We might as well try to guess at the wolves’ motives, as it might help uncover a wolf, or at least point us in the right direction.
1) He was a fairly experienced player, so it would be wise to take him out of the game before he had a chance to use his experience against the wolves. The game is just starting to open up now, and it would be a hell of a lot easier for the wolves if none of us knew what we were doing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) He was pretty anti-talesin, so perhaps the wolves wanted to set us off against him. It would be a pretty stupid idea for Talesin to wolf im_lost, as it would draw attention to himself irregardless of our views. Therefore, I think that while it is not safe to ignore Talesin completely in regards to suspicious behavior, he is less likely to be a wolf than some of the other players. It would probably be for the best if we did not turn on him and blame him for im_lost's death.
That is all that I can think of, really. We still have little to go on, so lets not go witch hunting.
Snidely, I just spotted your post, and I think that you have a point. Especially about the experienced players being killed bit and the changes in swifts view of im_lost. I'll refrain from voting at the moment, but I can definitely see your point.
Swift's behaviour back during the vote of yore was certainly suspicious, but I'm not yet certain whether he is a wolf, not in the least because his issues with Lost were very public knowledge: It's day four and our band of players is shrinking so far that the wolves can stage a successful lynching on their own; we can't afford to assume them stupid anymore. <i>If</i> Swift was a wolf, he'd've likely attacked someone like Sky or Snidley first to remove a comparably active and experienced player without of attracting additional suspicion. 'Course, these are multi-variable considerations and therefore potentially very faulty, but I'd prefer to lose to the wolves because I was too sharp than too thick for my own good <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'll repeat that I assume Talesin's behaviour to be inducted out of a volatile mix between his working schedule and his inexperience with this game. As above, I can see myself being very wrong here, but I'm going to mirror Muffin's remark here and note that I wouldn't jump to conclusions over Lost's voting behaviour from last round.
I burned my fingers on an early vote last round. The situation between myself and BK developed, though I am still convinced of my logic's soundness, partially out of spite, and I won't have this happen again to me. I'll therefore hold off on votes until at least wednesday evening and consider all points raised until then.
Thank god I made it back in time. The game completely slipped my mind. So I'll just pick up where I left off.
I'd just like to take a moment to say that I'm sorry to see im lost and BadKarma go. I hope they enjoyed the game up to this point at the least. As for im lost I am going to add that I think it's sad that we won't have his information skills to aid us anymore. This brings up a point on whether he was killed for that though. ================= Okay on to the accusations and so on.
I've noticed that there has been a sudden drop in activity from a few players, ones that were reasonably active before. What this makes me think about however, is that somehow, they saw fit to make themselves less seen in the game. Now I can hardly be one to make accusations since I up and left for a bit, out of stupidity more than anything else.
But it's precisely because I made the same mistake that I knew better than to start crusading against them for what could be an honest mistake.
So as a temporary vote, to prevent myself from acquiring a phantom vote against me, I am going to put myself down for <b>brute_force</b>. His sudden dissapearance has me raising my eyebrows. ------------ At snidely;
You've played a quiet and paced game so far, so why the sudden change to "crusader mode"? I see why you say what you say, but I think I need to hear more on this matter before I can make any big moves.
You've played a quiet and paced game so far, so why the sudden change to "crusader mode"? I see why you say what you say, but I think I need to hear more on this matter before I can make any big moves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I have? I started suspecting Swift before today. I told you as much in a PM, remember? I quote: "If I was asked to say which three people I find most suspicious right now, I'd say Swift, then BadKarma, then Talesin." After that, I talked to Swift on IRC and he went down to second-equal. Now he's my chief suspect.
Apart from the first day, I've pretty much decided on who I find most suspicious, write my case against them, and place my vote. I've always placed my vote early on. As far as activity, well: I have <i>at least</i> one reply on <b>every single page</b> except for pages 8, 11 and 13.
I'm not saying that everyone should vote against Swiftspear, anyway; I'm just laying out my case. I certainly wouldn't want anyone to vote right away. Take your time and come to your own conclusions.
As for why I haven't been wolfed - I'm green, and he's had little reason to think that I suspect him so much. I'm Lost would be the bigger threat. As for Sky, he must be around when I'm not, as I haven't seen that much of him.
brute force - 1 (Cold NiTe) every single page - 1 (Snidely) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Ha ha ha ha ha! (:
@snidely: do you know what I'm comparing against when I say I have been less active this game? TWG2 I spent at least 4 hours a day playing the game, I had every plan and backup plan thought out to the tee, I had LONG lists of what I thought about everyone, I had nearly 50 pages of PM logs between other players. I have niether the time nor the energy to devote that much time towards this TWG, yet as far as I can tell I have still been one of the more active players in this game, and no one has come even close to matching my level of activity in TWG2.
