Noob Mapper - Critique

hjdukhjduk Members, Constellation Join Date: 2005-03-03 Member: 43092Posts: 30
ns_gothic
Hi, im fairly new to mapping, but I was thinking about making a map for NS, to make things easier I might end up making this a CO map.
Could you crit on the style more than the layout ATM - the level design isnt finished but I wanted to start on the structural ideas to see if its practical / possible.
What do you think?

Cheers, hjd_uk.

Map, Wad and Env (Zip)

user posted image
user posted image
user posted image
user posted image

«1

Comments

  • SpacerSpacer Invented dogs Members Join Date: 2003-05-02 Member: 16008Posts: 1,527
    The hive looks really plain, but I'm loving that architecture in the marine start, even if it'll kill off gameplay. What about having a stronger green light come from that glass window? And perhaps put a couple of red lights around too.
  • Steel_TrollSteel_Troll Members Join Date: 2004-02-12 Member: 26455Posts: 550
    Wow. Probably wont play too well, but has lovely wow effect of most cathedrals...
    IPB Image
    (old)Sig removed. Flames prohibited. Period.
    QUOTE
    2. Sig Content. Use common sense here. I haven't seen any violations yet, so congratulations.
    Nem0 is congratulating me :)
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Posts: 6,132
    Arhcitecture and concept is unique and original. Granted it will not play well and the lighting is lacking, for what looks like a first attempt it is rather good.
  • OlmyOlmy Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Developer, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16142Posts: 1,452 Advanced user
    edited March 2005
    The first two shots remind me of HR Giger stuff, which is cool. I wasn't so impressed with the last two. Try using the style you used in the first two as a base for a map, i think it looks damn original.

    [edit] Also maybe work on the lighting, its quite plain at the moment.
  • SkySky Members Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Posts: 3,666
    Most definitely keep the style of the marines start. Very cool architecture there. The hive....it looks like you kinda got bored when doing the hive. Get rid of the water; there's no water in cathedrals. And see if you can get an infested texture that matches the 'normal' walls of ms.
    user posted image
    QUOTE (Snidely)
    I guess their slogan should be "with a Trojan, sex will last as long as the Trojan War, with only a fraction of the eroticism".
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    Nice architecture that... But the light needs more attention, for example make use of shadows near the top, and spots to light up areas you want to show of. Also that green light idea comming in from the window from Spacer would spice it up quite a lot. The hive needs more infestation...

    I can see it now!!! The divebombing skulk is back biggrin-fix.gif

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • AlcapwnAlcapwn "War is the science of destruction" - John Abbot Members Join Date: 2003-06-21 Member: 17590Posts: 1,965
    Wow, if your new, then thats pretty good. Lighting is a little bland though.
    *IMAGE BALEETED.* Sigs may not exceed 400x75 and/or 40KB. No exceptions. -Talesin
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    Personally, I'd double the size of the marine start for playability reasons. I'd keep the same shape though, its awesome. As others have said, work on your lighting. It looks like it would be great with some strong yellow/white lights around mid height, with red accents in the upper reaches, but that's just my idea for it.
  • BanzaiBanzai Members Join Date: 2004-10-19 Member: 32355Posts: 44
    Its Future-Gothic, awesome. Definetly keep the style, its very unique.
    Getting it to work with gameplay will be the hard part. I can't wait to see what
    you make once you get more experience.
    Thanks Bob
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Members Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Posts: 7,018
    edited March 2005
    This is an incredible start for a new mapper. Puts anything I have done so far to shame.

    Like said before, I would take out the hard green colors in the water and the window skybox and stick to the harsh dark greys and blacks, they really maintain the feel of the map.

    If you really want to use green lights I would use much darker shades then you are right now, other wize I would just stick with the harsh white and gray lights, they maintain the feel of the map much better.

    The green water just looks gross and totally out of the feel of the first picture. If you are determined to keep water I would use a dark or gray texture for it.

    One suggestion I would like to make, for the hive infestation, copy the feel of areas like refinary hive on bast or furnace on origin. Use harsh red colors to really hammer in the gothic riligeous mythological heaven VS hell environment. This map retains the feel of a futuristic structure simply with the all metal played walls. Ditch the green light panels, they just don't follow the flow and aren't nessicary to retain the futuristic feel and story location.

    [edit] looking at the screenshots some more, I have to agree with the comments others have made. Keep the feel but you are going to need to expand the dimentions of MS to make the gameplay aspect work.
    O_O image
  • AlignAlign Remain Calm Forum Moderators, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 5216Posts: 8,206 mod
    edited March 2005
    It's a really cool-looking custom map, but it's seriously not fitting the Ns atmosphere.
    The kind of map that could get a 10/10 rating from the dev team and still not be included as an official map...

    EDIT: Also, why is there a pit of infestation under the command chair?
  • CrispyCrispy Jaded GD Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-08-22 Member: 30793Posts: 3,225
    edited March 2005
    I'd make a new MS because I think the existing architecture is fine there for a right/left turning corridor in the map (with two alcoves on the outside edge of the corner).

