i dont hate grannys <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
they make us clothes at christmas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Half the things you see alot of scripters do with scripts they can't do without scripts.. which shows they need help to do these things... so performance boosting...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ever heard of these clans called Terror and Exigent? I ran across remiCs smurfing on a BS 1 server. He was pulling every trick in the book. Slow uniform hovering with jetpacks, beautiful glidejump and bunnyhopping, and exceedingly fast pistol shots.
He didn't seem any worse at all. I'd like for you to name what 'half of the things we can do with scripts we cant without'.
Let's see. I use a pscript and 3jump. I can shoot as fast without pscript, I just have to try a bit harder. Oh Em Gee, finger twitch skill should be so important in a strategic/tactical game.
3jump? I can bhop with mousewheel. I just prefer not to. You guys would have me always using +jump. No thanks.
But since Pro BS 1 people hardly ever know a thing about scripts and how the exploitative ones are banned anyway, I don't expect anything good to come out of this discussion.
Just know this: If you see a guy named something normal destroying your BS 1 server, even odds says it's some smurfing clanner having fun trashing you. Apparently, they DO have skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OMG, I have a automatic drive transmission car, I can drive without changing gears, but I can't drive a manual car without changing gears!!! I SCRIPT AT LIFE!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I stand by my word and i said i stopped with the arguement or is it too hard for you too read.... <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Now let the topic go back to how the thread starter wanted it <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Jun 6 2005, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Jun 6 2005, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I want to know what people look for and like about the servers they play on.
What things do you find appealing? What things do you hate? Do you like FF? Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? etc. etc.
Help me answer some of these questions if you can guys...
I'm sure this topic has come up before but searching didn't help me (or it's been so long ago, it didn't show up).
Just to let you know who I am/why I'm doing this: -I started and run the "Mr|Server(FF) - mrcommunity.ca" -I'm always looking to improve on how we run the community and feedback is important.
If you've visited the server before, your feedback is greatly appreciated (both positive or negative). If you've never played there before, it would be nice to know what you guys like about the servers you DO play on.
Thanks for helping, Boris <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> appealing? never heard that word. i think i know wt u mean: bots, extralevels and elec welding i hate like always: noob admins, clanservers, that different(always ****) loading music on different servers, MvM and gag FF: **** CD sucks, VAC Rocks i dont use scripts in ns rules that enforce no swearing: **** servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things: makes me hate that **** server
i dont really understand this, am i visited in your server? no
TheJim: I <b>am</b> talking about the "game world" as you put it. If you clicked the dictionary reference you'd see that there are actually many definitions of cheating, the only one that applies to games is "breaking rules." If scripts are known and allowed then in no circumstances could it be considered cheating. If CAL banned scripts, then using scripts in a CAL match would be cheating, yes, because you are breaking a rule. You cant just make up your own definitions for words...
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong.
The whole script issue is such a hot topic...Some people see it as cheating, and the others are defending against this with all sorts of comments (that to me actually argue in favour of why scripts DON'T need to be used).
But what I see the most out of all the defensive posts about scripts is: -All the things scripts do for you, can be done without them -They make things "easier", and it's "harder" without them to perform tasks like bunnyhopping.
Very poor arguements, if you ask me... You make it look like noone needs to script (so why do we need them?). You also enhance the arguement about cheating, because you keep stating it's "easier" to do such things with a script (I can see enemies easier when I have a wall-hack too).
Maybe this sidetracked debate on scripting can be split from this topic and continued on in an appropriate thread.
Thanks again to those who have been posting with regards to the original topic.
<!--QuoteBegin-Real PUA+Jun 9 2005, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Real PUA @ Jun 9 2005, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TheJim: I <b>am</b> talking about the "game world" as you put it. If you clicked the dictionary reference you'd see that there are actually many definitions of cheating, the only one that applies to games is "breaking rules." If scripts are known and allowed then in no circumstances could it be considered cheating. If CAL banned scripts, then using scripts in a CAL match would be cheating, yes, because you are breaking a rule. You cant just make up your own definitions for words...
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...
tell me what dictionary that used the american version?
If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done..... and by the way there are alot of words that can be linked to the word cheat but i wont bother saying them because you don't seem to know the meaning of "I have stooped" and you seem to want to continue an already ended for now arguement so its obvious that you wouldn't know what they mean...
But i will give another example for you...
Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...
Hmmm i just linked the game world directly to real world... those 2 match up so good that it is so eay to make a connection <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeh and caffiene doesn't improve transfer of oxygen into blood which i used in my example..... so you can't read properly either...
Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules you can link alot things that don't break the rules to cheating which is all i have been doing... and i got the best example in the world for this... THE ONOS
When you go Onos and have the charge ability and when you use it you can run poor helpless marines over provided u keep running into him long enough... but because of the bug in the game engine you can use the charge ability and e.g. change to the devour weapon and get devour kills by running them over when you haven't actually even used the devour weapon but because the Onos wants devour kills it does it this way as you can get 4 dvour kills in the time of 1 with it...
