<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Aug 1 2005, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 1 2005, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakestyles+Aug 1 2005, 03:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snakestyles @ Aug 1 2005, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Never mind the fades whats all this talk about comm chair blocking in scrimms,isnt that a bit dodgy,didnt the dev team talk about that in the past?. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No and its perfectly legal in cal, you can comm chair block as long as a skulk can still fit through. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And i might add that such isnt the case in euroland, though personal opinions may differ.
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Aug 1 2005, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 1 2005, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakestyles+Aug 1 2005, 03:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snakestyles @ Aug 1 2005, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Never mind the fades whats all this talk about comm chair blocking in scrimms,isnt that a bit dodgy,didnt the dev team talk about that in the past?. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No and its perfectly legal in cal, you can comm chair block as long as a skulk can still fit through. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> k i stand corrected soz.
<!--QuoteBegin-Josheh+Aug 1 2005, 05:13 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josheh @ Aug 1 2005, 05:13 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If anything needs to be nerfed its the ratehacking, hitboxless (lol,) flying skulk of doom. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> qft x 100
cc blocking really is quite lame, can't marines kill the fade without making invisible walls? I've seen plenty of games where a cc materializes right in front of a fade as he is mid exit. He can't react to it (can you react to something in under .2 seconds?) and it will delay him for a minimum of 1 second to get up a good blink started again. That is easily more than enough time to waste the fade. It's almost completely skilless on the comm's part (fade goes in, drop cc at door) and if a skilled comm drops the cc he can time it to really screw up the fade.
<!--QuoteBegin-NGE+Aug 1 2005, 10:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Aug 1 2005, 10:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> cc blocking really is quite lame, can't marines kill the fade without making invisible walls? I've seen plenty of games where a cc materializes right in front of a fade as he is mid exit. He can't react to it (can you react to something in under .2 seconds?) and it will delay him for a minimum of 1 second to get up a good blink started again. That is easily more than enough time to waste the fade. It's almost completely skilless on the comm's part (fade goes in, drop cc at door) and if a skilled comm drops the cc he can time it to really screw up the fade. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> A good fade always anticipates the cc block.
Does anyone else think it's wrong for so much inportance to fall on the fade? Uber leet skillz and stats aside, i think most people will agree the fade is the kharaa unit to determine the game for the aliens. The other classes are important in their own special way, but if the rines don't die from a skulk rush right off the bat, you need a fade to win. You could probably go the entire game without seeing a lerk or an onos and still win if the fade did a good job. And looking at the fades abilities you see he is by and far not a team player. By that i mean he doesn't need a team to do well. Aslong as he has his Meta he can sustain combat without any support. No other alien can do that, not even the gorge which vomits healing goodness from its mouth. The Fade is the warrior class of the aliens, but it shouldn't be the only warrior on the field. Moving some of the offensive power to the lerks and gorges, while making the fade less capable to solo would probably balance out the aliens better.
<!--QuoteBegin-Slate+Aug 2 2005, 02:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Slate @ Aug 2 2005, 02:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does anyone else think it's wrong for so much inportance to fall on the fade? Uber leet skillz and stats aside, i think most people will agree the fade is the kharaa unit to determine the game for the aliens. The other classes are important in their own special way, but if the rines don't die from a skulk rush right off the bat, you need a fade to win. You could probably go the entire game without seeing a lerk or an onos and still win if the fade did a good job. And looking at the fades abilities you see he is by and far not a team player. By that i mean he doesn't need a team to do well. Aslong as he has his Meta he can sustain combat without any support. No other alien can do that, not even the gorge which vomits healing goodness from its mouth. The Fade is the warrior class of the aliens, but it shouldn't be the only warrior on the field. Moving some of the offensive power to the lerks and gorges, while making the fade less capable to solo would probably balance out the aliens better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I agree, the fade has too much depedence on him, more should be shifted to the onos/highest life form. A short explaination
In NS (and other games?) you need 3 things to kill an opponent (or alien specific in this case)
Aim: Landing enough hits to destroy the enemy (this also includes the ability to hear footsteps, to know where to aim). This is the skill part of NS
Firepower: Making sure the hits do enough damage. The player rarely has control over this.
Time: Enough time to accurately fire off enough rounds/blasts to destroy the target. This is based on how long the target is in view, usually the target will determine this, but sometime the shooter does as well (another enemy distracting the marine for example)
All of the aliens require these 3 things some to a greater extent, some to a lesser extent, with the sole exception of the onos.
The onos is so simple to hit due to size and speed it only requires time and firepower. A total pro with an LMG who clearly has more skill than a newb with an HMG stands less of a chance against an Onos.
In short, it takes almost 0 talent to kill an onos, only firepower and time, where as the other aliens require aim in varying degrees.
How do you balance the game when the most expensive alien requires no talent to kill, only firepower.
The only way that I see to balance this is to make the onos/ultimate lifeform a more skill based class.
I do not know how to do this due to the inherent nature of the onos. Thats why when I say highest lifeform, because the onos should scrapped and replaced with an alien that requires all 3 elements of eliminating an enemy.
