Well Played, Jon Stewart, Well Played.

DrSuredeathDrSuredeath Members Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8217Posts: 1,765
edited October 2004 in Discussions
Jon bitchslapped Crossfire.
http://www.ifilm.com/filmdetail?ifilmid=2652831

This is the most awesome thing.
Enough with the left extremist yelling at the right extremist show.

My recommended reading on the subject
The author was frustrated by how everything have to have two sides. Eg. Her colleague was invited to talk about holocaust at a local news program, on the condition that Holocaust denier be given and equal time.
Very good read.
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Comments

  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited October 2004
    That was truly awesome. Thank you.

    I'm growingly convinced that in enough time, Jon Stewart is going to be the most important man in politics.

    Edit: in case you don't want to sell your immortal soul to be able to watch it, Slashdot has bittorrent links .Slashdot

    As one Slashdotter put it,
    QUOTE

    It was like watching a man stomp on the heads of puppies with steel toed boots.

    Except the puppies were Carlson and Begala and the boots were Truth, so it was cool.
  • The_FinchThe_Finch Members Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8498Posts: 661
    I like Jon Stewart, not only as a comedian, but now as a social commentator.

    The thing is, he's right. The reason the Daily Show is so funny is because of rediculous talking heads like Carlson and Begala. Satire works by emphisizing the absurd, but the absurdities can't just be created out of thin air. There was a poll a little while ago that shows that people who watch the Daily Show are more educated and politically aware than other television viewers.

    Most political commentators are nothing more than spigots for party rhetoric. It was nice to see Stewart call them on it and refuse to play the game they wanted him to. Rather than work into their poor quality setups so he can make a funny, he said, "No. No. I'm not going to be your monkey." That's ballsy and I respect the hell out of him for it.
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  • PerditionPerdition Members Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29692Posts: 606
    Jon Stewart > Me

    That guys bowtie **** me off.
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  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    Total ownage, dear god I wish this man would run for office, he's the kind of person that America produces for leadership and change. Sadly I don't think he'll ever move beyond the Daily Show, which is too small for him.
  • PerditionPerdition Members Join Date: 2004-07-02 Member: 29692Posts: 606
    QUOTE (reasa @ Oct 16 2004, 12:25 PM)
    Total ownage, dear god I wish this man would run for office, he's the kind of person that America produces for leadership and change. Sadly I don't think he'll ever move beyond the Daily Show, which is too small for him.

    He obviously enjoys the Daily Show though, so maybe its best if he stays there. What if the man got into office, and hated it? He might lose his (amazing) sense of humor.
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  • HawkeyeHawkeye Members Join Date: 2002-10-31 Member: 1855Posts: 2,075 Advanced user
    QUOTE
    There was a poll a little while ago that shows that people who watch the Daily Show are more educated and politically aware than other television viewers.

    Well yes, I can't imagine a viewer that commonly watches cops or the simpsons would even have an interest in political issues.

    That's a bit like saying that people who read playboy magazines tend to be more sexual. I mean duh.
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  • Bo_SelectaBo_Selecta Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9374Posts: 358
    Finally, a guy with guts.
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  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Members Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Posts: 4,646
    I was flipping through the channels randomly and caught the whole thing, it was absolutely AMAZING. Watching 2 men in bad suits get absolutely owned by a dude who looks like he just got out of bed is always fun. And since when is "buttboy" acceptable language in a political discussion?
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  • ForlornForlorn Banned Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Posts: 6,495
    Eh? What's the point to making fun of the hosts, they only are the actors on the show, they don't actually run it... I guess he's more or less speaking to the audience.


    Even still, I don't think Jon Stewert is that smart, and in his little trouncing he did absolutely nothing other than name off random things that could be true...

    Not one example from a guy who watches crossfire everyday?

    Where's the rolleye's smilie when you need it?

    AH, found it

    user posted image

    For someone who says they don't ask the right type of questions when canadates are on the show, niether did he ask them anything good or provactive.