Now lets take a look at the impotant points there charge, devour and not using the devour weapon... If you devour someone without using the devour weapon it is not a legitimate devour kill because you never used the weapon... but because you wanted devour kills you did it the easiest way possible by using charge to help you accomplish this... now that can be linked to cheating regardless of wether its a bug in the game or not.
there you go linking to cheating without breaking the rules <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please just stop making me write the essays by giving answer that i can answer back to.. i personally cannot help myself and i can admit that... the unfortunate side to the arguement is that it is recking this poor guys thread... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Jun 7 2005, 06:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Jun 7 2005, 06:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Jun 6 2005, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Jun 6 2005, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ----BS = ON (we like to play VANILLA as much as possible and yes people can get around certain things, but we like to try to get them to play vanilla - it's the way we want the game to be played. So crying about this falls on deaf ears) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The game can't be played the way it is set up by default. NS's default config is equivalent to a CS config with no +moveforward, it is literally layed out that poorly.
Basicly scripting is one of two options. Option A is totally rebuild your config so the game is playable (mousewheel as +jump and/or +attack, fastswitch on, and a tighter weapon selection base) or script to make the default config work to do all those things for you with the same proper set of keys.
A good player's config will never be set up default, so if you intend to inforce vanillaism, just ban any good player and you are set. Scripting doesn't allow pretty much ANYTHING adventagious that cannot be done without scripts. I know, because I've done my recearch, and I still don't script.
Really the main thing BS1 does is chase skilled players away from your server. It's bad publicity and little else.
Do you prefer to attract noobie players with little or no comunity voice or play experiance as your regulars, or do you prefer to attract skilled players who will bring alot more to your table by playing there? because from a PR standpoint that is the choice you are making between BS1 and BS0. Realize that by putting BS1 on you are basicly freezing any scripter's config as soon as they join your server. They can not hotkey join a team, they cannot attack, they cannot jump, they have to rebind everything just to play a game there. Most of them just go somewhere else rather then fool around with it, and certainly don't decide to regular your server after that experiance. A big price to pay considering pretty much every american clanner scripts, and even the one's that don't probably won't regular your server if you chase away all thier buddies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What is interesting about the blockscripts debate is that blockscript servers actually make the pub player worse off than the competitive player.
This point was brought up in a discussion in the competitive forum. Many competitive NS players said that scripts didn't make them better players, but Puzl said that scripts made him a better player. Puzl is not a competitive player. Adj also argued that he played just as good without scripts, than with scripts, and for most scripters it takes a little time to adjust to get used to it.
So basically competitive players don't really get hurt on BS servers, and the pub players miss out on something that can make them better. This got me wondering that maybe BS servers hurt the pub regulars more than the competitive players. Because if scripts provide so much of an advantage, why competitive players on BS servers constantly dominate those who regular it?
BS just shoots pub players in the foot, people want to play with an adjusted config that is totally legal within the HL engine, but others need to see it as an exploit (even though Valve has said otherwise).
It seems scripts are another excuse for the owned to feel better about the lack of talent they have. Its not my fault I died, its the scripts!
I don't see why anyone would need +move or +attack in their scripts. Just block those 2... <b>that's it</b>. No more complaints about scripts from anyone - because 3jump is <b>legitemate</b>, no complaints there. No? Dev team? Hello? <b>Someone</b> tell me why this won't work?
a_civilianLikes seeing numbersJoin Date: 2003-01-08Member: 12041Members, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead
edited June 2005
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you truly wanted to stop, you would not have responded. And don't try to take the moral high ground here; I've seen more ad hominem attacks out of you than any other single person in this thread (and perhaps all of them combined).
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done.....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Customized binds make life easier, do they not? They also often allow the user to perform actions that he would have been unable to perform effectively with the default binds. Is a custom bind configuration then classified as a cheat?
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That is a circular argument, as you assume as a premise that scripts are not legitimate.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> But if you expand the definition of cheating to beyond simple rule-breaking, then to class scripting as cheating becomes no longer an argument for its illegitimacy. The term "legitimate" is itself defined as "being in compliance with the law".
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Jun 9 2005, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Jun 9 2005, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You make it look like noone needs to script (so why do we need them?). You also enhance the arguement about cheating, because you keep stating it's "easier" to do such things with a script (I can see enemies easier when I have a wall-hack too).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You might just as well ask why people need custom binds. They aren't truly needed, but a customized interface allows users to more easily and comfortably interact with the game. Yes, it can be easier to do something with a script. But likewise, it can also be easier to do something with customized binds than with the default scheme.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Real PUA+Jun 9 2005, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Real PUA @ Jun 9 2005, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TheJim: I <b>am</b> talking about the "game world" as you put it. If you clicked the dictionary reference you'd see that there are actually many definitions of cheating, the only one that applies to games is "breaking rules." If scripts are known and allowed then in no circumstances could it be considered cheating. If CAL banned scripts, then using scripts in a CAL match would be cheating, yes, because you are breaking a rule. You cant just make up your own definitions for words...
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...
tell me what dictionary that used the american version?
If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done..... and by the way there are alot of words that can be linked to the word cheat but i wont bother saying them because you don't seem to know the meaning of "I have stooped" and you seem to want to continue an already ended for now arguement so its obvious that you wouldn't know what they mean...
