought to remove "under god." Restore the pledge to its original pre-cold-war form.

    (but this is probably one for the discussion forum.)
  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    QUOTE (Depot @ Aug 4 2005, 12:01 PM)
    QUOTE (Snidely @ Aug 4 2005, 12:58 PM)
    So you don't learn about religion in school over there?

    Unfortunately, some school districts have mandated the Pledge of Allegiance either not be said at day's beginning, or that it be modified to eliminate the words "under God" from it. Indeed it's a sad affair... sad-fix.gif

    That's not what I mean. I was asking if you learn about the major religions, and what they're about? Y'know, what Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism etc. all preach, a bit of their history, that sort of thing.
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