<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Jun 27 2005, 09:07 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Jun 27 2005, 09:07 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Nadagast+Jun 28 2005, 12:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nadagast @ Jun 28 2005, 12:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Terror agreed to switch servers <u><b>if we forfeited the 2nd half of the Origin game</b></u>. No thanks... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that what you guys did anyway? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes but we decided to forfeit the entire thing because of how badly the situation was handled, instead of playing under total BS conditions on veil...
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yay, blame the other team for your own problems!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't think I was blaming them for our problems, I was blaming them for not letting us play a fair game. Of course, strawman arguments are always fun aren't they Firewater? <a href='http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html' target='_blank'>http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-ultranewb+Jun 27 2005, 08:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ultranewb @ Jun 27 2005, 08:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So, our placement in the finals just feels like a big Special Olympics giveme gold medal. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> We won in first round *** and lost to terror in the semis. The only thing special about our team is you and isamil.
Quoted for lies:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It sucks because Terror got robbed of having a legit win under every circumstance. Winning against a crippled team or a having "giveme" rounds just doesn't give any satisfaction. Now, everyone can say - with all truth - that Terror only technically won. After so many weeks of work, Terror only gets to claim "We are the techincal champions!" - what a rip-off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Terror got robbed?
In my opinion <b>common sense and decency</b> got robbed on this occasion.
Basing my information on what has appeared in this thread, which hasn't been disputed by the parties concerned: the CAL representatives responsible for their textbook antics should be replaced by robots (who would do exactly the same thing with less effort) or someone with half a braincell knocking about in their hollow skull, because I'm sure that the latter would have been able to see that postponing the match or changing servers were the only viable choices in that situation. If CAL want to regain the slightest shred of dignity they should listen carefully when I say "An apology is definitely in order".
As for Terror, it pains me to see such unsportsmanlike behaviour from a team that's at the top of their game and should be setting an example to other aspiring "cyberathletes". Again from the information in this thread, their choice to completely screw over the other team (ftw?) is an appalling -nay disgraceful- display of dishonesty and leaves me with no doubt in my mind that they have emerged as this seasons undeserving winners and collectively as its <i>least valuable player</i>.
If Terror had offered to reschedule the match in light of Exigent's quite patent connection difficulties or played on another server, they would have kept their dignity. Whoever played a part in taking the easy win should seriously re-evaluate their actions, and whether they are fit to play in competition of any kind.
---
A sad day for Competitive NS (and it has nothing to do with the Dev Team, nice one <i>gentleman</i>)...
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jun 28 2005, 06:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jun 28 2005, 06:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Quoted for lies:<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It sucks because Terror got robbed of having a legit win under every circumstance. Winning against a crippled team or a having "giveme" rounds just doesn't give any satisfaction. Now, everyone can say - with all truth - that Terror only technically won. After so many weeks of work, Terror only gets to claim "We are the techincal champions!" - what a rip-off.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->Terror got robbed?
In my opinion <b>common sense and decency</b> got robbed on this occasion.
Basing my information on what has appeared in this thread, which hasn't been disputed by the parties concerned: the CAL representatives responsible for their textbook antics should be replaced by robots (who would do exactly the same thing with less effort) or someone with half a braincell knocking about in their hollow skull, because I'm sure that the latter would have been able to see that postponing the match or changing servers were the only viable choices in that situation. If CAL want to regain the slightest shred of dignity they should listen carefully when I say "An apology is definitely in order".
As for Terror, it pains me to see such unsportsmanlike behaviour from a team that's at the top of their game and should be setting an example to other aspiring "cyberathletes". Again from the information in this thread, their choice to completely screw over the other team (ftw?) is an appalling -nay disgraceful- display of dishonesty and leaves me with no doubt in my mind that they have emerged as this seasons undeserving winners and collectively as its <i>least valuable player</i>.
If Terror had offered to reschedule the match in light of Exigent's quite patent connection difficulties or played on another server, they would have kept their dignity. Whoever played a part in taking the easy win should seriously re-evaluate their actions, and whether they are fit to play in competition of any kind.