Also I have already adressed the im_lost issue with you. I explained quite at lenght my motivations for voting lost in the first place. I can understand you not agreeing with my motives or beliving them inadequate, but in your post you didn't awknowladge that I had even made statements in my defense to you. I have played more TWG with lost then any of you. He's a great player, and I'm really disapointed to that he is dead now knowing that he was definately human this game, we've lost a huge asset. But at that time some of the things he did just really rubbed my senses. For the record by the onset of last night I had talked with lost a fair bit and I was no longer feeling suspicious of him at all.
Being accused I can suck up and deal with, but pick and choose character smearing is more then I am ok with amounst humans. I have little choice here but to place my vote for <b>snidely</b>.
Also, I wanted to add, when I said Lost wasn't being active enough it was more that I meant he wasn't PMing me every couple days like he did in past TWG, not that he hasn't been around on IRC or the forums enough. Lost PMed me last night and we talked at lenght, unfortunately most of our conclusions are more irrelevent now that he is dead.
And we all killed off karma. Granted I was involved in that vote, but I see no reason to belive that he wasn't a wolf still now. Of all the lynch votes we have done so far I am most confident about that one. I am a little worried now that I am the wolfs next target in retrospect... but I really don't care. I still know almost nothing in this game, and if the wolfs kill me off, hopefully that saves someone more important from being wolfed.
You've played a quiet and paced game so far, so why the sudden change to "crusader mode"? I see why you say what you say, but I think I need to hear more on this matter before I can make any big moves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have? I started suspecting Swift before today. I told you as much in a PM, remember? I quote: "If I was asked to say which three people I find most suspicious right now, I'd say Swift, then BadKarma, then Talesin." After that, I talked to Swift on IRC and he went down to second-equal. Now he's my chief suspect.
Apart from the first day, I've pretty much decided on who I find most suspicious, write my case against them, and place my vote. I've always placed my vote early on. As far as activity, well: I have <i>at least</i> one reply on <b>every single page</b> except for pages 8, 11 and 13.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ok, that makes way more sense.
I remember what we discussed, it's just I didn't expect you to come forward with it so soon. I'll definitely keep it in mind anyway. The only reason I called what you did crusading is that you started a rant, and you can tell it's a rant because it got swiftspear going... (God save us when that happens... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) But the thing is, going after the supposed enemy in sight may blind you to the enemy at your back. That's why I am going to keep my eyes open. While my convictions are also very similar to yours. (We agreed on, and continue to agree on, certain targets.) I simply do not play in such a way that allows me to jump into a thread be certain.
That could very well be a bad thing, because it limits my decisiveness, but I don't want to think that I'm pointing fingers at somebody, and letting someone else get away. You fight the good fight snidely, if you are confident in that decision then I will be confident in you, but I am going to let you be point man on this. If you figure something out that even I can't be skeptical about, then I'll probably bandwagon, despite how I hate doing that since my first failure in voting for slacky. (I'm dead certain it was, though I have no way of knowing for sure. Noob's intuition? I don't know.)
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited April 2005
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'> <i>Talesin</i>'s voice crackles over the ship intercom. "Would all personnel please report to the briefing room. I have a confession to make."</span>
--------
The briefing room is lit, but several of the chairs are notably absent... their usual occupants no longer having use of them. <i>Talesin</i> sits at the head of the table, in full doctor's dress uniform. He coughs softly and stands as the last two filter in, taking their seats. "I'm sure you're all curious, but I'll ask for silence until I'm finished explaining my actions."
"Early after the initial failed blood tests, I took it upon myself to check the ship manifest. I discovered that among our cargo was a very specialized piece of equipment, destined for an upcoming research station. A Sensor Enhancing Emulsion Resonator. Normally, it would be useless... it's geared more toward analysis of subatomic masses." He looks around the room for any kind of recognition, before continuing. "It struck me that anything able to mimic us to the degree that we've seen... and are seeing in this room, must either be one of us, controlled by the remote ship that is still in pursuit, or capable of altering itself to a degree surpassing the measurement of our scanning devices." He picks up a remote from the table, and taps a button, the presentation screen springing to life with a detailed sequence of data, and slowly-spiralling shapes. "The long and short of it is, after applying the S.E.E.R. device to the spectroscopic analyzer, it DID come up with differences in some samples. And radical ones.. the nucleopeptides are completely off." He gestures, almost the entire list of scrolling values lighting up, boxed in red. The shapes are overlaid by another, and the non-matching segments of the first are similarly highlighted in red.