    The gothic style gives it a very unique feel, and the extra vertical element could even be used to help Aliens if you made it super dark at the very top and graduating the light sensibly. By sensibly, I mean that the Aliens should have to be easily visible before they are within range to leap/blink at the Marines with lightning speed.

    An alternate option would be to have the top reasonably well-lit, with a grating upon which Aliens could go to heal/egg/or just Parasite (make sure that you can shoot through it and that the Aliens can be seen if you take the time to look up though).

    You could keep the style going and put in a bigger area with pillars to hide behind. It might be nice to put the CC in an apse and the two Armouries in the lectern/pulpit (although the latter might make them too inaccessible).

    If you are gonna give it a cathedral style, then check out this link to help you with the naming scheme for the map:

    http://www.kencollins.com/glossary/architecture.htm

    P.S. An undercroft would be pretty kewl. You could even have a shrine to some dead, great leader. A breakaway group of religious radicals who decided to bring back the teachings of the Bible have constructed this place as a sanctum for its teachings, but -uho- Khaara attaaaack!!!

    And here's where we cue the music biggrin-fix.gif

    [Edit]Technically the lectern and pulpit are not the same thing.
  • hjdukhjduk Members, Constellation Join Date: 2005-03-03 Member: 43092Posts: 30
    Hi, thanks for the replys everyone - lots of encouraging and useful comments.
    The hive roon was a quick doodle, just throwing blocks together - it was crap - no movement flow.

    Ive spent some time on it today, found the light_environment entity - nice - the shadows cast by the window support arces really come out well. The marines now have a room to call their own, not just a crossroads / T-junction.

    Whadya think?

    PS: Crispy - I was aiming towards a 'sepritist' kind of community as the late occupants of the facility / complex / building - not a religious sect but more of a notion that; *deep breath*- due to the huge expansion of humanity across the galaxy, the isolation of groups leads to a re-diversification of cultures. Every social group that exists would / could end up expanding & coalessing into entire planetary communities. So that bascially means lots of groups that exist now could end up being entire nations or cutlures in the NS universe. Hence NS_Goth.(heheh how about NS_vally_girl or NS_hiphop) Plus not every space colony would be pre-fab space-corps hab-module stuff.

    Now im thinking of it though I like the idea of a space-colony being made up of religous types - theyre the only ones feverent (naive?) enough to go into the unknown and set up on some unexplored world.
    (re minds me of the puritans sailing for hte new-world lol ) - No offense smile-fix.gif

    user posted image
    user posted image
  • cariocacarioca Members Join Date: 2003-09-02 Member: 20511Posts: 921
    confused-fix.gif thsi ms doesnt look like a sraight and small for a full place for ns structures and where is the res node?
    the light is very better the darkness give some nice feature to aliens hide but is so open u can aim that one easy but fade and lerks could be a pain , but onos cant run well in this close area making marines ms better.
    so in final i say the onos cant fight but marines can save their bse so a far long game will be thre in this fightining with fades and lerk flying maybe leapers but no onos will be very hard against 3 hives fades acid rocketing every stuff and lerks clouding all ms and blocked onos in the halls and skulkies falling in your heads.
  • Lt.RealnessLt.Realness Members Join Date: 2004-03-17 Member: 27379Posts: 740 Fully active user
    I don't really like the map. the rooms (if you can say rooms here) are way too big! the colors are also very monotone. it's not a logical place for the Kharaa to live tounge.gif

    but it's a funmap I think. If you like it, it's okay because it's your own map
    85.236.98.56:27015 #yo-clan | www.yoclan.com [Classic Only]
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Posts: 6,132
    edited March 2005
    [EDIT] Carioca is right, node should be added. Armory should not be there by default, that is only for combat maps.

    Looking alot better for gameplay. Lighting slightly improved, however the marine spawn should not be so dark. Also some slightly misaligned textures on the supports near the ceiling.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    I still think it could use some subtle accent lighting, but man, you've really got something going there!
  • BelgarionBelgarion Members Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 973Posts: 898
    yeah, those high ceilings really do it for me. the MS looks fantastic, but as others have pointed out, it's too dark for gameplay reasons. Keep working at it though. It would be a shame to let this fall by the wayside as most maps do.
    IPB Image
    ___My Photos___
    QUOTE(moultano @ Jul 15 2005, 02:29 PM)
    Man . . . . HL mapping FTL.

    QuestionalableContent, #520: Man, I'd be the worst praying mantis ever. "Oh sure, you can bite my head off without mating with me, I understand. You have ISSUES."
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The NetherlandsMembers, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Posts: 15,782 Advanced user
    edited March 2005
    QUOTE (Belgarion @ Mar 24 2005, 03:49 AM)
    yeah, those high ceilings really do it for me. the MS looks fantastic, but as others have pointed out, it's too dark for gameplay reasons. Keep working at it though. It would be a shame to let this fall by the wayside as most maps do.

    Posts like these always make me go o.O when I can see the screenshots just fine with no brightness issues at all (everything in windows at standart settings).

