Jps are fine, just learn to leap/bite. Blink, swipe. Get focus, and it will not be a proble. If you can't effectivly hit a jper. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS PURE. Get out of the way of other players.
Also holding of major choke points, will help too.
JPs are the only counter to onos aside from a mass room and lots of diff. levels...
I mean seriously, you're worried about an Onos getting hit by a JPer, which would take a short time to kill, but in co_ mode going heavy is useless because Onos can take you out of the game INSTANTLY, so it's a nice balance to have with the frustration of getting devoured.
<!--QuoteBegin-Yash+Feb 7 2005, 08:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yash @ Feb 7 2005, 08:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not being stompable is what make the JP the counter to onos. Use the lerks and fades to win. I vote no because it's just a biased nerf to marines, a huge one at that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bias nerf to rines? blah is it just me or are there not any rine nerfs?
You guys keep forgeting that the game is very well balanced. not pefect, but pretty well. All that is needed is very tiny tweaks. The aleins are getting some very nice buffs in b6.
Making it so JPs can be stomped would be a huge nerf to marines.
The onos is still something to be feared, Most of you keep expecting this Super Omega Bringer of Death and Destruction, The alien that is fear its self. THe one, the only, the ONOS OF DOOOM.
Sorry, but that would be very unbalanced. Your asking for an alein that can do everything, and take infinite damamge. Is way overpowered. and it would need to cost a good 300 rez.
The onos is ment to be a tank, which is a heavy Ground Assult Unit. Which it is. IT can easily take out turret farms, like its intended to do. and can easily decimate a heavy train provided you have 2 hives.
You can expect not to die uner light fire. 1-3 lmgers. Might die under medium fire. 1-3 shotguners. Will likely die under heavy fire 1-2 hmgs. and WILL die under Very heavy fire 2+Hmgs, +any thing else.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of Dooom+Feb 8 2005, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of Dooom @ Feb 8 2005, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Jps are fine, just learn to leap/bite. Blink, swipe. Get focus, and it will not be a proble. If you can't effectivly hit a jper. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS PURE. Get out of the way of other players.
Also holding of major choke points, will help too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> By the time you DO have focus, you'll have 3 hives, which mean it's already GG... Your point is not valid.
If anything jp cost less to upgrade, yet are more powerful than their more expensive HA counterparts... I don't see a reason in this. Some maps it is nearly impossible to do your so called "leap-bite" that will solve all problems. If you look at ns_nothing, vent and powersilo hives are jp haven, by the time your "do-it-all leap-bite skulks even get close to the jp, the sg or hmg will blow them away, and add 1-3 res bonus to their team as an insult...
If you read my earlier post, jps are more devastating than HAs. The reason is it takes numbers of HA to make it work, and even then, it is still risky. A lone jper is a force to be reckoned with that has mobility, power, and speed. Even a group of 5 jpers can scout the map and assassinate alien RTs leaving them vulnerable.
There is something wrong when an upgrade that is weaker costs more than one that is stronger. In many cases, JP > HA, therefore, they need a solid counter.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of Dooom+Feb 8 2005, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of Dooom @ Feb 8 2005, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry, but that would be very unbalanced. Your asking for an alein that can do everything, and take infinite damamge. Is way overpowered. and it would need to cost a good 300 rez.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was in effect in beta4a and was the game "VERY UNBALANCED?" Hell, people refer to beta4a as more balanced than beta5. You make exagerated generalizations by saying it would make an alien that can do everything and take infinite damage. You want to take out an onos, use numbers, a 30 res marine taking out a 75 res onos is what I call UNBALANCED.
lol how about nerfing the manuverability of jps? i've seen guys about stop and turn on a dime in mid air. thats insane can lerks do that? how about fades? LMAO you know what makes them even more powerful. having 80 armor at lv2 instead of 60 or something . roflz serber i play at does that gots laser mines and extra armour for jarheads
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Some maps it is nearly impossible to do your so called "leap-bite" that will solve all problems. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sometimes its the maps that create the most inbalance. Hives such as ns_nothing's Viaduct and ns_hera's Ventilation are too vast for skulks to have a chance. This open space also gives make fades almost unkillable vs none jetpack marines.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of Dooom+Feb 8 2005, 08:51 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of Dooom @ Feb 8 2005, 08:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You guys keep forgeting that the game is very well balanced. not pefect, but pretty well. All that is needed is very tiny tweaks. The aleins are getting some very nice buffs in b6.
