<!--QuoteBegin-TychoCelchuuu+Nov 7 2004, 05:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TychoCelchuuu @ Nov 7 2004, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Nov 7 2004, 05:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Nov 7 2004, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Amerika needs more people like this. This country was built on the bones of those willing to give their lives for their ideals; not those who say that they have "too much to lose" and end up dealing with it. I salute this man - he was willing to give the ultimate sacrifice in order to institute change, or to show his undying support for that change.
Just as I respect Thich Quang Duc immensely, I respect this man. Andrew Veal? I'll remember the name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> The ultimate sacrifice in order to institute change? Selling the shotgun, donating the money, and then volunteering for some sort of organization like America Coming Together or Move On would have been a much more productive way for him to express his views. This is just a waste of a life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> MoveOn has thoroughly demonstrated itself to be useless <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Protest has always been the basic function for achieving change. Giving money to the poor, arming the homeless, and joining the Peace Corps never has successfully caused a regime change. Oftentimes death in such a brutal fashion is the only way to spark change.
Answer me this - if Andrew Veal joined America Coming Together, would he have made the <i>Times</i>? or any news at all? Now millions of people know about him; his goal is achieved.
<!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Nov 7 2004, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Nov 7 2004, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Weakest? It's not like he cares, because he is death. He is no longer, and if he ever were, then it was just an illusion.. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pardon? i did'nt understand that at all.
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
edited November 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-TheMuffinMan+Nov 7 2004, 11:19 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheMuffinMan @ Nov 7 2004, 11:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Epidemic+Nov 7 2004, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Nov 7 2004, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Weakest? It's not like he cares, because he is death. He is no longer, and if he ever were, then it was just an illusion.. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Pardon? i did'nt understand that at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> He were an assembly of materials, so what you defined as he, is death, and not just, oh, you look pale death, he's swooped off existence, but logically it wont matter, since his being did come from being refined by million years of evolution.
<!--QuoteBegin-rob6264+Nov 8 2004, 10:09 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rob6264 @ Nov 8 2004, 10:09 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> He ran away. He ran away from whatever he saw in Bush that scared him. This guy was no martyr. He was misguided, and chose to kill himself instead of making a stand against what he didn't believe in. It's as simple as that. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Quoted for truth. As an addon - this is merely natural selection in action. Those fittest to survive, survive. Those stupid enough to kill themselves over an election dont. However, I think this man probably had serious psychological problems - would I put a gun in my mouth if Kerry won? Doubt it.
The Tibetan monk analogy is complete garbage. The Tibetans were overrun by the Chinese, and then rather harshly suppressed. That was injustice - this is pure, sweet democracy that didnt go his way this time. The people have spoken.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin-coil+Nov 7 2004, 12:59 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 7 2004, 12:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Zig+Nov 7 2004, 04:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Zig @ Nov 7 2004, 04:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> from GEORGIA? what the f* connection does he have with NYC that he feels he can kill himself at ground zero. throw his body in the f*ing hudson. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Only certain people are "allowed" to shoot themselves at the WTC site?
Literally, *no one* is allowed to, because no one is allowed to be there in the first place. But to say he somehow doesn't deserve to shoot himself there, just because he's from Georgia? Terrorism is a nation-wide (hell, world-wide) issue, and GWB is *every* American's president. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> i don't feel that the fact he was in the same country as the 911 incident warrants him to litter ground zero with his corpse. he tries to make a martyr of himself, but what he's doing is polluting a memory with petty political angst.
<!--QuoteBegin-TheMuffinMan+Nov 7 2004, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TheMuffinMan @ Nov 7 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well, suicide is one of the weakest and most selfish things you can possibly do to yourself and to others(generally, there are obvious exceptions).
I am actually all for suicide though, as it is a form of Natural-Selection (albeit slightly different to the original idea) that weeds out the weaker people in life. I wont shed a tear for him, one less person from the shallow end of the gene pool that will ever have offspring. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yet people with moronic attitudes like yours will still exist to breed. If they were the shallow end of the pool, you're the scum that has to be skimmed off the surface every day.
<!--QuoteBegin-Marine01+Nov 7 2004, 05:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Nov 7 2004, 05:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The Tibetan monk analogy is complete garbage. The Tibetans were overrun by the Chinese, and then rather harshly suppressed. That was injustice - this is pure, sweet democracy that didnt go his way this time. The people have spoken. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Vietnamese monk.