But i will give another example for you...
Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...
Hmmm i just linked the game world directly to real world... those 2 match up so good that it is so eay to make a connection <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeh and caffiene doesn't improve transfer of oxygen into blood which i used in my example..... so you can't read properly either...
Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules you can link alot things that don't break the rules to cheating which is all i have been doing... and i got the best example in the world for this... THE ONOS
When you go Onos and have the charge ability and when you use it you can run poor helpless marines over provided u keep running into him long enough... but because of the bug in the game engine you can use the charge ability and e.g. change to the devour weapon and get devour kills by running them over when you haven't actually even used the devour weapon but because the Onos wants devour kills it does it this way as you can get 4 dvour kills in the time of 1 with it...
Now lets take a look at the impotant points there charge, devour and not using the devour weapon... If you devour someone without using the devour weapon it is not a legitimate devour kill because you never used the weapon... but because you wanted devour kills you did it the easiest way possible by using charge to help you accomplish this... now that can be linked to cheating regardless of wether its a bug in the game or not.
there you go linking to cheating without breaking the rules <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please just stop making me write the essays by giving answer that i can answer back to.. i personally cannot help myself and i can admit that... the unfortunate side to the arguement is that it is recking this poor guys thread... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> TheJim: Im ending this debate here, expect no more replies. You fail to make any cohesive point, counter any of my examples, or provide examples of your own. You aren't even using the proper protocol for a forum debate. I wont bother with this... some people just aren't worth the time and anyone reading this thread can judge for themselves.
I know some people always need to have the last word so go for it.
<!--QuoteBegin-Real PUA+Jun 9 2005, 11:49 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Real PUA @ Jun 9 2005, 11:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 12:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 12:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Real PUA+Jun 9 2005, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Real PUA @ Jun 9 2005, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> TheJim: I <b>am</b> talking about the "game world" as you put it. If you clicked the dictionary reference you'd see that there are actually many definitions of cheating, the only one that applies to games is "breaking rules." If scripts are known and allowed then in no circumstances could it be considered cheating. If CAL banned scripts, then using scripts in a CAL match would be cheating, yes, because you are breaking a rule. You cant just make up your own definitions for words...
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...
tell me what dictionary that used the american version?
If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done..... and by the way there are alot of words that can be linked to the word cheat but i wont bother saying them because you don't seem to know the meaning of "I have stooped" and you seem to want to continue an already ended for now arguement so its obvious that you wouldn't know what they mean...
But i will give another example for you...
Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...
Hmmm i just linked the game world directly to real world... those 2 match up so good that it is so eay to make a connection
Oh yeh and caffiene doesn't improve transfer of oxygen into blood which i used in my example..... so you can't read properly either...
Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules you can link alot things that don't break the rules to cheating which is all i have been doing... and i got the best example in the world for this... THE ONOS
When you go Onos and have the charge ability and when you use it you can run poor helpless marines over provided u keep running into him long enough... but because of the bug in the game engine you can use the charge ability and e.g. change to the devour weapon and get devour kills by running them over when you haven't actually even used the devour weapon but because the Onos wants devour kills it does it this way as you can get 4 dvour kills in the time of 1 with it...
Now lets take a look at the impotant points there charge, devour and not using the devour weapon... If you devour someone without using the devour weapon it is not a legitimate devour kill because you never used the weapon... but because you wanted devour kills you did it the easiest way possible by using charge to help you accomplish this... now that can be linked to cheating regardless of wether its a bug in the game or not.
there you go linking to cheating without breaking the rules <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please just stop making me write the essays by giving answer that i can answer back to.. i personally cannot help myself and i can admit that... the unfortunate side to the arguement is that it is recking this poor guys thread... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> TheJim: Im ending this debate here, expect no more replies. You fail to make any cohesive point, counter any of my examples, or provide examples of your own. You aren't even using the proper protocol for a forum debate. I wont bother with this... some people just aren't worth the time and anyone reading this thread can judge for themselves.
I know some people always need to have the last word so go for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oki to satisfy your needs my last word is this and its quite immature tbh but you inadvertantly asked me to have the last say so i have done what you wanted:
My libertarian ways leek into how I view all aspects of authority,
What things do you find appealing? - 0 restrictions, with exceptions being for those who seriously and drastically disrupt gameplay
What things do you hate? - overreaching, overbearing, and far too many restrictions, as seen below
Do you like FF? - no Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? - not unless you have a dedicated strong community, otherwise it is just a deterrant to people stopping by your server Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? - off Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? - absolutely not Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? - absolutely not
<!--QuoteBegin-ubermensch+Jun 10 2005, 04:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (ubermensch @ Jun 10 2005, 04:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> My libertarian ways leek into how I view all aspects of authority,
What things do you find appealing? - 0 restrictions, with exceptions being for those who seriously and drastically disrupt gameplay
What things do you hate? - overreaching, overbearing, and far too many restrictions, as seen below
Do you like FF? - no Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? - not unless you have a dedicated strong community, otherwise it is just a deterrant to people stopping by your server Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? - off Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? - absolutely not Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? - absolutely not <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> you loathe me but i love you
All he says is correct. If you put up a server like that and you only kicked/banned those who ruined the fun of others, I'd be there a few hours a night gaurenteed.