Making it so JPs can be stomped would be a huge nerf to marines.
The onos is still something to be feared, Most of you keep expecting this Super Omega Bringer of Death and Destruction, The alien that is fear its self. THe one, the only, the ONOS OF DOOOM.
Sorry, but that would be very unbalanced. Your asking for an alein that can do everything, and take infinite damamge. Is way overpowered. and it would need to cost a good 300 rez.
The onos is ment to be a tank, which is a heavy Ground Assult Unit. Which it is. IT can easily take out turret farms, like its intended to do. and can easily decimate a heavy train provided you have 2 hives.
You can expect not to die uner light fire. 1-3 lmgers. Might die under medium fire. 1-3 shotguners. Will likely die under heavy fire 1-2 hmgs. and WILL die under Very heavy fire 2+Hmgs, +any thing else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> He has a point. The aliens are getting some very nice buffs, and lately, all I've seen are people asking for nerfs for the marines! Jeez people, think about the marines...
its not so much that we want stomp to work for jps, its just that there's NO counter to jps in a large room. at least with marines you have a chance to hit the blinking fade with your hitscan bullets. as aliens you don't really have a chance to hit a jp in a large room while he is circling and raining hmg bullets on you. the problem is major for aliens because most hives are in large rooms
CarnaxusREIGN OF CHAOS!co_sava (NS1)Join Date: 2004-10-01Member: 32036Members
edited February 2005
indeed. hive rooms are huge, and usually very open. we MUST fix that. someone make a tiny little hive room barely big enough for the hive and the rt, then have all the aliens spawn in a nearby room that has direct access to the hive room. How does that sound?
and Faskalia...with all the mods out there that add up to 15 extra levels to the game, yes, you can have a JP with resupply. In fact, I was once up against a lvl 40 marine with a JP, level 3 armor, level 3 weapons, resupply, MT, scan, a welder, mines, a grenade, and catalyst. So ur wrong there m8.
<!--QuoteBegin-Spawn of Chaos+Feb 9 2005, 06:44 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spawn of Chaos @ Feb 9 2005, 06:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> indeed. hive rooms are huge, and usually very open. we MUST fix that. someone make a tiny little hive room barely big enough for the hive and the rt, then have all the aliens spawn in a nearby room that has direct access to the hive room. How does that sound?
and Faskalia...with all the mods out there that add up to 15 extra levels to the game, yes, you can have a JP with resupply. In fact, I was once up against a lvl 40 marine with a JP, level 3 armor, level 3 weapons, resupply, MT, scan, a welder, mines, a grenade, and catalyst. So ur wrong there m8. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Unfortunately, that was only a plugin. He's right there m8...
To me the problem really isn't the jet pack its the hmg. A hmg with level 3 weapons can kill a 3 hive onos in 97 bullets in less than 10 seconds. In NS its rare to see an unupgraded hmg however a level 0 hmg can kill an onos in 125 shots. So it doesn't seem to me that the jet pack is overpowered more like the hmg is the problem.
Calculations gotten from <a href='http://manual.nsguides.org/basic/damageCalculator.htm' target='_blank'>here.</a>
<!--QuoteBegin-keep it Gangsta+Feb 1 2005, 09:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (keep it Gangsta @ Feb 1 2005, 09:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think its more then that,
I believe its not the jper is too strong, but the onos is too weak. Infact imo the current onos is lousy. Its bassically and over priced slow moving target dummy.
Bring back the 1.04 onos and make it 100 res again imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that the Onos is a little lopsided, myself. His ability as a killer depends entirely when he can become an onos.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Making it so JPs can be stomped would be a huge nerf to marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Jps should be stompable, if your too slow or stupid to fly over a stomp with a jetpack, youve got a serious problem.
Oh, I never played 1.04, but, onos only at 3rd hive is sad because its about the only way to unlock a hive thats been taken heavely by marines
<!--QuoteBegin-motsew+Feb 8 2005, 11:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (motsew @ Feb 8 2005, 11:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> imo onos on CO is WAY too powerful, especially with cara, regen, cele + redemp but in NS it is too weak.
Bring stompable JPs back ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Motsew or should i say Tom you only think onos are way too powerfull because me and ZerZ team up as a pair of onos and eat alot of marines wether they are HA or JP! It isn't because we are tooo powerfull its because we use team work and play distract the JP i.e i destract u while he comes up and kills u from behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> and as for HA well they are too slow to out run an onos tbh <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> and the marine team never seem to work together in CO!