"The down side is, scanning each blood sample again with the higher resolution takes much longer than a simple bio-scan. Just under twenty hours, to be exact. I've already run five samples.. I'm hesitant to mention the others that came up as human, as it would put them at risk. Also, running Heartline's sample produced no unusual results. I can only hope that when... if we get to a station, they will be able to provide the analysis and treatment he requires."
He steps back and presses another button, the screen changing to show a pair of the displays, as well as personnel profiles to identify the subjects. "Now the interesting part. Two of the samples came back as non-human. <i><b>NemesisZero</b></i>, and <i>Swiftspear</i>." He holds up a hand.. "I cannot confirm that the S.E.E.R. device was not tampered with, as once I discovered it, I kept it in my quarters, in a space I had reserved for less... legal medications. The door to my quarters had been tampered with, but the compartment seemed untouched."
After a long moment, he lets out a deep sigh, pinching the bridge of his nose. "Unfortunately, I'm only saying this because I do not hold hopes of SEER finishing its run through the samples in time to expunge the <span style='color:red'>formtakers</span>. I have left the device in the care of the first of the two confirmed-humans, as after having said this, I do not hold high hopes for my own survival. But I could not stand and bide my time... there have been too many lives lost already."
He looks up, eyes flicking to each face, meeting them for a few moments. "Also, during my search of the manifest, I also turned up two other pieces of useful equipment, that had been taken before I could secure them... a GUARDIAN nanodrone system, and a modified life-scanner which I believe could differentiate on a shipwide level, though not allow single identification. I do not know if the individuals who retrieved this equipment are here, or are in the morgue. I would ask that the drone operator, if alive, watch my quarters tonight... I will be sequestering myself there after leaving this room. As for the scanner-owner, similarly.. I only can hope that you believe me, and will at least leave me an anonymous note as to how many more <span style='color:red'>formtakers</span> remain. I will pass this information along, and possibly refine SEER's search parameters, if I wake up tomorrow."
He sighs, sitting down in his chair and leaning back, looking around the room. "Any questions should be answered. It's up for you to decide... and for me to take a walk, and see if I have an obolus for Charon."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(That said, I was the first one the Seer had scanned. I was told that <b>NemesisZero</b> and SwiftSpear were both wolves. I am not the seer, psychic, or guardian, but I'm hoping that the P and G are still alive. As I see it, the wolves had wolfed one that I was voting against, then rallied to defend me to cast themselves in a better light. I also suspect that one of the Wolves was wolfed <possibly even im_lost>, to add to the misdirection.)
If it was not already clear, my vote is for <b>NemesisZero</b>.
<!--QuoteBegin-Swiftspear+Apr 12 2005, 09:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Swiftspear @ Apr 12 2005, 09:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> @snidely: do you know what I'm comparing against when I say I have been less active this game? TWG2 I spent at least 4 hours a day playing the game, I had every plan and backup plan thought out to the tee, I had LONG lists of what I thought about everyone, I had nearly 50 pages of PM logs between other players. I have niether the time nor the energy to devote that much time towards this TWG, yet as far as I can tell I have still been one of the more active players in this game, and no one has come even close to matching my level of activity in TWG2. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Okay. Fair enough. I take back the comment about inactivity. The point still remians that you've voted for both wonedslacky and BadKarma - and I suspect it's to help get experienced players out of the way.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I have already adressed the im_lost issue with you. I explained quite at lenght my motivations for voting lost in the first place. I can understand you not agreeing with my motives or beliving them inadequate, but in your post you didn't awknowladge that I had even made statements in my defense to you. I have played more TWG with lost then any of you. He's a great player, and I'm really disapointed to that he is dead now knowing that he was definately human this game, we've lost a huge asset. But at that time some of the things he did just really rubbed my senses. For the record by the onset of last night I had talked with lost a fair bit and I was no longer feeling suspicious of him at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> IIRC, you said that he was being more quiet than usual, and you were one to judge because you know each other outside of the game.
Maybe he wasn't keeping in touch with you because he didn't trust you, though. Of course, it'll help if anyone can verify having PMs from him.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Being accused I can suck up and deal with, but pick and choose character smearing is more then I am ok with amounst humans. I have little choice here but to place my vote for <b>snidely</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I vote for you, you vote for me. That seems fair.
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Forgot to add, if any Psychic wants to e-mail me anonymously (assuming an unrelated email name from forum activity), I'm at talesin_batbat(at)hot mail_dot-com.
