Fades Are Too Strong!
Norseman
Join Date: 2005-02-27 Member: 42655Members
Join Date: 2005-02-27 Member: 42655Members
<div class="IPBDescription">They can't be killed</div> The manual says a fade are the shocktroopers of the Kharaa. That, I can understand. 3:1 KD ratio I could live with. But fades aren't shocktroopers. They flit around like gnats, attack, heal, attack, heal, etc. Common fade KD ratios are like 20:1. That's way too high, even for aliens. They need to die at least a little more often. However, I don't think lowering health is the way to do it. I think blink is being abused here. It lets fades attack and then run before anyone can fight back. I consider blink valuable for fades, as a way of shortening the distance between them and a marine rapidly, to keep the marine from getting 3,000 hits before the fade can even touch the guy. So, rather than letting the fade blink in, attack, blink out, heal, etc. I think there should be a 1-2 second delay after switching to blink before it can be used. That way, a fade can go around with blink selected, can rapidly close distance with any marines it encounters, but cannot attack and run. It would have get into the fight and kill off the marines or lose them before healing and blinking again. It's a shocktrooper, it shouldn't be acting like a pansy. It should attack and slaughter people, not hit and run.
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Comments
If a Fade *could* just slaughter a bunch of mariens on his own, he'd be way overpowered. however, if you take away his ability to get out of a fight quickly if he discovers he's losing, he'll die almost every single time, and will only be worth like 15 res.
Well good. You, unlike most people who use the fade, appear not to jump into a fight, kill a guy, dash around a corner, heal, jump back in, kill another guy, go back around the corner, rinse and repeat. This change should more or less only make you more effective (if we're factoring in damage and speeds boosts). N00bs and less than gosu players get better, exploiters get worse. Works for everyone.
and secondly: why, why do people keep posting these ideas. if you obviously cannot aim as a marine or play fade well, please refrain from making up suggestions to "fix" the fade. it is quite fixed as of now.
k, moving on.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That, I can understand. 3:1 KD ratio I could live with. But fades aren't shocktroopers. They flit around like gnats, attack, heal, attack, heal, etc. Common fade KD ratios are like 20:1.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
common fade ratios are around 2:1 to 5:1 in clan games (that does not however mean that they die like flies), fades simply cannot take on alone even 2-3 marines that both have upgraded shotties or better, at least if they see him coming.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->They need to die at least a little more often.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
they die often enough if you can aim. besides, 50 res is a huge investment. as is 40.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It should attack and slaughter people, not hit and run.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
the reason why aliens are hit-and-run units is because if they were made too strong and able to stay in combat for a long time, they would be totally overpowering in experienced hands.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->But you shouldn't be able to have a 20:1 ratio even when attacking groups of 8 or 9 'rines. That should kill you but right now it doesn't.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are so wrong on this...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well good. You, unlike most people who use the fade, appear not to jump into a fight, kill a guy, dash around a corner, heal, jump back in, kill another guy, go back around the corner, rinse and repeat. This change should more or less only make you more effective (if we're factoring in damage and speeds boosts). N00bs and less than gosu players get better, exploiters get worse. Works for everyone.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you misunderstood him. every good fade uses and has to use hit-and-run to be of any use. and no there cannot always be the whole team around you: skulks primary job is to keep marine rt's down, and that leaves 2 fades or a fade and a lerk to combat 5 marines. yes, fades need support to bring down large groups of marines with guns, but they also need to be able to work solo.
finally:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
This change should more or less only make you more effective (if we're factoring in damage and speeds boosts). <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you cannot make fades any more effective than they are now when used properly. well, maybe a little but even that is it's own conversation.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->N00bs and less than gosu players get better,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
what does this have to do with anything? i certainly didnt and still dont complain how unfair the fade is just because i cannot get kills with it / kill it. i practice, and so should anyone else who wants to get good at this game.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->exploiters get worse.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
again. who the heck are you calling exploiters? those who use blink? play the game as its made, not how you'd want it to be made.
i don tknow what your complaining about, fades are fine. as marines you jsut have to watch your back, or maybe *gasp* use tactics to kill the fade.
one such tactic is "hiding" marines. have 2 marines in a room and put one in a hiding spot to fool the fade into comming in. or my personal favorite hide an hmg in a group of marines. ive killed a good amount of fades that way.
its a fades worse nightmare 2 blink into a group, swipe himself a kill, blink out wounded, then c half the bloody marine team hunting him down like an angry villager mob...
lol happens too much with me...
but its true tho, an experienced fade player is way to dangerous, especially when theres 2 of them, attacking seperatly.. As a rine you dont even have time to heal or reload.
But thats the way its played i guess <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you counter-ambush the fade, or get JP and chase the fade you can kill them like that aswell.
Yes there are players who are very good with fade and are harder to kill, but that is just skill vs skill.
This man speaks the truth. Once you approach high skill levels you start to see (bad) fades getting solo'd by single LMG marines (even with weapon upgrades as low as guns 1), and good fades still get pretty beat up by individuals/2 marine groups.
What do scripts have to do with fading? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
BTW: you can use custom configs on mp_bs 1 servers... "exec autoexec.cfg" is not a script.
oh, and scripting makes fades much more deadly cause you can afford to press less buttons to switch weapons. in a firefight that's all that's required to either escape or get killed.