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Nov 7 2004, 06:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Nov 7 2004, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yet people with moronic attitudes like yours will still exist to breed. If they were the shallow end of the pool, you're the scum that has to be skimmed off the surface every day. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh really, why don't you go start building a monument for him out of paper cups and a hamburger wrapper next to the Freedom tower. I highly doubt the space program will suffer now that poor Andrew is gone.
If this guy was so unstable over the election that he felt the need to take his own life, I'm glad he's gone, someone like that is a danger to society...suppose in a delusional state of mind he sees someone with a Bush04 bumper-sticker and decides to kill them first? I'm glad he decided to just kill himself.
I agree with rob. There are other ways to protest. I imagine a hunger strike or so would have netted him more attention.
It seems like a selfish action, committing suicide because the election didn't go your way. The public spoke, democrats, get over it, and fix your party, because no one is voting for it. It needs change.
edit: I mean come on, Bush is not the greatest president, and all you guys can come up with is <b><i>Kerry?!</b></i>
<!--QuoteBegin-reasa+Nov 7 2004, 11:28 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (reasa @ Nov 7 2004, 11:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Nov 7 2004, 06:21 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Nov 7 2004, 06:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yet people with moronic attitudes like yours will still exist to breed. If they were the shallow end of the pool, you're the scum that has to be skimmed off the surface every day. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh really, why don't you go start building a monument for him out of paper cups and a hamburger wrapper next to the Freedom tower. I highly doubt the space program will suffer now that poor Andrew is gone.
If this guy was so unstable over the election that he felt the need to take his own life, I'm glad he's gone, someone like that is a danger to society...suppose in a delusional state of mind he sees someone with a Bush04 bumper-sticker and decides to kill them first? I'm glad he decided to just kill himself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, i don't consider this guy a martyr nor do i agree with what he's done.
However, i'm not so cold as to just start claiming that the guy should've died and it's no loss to humanity. That and suicide is nothing to just be shrugged off as "survival of the fittest."
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
agree with esuna here..
if we're going to say that "survival of the fittest" applies to EVERY aspect of the human race in this day and age, then what of people with diseases and disorders... good people, who have no choice but to suffer their conditions? maybe this guy was a good guy... i think what he did was 100% wrong, but suicidal tendencies are almost universally rooted in psychological illness.
what he did was a stupid f*ing thing, but to say that he deserved to die because of his suicidal impulse is simply ignorant.
It doesn't matter if you apply natural selection to it, turn it upside down, inside out, and slap it 6 ways to sunday, the reality of suicide remains unchanged:
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out.
<!--QuoteBegin-rob6264+Nov 7 2004, 07:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rob6264 @ Nov 7 2004, 07:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It doesn't matter if you apply natural selection to it, turn it upside down, inside out, and slap it 6 ways to sunday, the reality of suicide remains unchanged:
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hit the nail on the head.
<!--QuoteBegin-rob6264+Nov 8 2004, 12:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rob6264 @ Nov 8 2004, 12:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It doesn't matter if you apply natural selection to it, turn it upside down, inside out, and slap it 6 ways to sunday, the reality of suicide remains unchanged:
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Sorry, i overlooked the fact that gathering up the courage to <i>kill yourself</i> is such an easy thing to do. I mean, it's not like humanity as a whole has a natural fear of death and it's not at all like <i>ending your own life</i> is such a hard thing to do!
Also, extra kudos for being understanding of other people's problems and not at all trivialising things like a human life.
Zig...I am Captain Planet!Join Date: 2002-10-23Member: 1576Members
<!--QuoteBegin-rob6264+Nov 7 2004, 04:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (rob6264 @ Nov 7 2004, 04:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It doesn't matter if you apply natural selection to it, turn it upside down, inside out, and slap it 6 ways to sunday, the reality of suicide remains unchanged:
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> a person with a horrible disease, in perpetual pain, costing their family a fortune in health care. suicide = coward's way out, or noble?
welp... all i have to say about this guy is hes an idiot and i hope everyone like him blast themselves in the head too.. i dont care where...