Seeing that I complained several times that no significant hints had been exposed so far, I'll be the last to take anybody's vote against myself personal, but I would like to make a few points clear. Of course, this is the second time I've been named as a suspect, so I can't really expect everyone to take this in an unbiased light: <ul><li>Talesin, I have defended you not only today, but on several occasions throughout the match, both on IRC and the forums. My previous post is in so far not really a prove of diversionary tactics to cloud Im_Lost's wolfing. It's simply part of my playing style to defend people who I don't harbor suspicions against.</li><li>Your behaviour has been suspicious to many a player throughout this match. I still believe you in that much of this is due to RL issues, but independently from that, your voting history was a tad risky for someone who knew he'd have to act as a seer's plant sooner or later. Had it not been for the intervention of myself and a few others, you could've easily been the lynching victim on day two (I think it was day two - will check the logs later).</li><li>This seer 'revealed' two very active players there. Granted, we can now start discussing Swiftspear's behaviour around Im Lost and my screwup with BadKarma, but I'd argue that most of us made some mistake by now, and I like to claim that my playing style did the humans more good than bad so far. In so far, this would be a nice smokescreen ploy, whether initiated by yourself or the person who contacted you.</li><li>It is day four. The seer you claim contact to had therefore four opportunities to scan a player. According to your own claims, he found out you were a human first. This bears the question - why did you wait until today to reveal not one, but <i>two</i> supposed wolves? You can't lynch more than one person a day. And don't tell me this was as an insurance policy for you. Everyone knows you're going to be the last on the wolves' list now <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--></li></ul> These are my points, I'm certain some will be able to add others, both in Talesin's and my favor. I for mine still stand by my points from before and won't vote in the heat of the moment.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
Since the only "suspected" person that anybody has given me any solid evidence on is Swiftspear and Talesin's story only confirms that, I'm going to have to believe him. One of you is going to get voted off today, the only question is which. Having seen the manner in which <b>Nemes Zero</b> defended himself, I'm confident in my vote against him.
I like your style Talesin. Curse you from stealing the limelight from my story though! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Cold NiTe+Apr 13 2005, 12:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold NiTe @ Apr 13 2005, 12:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So as a temporary vote, to prevent myself from acquiring a phantom vote against me, I am going to put myself down for <b>brute_force</b>. His sudden dissapearance has me raising my eyebrows. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm sorry, what? Sudden disappearance? I have voted every day, and I'm in IRC as often as I can (usually). I, personally, do not recall ever seeing you in the IRC channel.
Anyway, I'm going to hold my vote for now. Not sure if I want to believe Talesin...
Hmm, this is starting to get really interesting now.
On one hand, i would really like to believe you, Talesin. You have taken a risk in the hope that the guardian is still alive, but that is a fair one. One thing that irks me a bit though, why completely come out in the open? If i read that correctly, the seer has seered four people so far. You only mentioned three, so either the seer has withheld information from you or you yourself have information about someone else. If that person is a human, why not pm that person and spread the word around just the confirmed humans?
Coming out into the open may guarantee your safety (if the guardian is still alive, that is), so i assume that you came out in the open to set us against nemesiszero and for your own protection. If i was you, i would have waited and tried to spread the word around known humans. I am, however, not you and i really do not know who to trust.
You are a fairly inexperienced player, and that is a brilliant cover. How could such an inexperienced player come up with a great "i know the seer" gambit? Perhaps the other wolves have just used you as a scapegoat in their plan, or perhaps you have actually talked to the seer and are telling the truth. I really do not know which is which at the moment, so i will hold my vote until more evidence comes up.
PulseTo create, to create and escape.Join Date: 2002-08-29Member: 1248Members, Constellation
You're not making sense. <i>Of course</i> the seer and any confirmed humans are in contact with each other; the idea is to get the information out to <i>us</i>.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheMuffinMan+Apr 13 2005, 11:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheMuffinMan @ Apr 13 2005, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hmm, this is starting to get really interesting now.
On one hand, i would really like to believe you, Talesin. You have taken a risk in the hope that the guardian is still alive, but that is a fair one. One thing that irks me a bit though, why completely come out in the open? If i read that correctly, the seer has seered four people so far. You only mentioned three, so either the seer has withheld information from you or you yourself have information about someone else. If that person is a human, why not pm that person and spread the word around just the confirmed humans? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I guess the other guy was one of the wolf victims.
<!--QuoteBegin-Pulse+Apr 13 2005, 11:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Pulse @ Apr 13 2005, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->You're not making sense. <i>Of course</i> the seer and any confirmed humans are in contact with each other; the idea is to get the information out to <i>us</i>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Allow me to reitterate, as my above post was a miss-match of all different points.