    On the crt's on college I'd probably would have trouble seeing the new screenshots though. Well that's it... I just need to get myself a crt, this tft is just way to good tounge.gif

    Guardian of the "magic cookiejar" 

    Retired forum Admin, I mostly used a flamethrower tank for disputes... Mostly

    Retired EUPT Deputy | Moral Support | Squad 5 Blue | 102 1HP Skulk escapes and counting

  • TheDestroyerTheDestroyer Tooobah Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-07-12 Member: 18123Posts: 737 Fully active user
    I like the architexture...it gives me that City 17 Citadel feel. The corners of the walls when climbing them, stopped me at times, but I was able to adapt.

    I felt somewhat depressed while playing it...I guess its the darkness of it. I LOVE that feeling...let those marines think that it is hopeless! Mwahahaha!

    Oh, and I was working with a simular lighting fixture. Yours looks better.
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Members Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Posts: 1,594
    the gothic look doesnt fit ns 100% but personally I like it very much, has the nice "warhammer 40k" feeling to it.

    for a beginer its a very nice piece of work. only thing I would remark here is the lightning. make it more colorful and people will love you biggrin-fix.gif

    IPB Image
    Give custom maps a chance!
  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Members Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Posts: 7,018
    Am I the only one who really doesn't like the skybox?
    O_O image
  • hjdukhjduk Members, Constellation Join Date: 2005-03-03 Member: 43092Posts: 30
    Thanks for the comments guys:

    The armoury in the example map is just temporary, this is WIP - nowhere near a beta release.
    The skybox was a quick temp one done to see if I could do one. Ill probably do another one later ( needs to be darker ?)
    For some reason skulks get stuck when trying to move from an overhang to a straigt vertical wall - ive posted a bug report about it.
    The lighting will come later, just trying to get the structures and spaces sorted out 1st.

    The place is going to be a start-up colony (on a titan like planet - ice and hydrocarbons) with some ice-water,frozen methane, excavation stuff going on in the cellars etc and there will be technology aparent when im finished.

    NS universe script:
    The facility produces lots of resources for trade with other systems and organisations - when contact was lost the TSA sent in the rhines - significant dollar value attached etc smile-fix.gif.
  • MythoNMythoN Members Join Date: 2005-03-20 Member: 45888Posts: 12
    *stares at pics* nerd-fix.gif Looking nice. smile-fix.gif Keep up the good work!! Seems like people can do some skulk divebombing on this map tounge.gif
    user posted image
    Dark Frontier is currently recruiting!! Join at our website!!
  • MerkabaMerkaba Digital Harmony Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Posts: 2,571
    Hurrah! (Merkaba cheers for unique architecture)
    "I am the woodsie lord, the Trickster of legend. If you be thirsty, flesh thing, drink of me. If you be hungry, then feed, for I am the honey-maker and the jacksberry." ~ The Trickster, Thief: The Dark Project (1998)
  • MerkabaMerkaba Digital Harmony Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-01-24 Member: 22Posts: 2,571
    hjduk, the getting stuck on the wall problem is nothing to do with Natural Selection, but rather the way you have constructed the wall (and the way the compile tools create clipnodes).

    To prevent that from happening, you should have the underhang part of the same brush as the wall above it. This will create a smooth flowing set of clipnodes which you can freely walk across. Compiling CSG with '-cliptype precise' might fix this as well, but I am not entirely sure about that.

    The same principle applies for -all- angled brushes like that, and can be noticed frequently in HL maps (getting caught on corners <90 degrees being the most obvious example).
    "I am the woodsie lord, the Trickster of legend. If you be thirsty, flesh thing, drink of me. If you be hungry, then feed, for I am the honey-maker and the jacksberry." ~ The Trickster, Thief: The Dark Project (1998)
  • hjdukhjduk Members, Constellation Join Date: 2005-03-03 Member: 43092Posts: 30
    Aha, thanks, Merkaba - ill try that.
  • c_omac_oma Members Join Date: 2004-06-20 Member: 29425Posts: 161
    first of all -- wow! i'm stunned! this is absolutely looking gorge-ous!

    i think this is exactly what ns needs at the moment, somehing new, fresh, different... i like it when every map needs a completely different strategy! jetpacks would be really good here, and fades have a lot of room to blink around. maybe you can add some more cover for the skulks here an there, maybe things like "confession boxes" and reliquary stands and whatnot.
    QUOTE (schkorpio)
    its ok if you are a little slow or have an extra chromosone and you like to touch yourself - i understand that you are a flipping retard :) but dont worry im sure all of the ns maps are wheel chair accessible
  • TatzTatz Members Join Date: 2004-09-05 Member: 31375Posts: 15
    omg!!11yar stole my idea!!111

    ...Yes i had the idea of an map like this...but i dropped it...(yours better wink-fix.gif )
    user posted image
  • MalevolentMalevolent Members Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18842Posts: 411
    The architecture is quite impressive. I think it looks awesome. I definitely hope you go all the way on this and optimize it.
Sign In or Register to comment.