I think they should put HA armour up and make them faster they may be more challanging even for skulks then! I know for a fact its easy for a skulk to take a HA down i have done it on every game of ns or co that i have played skulk with celerity caraprace can literally climb over and run circles round a HA!
No, onos in CO are overpowered. They're underpowered in classic. This is the result of Flayra living in happy fantasy land where there are happy mediums.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Feb 11 2005, 09:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Feb 11 2005, 09:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Naaa a lone JP can take down 2 Onos believe me ive seen it 100's of times especially as being a server owner on the game everyday.
On my server thats 2 level 15 Onos and these are skilled players by the way vs 1 skilled level 15 JP and the JP tore them apart!
1 Onos when 1 on 1 against anything should be no contest the winner especially in cramped areas!
JP is over powered in all honesty! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Don't complain about anything that's lvl15 being overpowered. Combat was balanced for lvls1-10, not lvl15.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Feb 11 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Feb 11 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even at level 10 why do u think i put it upto level 15 for?
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> IMO, that's why this topic was started.
<!--QuoteBegin-Yash+Feb 11 2005, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yash @ Feb 11 2005, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Feb 11 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Feb 11 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even at level 10 why do u think i put it upto level 15 for?
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> IMO, that's why this topic was started. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I made this from a NS game perspective. Personally, I would not give a ham about CO, since I rarely play it.
JP's cost less than HA's, yet have no effective counter. You say Focus Fades, I say DSM won't be made just for a counter to fades, when movement upgrades and teleporting to hives of DMS, is much more effective and preferred. And if it's the case of DMS with 3 hives... the game should be already over.
We look at HA. They CAN be countered. JPs allow rambos to do what they do best, do lots of damage by themselves. HA, however, let's the team work as a team effort, but even that is more costly as a smart commander would probably equip them with welders, and movement can be painfully slow. The Jp needs a sure counter, that is reliable, and NOT majorly dependent as focus fades.
Stomp effected Jps were in before beta5 and they did not unbalance the game as some people in this thread have said. JP's could still hover above a stomp and still get the kill. When you have a team of jps, it's still hard as an onos to get them, but near impossible to win in beta5. If you want to beat an onos with stomp that works on JPS, you do that in numbers or by staying in the air frequently. A skill should not be "handed" down for free.
So in conclusion: HA: - can be countered with devour - are more expensive (welders, HA upgrade cost) - move slower - encourage teamwork
JP: - have no reliable counter - are cheaper - give superior movement as well as dodging - encourage ramboing
It just doesn't make sense how something cheaper is overall, much more superior.
<!--QuoteBegin-SmoodCroozn+Feb 12 2005, 10:27 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SmoodCroozn @ Feb 12 2005, 10:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Yash+Feb 11 2005, 12:25 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yash @ Feb 11 2005, 12:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-TheJim+Feb 11 2005, 03:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheJim @ Feb 11 2005, 03:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Even at level 10 why do u think i put it upto level 15 for?
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> IMO, that's why this topic was started. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I made this from a NS game perspective. Personally, I would not give a ham about CO, since I rarely play it.
JP's cost less than HA's, yet have no effective counter. You say Focus Fades, I say DSM won't be made just for a counter to fades, when movement upgrades and teleporting to hives of DMS, is much more effective and preferred. And if it's the case of DMS with 3 hives... the game should be already over.
We look at HA. They CAN be countered. JPs allow rambos to do what they do best, do lots of damage by themselves. HA, however, let's the team work as a team effort, but even that is more costly as a smart commander would probably equip them with welders, and movement can be painfully slow. The Jp needs a sure counter, that is reliable, and NOT majorly dependent as focus fades.
Stomp effected Jps were in before beta5 and they did not unbalance the game as some people in this thread have said. JP's could still hover above a stomp and still get the kill. When you have a team of jps, it's still hard as an onos to get them, but near impossible to win in beta5. If you want to beat an onos with stomp that works on JPS, you do that in numbers or by staying in the air frequently. A skill should not be "handed" down for free.