Talesin has come into the open about it, but can we trust him? The "Guardian will protect me" is a good excuse for not being wolfed, while he could have easily made this entire thing up. The fact that he is a fairly inexperienced player only adds to this, as the wolves could use that inexperience to help conceal the ploy. I may have misread his post, but who is the fourth player that has been seered? Either he is keeping information from us or the seer is keeping information from him. This also begs the question, why did the seer choose to seer Talesin on the first night? Did he do anything to warrent suspicion or did the seer just act on a hunch? There are way too many variables to answer that question without talking to the seer. There are only four wolves in the game, so now would not be the ideal time to act out a fake seer gambit. For this reason alone, i think that Talesin is telling the truth.
On the other hand, he could be telling the truth and i could just be paranoid. I am inclined to believe Talesin over Nemesis, but i really don't know.
<!--QuoteBegin-Snidely+Apr 13 2005, 11:51 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Snidely @ Apr 13 2005, 11:51 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I guess the other guy was one of the wolf victims.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Fair point, i forgot about that
Snidely may have made me suspicous, but he didn't fake a seer contact on me. <b>Talesin</b> is a wolf. I really doubt that snidely is now since there would be no reason for the wolfs to make two shots at the same person in the same turn, but I am still not compleatly dismissing the possibility.
Talesin however has given you an either or proposition. Either me and nem are wolfs and we all lose the game if you don't kill us. Or he is a wolf and we all lose the game if you kill me and nem.
This is the perfect time for the wolfs to powerplay, and if the seer is still alive I urge you to counter this RIGHT NOW, because we have no other chance in hell here.
Comments
We might as well try to guess at the wolves’ motives, as it might help uncover a wolf, or at least point us in the right direction.
1) He was a fairly experienced player, so it would be wise to take him out of the game before he had a chance to use his experience against the wolves. The game is just starting to open up now, and it would be a hell of a lot easier for the wolves if none of us knew what we were doing <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
2) He was pretty anti-talesin, so perhaps the wolves wanted to set us off against him. It would be a pretty stupid idea for Talesin to wolf im_lost, as it would draw attention to himself irregardless of our views. Therefore, I think that while it is not safe to ignore Talesin completely in regards to suspicious behavior, he is less likely to be a wolf than some of the other players. It would probably be for the best if we did not turn on him and blame him for im_lost's death.
That is all that I can think of, really. We still have little to go on, so lets not go witch hunting.
Snidely, I just spotted your post, and I think that you have a point. Especially about the experienced players being killed bit and the changes in swifts view of im_lost. I'll refrain from voting at the moment, but I can definitely see your point.
Swiftspear - 1 (Snidely)
Swift's behaviour back during the vote of yore was certainly suspicious, but I'm not yet certain whether he is a wolf, not in the least because his issues with Lost were very public knowledge: It's day four and our band of players is shrinking so far that the wolves can stage a successful lynching on their own; we can't afford to assume them stupid anymore.
<i>If</i> Swift was a wolf, he'd've likely attacked someone like Sky or Snidley first to remove a comparably active and experienced player without of attracting additional suspicion. 'Course, these are multi-variable considerations and therefore potentially very faulty, but I'd prefer to lose to the wolves because I was too sharp than too thick for my own good <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'll repeat that I assume Talesin's behaviour to be inducted out of a volatile mix between his working schedule and his inexperience with this game. As above, I can see myself being very wrong here, but I'm going to mirror Muffin's remark here and note that I wouldn't jump to conclusions over Lost's voting behaviour from last round.
I burned my fingers on an early vote last round. The situation between myself and BK developed, though I am still convinced of my logic's soundness, partially out of spite, and I won't have this happen again to me. I'll therefore hold off on votes until at least wednesday evening and consider all points raised until then.
I'd just like to take a moment to say that I'm sorry to see im lost and BadKarma go. I hope they enjoyed the game up to this point at the least. As for im lost I am going to add that I think it's sad that we won't have his information skills to aid us anymore. This brings up a point on whether he was killed for that though.
=================
Okay on to the accusations and so on.
I've noticed that there has been a sudden drop in activity from a few players, ones that were reasonably active before. What this makes me think about however, is that somehow, they saw fit to make themselves less seen in the game. Now I can hardly be one to make accusations since I up and left for a bit, out of stupidity more than anything else.
But it's precisely because I made the same mistake that I knew better than to start crusading against them for what could be an honest mistake.
So as a temporary vote, to prevent myself from acquiring a phantom vote against me, I am going to put myself down for <b>brute_force</b>. His sudden dissapearance has me raising my eyebrows.
------------
At snidely;
You've played a quiet and paced game so far, so why the sudden change to "crusader mode"? I see why you say what you say, but I think I need to hear more on this matter before I can make any big moves.
