Your question is imcomplete and limiting. Much like asking out of all the colors which is your favorite and you must answer red or blue. Or what's north of the north pole.
But trying to give it as much of a direct answer as I can: choices.
Fate is an illusionary abstract cause by the fifth universal force. Much like time is an abstract way they we are observing a phenomina called change.
I think I sorta explained it in the Jesus thread. It's not really something that is well understood but is universally common. Call it god, call it "the force," whatever. I call it Chi. It is one of the things I've explored and am trying to explain as I continue work on Xzianthia, talking about the fictional creation of mine in this context.
I imagine I will search to explain the fifth foruce for my whole life but never fully complete my explaination. It is one of those things were we know it exists but can't prove scientifically. It is simply one of the unknown aspects of existence. Despite that fate seems to be an unusual setup of occurances but I think it is one of those phenomina that can be explained by this fifth universal force.
Sounds like a cop-out for things you don't understand to me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sounds like a cop-out for things you don't understand to me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's exactly what it is... He basicly said that is what it is... What's your point?
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you can't talk about it, and it certianly doesn't mean you can't spend time attempting to gain an understanding of it.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you can't talk about it, and it certianly doesn't mean you can't spend time attempting to gain an understanding of it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I certainly didn't mean to infer censorship in any way, but this is pretty much my view of religion in general. I was raised in a Catholic home, went to catholic schools, and was forced to go to liturgies at home and school on a regular basis, but I never bought into religion. I'd rather try to explain something through experimentation than give responsibility to some unknown force because I can't comprehend it. Example: Creationism. God created the world in 7 days? I don't think so. Then again I don't exactly buy evolution either.
As for Choice vs. Fate, a man in my town was just murdered last night (first murder in 7 years! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). Was it his FATE to meet the wrong end of a handgun? Or did a man come to his door with a gun and he scuffled with him and ended up getting a couple slugs in him? I don't know, I wasn't there. But maybe he could have done something to avoid getting shot, and then, maybe he couldn't have. Still, I for one do not believe in destiny.
BTW, <b>x5</b>, I didn't mean offense in any way, everyone is most definitely entitled to their own view of how the world works. also, check your PM box.
By fate do you mean that something will happen? Or that something is planned to happen?
Yesterday I had the day off and I played on the computer, it happened, there is no possibility of anything else happening yesterday as its already happened. At some point tomorrow (the 20th of november 2004 for me) will become a yesterday and again, there will be no possibility of anything but what happened.
However I don't believe in a higher power that actually has control over what will happen tomorrow or that decided our yesterdays.
Do we have free will? Choice? No, we are biological computers and we will do as instructed (possibly the wrong choice of metaphors as you god types will say "Ah, but who instructed? Who programmed the computer?, no one did, its an analogy ok"). I agree with The Finch on his post (though not Pepe and while I agree with The Finches words that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with his entire viewpoint/philosophy as I might have read his post differently from how he originally meant).
Think of a ball on a slope, its going to roll down the slope and it doesnt have a choice in the matter. The world just happens to be a slope, the ball just happens to be there, nothing made either and the ball wasn't put up there. Where will it stop? We don't know, when will it get there? Can't tell that either as its in the future. Is its path already set before it gets there? Most definitely.
Sorry, its hard to explain my feelings on this topic in a coherent way, there aren't enough words in the dictionary for me, could also be the pounding drum&bass in my headphones too though I doubt it), it could also be the fact that I've <i>really</i> needed a wee for the last hour but have been too lazy too stand up... ok, I'm going now before my kidneys explode.
<!--QuoteBegin-CMEast+Nov 19 2004, 03:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CMEast @ Nov 19 2004, 03:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> By fate do you mean that something will happen? Or that something is planned to happen?
Yesterday I had the day off and I played on the computer, it happened, there is no possibility of anything else happening yesterday as its already happened. At some point tomorrow (the 20th of november 2004 for me) will become a yesterday and again, there will be no possibility of anything but what happened.
However I don't believe in a higher power that actually has control over what will happen tomorrow or that decided our yesterdays.