---
A sad day for Competitive NS (and it has nothing to do with the Dev Team, nice one <i>gentleman</i>)... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> +1 Brilliant Posting
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jun 28 2005, 02:17 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jun 28 2005, 02:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yay, blame the other team for your own problems! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So you expect exi to swallow the medicine and either:
a. forfeit 1 round (a round they ended up unofficially winning)
or
b. forfeit the match?
I don't think so. Seems to me that terror accepted they couldn't beat exi, so they relied on dodgy rules, instead of their skill, to get a victory.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
meh.
i really dont care and i certainly dont want to hear anymroe of your **** drama, all i (and the rest of the flipping scene) want is a proper delta finals with 4 rounds minimum and no ****.
but i suppose that wont happen anymore, not in season 6 or 7.
also to add: terror (hopefully) nor exigent definitely arent happy about the outcome, and i dont think cal admins are either. altho hsu's stupid jokes(?) about "oh at least we'll have another team in the s7 finals" could be taken a bit less lightly by someone than by me.
<!--QuoteBegin-TOmekki+Jun 28 2005, 07:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TOmekki @ Jun 28 2005, 07:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
meh.
i really dont care and i certainly dont want to hear anymroe of your **** drama, all i (and the rest of the flipping scene) want is a proper delta finals with 4 rounds minimum and no ****.
but i suppose that wont happen anymore, not in season 6 or 7.
also to add: terror (hopefully) nor exigent definitely arent happy about the outcome, and i dont think cal admins are either. altho hsu's stupid jokes(?) about "oh at least we'll have another team in the s7 finals" could be taken a bit less lightly by someone than by me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It SHOULD happen, and we are still willing to play, and we will remain so until this match gets played and people get a real game to watch!
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBen+Jun 27 2005, 06:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Jun 27 2005, 06:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What I don't get is how the admins allowed this to happen, if for no other reason other than to not waste the time of 300 people that match should of been played and both teams should of bent over backwards to see it happen, be it reschedule, changing servers etc etc. I'm pretty sure bending the rules just a tiny bit is worth it so that the delta season final isn't a god damn forfeit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> this is kind of the beginning and end of the truth.
<!--QuoteBegin-BulletInTehHead+Jun 27 2005, 07:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BulletInTehHead @ Jun 27 2005, 07:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-GoDlol+Jun 27 2005, 04:34 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GoDlol @ Jun 27 2005, 04:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if someone is hockey gets injured they are out of the game, exi had 3-4 injured players and had to keep playing. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Short of a concussion, injured players would keep playing unless they enjoyed being crybabies to which the rest of the team would make fun of them, or so my 10 years as a goalie showed me. S**t happens, but you put up with it and give it your all. That's called sportsmanship. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> consider an injury or handicap in ns something like a wrist injury or permanent high ping.
you know that hockey is a fast game, just like ns. what would happen if out of the 5 guys, 3 and the goalie would stop moving and doing anything for 5-10 seconds every minute? even if you were a good sport its impossible to expect your team to play in those conditions, not to mention fight for the victory.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ever heard of a delay of the Stanley Cup finals because a player sprained his ankle?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the stanley cup, and even though hockey has lost its interest within people its still a major worldwide sport. this is ns, a third-party mod for hl. theres not even money involved.
and to answer your question: no i havent, but then ive never seen a team that has over half of its players suffer from the forementioned symptoms play in a game of hockey.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jun 28 2005, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jun 28 2005, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for Terror, it pains me to see such unsportsmanlike behaviour from a team that's at the top of their game and should be setting an example to other aspiring "cyberathletes". Again from the information in this thread, their choice to completely screw over the other team (ftw?) is an appalling -nay disgraceful- display of dishonesty and leaves me with no doubt in my mind that they have emerged as this seasons undeserving winners and collectively as its <i>least valuable player</i>. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If the shoe was on the other foot, Exigent would not give Terror an ounce of slack. They might say they would, but only since it makes them look better now...