You've played a quiet and paced game so far, so why the sudden change to "crusader mode"? I see why you say what you say, but I think I need to hear more on this matter before I can make any big moves. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have? I started suspecting Swift before today. I told you as much in a PM, remember? I quote: "If I was asked to say which three people I find most suspicious right now, I'd say Swift, then BadKarma, then Talesin." After that, I talked to Swift on IRC and he went down to second-equal. Now he's my chief suspect.
Apart from the first day, I've pretty much decided on who I find most suspicious, write my case against them, and place my vote. I've always placed my vote early on. As far as activity, well: I have <i>at least</i> one reply on <b>every single page</b> except for pages 8, 11 and 13.
As for why I haven't been wolfed - I'm green, and he's had little reason to think that I suspect him so much. I'm Lost would be the bigger threat. As for Sky, he must be around when I'm not, as I haven't seen that much of him.
brute force - 1 (Cold NiTe)
every single page - 1 (Snidely)
Current votes:
Swiftspear - 1 (Snidely)
brute force - 1 (Cold NiTe)
brute force - 1 (Cold NiTe)
every single page - 1 (Snidely) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha ha ha ha ha! (:
Also I have already adressed the im_lost issue with you. I explained quite at lenght my motivations for voting lost in the first place. I can understand you not agreeing with my motives or beliving them inadequate, but in your post you didn't awknowladge that I had even made statements in my defense to you. I have played more TWG with lost then any of you. He's a great player, and I'm really disapointed to that he is dead now knowing that he was definately human this game, we've lost a huge asset. But at that time some of the things he did just really rubbed my senses. For the record by the onset of last night I had talked with lost a fair bit and I was no longer feeling suspicious of him at all.
Being accused I can suck up and deal with, but pick and choose character smearing is more then I am ok with amounst humans. I have little choice here but to place my vote for <b>snidely</b>.
And we all killed off karma. Granted I was involved in that vote, but I see no reason to belive that he wasn't a wolf still now. Of all the lynch votes we have done so far I am most confident about that one. I am a little worried now that I am the wolfs next target in retrospect... but I really don't care. I still know almost nothing in this game, and if the wolfs kill me off, hopefully that saves someone more important from being wolfed.
You've played a quiet and paced game so far, so why the sudden change to "crusader mode"? I see why you say what you say, but I think I need to hear more on this matter before I can make any big moves. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have? I started suspecting Swift before today. I told you as much in a PM, remember? I quote: "If I was asked to say which three people I find most suspicious right now, I'd say Swift, then BadKarma, then Talesin." After that, I talked to Swift on IRC and he went down to second-equal. Now he's my chief suspect.
Apart from the first day, I've pretty much decided on who I find most suspicious, write my case against them, and place my vote. I've always placed my vote early on. As far as activity, well: I have <i>at least</i> one reply on <b>every single page</b> except for pages 8, 11 and 13.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, that makes way more sense.
I remember what we discussed, it's just I didn't expect you to come forward with it so soon. I'll definitely keep it in mind anyway. The only reason I called what you did crusading is that you started a rant, and you can tell it's a rant because it got swiftspear going... (God save us when that happens... <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->) But the thing is, going after the supposed enemy in sight may blind you to the enemy at your back. That's why I am going to keep my eyes open. While my convictions are also very similar to yours. (We agreed on, and continue to agree on, certain targets.) I simply do not play in such a way that allows me to jump into a thread be certain.
That could very well be a bad thing, because it limits my decisiveness, but I don't want to think that I'm pointing fingers at somebody, and letting someone else get away. You fight the good fight snidely, if you are confident in that decision then I will be confident in you, but I am going to let you be point man on this. If you figure something out that even I can't be skeptical about, then I'll probably bandwagon, despite how I hate doing that since my first failure in voting for slacky. (I'm dead certain it was, though I have no way of knowing for sure. Noob's intuition? I don't know.)
--------
The briefing room is lit, but several of the chairs are notably absent... their usual occupants no longer having use of them. <i>Talesin</i> sits at the head of the table, in full doctor's dress uniform. He coughs softly and stands as the last two filter in, taking their seats. "I'm sure you're all curious, but I'll ask for silence until I'm finished explaining my actions."
"Early after the initial failed blood tests, I took it upon myself to check the ship manifest. I discovered that among our cargo was a very specialized piece of equipment, destined for an upcoming research station. A Sensor Enhancing Emulsion Resonator. Normally, it would be useless... it's geared more toward analysis of subatomic masses." He looks around the room for any kind of recognition, before continuing.