Sayin all this crap that i have about scripts being bad an all that crap.
Well this morning i just woke up and thought what the hell if players wana script let them it happens alot of people see as fair far more than those who think its unfair and i just suddenly think scripting is ok dunno what changed my mind i just did.
So i suppose i take back all i said in this thread about it <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What things do you find appealing? Tolerant admins, and a fun regular base. You can feel like you belong to a community where you know everybody, and anybody who's a pain in the rear is sent elsewhere. Basically the players have some say in server issues as long as they know their place. What things do you hate? I hate when smurf crowds repeatedly visit and be lame. Or admins who take out their frustration on players. Do you like FF? Yeah, I think it's one of those things people should be able to bring up a vote on whenever. Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? No, not at all. NS doesn't have any sort of reliable hack detection programs. The stupid hackers will be caught by admins anyway. Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? Undecided, really. I think you'll **** more people off with ON, though. Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? No. Little dogs are biting humans to death. I don't think **** or **** or **** or **** is any worse. Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? Racism's a different issue. Your typical gaming racist has one objective: offending someone. On a pub I'd rather play with people who won't call the comm a string of words where it follows a race-swear-race-swear pattern which just sounds stupid. There's plenty of other places to go to be stupid.
Good thread concept, but I think as a moderator put it, good server threads always evolve into bad server threads, and a flame war erupts out of that.
Best of luck on your server Boris, sounds like you're on the right track. If you need any help with your server, whether from a configuration standpoint or from a theoretical admin level, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. I've been admining FR31NS for almost a year now. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway, here's the answers that we chose for our server.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What things do you find appealing?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> A friendly atmosphere is key. People telling jokes, having a good time, and not taking the game too seriously goes a long way in todays high NS Drama world.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What things do you hate?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Abusive admins are first on my list. Despite LM being reputed as a great server, I refuse to play there because of a bad experience I had with an admin when I was a newbie. It only takes once, but people will remember you for a long time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like FF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> FF is a very tough question. Many people like it, but it's very difficult to admin. Be very wary of turning it on permanently on your server. Thoguh, I will admit reading people's responses makes me ponder turning it on on FR31NS...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> They're a hassle and don't particularly help, I'd suggest avoiding them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Blockscripts off, without question, always. The only time I ever questioned it was when mp_bs 1 blocked _special scripts but mp_bs 0 did not, and fortunatly we don't have to worry about that now.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We have a fairly strict no-cursing policy. It's worked out rather well for us, as it's generally a good way to syphon out the people who... well... you wouldn't particularly want playing. Most intelligent people will stop once after you warn them anyway, so it's not caused many problems.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> We don't have a censorship plugin on the server, but no racism is key.
Anyway, feel free to drop me a line anytime, I'll be more than happy to lend you my experience. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
For the extralevels2 naysayers, we have in development a web-based server browser that will show you everything you want to know about ANY NS server that's running. <b>Currently only 29.3% of all NS servers are running extralevels2.</b>
This server browser will show you players, map, timeleft, type (windoze or penguin), scripting, ff, drawdamage, and ALL plugins (including bots) that are currently running on any given ns server. This thing is suhhhweeet! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A lot? For all the scuttlebut that's been going on and players whining they cant find a server withOUT extralevels2, I'd say 29.3% pretty much tells the tale. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
1) Ping < 100. Will play up to 150 if I have to. 2) Players 10-18 3) FF = Off
That usually narrows the field to 5-10 servers.
After that, I may have a CO/NS preference depending on the mood I'm in.
I usually avoid Siege/MvM/etc maps and servers.
If there is still more then one option available to me at this point, then I'll look for a server I know. However, I'm usually forced to take whatever I can get.
I have high speed internet and live in the U.S. The fact that I can find MAYBE 5 appealling servers is not a good thing. People try to convince me NS isn't slowly killing itself off, but I can tell you one thing, it sure isn't growing.
I had more options playing TFC 3 years after its release. (And don't even mention CounterStrike back in the beta 4 and 5 days.)
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Jun 6 2005, 06:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Jun 6 2005, 06:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ----BS = ON (we like to play VANILLA as much as possible and yes people can get around certain things, but we like to try to get them to play vanilla - it's the way we want the game to be played. So crying about this falls on deaf ears) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well you just terminated a large playerbase.
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Jun 6 2005, 05:35 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Jun 6 2005, 05:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What things do you find appealing? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good admins, good players (I despise owning every single pub out there)...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> What things do you hate? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Stupid game altering mods and servers with too many players. Over 20 is way too much. 17 is a nice number.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like FF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't mind it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> No, I dislike the [No-CD] prefix on my name and I don't think they help at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Off. It gets frustrating to have to rebind all my slot keys, my mousewheel...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't care either way, but no swearing seems dumb.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? etc. etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Same as above.