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Jun 28 2005, 08:08 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Jun 28 2005, 08:08 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Crispy+Jun 28 2005, 11:25 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crispy @ Jun 28 2005, 11:25 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> As for Terror, it pains me to see such unsportsmanlike behaviour from a team that's at the top of their game and should be setting an example to other aspiring "cyberathletes". Again from the information in this thread, their choice to completely screw over the other team (ftw?) is an appalling -nay disgraceful- display of dishonesty and leaves me with no doubt in my mind that they have emerged as this seasons undeserving winners and collectively as its <i>least valuable player</i>. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If the shoe was on the other foot, Exigent would not give Terror an ounce of slack. They might say they would, but only since it makes them look better now... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We all wanted to play the match. If it was the other way around, we sure as hell wouldn't agree to a forfeit <b>win</b>, either (we'd take the reschedule). We were all really looking towards playing this match.
Reschedule kthx. Terror should want to prove they're the champions, exigent want to defend their title. Why the **** is there even a discussion about this.
<!--QuoteBegin-MrBen+Jun 28 2005, 08:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrBen @ Jun 28 2005, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Reschedule kthx. Terror should want to prove they're the champions, exigent want to defend their title. Why the **** is there even a discussion about this. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It might have something to do with the league being run by "the best thing to ever happen to cal ns".
***** DISCLAIMER: THIS IS NOT A FLAME, IF THE ADMINS OF THIS FORUM ALLOW MEMBERS TO POST AFTER THIS AND ALLOW THIS TOPIC TO BECOME LOCKED AS ALWAYS, YOU WILL BE DOING A DISSERVICE TO THIS FORUMS MEMBERS. ZUNNI PLEASE DO NOT ALLOW THIS THREAD TO BECOME A DUMPSTER *****
After reading through this thread I was very pleased to see a lack of anti-Exigent debauchery which was expected. It is very comforting to see that some individuals understand our situation and respect the decision we were quite frankly forced to make. Hopefully I can provide somewhat non-biased breakdown of the events which took place on match night. In my opinion we had three options: A: Insane B: Ludicrous C: lol?
We decided as a team, that "lol?" was obviously the best choice!
On a more serious note, forfeiting the match was the only choice we were left with that would allow us to retain any bit of dignity we had left. I will try to highlight the reasons we decided to forfeit and shed some light on behind the scenes details.
The underlying issue that I feel some people are failing to grasp is simply the sheer lack of morals and maturity in this entire situation, from all parties. During the match, I was practically COUNTING on CAL-ns|Hsu(game head) to intervene and postpone the match until the ping issues settled down. After that failed, I was counting on our fellow competing team, Terror, to allow us to reschedule the match, when they then stated that this was not their decision. It was completely out of their hands. Keep in mind that during this time of uncertainty, Hsu was continuously joining the Alien team (Terror) and speaking with them in private. Not once did he join the Marine team to speak with us. Furthermore, Hsu was not speaking to any of the Exigent members in order to shed some light on the situation; instead, he was relaying messages through the CAL shoutcast, through Amplifier (one of the broadcasters). Where is CAL|Brad when you need him? Quite possibly the most biased admin of all time could have been the man with the composure and maturity to solve this situation, unless Pandas was playing things obviously would have gone the same way in Panda's favor <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Session Start: Mon Jun 27 17:31:48 2005 Session Ident: CAL-ns|Joshua Session Ident: CAL-ns|Joshua (~lynxij@c-24-126-241-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [17:31] <CAL-ns|Joshua> You know that it was terror that refused to reschedule right [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> it doesn't matter [17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> somehow everyone got the impression that CAL said you guys couldnt resched [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> that admins should have done something [17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> it would be **** to force a team to resched [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> no, it wouldn't [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> it would be **** in the season [17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> btw [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> not for the flipping finals [17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> what terror didnt tell you [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> when one team has 900 ping [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> there is a pretty big difference [17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> Terror told us that they couldn't reschedule [17:33] <[exi|s]-Taylor> because CAL wouldn't let them
Out of your hands, huh guys? The bottom line here is that the two teams playing hold all of the decision making power, regardless of what the admins/league may or may not think. If both teams agree to reschedule, then what the hell are the admins going to do, forfeit both teams? Telling us that you "don't have the authority" to make a decision like this is a slap in the face, especially after all these years of playing together. Other slaps in the face include multiple prank calls to my personal cell phone after the match in the early AM from Terror members and fans stating that Exigent makes a great second place finisher, obviously you guys won a hard earned championship title because you certainly act like it! The registration of #exigent-ns and registration of the team: "Exigent" on the CAL-ns website after our departure and refusal of CAL admins to remove this team because they are not "violating any rules." I completely agree with Crispy, why not just replace all of them with robots, or just make the whole CAL system automated? There is no need for humans... NSArmslab's abrupt drop our sponsorship after this event and giving us 4 days to clean house from the Clan FTP, an organization we have always appreciated and worked with... apparently they don't support "quitters." You now have one amazing poster team that will represent you to the fullest... best of luck!