Do we have free will? Choice? No, we are biological computers and we will do as instructed (possibly the wrong choice of metaphors as you god types will say "Ah, but who instructed? Who programmed the computer?, no one did, its an analogy ok"). I agree with The Finch on his post (though not Pepe and while I agree with The Finches words that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with his entire viewpoint/philosophy as I might have read his post differently from how he originally meant).
Think of a ball on a slope, its going to roll down the slope and it doesnt have a choice in the matter. The world just happens to be a slope, the ball just happens to be there, nothing made either and the ball wasn't put up there. Where will it stop? We don't know, when will it get there? Can't tell that either as its in the future. Is its path already set before it gets there? Most definitely.
Sorry, its hard to explain my feelings on this topic in a coherent way, there aren't enough words in the dictionary for me, could also be the pounding drum&bass in my headphones too though I doubt it), it could also be the fact that I've <i>really</i> needed a wee for the last hour but have been too lazy too stand up... ok, I'm going now before my kidneys explode. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Computers have random number generators. If we are 'biological computers' then fate is false.
If indeed humans are capable of true random computation, then we are more synonomus to electrons on a slope then a balls on a slope. Sure we will follow down in our given path most of the time, but once in a while BAM, we just might go somewhere totally different, for no apparent reason in retrospect.
In all honesty, it is an issue of faith weather you belive in fate one way or another. I certainly can't prove that it is scientifically impossible, but I have shown that it isn't scientifically impossible either. And since when I come to a fifty/fifty issue like this, I always choose the belife I like better, I belive that there is no fixed fate, although I will ammend that it may only be disrupted at instances that fall far and few between.
I'm typing this message, it's a choice, because I have free will, no one is forcing me, I am choosing to. But after I finish this message and hit submit, then I have set my own fate in a way. Your fate is what you make it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I like to recite Terry Pratchet. I do not ave the original text in memory, so I interpret it in my words.
Fate always wins.
Because any event of significant influence on us is always declared to be our destiny. Mostly we call it differently, however. We call it good luck or bad luck. Both is nothing more that a series of coincidential events, leading to another event. Like "here an oil spot on the street....there a hole in the crash-barrier....
I have seen the future... There is no choice. Only fate.
Seriously. I can see into the future in my dreams. The things I see in my dreams actually happen in real life, but I can never change them. I always think the same thoughts, see the same sights and say the same words. There is no choice. Only fate.
Comments
But trying to give it as much of a direct answer as I can: choices.
Fate is an illusionary abstract cause by the fifth universal force. Much like time is an abstract way they we are observing a phenomina called change.
I imagine I will search to explain the fifth foruce for my whole life but never fully complete my explaination. It is one of those things were we know it exists but can't prove scientifically. It is simply one of the unknown aspects of existence. Despite that fate seems to be an unusual setup of occurances but I think it is one of those phenomina that can be explained by this fifth universal force.
Sounds like a cop-out for things you don't understand to me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Sounds like a cop-out for things you don't understand to me. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's exactly what it is... He basicly said that is what it is... What's your point?
Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean you can't talk about it, and it certianly doesn't mean you can't spend time attempting to gain an understanding of it.
I certainly didn't mean to infer censorship in any way, but this is pretty much my view of religion in general. I was raised in a Catholic home, went to catholic schools, and was forced to go to liturgies at home and school on a regular basis, but I never bought into religion. I'd rather try to explain something through experimentation than give responsibility to some unknown force because I can't comprehend it. Example: Creationism. God created the world in 7 days? I don't think so. Then again I don't exactly buy evolution either.
As for Choice vs. Fate, a man in my town was just murdered last night (first murder in 7 years! <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> ). Was it his FATE to meet the wrong end of a handgun? Or did a man come to his door with a gun and he scuffled with him and ended up getting a couple slugs in him? I don't know, I wasn't there. But maybe he could have done something to avoid getting shot, and then, maybe he couldn't have. Still, I for one do not believe in destiny.