I agree totally with Firewater. The problem with the Onos is that killing him is almost completely not dependant on skill, but only whether you have a sufficent threshold of firepower in the area (and perhaps whether you materialize a com chair in his path when he tries to retreat). And on the Onos side, not dying is based mostly on recognizing when the marines have that threshold of firepower, and then running somewhere else to fight. Only a small amount of Onos survivability is based on his actual combat prowess.
In 2.x this was somewhat better, just because the Onos hitbox was about the size of a Fade, so aiming at him was actually quite difficult. But I wouldn't want to go back to that now--I have to imagine theres a better way to balance the Onos then making most of his model mysteriously not take damage. I just don't know what it is yet...
<!--QuoteBegin-Ots+Aug 1 2005, 06:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ots @ Aug 1 2005, 06:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Aug 1 2005, 04:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Aug 1 2005, 04:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Snakestyles+Aug 1 2005, 03:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snakestyles @ Aug 1 2005, 03:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Never mind the fades whats all this talk about comm chair blocking in scrimms,isnt that a bit dodgy,didnt the dev team talk about that in the past?. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No and its perfectly legal in cal, you can comm chair block as long as a skulk can still fit through. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And i might add that such isnt the case in euroland, though personal opinions may differ. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah well euroland is also blockscripts, rofl.
Comments
No and its perfectly legal in cal, you can comm chair block as long as a skulk can still fit through. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And i might add that such isnt the case in euroland, though personal opinions may differ.
No and its perfectly legal in cal, you can comm chair block as long as a skulk can still fit through. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
k i stand corrected soz.
If anything needs to be nerfed its the ratehacking, hitboxless (lol,) flying skulk of doom.
qft x 100
A good fade always anticipates the cc block.
Uber leet skillz and stats aside, i think most people will agree the fade is the kharaa unit to determine the game for the aliens. The other classes are important in their own special way, but if the rines don't die from a skulk rush right off the bat, you need a fade to win. You could probably go the entire game without seeing a lerk or an onos and still win if the fade did a good job.
And looking at the fades abilities you see he is by and far not a team player. By that i mean he doesn't need a team to do well. Aslong as he has his Meta he can sustain combat without any support. No other alien can do that, not even the gorge which vomits healing goodness from its mouth.
The Fade is the warrior class of the aliens, but it shouldn't be the only warrior on the field. Moving some of the offensive power to the lerks and gorges, while making the fade less capable to solo would probably balance out the aliens better.
No I didn't <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> read again.
Uber leet skillz and stats aside, i think most people will agree the fade is the kharaa unit to determine the game for the aliens. The other classes are important in their own special way, but if the rines don't die from a skulk rush right off the bat, you need a fade to win. You could probably go the entire game without seeing a lerk or an onos and still win if the fade did a good job.
And looking at the fades abilities you see he is by and far not a team player. By that i mean he doesn't need a team to do well. Aslong as he has his Meta he can sustain combat without any support. No other alien can do that, not even the gorge which vomits healing goodness from its mouth.
The Fade is the warrior class of the aliens, but it shouldn't be the only warrior on the field. Moving some of the offensive power to the lerks and gorges, while making the fade less capable to solo would probably balance out the aliens better. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree, the fade has too much depedence on him, more should be shifted to the onos/highest life form. A short explaination
In NS (and other games?) you need 3 things to kill an opponent (or alien specific in this case)
Aim: Landing enough hits to destroy the enemy (this also includes the ability to hear footsteps, to know where to aim). This is the skill part of NS
Firepower: Making sure the hits do enough damage. The player rarely has control over this.
Time: Enough time to accurately fire off enough rounds/blasts to destroy the target. This is based on how long the target is in view, usually the target will determine this, but sometime the shooter does as well (another enemy distracting the marine for example)
All of the aliens require these 3 things some to a greater extent, some to a lesser extent, with the sole exception of the onos.
The onos is so simple to hit due to size and speed it only requires time and firepower. A total pro with an LMG who clearly has more skill than a newb with an HMG stands less of a chance against an Onos.
In short, it takes almost 0 talent to kill an onos, only firepower and time, where as the other aliens require aim in varying degrees.
How do you balance the game when the most expensive alien requires no talent to kill, only firepower.
The only way that I see to balance this is to make the onos/ultimate lifeform a more skill based class.
I do not know how to do this due to the inherent nature of the onos. Thats why when I say highest lifeform, because the onos should scrapped and replaced with an alien that requires all 3 elements of eliminating an enemy.
In 2.x this was somewhat better, just because the Onos hitbox was about the size of a Fade, so aiming at him was actually quite difficult. But I wouldn't want to go back to that now--I have to imagine theres a better way to balance the Onos then making most of his model mysteriously not take damage. I just don't know what it is yet...
No and its perfectly legal in cal, you can comm chair block as long as a skulk can still fit through. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And i might add that such isnt the case in euroland, though personal opinions may differ. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah well euroland is also blockscripts, rofl.