I try playing there some mouth ago and a admin (I wont say any name) told me to stop bhoping as marine I was pretty much surprise (I got ban from server back in 1.04 for that) and I think a marine can to that to gain speed and advantage in battle so I said to myself lets try back in a few mouth. I went back there 2 weeks ago and I start bh around as a marine and doing some jump to avoid skulk, fade attack. The first thing I saw an admin spectating (unknow player to the community with high score this is a classic). I was surprise not because he was spectating me but I wasn't ban yet. Most servers ban me right away without any warning. After some time playing they got used to me and now I play on Mr as much as I can (it remind me condomless). So for me it's a good community because : 1. I can play there 2. There is teamplay, FF is on and swearing is low (it show mature player) 3. No stupid plug-in 4. I ping low
On a side note I dislike script pscript!(everyone know that) but i don't care if ppl use them.
Vanilla ns is fun, all the plugins are a pain I try to find servers with competent players, MR isn't too bad for this, neither is IAM, LM never seems to have smart (playingwise) people on.
Do you like FF? - on Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? - garbage Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? - off, may as well learn how to kill everyone Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? - meh, I swear on ventrilo anyway, the only reason I would be swearing in game is as a comm or at the comm Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? - keep an admin about, kick if things get bad
mvm is bad, extralevels past 12 is bad, showres is unnecessary, just look when you die if you need to know, or ask. phase select has to be one of the worst ones, when I click on a pg, I want to phase, not sit there for a few seconds trying to read a menu that is obscured by the phase particles. Bots are pretty terrible, luckily the server browser has an icon for servers with bots. almost 1/3 of the servers with extra levels? :'( and take out the private servers, it is probably closer to half :''(
Comments
they make us clothes at christmas <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ever heard of these clans called Terror and Exigent? I ran across remiCs smurfing on a BS 1 server. He was pulling every trick in the book. Slow uniform hovering with jetpacks, beautiful glidejump and bunnyhopping, and exceedingly fast pistol shots.
He didn't seem any worse at all. I'd like for you to name what 'half of the things we can do with scripts we cant without'.
Let's see. I use a pscript and 3jump. I can shoot as fast without pscript, I just have to try a bit harder. Oh Em Gee, finger twitch skill should be so important in a strategic/tactical game.
3jump? I can bhop with mousewheel. I just prefer not to. You guys would have me always using +jump. No thanks.
But since Pro BS 1 people hardly ever know a thing about scripts and how the exploitative ones are banned anyway, I don't expect anything good to come out of this discussion.
Just know this: If you see a guy named something normal destroying your BS 1 server, even odds says it's some smurfing clanner having fun trashing you. Apparently, they DO have skill.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->OMG, I have a automatic drive transmission car, I can drive without changing gears, but I can't drive a manual car without changing gears!!! I SCRIPT AT LIFE!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Congratulations Swift, you've made my sig.
Now let the topic go back to how the thread starter wanted it <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What things do you find appealing?
What things do you hate?
Do you like FF?
Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)?
Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF?
Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)?
Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things?
etc. etc.
Help me answer some of these questions if you can guys...
I'm sure this topic has come up before but searching didn't help me (or it's been so long ago, it didn't show up).
Just to let you know who I am/why I'm doing this:
-I started and run the "Mr|Server(FF) - mrcommunity.ca"
-I'm always looking to improve on how we run the community and feedback is important.
If you've visited the server before, your feedback is greatly appreciated (both positive or negative). If you've never played there before, it would be nice to know what you guys like about the servers you DO play on.
Thanks for helping,
Boris <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/nerd-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
appealing? never heard that word. i think i know wt u mean: bots, extralevels and elec welding
i hate like always: noob admins, clanservers, that different(always ****) loading music on different servers, MvM and gag
FF: ****
CD sucks, VAC Rocks
i dont use scripts in ns
rules that enforce no swearing: ****
servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things: makes me hate that **** server
i dont really understand this, am i visited in your server? no
He isn't asking wether you have played or am going to play on his server...
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong.
But what I see the most out of all the defensive posts about scripts is:
-All the things scripts do for you, can be done without them
-They make things "easier", and it's "harder" without them to perform tasks like bunnyhopping.
Very poor arguements, if you ask me...
You make it look like noone needs to script (so why do we need them?). You also enhance the arguement about cheating, because you keep stating it's "easier" to do such things with a script (I can see enemies easier when I have a wall-hack too).
Maybe this sidetracked debate on scripting can be split from this topic and continued on in an appropriate thread.
Thanks again to those who have been posting with regards to the original topic.
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...
tell me what dictionary that used the american version?
If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done..... and by the way there are alot of words that can be linked to the word cheat but i wont bother saying them because you don't seem to know the meaning of "I have stooped" and you seem to want to continue an already ended for now arguement so its obvious that you wouldn't know what they mean...
But i will give another example for you...
Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...
Hmmm i just linked the game world directly to real world... those 2 match up so good that it is so eay to make a connection <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeh and caffiene doesn't improve transfer of oxygen into blood which i used in my example..... so you can't read properly either...
Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules you can link alot things that don't break the rules to cheating which is all i have been doing... and i got the best example in the world for this... THE ONOS
When you go Onos and have the charge ability and when you use it you can run poor helpless marines over provided u keep running into him long enough... but because of the bug in the game engine you can use the charge ability and e.g. change to the devour weapon and get devour kills by running them over when you haven't actually even used the devour weapon but because the Onos wants devour kills it does it this way as you can get 4 dvour kills in the time of 1 with it...
Now lets take a look at the impotant points there charge, devour and not using the devour weapon... If you devour someone without using the devour weapon it is not a legitimate devour kill because you never used the weapon... but because you wanted devour kills you did it the easiest way possible by using charge to help you accomplish this... now that can be linked to cheating regardless of wether its a bug in the game or not.
there you go linking to cheating without breaking the rules <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please just stop making me write the essays by giving answer that i can answer back to.. i personally cannot help myself and i can admit that... the unfortunate side to the arguement is that it is recking this poor guys thread... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The game can't be played the way it is set up by default. NS's default config is equivalent to a CS config with no +moveforward, it is literally layed out that poorly.
Basicly scripting is one of two options. Option A is totally rebuild your config so the game is playable (mousewheel as +jump and/or +attack, fastswitch on, and a tighter weapon selection base) or script to make the default config work to do all those things for you with the same proper set of keys.
A good player's config will never be set up default, so if you intend to inforce vanillaism, just ban any good player and you are set. Scripting doesn't allow pretty much ANYTHING adventagious that cannot be done without scripts. I know, because I've done my recearch, and I still don't script.
Really the main thing BS1 does is chase skilled players away from your server. It's bad publicity and little else.
Do you prefer to attract noobie players with little or no comunity voice or play experiance as your regulars, or do you prefer to attract skilled players who will bring alot more to your table by playing there? because from a PR standpoint that is the choice you are making between BS1 and BS0. Realize that by putting BS1 on you are basicly freezing any scripter's config as soon as they join your server. They can not hotkey join a team, they cannot attack, they cannot jump, they have to rebind everything just to play a game there. Most of them just go somewhere else rather then fool around with it, and certainly don't decide to regular your server after that experiance. A big price to pay considering pretty much every american clanner scripts, and even the one's that don't probably won't regular your server if you chase away all thier buddies. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What is interesting about the blockscripts debate is that blockscript servers actually make the pub player worse off than the competitive player.
This point was brought up in a discussion in the competitive forum. Many competitive NS players said that scripts didn't make them better players, but Puzl said that scripts made him a better player. Puzl is not a competitive player. Adj also argued that he played just as good without scripts, than with scripts, and for most scripters it takes a little time to adjust to get used to it.
So basically competitive players don't really get hurt on BS servers, and the pub players miss out on something that can make them better. This got me wondering that maybe BS servers hurt the pub regulars more than the competitive players. Because if scripts provide so much of an advantage, why competitive players on BS servers constantly dominate those who regular it?
BS just shoots pub players in the foot, people want to play with an adjusted config that is totally legal within the HL engine, but others need to see it as an exploit (even though Valve has said otherwise).
It seems scripts are another excuse for the owned to feel better about the lack of talent they have. Its not my fault I died, its the scripts!
laff.
No? Dev team? Hello? <b>Someone</b> tell me why this won't work?
If you truly wanted to stop, you would not have responded. And don't try to take the moral high ground here; I've seen more ad hominem attacks out of you than any other single person in this thread (and perhaps all of them combined).
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done.....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Customized binds make life easier, do they not? They also often allow the user to perform actions that he would have been unable to perform effectively with the default binds. Is a custom bind configuration then classified as a cheat?
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That is a circular argument, as you assume as a premise that scripts are not legitimate.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Jun 9 2005, 01:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But if you expand the definition of cheating to beyond simple rule-breaking, then to class scripting as cheating becomes no longer an argument for its illegitimacy. The term "legitimate" is itself defined as "being in compliance with the law".
<!--QuoteBegin-Boris+Jun 9 2005, 01:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Boris @ Jun 9 2005, 01:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You make it look like noone needs to script (so why do we need them?). You also enhance the arguement about cheating, because you keep stating it's "easier" to do such things with a script (I can see enemies easier when I have a wall-hack too).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You might just as well ask why people need custom binds. They aren't truly needed, but a customized interface allows users to more easily and comfortably interact with the game. Yes, it can be easier to do something with a script. But likewise, it can also be easier to do something with customized binds than with the default scheme.
As you can see, your problems have been solved and there is really no sense in digging any deeper in the "scripts are cheats" hole.
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...
tell me what dictionary that used the american version?
If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done..... and by the way there are alot of words that can be linked to the word cheat but i wont bother saying them because you don't seem to know the meaning of "I have stooped" and you seem to want to continue an already ended for now arguement so its obvious that you wouldn't know what they mean...
But i will give another example for you...
Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...
Hmmm i just linked the game world directly to real world... those 2 match up so good that it is so eay to make a connection <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Oh yeh and caffiene doesn't improve transfer of oxygen into blood which i used in my example..... so you can't read properly either...
Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules you can link alot things that don't break the rules to cheating which is all i have been doing... and i got the best example in the world for this... THE ONOS
When you go Onos and have the charge ability and when you use it you can run poor helpless marines over provided u keep running into him long enough... but because of the bug in the game engine you can use the charge ability and e.g. change to the devour weapon and get devour kills by running them over when you haven't actually even used the devour weapon but because the Onos wants devour kills it does it this way as you can get 4 dvour kills in the time of 1 with it...
Now lets take a look at the impotant points there charge, devour and not using the devour weapon... If you devour someone without using the devour weapon it is not a legitimate devour kill because you never used the weapon... but because you wanted devour kills you did it the easiest way possible by using charge to help you accomplish this... now that can be linked to cheating regardless of wether its a bug in the game or not.
there you go linking to cheating without breaking the rules <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please just stop making me write the essays by giving answer that i can answer back to.. i personally cannot help myself and i can admit that... the unfortunate side to the arguement is that it is recking this poor guys thread... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
TheJim: Im ending this debate here, expect no more replies. You fail to make any cohesive point, counter any of my examples, or provide examples of your own. You aren't even using the proper protocol for a forum debate. I wont bother with this... some people just aren't worth the time and anyone reading this thread can judge for themselves.
I know some people always need to have the last word so go for it.
IRTOQ: No mods, no reserve slots, no BS 1. I like Natural Selection.
END. See you guys another day three posts is enough bye.
You have some other logic that if a script allows something you cannot do with out it then that script = cheat. This is not what the word "cheat" means...cheat means dishonesty. Pick a new word.
As for you example from the olympics, well using a performance enhancing substance is against the rules (except for caffiene, which the olympics allow, and which allows the human body to do more than it could with out it). So even your analogy is wrong. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
People just can't take the word stop and just leave something...
tell me what dictionary that used the american version?
If you make something to make life easier for you in-game or do something you can't do on your own then it can be classed as cheating to get it done..... and by the way there are alot of words that can be linked to the word cheat but i wont bother saying them because you don't seem to know the meaning of "I have stooped" and you seem to want to continue an already ended for now arguement so its obvious that you wouldn't know what they mean...
But i will give another example for you...
Fraud can be linked to cheat.... When you fraud documents to get something you want.. guess what you are cheating to get what you want because you altering or changing documents illegitimately to benefit you.. and you are doing this in scripts... you are creating illigitimate things to benefit and quite alot of the time improve your gameplay because you can't do better without them...
Hmmm i just linked the game world directly to real world... those 2 match up so good that it is so eay to make a connection
Oh yeh and caffiene doesn't improve transfer of oxygen into blood which i used in my example..... so you can't read properly either...
Cheating in-game doesn't have to be breaking the rules you can link alot things that don't break the rules to cheating which is all i have been doing... and i got the best example in the world for this... THE ONOS
When you go Onos and have the charge ability and when you use it you can run poor helpless marines over provided u keep running into him long enough... but because of the bug in the game engine you can use the charge ability and e.g. change to the devour weapon and get devour kills by running them over when you haven't actually even used the devour weapon but because the Onos wants devour kills it does it this way as you can get 4 dvour kills in the time of 1 with it...
Now lets take a look at the impotant points there charge, devour and not using the devour weapon... If you devour someone without using the devour weapon it is not a legitimate devour kill because you never used the weapon... but because you wanted devour kills you did it the easiest way possible by using charge to help you accomplish this... now that can be linked to cheating regardless of wether its a bug in the game or not.
there you go linking to cheating without breaking the rules <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Please just stop making me write the essays by giving answer that i can answer back to.. i personally cannot help myself and i can admit that... the unfortunate side to the arguement is that it is recking this poor guys thread... <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
TheJim: Im ending this debate here, expect no more replies. You fail to make any cohesive point, counter any of my examples, or provide examples of your own. You aren't even using the proper protocol for a forum debate. I wont bother with this... some people just aren't worth the time and anyone reading this thread can judge for themselves.
I know some people always need to have the last word so go for it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oki to satisfy your needs my last word is this and its quite immature tbh but you inadvertantly asked me to have the last say so i have done what you wanted:
<b><span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>RAWR</span></span></b> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
What things do you find appealing? - 0 restrictions, with exceptions being for those who seriously and drastically disrupt gameplay
What things do you hate? - overreaching, overbearing, and far too many restrictions, as seen below
Do you like FF? - no
Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? - not unless you have a dedicated strong community, otherwise it is just a deterrant to people stopping by your server
Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? - off
Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? - absolutely not
Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? - absolutely not
What things do you find appealing? - 0 restrictions, with exceptions being for those who seriously and drastically disrupt gameplay
What things do you hate? - overreaching, overbearing, and far too many restrictions, as seen below
Do you like FF? - no
Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? - not unless you have a dedicated strong community, otherwise it is just a deterrant to people stopping by your server
Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? - off
Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? - absolutely not
Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? - absolutely not <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
you loathe me but i love you
All he says is correct. If you put up a server like that and you only kicked/banned those who ruined the fun of others, I'd be there a few hours a night gaurenteed.
Well this morning i just woke up and thought what the hell if players wana script let them it happens alot of people see as fair far more than those who think its unfair and i just suddenly think scripting is ok dunno what changed my mind i just did.
