Uk Guardian Campaign, Affecting The Us Elections

KaliasKalias SuperskulkMembers Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2560Posts: 362
edited October 2004 in Discussions
"Operation Clark County"
Firstly, a link to satiate your website obsessive needs.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/...1326033,00.html

A quick rundown. American politics affect the whole world in many ways, the environment and foreign policy for example, the Guardian believes it's a bad thing that the rest of the world has little say in such things and has started an initiative to make some sort of difference.

Basically the newspaper is suggesting UK readers write to a US voter in a "swing state", a location where the votes are very close, if you're unfamiliar with American voting it goes like this, votes for a location are counted up, and whichever side has the most is declared the "winner" and given a point, it doesn't matter if they win with 95% or 51%. (I have major issues with these methods but that bit is a matter for another discussion.)

Basically, they suggest you write to "registered independent" (which I assume means they don't state a preference) voters in these states and try to convince them to vote for your preferred candidate. Information of note is that they don't suggest which side you should vote for, and only one letter will be recieved by each person (though I do find the idea of giving away peoples addresses mildly disturbing... even if "The data on which our system is based is publicly available").

In addition they suggest contacting american media in attempts to put stories into the public eye via newspapers, radio and so on.

Again, the story lists media from both sides for people to contact.

So, what are your views on this?
Keep it civil please, I've had quite my fill of insulting, xenophobic and just plain idiotic replies on the guardian's reactions page. Sheesh.

Oh... one last thing, the campaign site, just for further informative purposes. http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/
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Comments

  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Members Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Posts: 1,531 Fully active user
    If a UK newspaper wants to give money to the US Postal Service and send some fire starting material to warm me up this Winter, more power to 'em.

    I would further suggest that non-US entities that try to sway US citizens to vote in certain ways will face a double edged sword. They should prepare themselves for some intense scrutiny. Also, I have been hearing ads on local radio stations attempting to convince us that Saudi Arabia as a State, is our friend. They mention nothing about the upcoming election but I have to draw distinction that they've started playing within the last month.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited October 2004
    Man, the feedback is absolutely hilarious. biggrin-fix.gif

    QUOTE
    My dear, beloved Brits,
    I understand the Guardian is sponsoring a service where British citizens write to Americans to advise them on how to vote. Thank heavens! I was adrift in a sea of confusion and you are my beacon of hope!

    Feel free to respond to this email with your advice. Please keep in mind that I am something of an anglophile, so this is not confrontational. Please remember, too, that I am merely an American. That means I am not very bright. It means I have no culture or sense of history. It also means that I am barely literate, so please don't use big, fancy words.

    Set me straight, folks!
    Dayton, Ohio
  • The_FinchThe_Finch Members Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Posts: 661
    Ooh. Ill conceived notion on the Guardian's part.

    While US policy does affect other nations, it remains at a fundamental level, US policy. Even if the letters don't ask people to vote for a specific candidate, the hostility to the letters is understandable. Americans are fiercely independent on matters of sovereignty and letters from non-Americans telling us what to do, even in a polite and non-partisan way, would be regarded as a horrific intrusion. Considering that every American learns in grade school that the British tried to squash our freedoms prior to the American Revolution, I'd say the vitriol would be expected.

    As for the responses, it's a newspaper and they're going to pick the most sensational because it will sell papers. I think that the Guardian launched this campaign without really considering American views on national sovereignty and independence.

    Especially when some Limey bastard starts telling me what's what.
    QUOTE (X Stickman)
    America's Army taught me that I'm more likely to be shot in the back by my own teammates, then have my sexuality insulted as well as accusations made towards my mother's sex life. If it's a recruitment tool, it's a damn poor one.
  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    Wow, this is embarrassing.
    user posted image
    user posted image user posted image uuuuussssssssser posssssted iiimage

    USER POSTED IMAGE
  • StakhanovStakhanov Members Join Date: 2003-03-12 Member: 14448Posts: 2,179 Advanced user
    Haha , I've already seen the feedback page earlier today... thought about posting it...

    allcaps++
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    I think its a sign of my mental decline that things like this:
    QUOTE
    Consider this: stay out of American electoral politics. Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.
    United States

    this:
    QUOTE
    KEEP YOUR ****' LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, ****, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN'T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT'S WHY WE KICKED YOUR **** OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON'T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS ... TOUGH ****!
    PROUD AMERICAN VOTING FOR BUSH!

    and this:
    QUOTE
    THE AMERICAN TAXPAYERS HAVE SPENT TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS PROTECTING THE PEOPLES OF THE EU, AND WHAT DO WE GET IN RETURN. BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL, BETRAYAL. I HAVE BEEN TO YOUR COUNTRY, THE COUNTRY OF MY ANCESTORS, AND I KNOW WHY THEY LEFT.