The Hockey Analogy was terrible. Let me paint you a much clearer picture of what transpired.
Imagine the Superbowl is being played while a giant storm cloud follows team "A" hovering overhead showering them with hail and torrential downpour. Team "A" cannot control this cloud; it is obviously hindering their ability to play at a professional level. The game officials and referees decide that team "A" MUST play on and finish the game or they will forfeit. Should they choose, team "A" may switch to a new field (where this storm cloud will continue to follow them) and start the second half. Oh, by the way, team "B" gets 4 free touchdowns just to make things a bit more even. Team "B" is given the option to allow team "A" some down time for this cloud to evaporate, but why in the hell would they do this? The other players are slipping and sliding all over the place, they have this game in the bag. After delay of game the officials call the match! The Superbowl has been won by forfeit!
Yeah right....
This event really helped highlight some pretty major issues that hopefully future teams will be able to tackle. I wouldn't count on them being resolved however, and we don't plan on fighting anymore. Exigent is done with NS up until the point that we are allowed to have our rightful chance to play this finals match, win or lose. To be frank, after what you pulled your chances of winning a makeup are slim to none :/
I guess I dont understand what it is you guys want. Pain_User says he wants to play the game again, but then says "To be frank, after what you pulled your chances of winning a makeup are slim to none" Seems like a contradiction to me.
People are also throwing the "poor sportmanship" all over Terror's face - but is Exigent really better? They lose one because of the rules - so they quit CAL and pretty much hold CAL 'hostage' (if you will) saying they will not rejoin unless they get to play their match again. Yeah, there's some top notch sportsmanship for you.
I think a show of good sportsmanship is to just realize that yes, the rules dicked you over (it happens to almost every competitve clan out there - the only difference is most clans don't go crying and leaving the league), but there will be more seasons and more chances to play against Terror.
I am sorry but you obviously either haven't read any of the facts presented, or you just created your own fictional situation. First of all this has nothing to do with CAL as a whole, it is specifically CAL-ns. Second of all, we are not "holding the league hostage." You don't have the right to say a word about our sportsmanship because nothing we have done has been in the wrong. Quite frankly you can't speak on the issue until you see us presented with the exact same position Terror was put in, and I have absolutely no doubt what our decision would be. We would play the match and we would play to win. We would reschedule it for a day, week, month, whatever it took. Anything but a forfeit win. But if wanting to play an actual finals match is poor sportsmanship, by your logic Terror should have had to forfeit because they had exceptional ping!
<!--QuoteBegin-Pain User+Jun 28 2005, 02:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pain User @ Jun 28 2005, 02:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> by your logic Terror should have had to forfeit because they had exceptional ping! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> uhh.. no? My "logic" is that yes - you guys did get screwed - no one is saying that isn't true - but the decision on the match has been made. I would be really **** if it was me in your shoes as well, but I would not quit the league.
You guys say you didn't do anything wrong - that is true, but Terror didn't do anything wrong either. Also, you didn't reply to my:
"I guess I dont understand what it is you guys want. Pain_User says he wants to play the game again, but then says "To be frank, after what you pulled your chances of winning a makeup are slim to none" Seems like a contradiction to me. "
Who do you mean in "what you pulled" are you referring to CAL? It seems like that to me - and therefor that is what is confusing me.
Terror didn't do anything wrong, true, they also didn't do anything right. Their actions were perfectly legal by the CAL rules as far as i know, but they appear to be the actions of jerks. ALL they had to say is we'll reschedule and that was that. What's Hsu going to do? Double forfeit? I wonder how long he'd still be league admin if that happened.