So i suppose i take back all i said in this thread about it <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Tolerant admins, and a fun regular base. You can feel like you belong to a community where you know everybody, and anybody who's a pain in the rear is sent elsewhere. Basically the players have some say in server issues as long as they know their place.
What things do you hate?
I hate when smurf crowds repeatedly visit and be lame. Or admins who take out their frustration on players.
Do you like FF?
Yeah, I think it's one of those things people should be able to bring up a vote on whenever.
Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)?
No, not at all. NS doesn't have any sort of reliable hack detection programs. The stupid hackers will be caught by admins anyway.
Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF?
Undecided, really. I think you'll **** more people off with ON, though.
Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)?
No. Little dogs are biting humans to death. I don't think **** or **** or **** or **** is any worse.
Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things?
Racism's a different issue. Your typical gaming racist has one objective: offending someone. On a pub I'd rather play with people who won't call the comm a string of words where it follows a race-swear-race-swear pattern which just sounds stupid. There's plenty of other places to go to be stupid.
Good thread concept, but I think as a moderator put it, good server threads always evolve into bad server threads, and a flame war erupts out of that.
Anyway, here's the answers that we chose for our server.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What things do you find appealing?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
A friendly atmosphere is key. People telling jokes, having a good time, and not taking the game too seriously goes a long way in todays high NS Drama world.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->What things do you hate?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Abusive admins are first on my list. Despite LM being reputed as a great server, I refuse to play there because of a bad experience I had with an admin when I was a newbie. It only takes once, but people will remember you for a long time.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like FF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
FF is a very tough question. Many people like it, but it's very difficult to admin. Be very wary of turning it on permanently on your server. Thoguh, I will admit reading people's responses makes me ponder turning it on on FR31NS...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They're a hassle and don't particularly help, I'd suggest avoiding them.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Blockscripts off, without question, always. The only time I ever questioned it was when mp_bs 1 blocked _special scripts but mp_bs 0 did not, and fortunatly we don't have to worry about that now.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We have a fairly strict no-cursing policy. It's worked out rather well for us, as it's generally a good way to syphon out the people who... well... you wouldn't particularly want playing. Most intelligent people will stop once after you warn them anyway, so it's not caused many problems.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We don't have a censorship plugin on the server, but no racism is key.
Anyway, feel free to drop me a line anytime, I'll be more than happy to lend you my experience. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
-Brackhar
This server browser will show you players, map, timeleft, type (windoze or penguin), scripting, ff, drawdamage, and ALL plugins (including bots) that are currently running on any given ns server. This thing is suhhhweeet! <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Curious to see the web based server browser, though.
Quite a few use 15 levels and my servers use maxlevel 12 and may be soon dropping to vannilla combat of level 10.
2) Players 10-18
3) FF = Off
That usually narrows the field to 5-10 servers.
After that, I may have a CO/NS preference depending on the mood I'm in.
I usually avoid Siege/MvM/etc maps and servers.
If there is still more then one option available to me at this point, then I'll look for a server I know. However, I'm usually forced to take whatever I can get.
I have high speed internet and live in the U.S. The fact that I can find MAYBE 5 appealling servers is not a good thing. People try to convince me NS isn't slowly killing itself off, but I can tell you one thing, it sure isn't growing.
I had more options playing TFC 3 years after its release. (And don't even mention CounterStrike back in the beta 4 and 5 days.)
Well you just terminated a large playerbase.
Good admins, good players (I despise owning every single pub out there)...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
What things do you hate?
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Stupid game altering mods and servers with too many players. Over 20 is way too much. 17 is a nice number.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like FF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't mind it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, I dislike the [No-CD] prefix on my name and I don't think they help at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Off. It gets frustrating to have to rebind all my slot keys, my mousewheel...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't care either way, but no swearing seems dumb.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things?
etc. etc.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Same as above.
1. I can play there
2. There is teamplay, FF is on and swearing is low (it show mature player)
3. No stupid plug-in
4. I ping low
On a side note I dislike script pscript!(everyone know that) but i don't care if ppl use them.
I try to find servers with competent players, MR isn't too bad for this, neither is IAM, LM never seems to have smart (playingwise) people on.
Do you like FF? - on
Do you like anti-hack programs like CD (do you think they help)? - garbage
Do you like Blockscripts ON or OFF? - off, may as well learn how to kill everyone
Do you like places with rules that enforce no swearing (keep the swearing to a minimum)? - meh, I swear on ventrilo anyway, the only reason I would be swearing in game is as a comm or at the comm
Do you like servers that enforce NO racism rules/censor things? - keep an admin about, kick if things get bad
mvm is bad, extralevels past 12 is bad, showres is unnecessary, just look when you die if you need to know, or ask. phase select has to be one of the worst ones, when I click on a pg, I want to phase, not sit there for a few seconds trying to read a menu that is obscured by the phase particles. Bots are pretty terrible, luckily the server browser has an icon for servers with bots.
almost 1/3 of the servers with extra levels? :'( and take out the private servers, it is probably closer to half :''(