So in conclusion: HA: - can be countered with devour - are more expensive (welders, HA upgrade cost) - move slower - encourage teamwork
JP: - have no reliable counter - are cheaper - give superior movement as well as dodging - encourage ramboing
It just doesn't make sense how something cheaper is overall, much more superior. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> no offence, but that gave me a good laugh, how is HA encouraging teamwork a bad thing as jps encouraging rambo a good? besides, a good team will know if the other team has jetpacks and counter it with OC's, spores, fades, and lerk bite. and heavies can easily own fades and lerks if thye stick together, the only good lerk is against HA is to umbra the hive, and most heavy rushes result in seiging anyway.... ha > jp by far, even against onos
<!--QuoteBegin-Spawn of Chaos+Feb 10 2005, 01:44 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spawn of Chaos @ Feb 10 2005, 01:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> indeed. hive rooms are huge, and usually very open. we MUST fix that. someone make a tiny little hive room barely big enough for the hive and the rt, then have all the aliens spawn in a nearby room that has direct access to the hive room. How does that sound?
and Faskalia...with all the mods out there that add up to 15 extra levels to the game, yes, you can have a JP with resupply. In fact, I was once up against a lvl 40 marine with a JP, level 3 armor, level 3 weapons, resupply, MT, scan, a welder, mines, a grenade, and catalyst. So ur wrong there m8. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well.. In the beginning there was NS then came CO and after CO those !?strange?! plugins with max lvl 50 and who knows what other stuff.
I hope you see the point. You cannot balance a game around a plugin that is created, after the original game. If the plugins are unbalanced it is not the task of the dev team to fix it, it is task of the plugin creator.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Naaa a lone JP can take down 2 Onos believe me ive seen it 100's of times especially as being a server owner on the game everyday.
On my server thats 2 level 15 Onos and these are skilled players by the way vs 1 skilled level 15 JP and the JP tore them apart!
1 Onos when 1 on 1 against anything should be no contest the winner especially in cramped areas!
JP is over powered in all honesty<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The onos must suck royaly, I could counter with my onos easily 2 jp/hmg of me, unless in a big room. Then onos shouldnt be there.
Jps should be stompable, thats it. Undevourable, yes maybe.
I will say it again, if a jper is too noob to jump over a stomp he deserves to die.
Oh and webs are the apocalypse for jps, almost no skill needed, and can own the best jps in the world. I personaly think its extremely lame, but if you wanna win badly...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ha > jp by far, even against onos<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha for half nubs, Jps for pros. I would bet anything that a team of jps that weld each other every hit is far more superior than the slow heavies.
Welding a heavy to max takes 2 seconds and a half ,about, and whitstands 8 bites. Welding a jp to max takes a half a second and witstands 4 bites.
This is always at 100 hp, so it can be less.
I would say, its about equal but the strategies and posibilities with jp are far superior but requires a bigger load of skill.
And against onos, sorry but, jp all the way and nothing can make me change my idea...
JPers were allready nearly unstompable, due to the jetpack which lets them avoid the stomps... no need to make them magically immune to stomp just because they have a jetpack on their backs, it makes no sense.
Perhaps change stomp from its current arbitary "you cannot move/shoot" to making the marines drop their currently selected weapons in a random direction an apreciable distance. It would also slow but not stop their movemnt for a second or two.
This would mean Jetpackers can just fly away from a stomp without dying, but they need to get their gun back. And it would make stomp more fun to play against, as the random inability to do anything is removed.
Also let marines look at their mini-map whille being devoured, it would make it a million times less boring.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lordy+Feb 12 2005, 09:15 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lordy @ Feb 12 2005, 09:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no offence, but that gave me a good laugh, how is HA encouraging teamwork a bad thing as jps encouraging rambo a good? besides, a good team will know if the other team has jetpacks and counter it with OC's, spores, fades, and lerk bite. and heavies can easily own fades and lerks if thye stick together, the only good lerk is against HA is to umbra the hive, and most heavy rushes result in seiging anyway.... ha > jp by far, even against onos <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not saying it's a bad thing. The fact is, it's much easier to hand out a few jps and hmgs to pros and have them eliminate key targets rather than equip a whole team with heavies/ha/welders. The potential of a jp can be devastating as a pro can be able to dodge many attacks and rarely ever land. A heavy armor player, no matter what skill level he is CAN be devoured by any decent Onos, if he is in a pack of few heavies.
Heavies require lots of players to truly be effective, jps can be effective by precision aiming in the hands of a skilled player. Heavies cost more and are slower, jps are the exact opposite.
It's not that teamwork is a bad thing, it's harder to have EVERYONE in your team coordinate and cooperate than a few skilled players.