"It struck me that anything able to mimic us to the degree that we've seen... and are seeing in this room, must either be one of us, controlled by the remote ship that is still in pursuit, or capable of altering itself to a degree surpassing the measurement of our scanning devices." He picks up a remote from the table, and taps a button, the presentation screen springing to life with a detailed sequence of data, and slowly-spiralling shapes.
"The long and short of it is, after applying the S.E.E.R. device to the spectroscopic analyzer, it DID come up with differences in some samples. And radical ones.. the nucleopeptides are completely off." He gestures, almost the entire list of scrolling values lighting up, boxed in red. The shapes are overlaid by another, and the non-matching segments of the first are similarly highlighted in red.
"The down side is, scanning each blood sample again with the higher resolution takes much longer than a simple bio-scan. Just under twenty hours, to be exact. I've already run five samples.. I'm hesitant to mention the others that came up as human, as it would put them at risk. Also, running Heartline's sample produced no unusual results. I can only hope that when... if we get to a station, they will be able to provide the analysis and treatment he requires."
He steps back and presses another button, the screen changing to show a pair of the displays, as well as personnel profiles to identify the subjects. "Now the interesting part. Two of the samples came back as non-human. <i><b>NemesisZero</b></i>, and <i>Swiftspear</i>."
He holds up a hand.. "I cannot confirm that the S.E.E.R. device was not tampered with, as once I discovered it, I kept it in my quarters, in a space I had reserved for less... legal medications. The door to my quarters had been tampered with, but the compartment seemed untouched."
After a long moment, he lets out a deep sigh, pinching the bridge of his nose. "Unfortunately, I'm only saying this because I do not hold hopes of SEER finishing its run through the samples in time to expunge the <span style='color:red'>formtakers</span>. I have left the device in the care of the first of the two confirmed-humans, as after having said this, I do not hold high hopes for my own survival. But I could not stand and bide my time... there have been too many lives lost already."
He looks up, eyes flicking to each face, meeting them for a few moments. "Also, during my search of the manifest, I also turned up two other pieces of useful equipment, that had been taken before I could secure them... a GUARDIAN nanodrone system, and a modified life-scanner which I believe could differentiate on a shipwide level, though not allow single identification. I do not know if the individuals who retrieved this equipment are here, or are in the morgue. I would ask that the drone operator, if alive, watch my quarters tonight... I will be sequestering myself there after leaving this room. As for the scanner-owner, similarly.. I only can hope that you believe me, and will at least leave me an anonymous note as to how many more <span style='color:red'>formtakers</span> remain. I will pass this information along, and possibly refine SEER's search parameters, if I wake up tomorrow."
He sighs, sitting down in his chair and leaning back, looking around the room. "Any questions should be answered. It's up for you to decide... and for me to take a walk, and see if I have an obolus for Charon."<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
(That said, I was the first one the Seer had scanned. I was told that <b>NemesisZero</b> and SwiftSpear were both wolves. I am not the seer, psychic, or guardian, but I'm hoping that the P and G are still alive. As I see it, the wolves had wolfed one that I was voting against, then rallied to defend me to cast themselves in a better light. I also suspect that one of the Wolves was wolfed <possibly even im_lost>, to add to the misdirection.)
If it was not already clear, my vote is for <b>NemesisZero</b>.
How long did it take you to write that? It's good.
Anyway I'd like to know the truth of all this. PM me with more details please, if you can.
My head is spinning right now, I'll say that much.
Okay. Fair enough. I take back the comment about inactivity. The point still remians that you've voted for both wonedslacky and BadKarma - and I suspect it's to help get experienced players out of the way.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Also I have already adressed the im_lost issue with you. I explained quite at lenght my motivations for voting lost in the first place. I can understand you not agreeing with my motives or beliving them inadequate, but in your post you didn't awknowladge that I had even made statements in my defense to you. I have played more TWG with lost then any of you. He's a great player, and I'm really disapointed to that he is dead now knowing that he was definately human this game, we've lost a huge asset. But at that time some of the things he did just really rubbed my senses. For the record by the onset of last night I had talked with lost a fair bit and I was no longer feeling suspicious of him at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IIRC, you said that he was being more quiet than usual, and you were one to judge because you know each other outside of the game.
Maybe he wasn't keeping in touch with you because he didn't trust you, though. Of course, it'll help if anyone can verify having PMs from him.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Being accused I can suck up and deal with, but pick and choose character smearing is more then I am ok with amounst humans. I have little choice here but to place my vote for <b>snidely</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I vote for you, you vote for me. That seems fair.