BTW, <b>x5</b>, I didn't mean offense in any way, everyone is most definitely entitled to their own view of how the world works. also, check your PM box.
Yesterday I had the day off and I played on the computer, it happened, there is no possibility of anything else happening yesterday as its already happened. At some point tomorrow (the 20th of november 2004 for me) will become a yesterday and again, there will be no possibility of anything but what happened.
However I don't believe in a higher power that actually has control over what will happen tomorrow or that decided our yesterdays.
Do we have free will? Choice? No, we are biological computers and we will do as instructed (possibly the wrong choice of metaphors as you god types will say "Ah, but who instructed? Who programmed the computer?, no one did, its an analogy ok"). I agree with The Finch on his post (though not Pepe and while I agree with The Finches words that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with his entire viewpoint/philosophy as I might have read his post differently from how he originally meant).
Think of a ball on a slope, its going to roll down the slope and it doesnt have a choice in the matter. The world just happens to be a slope, the ball just happens to be there, nothing made either and the ball wasn't put up there. Where will it stop? We don't know, when will it get there? Can't tell that either as its in the future. Is its path already set before it gets there? Most definitely.
Sorry, its hard to explain my feelings on this topic in a coherent way, there aren't enough words in the dictionary for me, could also be the pounding drum&bass in my headphones too though I doubt it), it could also be the fact that I've <i>really</i> needed a wee for the last hour but have been too lazy too stand up... ok, I'm going now before my kidneys explode.
Yesterday I had the day off and I played on the computer, it happened, there is no possibility of anything else happening yesterday as its already happened. At some point tomorrow (the 20th of november 2004 for me) will become a yesterday and again, there will be no possibility of anything but what happened.
However I don't believe in a higher power that actually has control over what will happen tomorrow or that decided our yesterdays.
Do we have free will? Choice? No, we are biological computers and we will do as instructed (possibly the wrong choice of metaphors as you god types will say "Ah, but who instructed? Who programmed the computer?, no one did, its an analogy ok"). I agree with The Finch on his post (though not Pepe and while I agree with The Finches words that doesn't necessarily mean I agree with his entire viewpoint/philosophy as I might have read his post differently from how he originally meant).
Think of a ball on a slope, its going to roll down the slope and it doesnt have a choice in the matter. The world just happens to be a slope, the ball just happens to be there, nothing made either and the ball wasn't put up there. Where will it stop? We don't know, when will it get there? Can't tell that either as its in the future. Is its path already set before it gets there? Most definitely.
Sorry, its hard to explain my feelings on this topic in a coherent way, there aren't enough words in the dictionary for me, could also be the pounding drum&bass in my headphones too though I doubt it), it could also be the fact that I've <i>really</i> needed a wee for the last hour but have been too lazy too stand up... ok, I'm going now before my kidneys explode. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Computers have random number generators. If we are 'biological computers' then fate is false.
If indeed humans are capable of true random computation, then we are more synonomus to electrons on a slope then a balls on a slope. Sure we will follow down in our given path most of the time, but once in a while BAM, we just might go somewhere totally different, for no apparent reason in retrospect.
In all honesty, it is an issue of faith weather you belive in fate one way or another. I certainly can't prove that it is scientifically impossible, but I have shown that it isn't scientifically impossible either. And since when I come to a fifty/fifty issue like this, I always choose the belife I like better, I belive that there is no fixed fate, although I will ammend that it may only be disrupted at instances that fall far and few between.
I'm typing this message, it's a choice, because I have free will, no one is forcing me, I am choosing to. But after I finish this message and hit submit, then I have set my own fate in a way. Your fate is what you make it. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
~ DarkATi
Fate always wins.
Because any event of significant influence on us is always declared to be our destiny. Mostly we call it differently, however. We call it good luck or bad luck. Both is nothing more that a series of coincidential events, leading to another event. Like "here an oil spot on the street....there a hole in the crash-barrier....
Seriously. I can see into the future in my dreams. The things I see in my dreams actually happen in real life, but I can never change them. I always think the same thoughts, see the same sights and say the same words. There is no choice. Only fate.