If you still think HA>JP, I believe you need to play some decent onoses.
And I would definitely give JPs devour immunity, in exchange for stomp.
Comments
Also holding of major choke points, will help too.
Bring stompable JPs back !
I mean seriously, you're worried about an Onos getting hit by a JPer, which would take a short time to kill, but in co_ mode going heavy is useless because Onos can take you out of the game INSTANTLY, so it's a nice balance to have with the frustration of getting devoured.
Use the lerks and fades to win.
I vote no because it's just a biased nerf to marines, a huge one at that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bias nerf to rines? blah is it just me or are there not any rine nerfs?
Making it so JPs can be stomped would be a huge nerf to marines.
The onos is still something to be feared, Most of you keep expecting this Super Omega Bringer of Death and Destruction, The alien that is fear its self. THe one, the only, the ONOS OF DOOOM.
Sorry, but that would be very unbalanced. Your asking for an alein that can do everything, and take infinite damamge. Is way overpowered. and it would need to cost a good 300 rez.
The onos is ment to be a tank, which is a heavy Ground Assult Unit. Which it is. IT can easily take out turret farms, like its intended to do. and can easily decimate a heavy train provided you have 2 hives.
You can expect not to die uner light fire. 1-3 lmgers. Might die under medium fire. 1-3 shotguners. Will likely die under heavy fire 1-2 hmgs. and WILL die under Very heavy fire 2+Hmgs, +any thing else.
Also holding of major choke points, will help too. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
By the time you DO have focus, you'll have 3 hives, which mean it's already GG... Your point is not valid.
If anything jp cost less to upgrade, yet are more powerful than their more expensive HA counterparts... I don't see a reason in this. Some maps it is nearly impossible to do your so called "leap-bite" that will solve all problems. If you look at ns_nothing, vent and powersilo hives are jp haven, by the time your "do-it-all leap-bite skulks even get close to the jp, the sg or hmg will blow them away, and add 1-3 res bonus to their team as an insult...
If you read my earlier post, jps are more devastating than HAs. The reason is it takes numbers of HA to make it work, and even then, it is still risky. A lone jper is a force to be reckoned with that has mobility, power, and speed. Even a group of 5 jpers can scout the map and assassinate alien RTs leaving them vulnerable.
There is something wrong when an upgrade that is weaker costs more than one that is stronger. In many cases, JP > HA, therefore, they need a solid counter.
<!--QuoteBegin-Gecko God Of Dooom+Feb 8 2005, 02:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Gecko God Of Dooom @ Feb 8 2005, 02:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Sorry, but that would be very unbalanced. Your asking for an alein that can do everything, and take infinite damamge. Is way overpowered. and it would need to cost a good 300 rez.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was in effect in beta4a and was the game "VERY UNBALANCED?" Hell, people refer to beta4a as more balanced than beta5. You make exagerated generalizations by saying it would make an alien that can do everything and take infinite damage. You want to take out an onos, use numbers, a 30 res marine taking out a 75 res onos is what I call UNBALANCED.
Sometimes its the maps that create the most inbalance. Hives such as ns_nothing's Viaduct and ns_hera's Ventilation are too vast for skulks to have a chance. This open space also gives make fades almost unkillable vs none jetpack marines.
Making it so JPs can be stomped would be a huge nerf to marines.
The onos is still something to be feared, Most of you keep expecting this Super Omega Bringer of Death and Destruction, The alien that is fear its self. THe one, the only, the ONOS OF DOOOM.
Sorry, but that would be very unbalanced. Your asking for an alein that can do everything, and take infinite damamge. Is way overpowered. and it would need to cost a good 300 rez.
The onos is ment to be a tank, which is a heavy Ground Assult Unit. Which it is. IT can easily take out turret farms, like its intended to do. and can easily decimate a heavy train provided you have 2 hives.
You can expect not to die uner light fire. 1-3 lmgers. Might die under medium fire. 1-3 shotguners. Will likely die under heavy fire 1-2 hmgs. and WILL die under Very heavy fire 2+Hmgs, +any thing else. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He has a point.
The aliens are getting some very nice buffs, and lately,
all I've seen are people asking for nerfs for the marines!