    Although, he did call them "bad" and called the right wing dude a "d ick"


    Ohh, impressive...

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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (Forlorn @ Oct 16 2004, 02:14 PM)
    Eh?  What's the point to making fun of the hosts, they only are the actors on the show, they don't actually run it... I guess he's more or less speaking to the audience.


    Even still, I don't think Jon Stewert is that smart, and in his little trouncing he did absolutely nothing other than name off random things that could be true...

    Not one example from a guy who watches crossfire everyday?

    Where's the rolleye's smilie when you need it?

    AH, found it

    For someone who says they don't ask the right type of questions when canadates are on the show, niether did he ask them anything good or provactive.

    Although, he did call them "bad" and called the right wing dude a "d ick"


    Ohh, impressive...

    Its not the thoroughness of his arguments that is impressive. Its the fact that he had the balls to say on public tv the thoughts that most of us have about national American media. For a half hour there, he broke the the unreality doublethink bubble that seems to saturate national news and brought things back down.
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Members Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Posts: 4,646
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (Forlorn @ Oct 16 2004, 02:14 PM)
    Eh?  What's the point to making fun of the hosts, they only are the actors on the show

    And that's exactly the point. It's all theater, there's no content there, yelling and screaming for 30 seconds per issue doesn't get any actual information across. The job of those two is not to inform the public or even to sway the public, their job is to entertain, which is not what they are telling the public they are doing. The Daily Show is at least honest when it tells you it's the fake news, Crossfire wants you to believe they're real news even when they're just actors trying to draw ratings.
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  • camO_ocamO_o Members Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28028Posts: 742
    I'll give that those were one of the most entertaining 30 minutes of television I've ever watched, but while Jon appeared to want to get a message through, I don't think he had a clear idea of what it was, nor how to deliver it in a way that the average viewer could understand. My question to Mr. Stewart is this: If we don't fight about it, what then, do we do?

    While anyone can argue (quite truthfully) that most debate across the media is shallow and tactless, the only alternative is to be spoonfed information through a blatantly biased media. The truth isn't something the average american has the resources or the time to discover, it's what the media tells us is true. While the media itself could use some housecleaning, no one has any clue how to do it, which brings us to the ultimate problem with Mr. Stewart's reasoning: The problem is obvious, but do you have a solution?

    To put it simply, if we don't argue about it, we'd have to have already agreed on it.
    QUOTE
    wach this vid and and telll me wa u think happen. this wil realy make u think....WERE DID THE PLANE GO??????? WAHT REALY HIT THE PINT?????
    >>>>>>>WHAT WAS IT?? <<<<<<<<
  • ForlornForlorn Banned Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Posts: 6,495
    QUOTE (moultano @ Oct 16 2004, 02:23 PM)
    QUOTE (Forlorn @ Oct 16 2004, 02:14 PM)
    Eh?  What's the point to making fun of the hosts, they only are the actors on the show, they don't actually run it... I guess he's more or less speaking to the audience.


    Even still, I don't think Jon Stewert is that smart, and in his little trouncing he did absolutely nothing other than name off random things that could be true...

    Not one example from a guy who watches crossfire everyday?

    Where's the rolleye's smilie when you need it?

    AH, found it

    For someone who says they don't ask the right type of questions when canadates are on the show, niether did he ask them anything good or provactive.

    Although, he did call them "bad" and called the right wing dude a "d ick"


    Ohh, impressive...

    Its not the thoroughness of his arguments that is impressive. Its the fact that he had the balls to say on public tv the thoughts that most of us have about national American media. For a half hour there, he broke the the unreality doublethink bubble that seems to saturate national news and brought things back down.

    Then maybe it wasn't impressive for me because I'm so used to standing outside of the crowd it doesn't even phase me anymore.
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  • camO_ocamO_o Members Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28028Posts: 742
    I'm tempted to disagree with Forlorn just for the sake of disagreeing with him, but I agree with him (your brain asplode).