    MAY YOU HAVE TO HAVE A TOOTH CAPPED. I UNDERSTAND IT TAKES AT LEAST 18 MONTHS FOR YOUR GREAT MEDICAL SERVICES TO GET AROUND TO YOU. HAVE A GREAT DAY.
    Harlan, Kentucky

    just make me laugh my **** off.

    I <3 the internet biggrin-fix.gif

    Someone needs to create the perfect word to describe people so rediculous that in their daily lives they are parodies of themselves. Troll just doesn't seem to cut it. It's not funny enough of a word. B00b maybe?

    Feed the trolls for fun and laughs!!!! biggrin-fix.gif
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (moultano @ Oct 18 2004, 01:06 PM)
    Someone needs to create the perfect word to describe people so rediculous that in their daily lives they are parodies of themselves. Troll just doesn't seem to cut it. It's not funny enough of a word. B00b maybe?

    Feed the trolls for fun and laughs!!!! biggrin-fix.gif

    Erm, while they could have articulated their points a bit better and the caps certainly don't help, I really don't see anything funny about them, however I find it hilarious that this British newspaper would try to pull stupid **** like this.

    Whether a person is voting for Bush or for Kerry, a letter from Britain telling them what?s what and who to vote for is most likely going to **** them off, I know if I get one I'm going to have a great laugh, then throw it away.


    And they say we're arrogant. Psh.
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (reasa @ Oct 18 2004, 04:19 PM)
    Erm, while they could have articulated their points a bit better and the caps certainly don't help, I really don't see anything funny about them,

    Awww come on now.

    QUOTE
    Unless you would like a company of US Navy Seals - Republican to a man - to descend upon the offices of the Guardian, bag the lot of you, and transport you to Guantanamo Bay, where you can share quarters with some lonely Taliban shepherd boys.

    That's a parody of itself.
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (moultano @ Oct 18 2004, 04:37 PM)
    Awww come on now.

    OK OK, that guy is just nuts. tounge.gif

    What I was trying to say is that I think their anger is 100% justified, the person from Dayton summed my feelings up nicely.
  • JimJim Members Join Date: 2002-11-26 Member: 9989Posts: 873
    It's fortunate that The Guardian is not representative of the British population.






    It's unfortunate that The Sun is tounge.gif
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    QUOTE (reasa @ Oct 18 2004, 04:41 PM)
    What I was trying to say is that I think their anger is 100% justified, the person from Dayton summed my feelings up nicely.

    While I don't think it will be very effective, what about it do you find offensive? We get mail all the time from various groups that want to influence how we vote. Why is this different? They clearly have a stake in the outcome of the election, so I don't see any problem with them trying to persuade voters.
  • WheeeeWheeee Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,262 Fully active user
    edited October 2004
    um, are these guys serious? and europe accuses us of *edit* trying to install */edit* puppet governments in the middle east :huge rolleyes:

    anyway, to all those crazy brits who don't support the US, bugger off, ya smegheads tounge.gif if ya don't like our policy, dethrone that Tony Blair git and put someone else who doesn't lick Bush's boots.
    QUOTE (EEK)
    Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (moultano @ Oct 18 2004, 05:08 PM)
    While I don't think it will be very effective, what about it do you find offensive? We get mail all the time from various groups that want to influence how we vote. Why is this different? They clearly have a stake in the outcome of the election, so I don't see any problem with them trying to persuade voters.

    Do we interfere with Britain’s elections? Imagine their reaction if the NY Times asked us all to send British voters info and opinions on why they should vote for the candidate we want them to vote for.

    I'm sure they would just love that.