Jeez people, think about the marines...
and Faskalia...with all the mods out there that add up to 15 extra levels to the game, yes, you can have a JP with resupply. In fact, I was once up against a lvl 40 marine with a JP, level 3 armor, level 3 weapons, resupply, MT, scan, a welder, mines, a grenade, and catalyst. So ur wrong there m8.
and Faskalia...with all the mods out there that add up to 15 extra levels to the game, yes, you can have a JP with resupply. In fact, I was once up against a lvl 40 marine with a JP, level 3 armor, level 3 weapons, resupply, MT, scan, a welder, mines, a grenade, and catalyst. So ur wrong there m8. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Unfortunately, that was only a plugin.
He's right there m8...
Calculations gotten from <a href='http://manual.nsguides.org/basic/damageCalculator.htm' target='_blank'>here.</a>
I believe its not the jper is too strong, but the onos is too weak. Infact imo the current onos is lousy. Its bassically and over priced slow moving target dummy.
Bring back the 1.04 onos and make it 100 res again imo. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think that the Onos is a little lopsided, myself. His ability as a killer depends entirely when he can become an onos.
Jps should be stompable, if your too slow or stupid to fly over a stomp with a jetpack, youve got a serious problem.
Oh, I never played 1.04, but, onos only at 3rd hive is sad because its about the only way to unlock a hive thats been taken heavely by marines
Bring stompable JPs back ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Motsew or should i say Tom you only think onos are way too powerfull because me and ZerZ team up as a pair of onos and eat alot of marines wether they are HA or JP! It isn't because we are tooo powerfull its because we use team work and play distract the JP i.e i destract u while he comes up and kills u from behind <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> and as for HA well they are too slow to out run an onos tbh <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> and the marine team never seem to work together in CO!
I think they should put HA armour up and make them faster they may be more challanging even for skulks then! I know for a fact its easy for a skulk to take a HA down i have done it on every game of ns or co that i have played skulk with celerity caraprace can literally climb over and run circles round a HA!
On my server thats 2 level 15 Onos and these are skilled players by the way vs 1 skilled level 15 JP and the JP tore them apart!
1 Onos when 1 on 1 against anything should be no contest the winner especially in cramped areas!
JP is over powered in all honesty!
On my server thats 2 level 15 Onos and these are skilled players by the way vs 1 skilled level 15 JP and the JP tore them apart!
1 Onos when 1 on 1 against anything should be no contest the winner especially in cramped areas!
JP is over powered in all honesty! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't complain about anything that's lvl15 being overpowered. Combat was balanced for lvls1-10, not lvl15.
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way!
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO, that's why this topic was started.
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO, that's why this topic was started. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I made this from a NS game perspective. Personally, I would not give a ham about CO, since I rarely play it.
JP's cost less than HA's, yet have no effective counter. You say Focus Fades, I say DSM won't be made just for a counter to fades, when movement upgrades and teleporting to hives of DMS, is much more effective and preferred. And if it's the case of DMS with 3 hives... the game should be already over.
We look at HA. They CAN be countered. JPs allow rambos to do what they do best, do lots of damage by themselves. HA, however, let's the team work as a team effort, but even that is more costly as a smart commander would probably equip them with welders, and movement can be painfully slow. The Jp needs a sure counter, that is reliable, and NOT majorly dependent as focus fades.
Stomp effected Jps were in before beta5 and they did not unbalance the game as some people in this thread have said. JP's could still hover above a stomp and still get the kill. When you have a team of jps, it's still hard as an onos to get them, but near impossible to win in beta5. If you want to beat an onos with stomp that works on JPS, you do that in numbers or by staying in the air frequently. A skill should not be "handed" down for free.
So in conclusion:
HA:
- can be countered with devour
- are more expensive (welders, HA upgrade cost)
- move slower
- encourage teamwork
JP:
- have no reliable counter
- are cheaper
- give superior movement as well as dodging
- encourage ramboing
It just doesn't make sense how something cheaper is overall, much more superior.
There are going to be alot of dead and complaining newbies if JPs are stompable.
Because the alien team actually may have a chance against JP if they work together!
Use common sense before u try to tell me not to post for such n such a reason!
Mind you half the people who i see on here are just like the people in CS complain and have a moan because things don't go their way! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
IMO, that's why this topic was started. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I made this from a NS game perspective. Personally, I would not give a ham about CO, since I rarely play it.
JP's cost less than HA's, yet have no effective counter. You say Focus Fades, I say DSM won't be made just for a counter to fades, when movement upgrades and teleporting to hives of DMS, is much more effective and preferred. And if it's the case of DMS with 3 hives... the game should be already over.