    The guy had great delivery, and for 30 minute, he made the problem seeringly clear, but in a matter of weeks, we'd have all forgotten about it and would've returned to the haven of political debate we all love. In short: Balls, yes. Important? No.
    QUOTE
    wach this vid and and telll me wa u think happen. this wil realy make u think....WERE DID THE PLANE GO??????? WAHT REALY HIT THE PINT?????
    >>>>>>>WHAT WAS IT?? <<<<<<<<
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Members Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Posts: 4,646
    QUOTE (camO.o @ Oct 16 2004, 02:56 PM)
    To put it simply, if we don't argue about it, we'd have to have already agreed on it.

    There is a difference between an argument and a debate. In a debate there are rules of order, there are turns, people don't speak over each other, usually there is little yelling, both sides are given all the time needed to explain their positions. A debate is quite different from what we see in the media today, which is simply arguing. There can be a dialouge on issues without the tone devolving into name-calling and sound-byte spewing.
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  • camO_ocamO_o Members Join Date: 2004-04-19 Member: 28028Posts: 742
    edited October 2004
    So what are you proposing that these shows do? We've already placed enough emphasis on the problem, and I'd be interested in hearing some solutions.

    Be practical in this - keep in mind that shows that don't capture viewers don't air.
    QUOTE
    wach this vid and and telll me wa u think happen. this wil realy make u think....WERE DID THE PLANE GO??????? WAHT REALY HIT THE PINT?????
    >>>>>>>WHAT WAS IT?? <<<<<<<<
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Members Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Posts: 4,646
    I'm proposing that shows don't argue, they debate. It's very simple. Instead of allowing both sides to just take pot-shots at each other and spew the party line, we give them time to talk and explain their issues to the public. OF course that's never going to happen, since most people would rather be entertained than educated, but that doesn't make it right.
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  • ekentekent Members Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7801Posts: 781
    edited October 2004
    QUOTE (camO.o @ Oct 16 2004, 12:36 PM)
    So what are you proposing that these shows do? We've already placed enough emphasis on the problem, and I'd be interested in hearing some solutions.

    Be practical in this - keep in mind that shows that don't capture viewers don't air.

    Without having actually watched the "browbeating" yet (it's still downloading), I'd be willing to give a partial answer to that question.

    I think the issue, in the minds of corporate producers, isn't simply "more viewers more viewers," it's an issue of margin. An hour-long documentary going in depth on a topic, getting all the "sides," displaying concrete examples and anecdotes is likely quite expensive and at the very least timeconsuming. A roundtable talk show with a gaggle of blowhards is very simple to produce and not very expensive, i'd imagine, considering that the likely number of vacuous nincompoops willing to go on air and spew nonsense probably drives their market price down.

    A cleverly produced documentary that doesn't get viewers will not recoup its costs in advertising dollars. A roundtable will probably cover its costs in the first couple "breaks."
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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited October 2004
    I think what he's getting at is a deeper problem. The media certainly support it, but its a problem with American politics in general with the whole tone of our debate.

    When one side thinks candidate A is a saint and candidate B is satan, and the other side thinks the opposite, there can be no debate. There's nothing to talk about. The two sides are in completely different worlds.

    These worlds aren't remotely accurate reflections of reality. They are the result of our abysmal media coverage. Both sides of the political debate try to demonize eachother, which is natural, it's in their best interest. But if everything were working properly, the media would be there to reign this in. Instead, the media panders to it. Polical coverage has degenerated into either parroting the statements out of context of one candidate against the other, or covering polls. They simply aren't promoting the information we need to have a functioning democracy.

