Concept Map: "retrieval"

Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
edited June 2005 in Mapping Forum
a small experiment
some time ago I thought about working out an alternate gameplay concept to be used within ns. there are not many teamspecific entities but I figured out how to achieve my goal with as less work as possible.

this concept rested on my hdd some time and I never had time to work on it anymore because I spend most of my time working on ns_source. after "finishing" (beta 34 so is not really a final) there was some time left to work on another project.

3 days ago I read through the textures thread and found a nice wad created by "the Duke". I also took some textures from "soylent green"´s wad and played around with them.

and it seemed like I had figured out how to do some ok looking areas without spending weeks. thats very important because I really dont know if this map work like I exspect it to, so I dont want to "waste" time till I know it for shure.

the pictures bellow were taken after the first compile. the lighting has to be tweaked as well as the shape of the neons.
the style is little bit more "clean" than most of the custommaps out there. thats because Im referring to maps created for "alien trilogy" (PS 1), which I really liked because of their atmosphere. there wasnt any fancy architecture, just the feeling that something is watching you while walking through empty corridors...

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Im not shure about if it should be an ns map or an co map. both modes have some
advantages. atm Im shure I would do best as co map, although I dont like the mode.
but I will play completely different in the end so it shouldnt matter.

at the end you "just" have to fight through several corridors and fulfill you goal. WHAT you will have to do is still up to the mapper tounge.gif

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Comments

  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Posts: 3,225
    Care to elaborate (via PM if neccessary). I too, drafted a concept map with a fairly basic premise that I think I could get working. I'm wondering if your's is similar in any way, or if you know something that I should tounge.gif

    My concept would have a timer linked to an 'event'. The 'event' will mean certain doom to the Aliens, and a Marine win. The timer means the Marines have a certain amount of time to hold out against the Aliens before this event is triggered.

    The 'event' can be stopped relatively easily by the Aliens within the last few seconds of the timer -returning the gameplay to normal NS however Aliens will probably be defeated.

    The Marines can reach a weldable deep in Alien territory which will disable the timer -returning the gameplay to normal NS mode, which due to the res placement will mean an easy win for Marines.

    In short, the Aliens must strike fast and hold their territory. It will be difficult for the Marines to push up and to hold positions. If Marines hold out long enough and cap extra res nodes, they will win the game.

    You could call it an Alien training map; training you in quick responses and cooperation.

    ---

    Sorry to hog your thread Gravman, but I wanted to explain it to see if what you're planning is similar.
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
    edited June 2005
    does belong here smile-fix.gif

    but no, my concept is much more simple... and much more reliable under different circumstances wink-fix.gif

    ok, lets summarize:
    user posted image

    how the gameplay (should) work:
    - marines spawn at location 1 or 2. the separated locations are meant to make it harder to spawncamp the marine team. to bring this effect even further you will spawn inside of a closed elevator. you will have to push a button to open the doors. this is also useful to regroup and strike back a possible alien assault.

    - the two corridors havent got any vent exits. aliens arent supposed to do anything besides stopping marines on their "own" territory.

    - first room: 2 vent exits and 2 action spots. to make the game little bit comfortable there will be one pot to weld open and another one where you just have to press a button. the action spots are meant to be obstacleswhere the marines have to pass in different ways. however, there is no EASY path.

    - you will have to decide where to go next at each junction, you will allways have four choices:
    1. straight ahead (weldable spot or "the hard route")
    2. left /right (button, the "easy way" but the route is allways longer)
    3. stay and wait for reinforcements (but I guess thats not much of a good choice)
    4. fall back to the last room, where you will be able to defend yourself

    - once you have managed to reach the "critical area", ergo you have managed to pass the hive area (which cant be accessed by marines) you will have to trigger a single event, resulting in a event killing the hive.

    Im not yet shure, what exactly the marinescould do. maybe they activate some kind of emergency "put down" system that kills the hive by injecting an overdose. this would fit te background perfectly (another "biological research lab" theme).

    another possibility would be to launch a malfunctioning rocket that safes all the scientific personal.

    "run like hell": at least one marines has to escape to win the match.