    America is a sovereign nation and the leader of the world and deep down I think almost every American takes pride in this, and stuff like this is just going to bring up these feelings of pride. The result in most cases will be anger, resentment, mild amusement, the quiet death of any Brit who is dumb enough to send one of those out by SEAL Team 6. tounge.gif

    Really it's just common sense that most Americans won't like this
  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Members Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Posts: 3,104 Advanced user
    Why is this election so important? The article doesnt answer me..
    I saw a radscorpion the other day.
  • JamilJamil Members Join Date: 2002-11-02 Member: 4829Posts: 808
    I say go ahead and try to influence the UK in the next elections. I doubt most Americans could name the current leader of the opposition in the UK, or Canada for that matter. A demonstration of American jingo centrism. I'd strongly encourage American global awareness, but I'm confident there's no threat of that ever happening.
  • WheeeeWheeee Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,262 Fully active user
    that raises the question of whether the residents of their respective countries know the name of the opposition leader.
    QUOTE (EEK)
    Don't assume that because I said something it means I actually was thinking that the core of the sun was going to be replaced with hot dogs.
  • tbZBeAsttbZBeAst Members Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12755Posts: 920
    Whilst I agree this is possibly a redundant excercise, I think, were I a floating voter in an undecided state in the US, I'd be interested to see who the international community would prefer to see as the president.

    We're not attempting to invade, we're not taking away the ability to make up your own mind, we're using a different perspective and the freedom of information act to give an oppinion on something that will doubtless affect us all.
  • MausMaus Members Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Posts: 2,532
    One of the biggest problems with this is that if you asked the average Guardian reader about US domestic policy they wouldn't have a clue. I should know - I was one of them til I decided to learn more. You can't make an informed judgment based solely on one aspect of a policy, so judging Bush vs. Kerry on foreign policy alone is foolish.

    I love The Guardian, but I'm glad to see their little project here being cut to ribbons - it struck me as highly retarded when it was in G2 last week.
    user posted image
  • GrendelGrendel All that is fear... Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, NS2 Playtester Join Date: 2002-07-19 Member: 970Posts: 2,268
    The Guardian is read by moderately prosperous, left-wing people. This usually equates to teachers.

    As an adult, I have both lived with and have friends who are teachers. In fact, my ex-gf is a teacher. Their habit of spending much of their time lecturing people who are 12 years old generally goes to their head and the end up thinking that anyone can benefit from their accumulated wisdom.

    This kind of "initiative" is the result.

    (I know that this statement is a sweeping one and I have encountered several humble, self-aware and intelligent teachers in my time. But they formed the minority.)
    Playtest Lead (Retired)

    Natural Selection
  • StakhanovStakhanov Members Join Date: 2003-03-12 Member: 14448Posts: 2,179 Advanced user
    Well , at least the plea to vote carefully is justified , not everyone is aware of the dirty tricks devised to mess with votes in swing states...
  • tbZBeAsttbZBeAst Members Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12755Posts: 920
    Thats incredible.

    I can't think of anything more "un-American" than trying to prevent your countrymen exercising their right to vote.
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (Jamil @ Oct 18 2004, 10:14 PM)
    I say go ahead and try to influence the UK in the next elections. I doubt most Americans could name the current leader of the opposition in the UK, or Canada for that matter. A demonstration of American jingo centrism. I'd strongly encourage American global awareness, but I'm confident there's no threat of that ever happening.

    ...and Marine01 gets restricted?

    What in the world makes you think the average British citizen is prepared to give me information on my election? I frrget American R teh dummeors of the wordl. Al teh Eruopians aer aso muhc smartre thye muts tel em woo too voet fur.

    We don’t mess with Britain’s elections they shouldn’t mess with ours, it’s that simple.
  • ConfusedConfused Wait. What?Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12904Posts: 2,117 Advanced user
    As an american who is slightly left of center and is majoring in politics, i find this topic hilarious.

    It also is fairly typical of american pubic opinion at this point.

    there are 4 people in the entire country who havent made up their minds any one who says differnt is afraid the poll guy is trying to sell him long distance or is part of the vast left/right wing conspiricy.

    I will admit that the average american couldn't pick the Queen out of a lineup, even if she was wearing a crown.