    Even more so than some of his words, Jon Stewart's whole posture and appearance reflected this. He looked like he had just woken up into a horrible dream that he could barely believe, stammering and pleading, and he perfectly conveyed the exasperation that many Americans feel about our political process.
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (moultano @ Oct 16 2004, 04:15 PM)
    Even more so than some of his words, Jon Stewart's whole posture and appearance reflected this. He looked like he had just woken up into a horrible dream that he could barely believe, stammering and pleading, and he perfectly conveyed the exasperation that many Americans feel about our political process.

    You’re absolutely right, his posture seemed to say more then anything about how he and many Americans feel.

    The last 15 seconds of that clip are so symbolic, and I didn't catch this until the 2nd time I watched it.

    Jon is sitting there, in the middle, with this incredibly exasperated look of disbelief on his face and the hosts go "from the left I'm ****** and from the right I'm ******"
    The background is two different colors for each side and Jon is smack dab in the middle...amazingly symbolic, you have to wonder if he realized this or it just worked out that way.
  • UltimaGeckoUltimaGecko hates endnotes Members Join Date: 2003-05-14 Member: 16320Posts: 2,467
    I get all my news from The Daily Show and the Dennis Miller Show...and occasionally Tough Crowd. There's no real reason to look at CNN (unless you're looking for a specific news element, like the main Presidential candidates debates). If you're too inept to be able to pull out the factual information yourself you probably shouldn't be watching television.


    That's why I never watch any 'political' shows. There's always one fat guy, one 'corporate' woman, some guy in glasses and someone else all just bantering on, talking over eachother while some 'host' tries half-heatedly to make it look like they're giving unbiased, useful information.

    Woot, civilized debate tounge.gif .
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  • Dr_LEE7Dr_LEE7 Banned Join Date: 2004-10-15 Member: 32265Posts: 73
    QUOTE (UltimaGecko @ Oct 16 2004, 08:54 PM)
    someone else all just bantering on, talking over eachother while some 'host' tries half-heatedly to make it look like they're giving unbiased, useful information.

    Woot, civilized debate tounge.gif .

    Yes I agree, especially on the O'Reily Factor, and Crossfire. Jon Stuart is right about how these "debates" on CNN don't even teach you anything, because it's not about issues at all.
    It's about one guy saying "I TOLD U SO" to another guy that is, by human nature, saying the same thing back. It is biased because it is teaching American Society that it doesn't matter if you have the right or wrong answer, you just have to sling mud as harder at the other guy, and have an extremely narcicistic point of view to win.
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  • EpidemicEpidemic Dark Force Gorge Members Join Date: 2003-06-29 Member: 17781Posts: 3,104 Advanced user
    It's jerry springer show mentality..

    I just finished reading the transcripts and from what I can tell, american television is in bad shape tounge.gif (though I already picked that one up from Buffy and "angel")
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  • booogerboooger Members Join Date: 2003-11-03 Member: 22274Posts: 223
    QUOTE (reasa @ Oct 16 2004, 04:41 PM)
    QUOTE (moultano @ Oct 16 2004, 04:15 PM)
    Even more so than some of his words, Jon Stewart's whole posture and appearance reflected this. He looked like he had just woken up into a horrible dream that he could barely believe, stammering and pleading, and he perfectly conveyed the exasperation that many Americans feel about our political process.

    You’re absolutely right, his posture seemed to say more then anything about how he and many Americans feel.

    The last 15 seconds of that clip are so symbolic, and I didn't catch this until the 2nd time I watched it.

    Jon is sitting there, in the middle, with this incredibly exasperated look of disbelief on his face and the hosts go "from the left I'm ****** and from the right I'm ******"
    The background is two different colors for each side and Jon is smack dab in the middle...amazingly symbolic, you have to wonder if he realized this or it just worked out that way.

    Going back and looking on it, you are right. That look and position is just... bleh, it's a shame people will probably end up forgetting it in the end.
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  • ThE_HeRoThE_HeRo Members Join Date: 2003-01-25 Member: 12723Posts: 1,599
    Thank you sir for the most entertaining 13 minutes and 30 seconds of my life, completely commerical free.
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