    -

    the result would be a game where marines have to move in groups, communicate and mislead the other team. the aliens would have to block marines movement, ambush, separate enemy troops and prevent the marines from reaching the "critcal area".

    however, there is no time trigger, so the map wouldnt intersect with the roundtimer of the server. and you can easily fix problems by raising or lowering the timer.

    the ns version would be much more complicated. and I dont want to spent too much time fixing ns-mode specific errors/probs to be honest sad-fix.gif

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  • LegionnairedLegionnaired Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-04-30 Member: 552Posts: 3,260
    Just make there a big red button that turns on a trigger_hurt 50000 on the hive.
    In the end, science does not provide us the answers most of us require.[...]To the question, "How did it all begin?", science answers, "Probably by accident." To the question "How will it end?" science answers, "Probably by accident." To many people, the accidental life is not worth living.
  • KardoffelKardoffel Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-04-03 Member: 27711Posts: 157
    I see Grav this is the thing we talked about just quite a while back been some time. I'm not anymore into Mapping, but i will get into it if you want me to help. My irc is like kinda **** up but ill see if get it work the days then we could talk.
    user posted image
    user posted image mauriceee
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
    QUOTE (Kardoffel @ Jun 19 2005, 02:13 PM)
    I see Grav this is the thing we talked about just quite a while back been some time. I'm not anymore into Mapping, but i will get into it if you want me to help. My irc is like kinda **** up but ill see if get it work the days then we could talk.

    catch me on irc channel #ngg and hope that Im present smile-fix.gif

    there is a big problem atm, I discovered my system to be completely infected by several viruses. thats why I will have took it offline yesterday. I hope all my important files can be rescued. Im glad I saved the last verison of my map ns_source a) on disc and b) on my webspace... and that I have another machine at home which can be used instead. but since its an old PII 333Mhz there is no chance for mapping. at least there is a chance to use a webbrowser.

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  • mrinsanemrinsane Members Join Date: 2004-06-21 Member: 29448Posts: 66
    i am a mapper myself i am in the ngg channel if anyone wants to talk about maps and stuff
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Posts: 6,132
    Alot of combat servers have a time limit of 20 minutes. This could take well above that time limit, just something to think about.
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Posts: 3,225
    Good point^

    If you're stopping Marines from entering the Hive then one might assume that Oni can't leave/enter either. Would this be imbalancing? I would assume, though, that you're using a barrier that lets only team1 (Aliens?) through, or something. In any case the Oni won't be able to use the vent system, so how are you going to structure the map towards the later sections where the Marines will have the upgrades to screw the Fades over.

    Either make the last section super difficult, or make the earlier sections more difficult to slow down the Marine upgrades. I don't see quite how you can do the latter of the two proposed options if you have Aliens coming from one direction (the vent exits) as Marines will just camp them out for XP. You'll need to have vents leading to multiple exits in front/behind/to the side of the 'rines to keep them on their toes.

    ---

    Yeah, Grav, your way is simpler but the welding could get a bit repetitive. What about shootable buttons and breakables ftw?
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    I like the concept, and the mapping for the most part. I think though that your first and last shots, the floor textures look way too busy. I'd put them in smaller patches surrounded by flatter stuff. Other than that, looks great. smile-fix.gif

    (I'd also make your flourescent lights yellow, but that's just me)
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
    edited June 2005
    uhuhuh! lot of replies ^^

    @ crispy: havent thought about that in detail. I might use the ns mode because it just doesnt cause this problems. but in the end it doesnt matter which modeI choose, you will have to get used to the gameplay that WILL BE DIFFERENT from most of the maps we have seen yet.
    thats why Im not going to spend hours on the design. more likely I will try to get it balanced.
    onos wont be much of a choice. that will work when I will be able to prevent marines from getting too much level in co.

    on the other hand lets think about the ns version:
    - marines wont get many upgrades because the building options has to be restricted
    - aliens would have 1-2 hives
    - dropping chambers and structures will be restricted in most of the important areas

    and there we have some other problems to care for smile-fix.gif

    I dont think it will be easy. I do in fact believe it will be rather difficult.

    keep in mind that I will "force" the marine players to achieve their goal. otherwise aliens will have some easy food.

    @ moultano: nicely said. because there isnt much to comment tounge.gif
    I dont like the floor texture myself. its not the easy way to stick to "unseen" textures. out of the ns textures I used four for this areas. the other ones are custom made.

    the neons will vary in color within different sections in the map. the style will be kinda repetative (I will use this standart corridors allover the map) so I will give the player little hints. but the "omg, I think I have crossed this hallway before" feeling may add to the panic atmosphere.

    Im sorry I cant show you more... because so little has been done smile-fix.gif

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  • mrinsanemrinsane Members Join Date: 2004-06-21 Member: 29448Posts: 66
    lt gravity if you want to talk about maps im in the ngg channel on gamesurge i like your ideas they sound great
  • KardoffelKardoffel Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-04-03 Member: 27711Posts: 157
    its quakenet
    user posted image
    user posted image mauriceee
  • GiGaBiTeGiGaBiTe Members Join Date: 2003-10-07 Member: 21489Posts: 1,119 Advanced user
    instead of killing the hive, you should do something like nerve gas like on rock2, that would be cool tounge.gif
    QUOTE (unknown)
    Admiral, why dont we just breach the hull after overriding the automatic hatchlocks closing procedure?