We look at HA. They CAN be countered. JPs allow rambos to do what they do best, do lots of damage by themselves. HA, however, let's the team work as a team effort, but even that is more costly as a smart commander would probably equip them with welders, and movement can be painfully slow. The Jp needs a sure counter, that is reliable, and NOT majorly dependent as focus fades.
Stomp effected Jps were in before beta5 and they did not unbalance the game as some people in this thread have said. JP's could still hover above a stomp and still get the kill. When you have a team of jps, it's still hard as an onos to get them, but near impossible to win in beta5. If you want to beat an onos with stomp that works on JPS, you do that in numbers or by staying in the air frequently. A skill should not be "handed" down for free.
So in conclusion:
HA:
- can be countered with devour
- are more expensive (welders, HA upgrade cost)
- move slower
- encourage teamwork
JP:
- have no reliable counter
- are cheaper
- give superior movement as well as dodging
- encourage ramboing
It just doesn't make sense how something cheaper is overall, much more superior. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
no offence, but that gave me a good laugh, how is HA encouraging teamwork a bad thing as jps encouraging rambo a good? besides, a good team will know if the other team has jetpacks and counter it with OC's, spores, fades, and lerk bite. and heavies can easily own fades and lerks if thye stick together, the only good lerk is against HA is to umbra the hive, and most heavy rushes result in seiging anyway.... ha > jp by far, even against onos
and Faskalia...with all the mods out there that add up to 15 extra levels to the game, yes, you can have a JP with resupply. In fact, I was once up against a lvl 40 marine with a JP, level 3 armor, level 3 weapons, resupply, MT, scan, a welder, mines, a grenade, and catalyst. So ur wrong there m8. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well..
In the beginning there was NS then came CO and after CO those !?strange?! plugins with max lvl 50 and who knows what other stuff.
I hope you see the point. You cannot balance a game around a plugin that is created, after the original game. If the plugins are unbalanced it is not the task of the dev team to fix it, it is task of the plugin creator.
On my server thats 2 level 15 Onos and these are skilled players by the way vs 1 skilled level 15 JP and the JP tore them apart!
1 Onos when 1 on 1 against anything should be no contest the winner especially in cramped areas!
JP is over powered in all honesty<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The onos must suck royaly, I could counter with my onos easily 2 jp/hmg of me, unless in a big room. Then onos shouldnt be there.
Jps should be stompable, thats it. Undevourable, yes maybe.
I will say it again, if a jper is too noob to jump over a stomp he deserves to die.
Oh and webs are the apocalypse for jps, almost no skill needed, and can own the best jps in the world. I personaly think its extremely lame, but if you wanna win badly...
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->ha > jp by far, even against onos<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ha for half nubs, Jps for pros. I would bet anything that a team of jps that weld each other every hit is far more superior than the slow heavies.
Welding a heavy to max takes 2 seconds and a half ,about, and whitstands 8 bites.
Welding a jp to max takes a half a second and witstands 4 bites.
This is always at 100 hp, so it can be less.
I would say, its about equal but the strategies and posibilities with jp are far superior but requires a bigger load of skill.
And against onos, sorry but, jp all the way and nothing can make me change my idea...
Perhaps change stomp from its current arbitary "you cannot move/shoot" to making the marines drop their currently selected weapons in a random direction an apreciable distance. It would also slow but not stop their movemnt for a second or two.
This would mean Jetpackers can just fly away from a stomp without dying, but they need to get their gun back. And it would make stomp more fun to play against, as the random inability to do anything is removed.
Also let marines look at their mini-map whille being devoured, it would make it a million times less boring.
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. The fact is, it's much easier to hand out a few jps and hmgs to pros and have them eliminate key targets rather than equip a whole team with heavies/ha/welders. The potential of a jp can be devastating as a pro can be able to dodge many attacks and rarely ever land. A heavy armor player, no matter what skill level he is CAN be devoured by any decent Onos, if he is in a pack of few heavies.
Heavies require lots of players to truly be effective, jps can be effective by precision aiming in the hands of a skilled player. Heavies cost more and are slower, jps are the exact opposite.
It's not that teamwork is a bad thing, it's harder to have EVERYONE in your team coordinate and cooperate than a few skilled players.
If you still think HA>JP, I believe you need to play some decent onoses.
And I would definitely give JPs devour immunity, in exchange for stomp.