OR i suppose we could look at the reporters/family/whoever commented as being idiots... because they really dont know for sure WHY he did it... the only one who does is him and his nonexistant note... so i dont know who i hate on this subject... both of em i guess....
[Edit] Sorry, I was replying as Coil locked this. Don't think I'm trying to get a last word in. [/Edit]
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Nov 7 2004, 08:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Nov 7 2004, 08:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry, i overlooked the fact that gathering up the courage to <i>kill yourself</i> is such an easy thing to do. I mean, it's not like humanity as a whole has a natural fear of death and it's not at all like <i>ending your own life</i> is such a hard thing to do!
Also, extra kudos for being understanding of other people's problems and not at all trivialising things like a human life. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe (could be wrong) that the fear of dying is about number 4 in our country's list.
What's number 1? Public speaking. Some people would rather die that speak publicly. Interesting interlude.
Listen, I'm not saying people don't have problems. I'm not saying people who have lived their lives and are ready for death are cowards. Well I sort of was in a round-about way. I actually agree with what Zig said to some extent.
What I'm saying is "courage" conjured to kill yourself is useless. Once the dead is done, what's it worth? You're dead. Whatever was bugging you so much you decided to kill yourself is still there. You haven't changed a damned thing.
Of course, this is all a culture thing. In japan, on the other hand, suicide was at times considered noble, as I'm sure all of us geeks know. In my mind there's a distinction between suicide and sacrifice. Kamakazi was a sacrifice. What this man did was suicide.
Sucide is the pointless taking of your own life. It serves no one other than to relieve you of your obligations to others and the fears of your past.
Comments
Just as I respect Thich Quang Duc immensely, I respect this man. Andrew Veal? I'll remember the name. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The ultimate sacrifice in order to institute change? Selling the shotgun, donating the money, and then volunteering for some sort of organization like America Coming Together or Move On would have been a much more productive way for him to express his views. This is just a waste of a life.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
MoveOn has thoroughly demonstrated itself to be useless <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Protest has always been the basic function for achieving change. Giving money to the poor, arming the homeless, and joining the Peace Corps never has successfully caused a regime change. Oftentimes death in such a brutal fashion is the only way to spark change.
Answer me this - if Andrew Veal joined America Coming Together, would he have made the <i>Times</i>? or any news at all? Now millions of people know about him; his goal is achieved.
Pardon? i did'nt understand that at all.
Pardon? i did'nt understand that at all. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
He were an assembly of materials, so what you defined as he, is death, and not just, oh, you look pale death, he's swooped off existence, but logically it wont matter, since his being did come from being refined by million years of evolution.
Quoted for truth. As an addon - this is merely natural selection in action. Those fittest to survive, survive. Those stupid enough to kill themselves over an election dont. However, I think this man probably had serious psychological problems - would I put a gun in my mouth if Kerry won? Doubt it.
The Tibetan monk analogy is complete garbage. The Tibetans were overrun by the Chinese, and then rather harshly suppressed. That was injustice - this is pure, sweet democracy that didnt go his way this time. The people have spoken.
Oh god...there’s always something.
Only certain people are "allowed" to shoot themselves at the WTC site?
Literally, *no one* is allowed to, because no one is allowed to be there in the first place. But to say he somehow doesn't deserve to shoot himself there, just because he's from Georgia? Terrorism is a nation-wide (hell, world-wide) issue, and GWB is *every* American's president. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i don't feel that the fact he was in the same country as the 911 incident warrants him to litter ground zero with his corpse. he tries to make a martyr of himself, but what he's doing is polluting a memory with petty political angst.
I am actually all for suicide though, as it is a form of Natural-Selection (albeit slightly different to the original idea) that weeds out the weaker people in life. I wont shed a tear for him, one less person from the shallow end of the gene pool that will ever have offspring. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yet people with moronic attitudes like yours will still exist to breed. If they were the shallow end of the pool, you're the scum that has to be skimmed off the surface every day.
Vietnamese monk.
Oh really, why don't you go start building a monument for him out of paper cups and a hamburger wrapper next to the Freedom tower.
I highly doubt the space program will suffer now that poor Andrew is gone.
If this guy was so unstable over the election that he felt the need to take his own life, I'm glad he's gone, someone like that is a danger to society...suppose in a delusional state of mind he sees someone with a Bush04 bumper-sticker and decides to kill them first? I'm glad he decided to just kill himself.