<!--QuoteBegin-SentrySteve+Jun 28 2005, 09:39 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SentrySteve @ Jun 28 2005, 09:39 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys say you didn't do anything wrong - that is true, but Terror didn't do anything wrong either. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You could say that technically they didn't do anything wrong, of course, realistically, they did something wrong when they wouldn't let us play on a fair server for the last 3 halves, with their 1-0 advantadge being kept. <b>They wanted either a free round, or to play again on the laggy (for us) server.</b> In my opinion that's not very sportsmanlike.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You guys say you didn't do anything wrong - that is true, but Terror didn't do anything wrong either. Also, you didn't reply to my:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my eyes, taking the forfeit win in the first place is flatout WRONG. Also, stating that they had no control over the situation was also WRONG. Not to mention the flaming and aftermath of the match, which I also consider to be in the WRONG. Failure to exhibit any form of sportsmanship whatsoever would be something I consider to be WRONG. So I guess it depends on who you are asking as far as whether or not Terror did anything wrong. I guess you just have different morals in life.
The difference between each team's average ping within the agreed upon server can be no greater than 100 ms. Pings must be confirmed in the server, not through pinging tools such as GameSpy or HLSW. Both teams should check their pings in the opposing teams server to verify they are playable. Teams should also check playability. This means no excessive packet loss, choke, or ping spikes. <u>If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.</u> This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced. When one team deems a server to be unplayable, that team must use the same number of players, as well as the exact same players, that were within the server in question once an alternate server is chosen. The ping rule can, and should, be used if it is desired by at least one of the competing teams. If both teams agree, this rule can be waived. This rule does not apply if either team does not reside in North America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't have been a reschedule to move to LoC's server, I don't get why that would have caused exi to have forfeited the half.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pain User+Jun 28 2005, 02:43 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pain User @ Jun 28 2005, 02:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You guys say you didn't do anything wrong - that is true, but Terror didn't do anything wrong either. Also, you didn't reply to my:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In my eyes, taking the forfeit win in the first place is flatout WRONG. Also, stating that they had no control over the situation was also WRONG. Not to mention the flaming and aftermath of the match, which I also consider to be in the WRONG. Failure to exhibit any form of sportsmanship whatsoever would be something I consider to be WRONG. So I guess it depends on who you are asking as far as whether or not Terror did anything wrong. I guess you just have different morals in life. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> thats awesome Jmms, too bad the CAL rules are not made of your opinions. Going by the rules Terror did nothing wrong. MrBen is right when he says they didn't do anything right - but if they dont want to waste another night on this crap then no one is going to make them. As I've said - you guys got screwed - we all know it - but what is it you want? Pain_User contradicts himself and none of you make any real points other than "let us play or we dont rejoin CAL" which seems like crap sportsmanship to me.
Also, i just clicked the link to the Exigent website and it still says you're sponspored by NS Arms Lab. Might wanna get rid of that.
Comments
Isn't that what you guys did anyway? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but we decided to forfeit the entire thing because of how badly the situation was handled, instead of playing under total BS conditions on veil...
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Yay, blame the other team for your own problems!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think I was blaming them for our problems, I was blaming them for not letting us play a fair game. Of course, strawman arguments are always fun aren't they Firewater?
<a href='http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html' target='_blank'>http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html</a>
#FINDNSSCRIM LETS SEE IF WE CAN GET 300 SPECS AGAIN
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
We won in first round *** and lost to terror in the semis. The only thing special about our team is you and isamil.
In my opinion <b>common sense and decency</b> got robbed on this occasion.
Basing my information on what has appeared in this thread, which hasn't been disputed by the parties concerned: the CAL representatives responsible for their textbook antics should be replaced by robots (who would do exactly the same thing with less effort) or someone with half a braincell knocking about in their hollow skull, because I'm sure that the latter would have been able to see that postponing the match or changing servers were the only viable choices in that situation. If CAL want to regain the slightest shred of dignity they should listen carefully when I say "An apology is definitely in order".
As for Terror, it pains me to see such unsportsmanlike behaviour from a team that's at the top of their game and should be setting an example to other aspiring "cyberathletes". Again from the information in this thread, their choice to completely screw over the other team (ftw?) is an appalling -nay disgraceful- display of dishonesty and leaves me with no doubt in my mind that they have emerged as this seasons undeserving winners and collectively as its <i>least valuable player</i>.