No it doesn't... how would letting you switch weapons with *less* buttons be an advantage? You'd have to hit a key more than once to select the weapon you want, and that would take time - time that will get you killed. This (or something like it) is really the best option for a fade config:
<!--c1--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>CODE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='CODE'><!--ec1-->bind "q" "slot1"
bind "mouse2" "slot2"
bind "mwheelup" "slot3"
bind "mwheeldown" "slot4"<!--c2--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--ec2-->
change to swipe, swipe, then switch back to blink
mouse 1 is always blink
if i hold on to mouse2 then i swipe until i let go.
this way i can hit mouse1 to blink at my target, tap mouse2 to swipe, then turn around and blink away.
it's a huge advantage in my opinion, without having to:
<span style='color:orange'>blink, quickwitch, swipe, quickswitch, blink</span>
i can:
<span style='color:orange'>blink, swipe, blink</span>
2 less keypresses is huge, but you can believe what you want.
same thing can be done with leap, but skulks are so weak late game it doesn't really matter much
it's also great for late game lerks, cause you can set one key to umbra and the other to bite. so you can umbra, bite, umbra and then fly the hell out of there.
Everyone is talking about the patch making marines better, but to be honest.... they made the shotgun worse, and aliens have passive regeneration.
if you play combat, the winning factor is determined by how many kills are on each team. if the marines have 200 kills and the aliens have 120, you can bet that the marines will win.
fade is not over-powered. <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manual/basic/damageCalculator.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/comm_manua...eCalculator.htm</a>
a fade with lvl 3carapace can be taken out by 41 level 1 HMG Bullets + 3 or so depending on regeneration. hmg fires 10 bullets per second, so thats 4 seconds to kill a fade with one hmg with no upgrades. assuming you dont have an aimhack, you can kill a fade in under 5-5.5 seconds. Now, if you had a teammate with another hmg, the fade will die a lot faster.
change to swipe, swipe, then switch back to blink
mouse 1 is always blink
if i hold on to mouse2 then i swipe until i let go.
this way i can hit mouse1 to blink at my target, tap mouse2 to swipe, then turn around and blink away.
it's a huge advantage in my opinion, without having to:
<span style='color:orange'>blink, quickwitch, swipe, quickswitch, blink</span>
i can:
<span style='color:orange'>blink, swipe, blink</span>
2 less keypresses is huge, but you can believe what you want.
same thing can be done with leap, but skulks are so weak late game it doesn't really matter much
it's also great for late game lerks, cause you can set one key to umbra and the other to bite. so you can umbra, bite, umbra and then fly the hell out of there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But how do those scripts make the fade better? Even with the config you decribed, that fade will still die when hit with the same ammount of bullets, will use just as much energy to blink, etc. etc. Your earlier descriptions made it seem like a fade with scripts would be better than a fade without them - and it won't.
The guy who owns with a fade on an mp_bs 0 server will still own it up on an mp_bs 1 server. The nub on an mp_bs 0 server will still be a nub on an mp_bs 1 server.
less buttons = more user friendly = more ownage
NS is not a game about K:D ratios, its about teamplay and each player finding their role and running with it.
Builder players will almost always be gorge and lerk, and thus will not make many kills but will have a great many assists, as they will umbra you, drop your chambers, build your hives, and heal you.
Fades are used to kill enemy players. They are frontline combat troops and as such will ALWAYS have a high K:D ratio if used properly. This is because they do not build or passively support other players.
To further your enjoyment of Natural Selection, stop looking at the K:D ratio and instead look at the column for scoring. Not all aliens are meant to make kills, and since the fade is designed as a killer, it will spend a lot of time having more kills than deaths.
If you have problems killing fades, try to block them from flying in and out of rooms. A cornered fade is easier to kill than a flying one. Stick to corridors or rooms that can be easily blocked off by two marines side by side. The fade will hit the marines, panic, and then get shot to small bits. Another excellent way to kill fades is to keep with your teammates. A fade can easily pick off a lone marine, but will suffer against several marines all covering each others backs.
Fades are most often used by more skilled players, and they have spent many days practicing their abilities. To beat them, you will also need to practice. Stick near your team, always be ready to block the exits, and only fire at the fade when you're going to hit - spray and pray won't work.
Norseman, the only thing that makes Fade worth ANYTHING is their ability to hit and run. Against marines that don't suck, that cooldown would make a Fade incapable of even competing with 2-3 LMGers. They'd blink in, kill one, and die in seconds to the LMGs. Taking on just one shotty would be extremely dangerous, and they would be absolutely powerless against hive rushes or just organized marines in general. It's fairly obvious that you don't have much experience playing a Fade if you don't realize how much you're asking for them to be gimped. Fades are not built to kill multiple marines in one attack, they're made to hit-and-run. I'm sorry that you're having a hard time coming to grips with this, but it isn't going to change. If you can't kill a Fade with 3 or more marines, then you and/or they need to learn how to effectively aim at Fades. Against just two decent marines with upgraded shotties, even the best Fade has to be extremely careful or they'll die in seconds.