Uhhhh... are you sure. I'm pretty confident that was a Tibetan monk.....
It seems like a selfish action, committing suicide because the election didn't go your way. The public spoke, democrats, get over it, and fix your party, because no one is voting for it. It needs change.
edit: I mean come on, Bush is not the greatest president, and all you guys can come up with is <b><i>Kerry?!</b></i>
Uhhhh... are you sure. I'm pretty confident that was a Tibetan monk..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
He's vietamese. I posted the link earlier.
<a href='http://www.uwec.edu/greider/BMRB/culture/student.work/hicksr/' target='_blank'>http://www.uwec.edu/greider/BMRB/culture/s...nt.work/hicksr/</a>
Oh really, why don't you go start building a monument for him out of paper cups and a hamburger wrapper next to the Freedom tower.
I highly doubt the space program will suffer now that poor Andrew is gone.
If this guy was so unstable over the election that he felt the need to take his own life, I'm glad he's gone, someone like that is a danger to society...suppose in a delusional state of mind he sees someone with a Bush04 bumper-sticker and decides to kill them first? I'm glad he decided to just kill himself. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, i don't consider this guy a martyr nor do i agree with what he's done.
However, i'm not so cold as to just start claiming that the guy should've died and it's no loss to humanity. That and suicide is nothing to just be shrugged off as "survival of the fittest."
if we're going to say that "survival of the fittest" applies to EVERY aspect of the human race in this day and age, then what of people with diseases and disorders... good people, who have no choice but to suffer their conditions? maybe this guy was a good guy... i think what he did was 100% wrong, but suicidal tendencies are almost universally rooted in psychological illness.
what he did was a stupid f*ing thing, but to say that he deserved to die because of his suicidal impulse is simply ignorant.
Uhhhh... are you sure. I'm pretty confident that was a Tibetan monk..... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
thich quang duc is most definitely a vietnamese name.
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out.
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hit the nail on the head.
Comparing this guy to the monk is an insult to the monk.
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sorry, i overlooked the fact that gathering up the courage to <i>kill yourself</i> is such an easy thing to do. I mean, it's not like humanity as a whole has a natural fear of death and it's not at all like <i>ending your own life</i> is such a hard thing to do!
Also, extra kudos for being understanding of other people's problems and not at all trivialising things like a human life.
Living is hard and dying is easy. Suicide is the coward's way out. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
a person with a horrible disease, in perpetual pain, costing their family a fortune in health care. suicide = coward's way out, or noble?
not every situation can be dismissed so easily.
OR i suppose we could look at the reporters/family/whoever commented as being idiots... because they really dont know for sure WHY he did it... the only one who does is him and his nonexistant note... so i dont know who i hate on this subject... both of em i guess....
i hope you all go die!!!
Grow up and discuss things civilly, people, or find another forum to spew on.
Sorry, I was replying as Coil locked this. Don't think I'm trying to get a last word in.
[/Edit]
<!--QuoteBegin-esuna+Nov 7 2004, 08:29 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Nov 7 2004, 08:29 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Sorry, i overlooked the fact that gathering up the courage to <i>kill yourself</i> is such an easy thing to do. I mean, it's not like humanity as a whole has a natural fear of death and it's not at all like <i>ending your own life</i> is such a hard thing to do!
Also, extra kudos for being understanding of other people's problems and not at all trivialising things like a human life. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe (could be wrong) that the fear of dying is about number 4 in our country's list.
What's number 1? Public speaking. Some people would rather die that speak publicly. Interesting interlude.
Listen, I'm not saying people don't have problems. I'm not saying people who have lived their lives and are ready for death are cowards. Well I sort of was in a round-about way. I actually agree with what Zig said to some extent.
What I'm saying is "courage" conjured to kill yourself is useless. Once the dead is done, what's it worth? You're dead. Whatever was bugging you so much you decided to kill yourself is still there. You haven't changed a damned thing.
Of course, this is all a culture thing. In japan, on the other hand, suicide was at times considered noble, as I'm sure all of us geeks know. In my mind there's a distinction between suicide and sacrifice. Kamakazi was a sacrifice. What this man did was suicide.
Sucide is the pointless taking of your own life. It serves no one other than to relieve you of your obligations to others and the fears of your past.