UZiEight inches of C4 between the legs.Join Date: 2003-02-20Member: 13767Members
edited September 2004
<!--QuoteBegin-CommunistWithAGun+Sep 25 2004, 01:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Sep 25 2004, 01:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hitler and bush aren't the same. <b>Hitler killed millions while bush merely kills the rights of millions. (Unless you are middle-class or higher,</b> then you like him) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Correction, This is a Staw Man Fallacy.
The Straw Man Fallacy
I have an arguement, concerning distorted version of (P): Therefore
I hope you are fooled into concluding I have an arguement concerning the real version of (P)
Quantitive Reasoning and Political Science for the win!
UZiEight inches of C4 between the legs.Join Date: 2003-02-20Member: 13767Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Recoup+Sep 25 2004, 02:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Recoup @ Sep 25 2004, 02:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Hitler killed Jews cuz he didn't like em. Bush doesnt.
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place.
You do that, because I wont be around to see it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-UZi+Sep 25 2004, 02:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (UZi @ Sep 25 2004, 02:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Ah I see. There were already unconstitutional laws in place, so a few more won't hurt right?
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bush tried to amend the constitution to ban g@y marriage. Bush and his cabinet tried to have partial birth abortion banned.
Both movements were later ruled unconstitutonal by the Supreme Court, and both movements involved civil rights. I won't even get into the grey areas that are his stance on the Patriot Act, Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, estate taxes, and offshore coorperations.
Oh yah forgot education, veteran programs, affirmitave action, criminal's rights, medical marijuna, stem cell research, etc. etc. etc.
Civil rights is probably Bush's weakest point, followed closely in my opinion by his economic plans, and the only reason he even has a chance this year is because homeland security is such a big issue.
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't have it both ways.
Using Hitler in ANY comparison will bring on ALL connotations of the Nazi rule. You can't just pick one out and then get all hissy when somebody points out all the NUMEROUS ways that the person in question is DIFFERENT from Hitler, just because they have one thing in common.
I'd just like to go ahead and call attention to the Universal National Service Act of 2003. <a href='http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s89.html' target='_blank'>Here's a link to it's contents</a> I encourage you all to read through it, if you don't remember what it covers. In short, it obligates all men and women ages 18-26 to serve in the armed forces for two years or "in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security."
...what the aforementioned bill doesn't mention is that <a href='http://www.taintedthoughts.com/exe.php?source=viewitem&id=2131' target='_blank'>"The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide."</a>
I'm sorry, but I'm not looking forward to choosing between fighting in Iraq (as most draftees will end up doing) and being obligated to restricting others' rights in the name of "homeland security".
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->However, both these bills were introduced not by legislators genuinely seeking to reinstate the draft, but by Democrats seeking to make an anti-war statement. The bills have since languished in committee, and the Selective Service maintains that the timing of ads to fill draft board positions was coincidental, part of a process of filling expired board positions that has been underway for several years:<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's funny to see how high people jump when you mention the word "draft." Polititians need jobs, too. Nobody is gonna commit the career-suicide of "The Draft."
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You can't have it both ways.
Using Hitler in ANY comparison will bring on ALL connotations of the Nazi rule. You can't just pick one out and then get all hissy when somebody points out all the NUMEROUS ways that the person in question is DIFFERENT from Hitler, just because they have one thing in common. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Thats exactly how I look at it. But in reality, using the term "his policies (lists a couple of issues) are like Hitler's" is nothing more then the use of fear on the uninformed.
The whole party and many people supported some of the policies such as a ban on **** marraige, me personally id wish that state control over marriage be ended since all it really means these days is a tax break.
<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+Sep 25 2004, 12:56 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Sep 25 2004, 12:56 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Look, I have seen so many people show so much animosity towards Bush because of what they see on TV and hear on the Radio and News. However, I bet you 99.9% of the people who say he is stupid havent even shaken the man's hand or even said hi to the prez. You gotta MEET someone before you can declare them stupid. They can do stupid THINGS, but that doesnt make them stupid as a whole. I've done stupid things, but I'm not stupid. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wha.....? Bush is the *President of the United States of America*. You, me, CWAG, Coil, Nemesis or Flayra all have a roughly 0% chance of ever being able to speak to Bush. In fact, 99.99999% of the WORLD's population is in the same boat. Claiming that we must undertake an action that the chances of completeing are mathmatically insignificant in order to form an opinion is just insane. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, its not impossible or such a huge trouble to at least meet, face to face, an acting president during campaign season. With some luck or planning, you'll probably get to shake his hand and be in a few fluff pictures - but I agree with you, thats no way to know anything about a person. Researching actions and their impact of a given political figure is a better indicator of who they are, then seeing if they've got the PR routine down.