If Terror had offered to reschedule the match in light of Exigent's quite patent connection difficulties or played on another server, they would have kept their dignity. Whoever played a part in taking the easy win should seriously re-evaluate their actions, and whether they are fit to play in competition of any kind.
---
A sad day for Competitive NS (and it has nothing to do with the Dev Team, nice one <i>gentleman</i>)...
In my opinion <b>common sense and decency</b> got robbed on this occasion.
Basing my information on what has appeared in this thread, which hasn't been disputed by the parties concerned: the CAL representatives responsible for their textbook antics should be replaced by robots (who would do exactly the same thing with less effort) or someone with half a braincell knocking about in their hollow skull, because I'm sure that the latter would have been able to see that postponing the match or changing servers were the only viable choices in that situation. If CAL want to regain the slightest shred of dignity they should listen carefully when I say "An apology is definitely in order".
As for Terror, it pains me to see such unsportsmanlike behaviour from a team that's at the top of their game and should be setting an example to other aspiring "cyberathletes". Again from the information in this thread, their choice to completely screw over the other team (ftw?) is an appalling -nay disgraceful- display of dishonesty and leaves me with no doubt in my mind that they have emerged as this seasons undeserving winners and collectively as its <i>least valuable player</i>.
If Terror had offered to reschedule the match in light of Exigent's quite patent connection difficulties or played on another server, they would have kept their dignity. Whoever played a part in taking the easy win should seriously re-evaluate their actions, and whether they are fit to play in competition of any kind.
---
A sad day for Competitive NS (and it has nothing to do with the Dev Team, nice one <i>gentleman</i>)... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
+1 Brilliant Posting
So you expect exi to swallow the medicine and either:
a. forfeit 1 round (a round they ended up unofficially winning)
or
b. forfeit the match?
I don't think so. Seems to me that terror accepted they couldn't beat exi, so they relied on dodgy rules, instead of their skill, to get a victory.
More sportsmanship, kthx.
meh.
i really dont care and i certainly dont want to hear anymroe of your **** drama, all i (and the rest of the flipping scene) want is a proper delta finals with 4 rounds minimum and no ****.
but i suppose that wont happen anymore, not in season 6 or 7.
also to add: terror (hopefully) nor exigent definitely arent happy about the outcome, and i dont think cal admins are either. altho hsu's stupid jokes(?) about "oh at least we'll have another team in the s7 finals" could be taken a bit less lightly by someone than by me.
meh.
i really dont care and i certainly dont want to hear anymroe of your **** drama, all i (and the rest of the flipping scene) want is a proper delta finals with 4 rounds minimum and no ****.
but i suppose that wont happen anymore, not in season 6 or 7.
also to add: terror (hopefully) nor exigent definitely arent happy about the outcome, and i dont think cal admins are either. altho hsu's stupid jokes(?) about "oh at least we'll have another team in the s7 finals" could be taken a bit less lightly by someone than by me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It SHOULD happen, and we are still willing to play, and we will remain so until this match gets played and people get a real game to watch!
this is kind of the beginning and end of the truth.
reschedule the match.
Short of a concussion, injured players would keep playing unless they enjoyed being crybabies to which the rest of the team would make fun of them, or so my 10 years as a goalie showed me. S**t happens, but you put up with it and give it your all. That's called sportsmanship. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
consider an injury or handicap in ns something like a wrist injury or permanent high ping.
you know that hockey is a fast game, just like ns. what would happen if out of the 5 guys, 3 and the goalie would stop moving and doing anything for 5-10 seconds every minute? even if you were a good sport its impossible to expect your team to play in those conditions, not to mention fight for the victory.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Ever heard of a delay of the Stanley Cup finals because a player sprained his ankle?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats the stanley cup, and even though hockey has lost its interest within people its still a major worldwide sport. this is ns, a third-party mod for hl. theres not even money involved.
and to answer your question: no i havent, but then ive never seen a team that has over half of its players suffer from the forementioned symptoms play in a game of hockey.
If the shoe was on the other foot, Exigent would not give Terror an ounce of slack. They might say they would, but only since it makes them look better now...