    But, that doesnt limit their ability to watch fox news/ cnn/ the daily show and make informed statements about world events. And/or Threaten to kill/maim/destroy you/your country/your family pet.
  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    QUOTE (reasa @ Oct 18 2004, 07:33 PM)
    Do we interfere with Britain’s elections? Imagine their reaction if the NY Times asked us all to send British voters info and opinions on why they should vote for the candidate we want them to vote for.

    I'm sure they would just love that.

    Actually, most Brits would be a confused if Americans sent them letters about a guy called "Michael Howard". "Who is he?", they would ask, before turning back to page three of The Sun.
    user posted image
    user posted image user posted image uuuuussssssssser posssssted iiimage

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  • SwiftspearSwiftspear Custim tital Members Join Date: 2003-10-29 Member: 22097Posts: 7,018
    I wonder if any of my reverse psychology letters to Americans worked...
    O_O image
  • DukemDukem Banned Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15246Posts: 70
    edited October 2004
    Well, in response to numerous posts:

    a) No-one reads the Guardian - so don't worry

    b) Although the Sun is more widely read - I believe the heart of public opion in Britain is "The Daily Sport" -

    c) America couldn't influence UK elections even if they wanted to.. this is because:

    i ) Here, no-one thinks very highly of the opinions of 90% of americans
    ii ) Here there is a direct correlation between getting votes and winning elections - unlike in america
    iii ) Most people don't even bother to vote in the UK - so it would be a bit hit+miss
    iv) Effecting our elections would make no difference - both major parties are center-right(ish) and stand for the same things (more or less)
    v) UK politics make no difference to the rest of the world - at least we want to mess up your elections for the good of mankind smile-fix.gif

    Even if British people were to make every person in US vote against him - Bush would still win - basically because the US is the only country in the world where each gallon of oil also recieves the vote smile-fix.gif
    =========================
    FOR LAND, FOR POWER, VORSKIN
    =========================
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (Dukem @ Oct 21 2004, 11:15 AM)
    Here, no-one thinks very highly of the opinions of 90% of americans

    Even if British people were to make every person in US vote against him - Bush would still win - basically because the US is the only country in the world where each gallon of oil also recieves the vote smile-fix.gif

    Really 90% didn't know you guys we're so fat headed and arrogant, or maybe it's just you.


    Yes....Bush and his oil baron buddies are going to steal the election with a Halliburton funded insurrection. Now put your tin foil hat back on before the NSA steals your soul.
  • DukemDukem Banned Join Date: 2003-04-06 Member: 15246Posts: 70
    edited October 2004
    A friend of mine is from the US - he is one of the cleverest people I met recently. Quite a few americans also sound convincingly intelligent. But the reality is that these people probably come from highly educated backgrounds - um - and even that doesn't always seem to help. Here, getting on in the world it is all to do with cultural class and intelligence rather than wealth - so maybe it's just that the people in the spotlight seem more intelligent.

    Likewise - the american media personalities seem - well - overtly thick? A bit slow or a little contrived?

    And i am stating a fact when i say nobody listens to 90% of americans - America's gained a very unfavourable image over here recently.

    Don't want to start a fight though - if i meet an American who speaks good sense i'll be the first to congratulate him....
    =========================
    FOR LAND, FOR POWER, VORSKIN
    =========================
  • Special_KSpecial_K Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-04-19 Member: 15637Posts: 177
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (Dukem @ Oct 21 2004, 01:20 PM)
    Quite a few americans also sound convincingly intelligent.  But the reality is that these people probably come from highly educated backgrounds -  um - and even that doesn't always seem to help.

    This adds nothing to the discussion. You've offered no evidence to back up your generalizations and instead are just perpetuating sterotypes.

    On the actions of the Guardian:
    I don't have a problem with people outside the US lobbying for or supporting a particular candidate. Its always been done, overtly or covertly, in the US and around the world. The Guardian is fooling themselves if they think they'll have an impact, though.

    edited my bad spelling
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • Pepe_MuffassaPepe_Muffassa Members Join Date: 2003-01-17 Member: 12401Posts: 537
    Yeay, now we get junkmail from overseas!
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    BY THE PADDLES OF PONG WHAT DO MIDICLORIANS HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING?!
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