Seeing that I complained several times that no significant hints had been exposed so far, I'll be the last to take anybody's vote against myself personal, but I would like to make a few points clear. Of course, this is the second time I've been named as a suspect, so I can't really expect everyone to take this in an unbiased light:
<ul><li>Talesin, I have defended you not only today, but on several occasions throughout the match, both on IRC and the forums. My previous post is in so far not really a prove of diversionary tactics to cloud Im_Lost's wolfing. It's simply part of my playing style to defend people who I don't harbor suspicions against.</li><li>Your behaviour has been suspicious to many a player throughout this match. I still believe you in that much of this is due to RL issues, but independently from that, your voting history was a tad risky for someone who knew he'd have to act as a seer's plant sooner or later. Had it not been for the intervention of myself and a few others, you could've easily been the lynching victim on day two (I think it was day two - will check the logs later).</li><li>This seer 'revealed' two very active players there. Granted, we can now start discussing Swiftspear's behaviour around Im Lost and my screwup with BadKarma, but I'd argue that most of us made some mistake by now, and I like to claim that my playing style did the humans more good than bad so far. In so far, this would be a nice smokescreen ploy, whether initiated by yourself or the person who contacted you.</li><li>It is day four. The seer you claim contact to had therefore four opportunities to scan a player. According to your own claims, he found out you were a human first. This bears the question - why did you wait until today to reveal not one, but <i>two</i> supposed wolves? You can't lynch more than one person a day. And don't tell me this was as an insurance policy for you. Everyone knows you're going to be the last on the wolves' list now <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--></li></ul>
These are my points, I'm certain some will be able to add others, both in Talesin's and my favor. I for mine still stand by my points from before and won't vote in the heat of the moment.
Cold NiTe - 0.1
Hellfire3k - 0.1
Swiftspear - 1 (Snidely)
brute force - 1 (Cold NiTe)
Snidely - 1 (Swiftspear)
Nemesis Zero - 2 (Talesin, Pulse)
I like your style Talesin. Curse you from stealing the limelight from my story though! <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Different question: Since when do limes give off light?
I'm sorry, what? Sudden disappearance? I have voted every day, and I'm in IRC as often as I can (usually). I, personally, do not recall ever seeing you in the IRC channel.
Anyway, I'm going to hold my vote for now. Not sure if I want to believe Talesin...
On one hand, i would really like to believe you, Talesin. You have taken a risk in the hope that the guardian is still alive, but that is a fair one. One thing that irks me a bit though, why completely come out in the open? If i read that correctly, the seer has seered four people so far. You only mentioned three, so either the seer has withheld information from you or you yourself have information about someone else. If that person is a human, why not pm that person and spread the word around just the confirmed humans?
Coming out into the open may guarantee your safety (if the guardian is still alive, that is), so i assume that you came out in the open to set us against nemesiszero and for your own protection. If i was you, i would have waited and tried to spread the word around known humans. I am, however, not you and i really do not know who to trust.
You are a fairly inexperienced player, and that is a brilliant cover. How could such an inexperienced player come up with a great "i know the seer" gambit? Perhaps the other wolves have just used you as a scapegoat in their plan, or perhaps you have actually talked to the seer and are telling the truth. I really do not know which is which at the moment, so i will hold my vote until more evidence comes up.
On one hand, i would really like to believe you, Talesin. You have taken a risk in the hope that the guardian is still alive, but that is a fair one. One thing that irks me a bit though, why completely come out in the open? If i read that correctly, the seer has seered four people so far. You only mentioned three, so either the seer has withheld information from you or you yourself have information about someone else. If that person is a human, why not pm that person and spread the word around just the confirmed humans? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I guess the other guy was one of the wolf victims.
Allow me to reitterate, as my above post was a miss-match of all different points.
Talesin has come into the open about it, but can we trust him? The "Guardian will protect me" is a good excuse for not being wolfed, while he could have easily made this entire thing up. The fact that he is a fairly inexperienced player only adds to this, as the wolves could use that inexperience to help conceal the ploy. I may have misread his post, but who is the fourth player that has been seered? Either he is keeping information from us or the seer is keeping information from him. This also begs the question, why did the seer choose to seer Talesin on the first night? Did he do anything to warrent suspicion or did the seer just act on a hunch? There are way too many variables to answer that question without talking to the seer. There are only four wolves in the game, so now would not be the ideal time to act out a fake seer gambit. For this reason alone, i think that Talesin is telling the truth.
On the other hand, he could be telling the truth and i could just be paranoid. I am inclined to believe Talesin over Nemesis, but i really don't know.
Fair point, i forgot about that
Talesin however has given you an either or proposition. Either me and nem are wolfs and we all lose the game if you don't kill us. Or he is a wolf and we all lose the game if you kill me and nem.
This is the perfect time for the wolfs to powerplay, and if the seer is still alive I urge you to counter this RIGHT NOW, because we have no other chance in hell here.