If the shoe was on the other foot, Exigent would not give Terror an ounce of slack. They might say they would, but only since it makes them look better now... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We all wanted to play the match. If it was the other way around, we sure as hell wouldn't agree to a forfeit <b>win</b>, either (we'd take the reschedule). We were all really looking towards playing this match.
It might have something to do with the league being run by "the best thing to ever happen to cal ns".
After reading through this thread I was very pleased to see a lack of anti-Exigent debauchery which was expected. It is very comforting to see that some individuals understand our situation and respect the decision we were quite frankly forced to make. Hopefully I can provide somewhat non-biased breakdown of the events which took place on match night. In my opinion we had three options:
A: Insane
B: Ludicrous
C: lol?
We decided as a team, that "lol?" was obviously the best choice!
On a more serious note, forfeiting the match was the only choice we were left with that would allow us to retain any bit of dignity we had left. I will try to highlight the reasons we decided to forfeit and shed some light on behind the scenes details.
The underlying issue that I feel some people are failing to grasp is simply the sheer lack of morals and maturity in this entire situation, from all parties. During the match, I was practically COUNTING on CAL-ns|Hsu(game head) to intervene and postpone the match until the ping issues settled down. After that failed, I was counting on our fellow competing team, Terror, to allow us to reschedule the match, when they then stated that this was not their decision. It was completely out of their hands. Keep in mind that during this time of uncertainty, Hsu was continuously joining the Alien team (Terror) and speaking with them in private. Not once did he join the Marine team to speak with us. Furthermore, Hsu was not speaking to any of the Exigent members in order to shed some light on the situation; instead, he was relaying messages through the CAL shoutcast, through Amplifier (one of the broadcasters). Where is CAL|Brad when you need him? Quite possibly the most biased admin of all time could have been the man with the composure and maturity to solve this situation, unless Pandas was playing things obviously would have gone the same way in Panda's favor <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
Session Start: Mon Jun 27 17:31:48 2005
Session Ident: CAL-ns|Joshua
Session Ident: CAL-ns|Joshua (~lynxij@c-24-126-241-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
[17:31] <CAL-ns|Joshua> You know that it was terror that refused to reschedule right
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> it doesn't matter
[17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> somehow everyone got the impression that CAL said you guys couldnt resched
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> that admins should have done something
[17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> it would be **** to force a team to resched
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> no, it wouldn't
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> it would be **** in the season
[17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> btw
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> not for the flipping finals
[17:32] <CAL-ns|Joshua> what terror didnt tell you
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> when one team has 900 ping
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> there is a pretty big difference
[17:32] <[exi|s]-Taylor> Terror told us that they couldn't reschedule
[17:33] <[exi|s]-Taylor> because CAL wouldn't let them
Out of your hands, huh guys? The bottom line here is that the two teams playing hold all of the decision making power, regardless of what the admins/league may or may not think. If both teams agree to reschedule, then what the hell are the admins going to do, forfeit both teams? Telling us that you "don't have the authority" to make a decision like this is a slap in the face, especially after all these years of playing together. Other slaps in the face include multiple prank calls to my personal cell phone after the match in the early AM from Terror members and fans stating that Exigent makes a great second place finisher, obviously you guys won a hard earned championship title because you certainly act like it! The registration of #exigent-ns and registration of the team: "Exigent" on the CAL-ns website after our departure and refusal of CAL admins to remove this team because they are not "violating any rules." I completely agree with Crispy, why not just replace all of them with robots, or just make the whole CAL system automated? There is no need for humans... NSArmslab's abrupt drop our sponsorship after this event and giving us 4 days to clean house from the Clan FTP, an organization we have always appreciated and worked with... apparently they don't support "quitters." You now have one amazing poster team that will represent you to the fullest... best of luck!
The Hockey Analogy was terrible. Let me paint you a much clearer picture of what transpired.
Imagine the Superbowl is being played while a giant storm cloud follows team "A" hovering overhead showering them with hail and torrential downpour. Team "A" cannot control this cloud; it is obviously hindering their ability to play at a professional level. The game officials and referees decide that team "A" MUST play on and finish the game or they will forfeit. Should they choose, team "A" may switch to a new field (where this storm cloud will continue to follow them) and start the second half. Oh, by the way, team "B" gets 4 free touchdowns just to make things a bit more even. Team "B" is given the option to allow team "A" some down time for this cloud to evaporate, but why in the hell would they do this? The other players are slipping and sliding all over the place, they have this game in the bag. After delay of game the officials call the match! The Superbowl has been won by forfeit!