    Last time we did this an onos just put its fat **** inside the hole and lerks just farted a new athmosphere.
    It looked so gross that we decided to never ever do this again.


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  • NoArms_NoCookiesNoArms_NoCookies Members Join Date: 2005-01-10 Member: 34547Posts: 48
    yeah :o

    ... or maybe aliens builded their hive in a junk press nerd-fix.gif and marines just have to push that button ^^ or get to a terminal

    ... or they infested a Cargo bay, and Marines have to try to open the gates to space ^^

    I really! like that idea ^^ Go on biggrin-fix.gif

    Only thing i dislike is the idea of long corridors, all looking the same. And very small action spots.


    Well ... i think it would be very nice, if maps with this gamemode, would look ... more like real spacestations or spaceships tsa.gif. Rooms have to be placed reasonable, to fit a spaceship ... (Bride in Front ... Generators in center and Drive and Bays in the back part i.e.)

    There are so many possibilities for good "Action spots" ... emergency locked doors, Crates plugging a passage, a broken hull causing dekompression, security energy fields, ...
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
    QUOTE (NoArms NoCookies @ Jun 30 2005, 05:14 PM)
    Only thing i dislike is the idea of long corridors, all looking the same. And very small action spots.


    Well ... i think it would be very nice, if maps with this gamemode, would look ... more like real spacestations or spaceships tsa.gif. Rooms have to be placed reasonable, to fit a spaceship ... (Bride in Front ... Generators in center and Drive and Bays in the back part i.e.)

    thats all because I dont know if it works. I dont want to spent hours on creating some nice areas just to find out the concept wont work.

    Im not in spaceships too much. how much spaceships can possibly be infested in the "ns universe"? its kinda repetative and not too believeable in my eyes. although there are only few GOOD looking spaceship maps.

    but the idea for this map isnt new either. the idea of the biological warfare facility does exist back to the roots of ns I think biggrin-fix.gif

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  • NEX9NEX9 Members Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44299Posts: 1,642
    nice gravs, can we get some diff wads along hte same line, in every other place
    maybe a few usless doors, labeled and so on

    but wd and great concept, yeah go with a TNT weldable plunger at the end, to cripple the hive

    as for co or ns, go ns in my opinion, marons will jack this onto extra lvl plugs and be there all day
    Stop by see some of my latest works in maya, ill even evently host my WIP's and old old works.
    http://nex17.deviantart.com/
    search under digital art works
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Posts: 3,225
    NEX9, I think you're forgetting that Classic Game Mode is a lot more complicated and doesn't work as well for forcing gameplay structures in a map.

    Taking 50+ co_servers into consideration is giving them undeserved acknowledgement. I say if they wanna ruin the balance by playing an obscenely bastardised plugin, then they have no right to complain if a map seems unbalanced.
  • NEX9NEX9 Members Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44299Posts: 1,642
    this man has good rebuttles
    Stop by see some of my latest works in maya, ill even evently host my WIP's and old old works.
    http://nex17.deviantart.com/
    search under digital art works
  • Lt.RealnessLt.Realness Members Join Date: 2004-03-17 Member: 27379Posts: 740 Fully active user
    hi everyone!

    I'm back after I took a long break tho. well I discussed and developed this concept with Gravity 3 months ago. the different part of this concept have already been listed.
    Since I am Gravis personal soundmixer biggrin-fix.gif I really took part in getting new ideas for this concept so I don't think that this could be the final version of it.

    We are trying ourselves on something that nobody has done before, so don't blame us if you think the idea sucks or whatever (mainly blame gravi cos he's da mappa tounge.gif)
    85.236.98.56:27015 #yo-clan | www.yoclan.com [Classic Only]
  • NEX9NEX9 Members Join Date: 2005-03-08 Member: 44299Posts: 1,642
    cool adiable warnings of map progression, awsome ness all over the place


    puts his feet up
    Stop by see some of my latest works in maya, ill even evently host my WIP's and old old works.
    http://nex17.deviantart.com/
    search under digital art works
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
    "doing stuff that noone has done before" is what Im living for.

    and its kinda interesting how much you can achieve with so little possibilities. thats why hl1 mapping is more fun than for hl2 XD

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  • Lt.RealnessLt.Realness Members Join Date: 2004-03-17 Member: 27379Posts: 740 Fully active user
    hah you only say that because you are not familiar with the hl2 editor and you ain't able to work with it !!!

    just kiddn' tounge.gif

    bascially he is right! and I'll support him =)
    85.236.98.56:27015 #yo-clan | www.yoclan.com [Classic Only]
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