Yeah right....
This event really helped highlight some pretty major issues that hopefully future teams will be able to tackle. I wouldn't count on them being resolved however, and we don't plan on fighting anymore. Exigent is done with NS up until the point that we are allowed to have our rightful chance to play this finals match, win or lose. To be frank, after what you pulled your chances of winning a makeup are slim to none :/
*Edited for maximum spin doctorage
People are also throwing the "poor sportmanship" all over Terror's face - but is Exigent really better? They lose one because of the rules - so they quit CAL and pretty much hold CAL 'hostage' (if you will) saying they will not rejoin unless they get to play their match again. Yeah, there's some top notch sportsmanship for you.
I think a show of good sportsmanship is to just realize that yes, the rules dicked you over (it happens to almost every competitve clan out there - the only difference is most clans don't go crying and leaving the league), but there will be more seasons and more chances to play against Terror.
uhh.. no? My "logic" is that yes - you guys did get screwed - no one is saying that isn't true - but the decision on the match has been made. I would be really **** if it was me in your shoes as well, but I would not quit the league.
You guys say you didn't do anything wrong - that is true, but Terror didn't do anything wrong either. Also, you didn't reply to my:
"I guess I dont understand what it is you guys want. Pain_User says he wants to play the game again, but then says "To be frank, after what you pulled your chances of winning a makeup are slim to none" Seems like a contradiction to me. "
Who do you mean in "what you pulled" are you referring to CAL? It seems like that to me - and therefor that is what is confusing me.
You could say that technically they didn't do anything wrong, of course, realistically, they did something wrong when they wouldn't let us play on a fair server for the last 3 halves, with their 1-0 advantadge being kept. <b>They wanted either a free round, or to play again on the laggy (for us) server.</b> In my opinion that's not very sportsmanlike.
In my eyes, taking the forfeit win in the first place is flatout WRONG. Also, stating that they had no control over the situation was also WRONG. Not to mention the flaming and aftermath of the match, which I also consider to be in the WRONG. Failure to exhibit any form of sportsmanship whatsoever would be something I consider to be WRONG. So I guess it depends on who you are asking as far as whether or not Terror did anything wrong. I guess you just have different morals in life.
The difference between each team's average ping within the agreed upon server can be no greater than 100 ms. Pings must be confirmed in the server, not through pinging tools such as GameSpy or HLSW. Both teams should check their pings in the opposing teams server to verify they are playable. Teams should also check playability. This means no excessive packet loss, choke, or ping spikes. <u>If a server is unsuitable for match play, a replacement must be found. If an objection is made prior to the half commencing and the server is deemed unplayable by a CAL admin, then a new server must be found.</u> This rule cannot be invoked after play has commenced. When one team deems a server to be unplayable, that team must use the same number of players, as well as the exact same players, that were within the server in question once an alternate server is chosen. The ping rule can, and should, be used if it is desired by at least one of the competing teams. If both teams agree, this rule can be waived. This rule does not apply if either team does not reside in North America.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It wouldn't have been a reschedule to move to LoC's server, I don't get why that would have caused exi to have forfeited the half.
In my eyes, taking the forfeit win in the first place is flatout WRONG. Also, stating that they had no control over the situation was also WRONG. Not to mention the flaming and aftermath of the match, which I also consider to be in the WRONG. Failure to exhibit any form of sportsmanship whatsoever would be something I consider to be WRONG. So I guess it depends on who you are asking as far as whether or not Terror did anything wrong. I guess you just have different morals in life. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats awesome Jmms, too bad the CAL rules are not made of your opinions. Going by the rules Terror did nothing wrong. MrBen is right when he says they didn't do anything right - but if they dont want to waste another night on this crap then no one is going to make them. As I've said - you guys got screwed - we all know it - but what is it you want? Pain_User contradicts himself and none of you make any real points other than "let us play or we dont rejoin CAL" which seems like crap sportsmanship to me.
Also, i just clicked the link to the Exigent website and it still says you're sponspored by NS Arms Lab. Might wanna get rid of that.