For that matter, I shook Bush Sr.'s hand, and it didn't tell me a damn thing about him. I was hoping to gleam something interesting from it, but it was in fact a pretty dull experience.
So, boasting aside - what is the merit of that argument Rapier? The whole point here is judging by their actions, seeing as thats why you're electing them in the first place. DURRRRR.
I've got one problem with bush supporters. I just don't see whats there worth supporting. Another thing that bothers me that isn't a problem because well Im not the one doing it is the bandwagon effect. Some kid somewhere feels its his natural duty to go off and get run over by a mcdonalds delivery truck in the desert UNQUESTIONINGLY.
If one of the vehemently pro-bush people here would kindly compile a nice list of unbiased truths as to how he has helped the nation I would really appreciate it, because even though I watch the news and read msnbc.com I must be missing something.
Comments
Correction, This is a Staw Man Fallacy.
The Straw Man Fallacy
I have an arguement, concerning distorted version of (P): Therefore
I hope you are fooled into concluding I have an arguement concerning the real version of (P)
Quantitive Reasoning and Political Science for the win!
Simple...
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place.
Ah I see. There were already unconstitutional laws in place, so a few more won't hurt right?
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bush tried to amend the constitution to ban g@y marriage.
Bush and his cabinet tried to have partial birth abortion banned.
Both movements were later ruled unconstitutonal by the Supreme Court, and both movements involved civil rights. I won't even get into the grey areas that are his stance on the Patriot Act, Social Security, Medicare, Welfare, estate taxes, and offshore coorperations.
Oh yah forgot education, veteran programs, affirmitave action, criminal's rights, medical marijuna, stem cell research, etc. etc. etc.
Civil rights is probably Bush's weakest point, followed closely in my opinion by his economic plans, and the only reason he even has a chance this year is because homeland security is such a big issue.
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't have it both ways.
Using Hitler in ANY comparison will bring on ALL connotations of the Nazi rule. You can't just pick one out and then get all hissy when somebody points out all the NUMEROUS ways that the person in question is DIFFERENT from Hitler, just because they have one thing in common.
<a href='http://www.theorator.com/bills108/s89.html' target='_blank'>Here's a link to it's contents</a>
I encourage you all to read through it, if you don't remember what it covers. In short, it obligates all men and women ages 18-26 to serve in the armed forces for two years or "in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security."
...what the aforementioned bill doesn't mention is that <a href='http://www.taintedthoughts.com/exe.php?source=viewitem&id=2131' target='_blank'>"The pentagon has quietly begun a public campaign to fill all 10,350 draft board positions and 11,070 appeals board slots nationwide."</a>
I'm sorry, but I'm not looking forward to choosing between fighting in Iraq (as most draftees will end up doing) and being obligated to restricting others' rights in the name of "homeland security".
It's funny to see how high people jump when you mention the word "draft." Polititians need jobs, too. Nobody is gonna commit the career-suicide of "The Draft."
<a href='http://www.snopes.com/politics/military/draft.asp' target='_blank'>SNOPES'D</a>
Simple... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Im dicussing his statement on Bush taking away our rights. I could move onto the legality of the Patriot Act then Compair it to Laws Already in place. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You can't have it both ways.
Using Hitler in ANY comparison will bring on ALL connotations of the Nazi rule. You can't just pick one out and then get all hissy when somebody points out all the NUMEROUS ways that the person in question is DIFFERENT from Hitler, just because they have one thing in common. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thats exactly how I look at it. But in reality, using the term "his policies (lists a couple of issues) are like Hitler's" is nothing more then the use of fear on the uninformed.
The whole party and many people supported some of the policies such as a ban on **** marraige, me personally id wish that state control over marriage be ended since all it really means these days is a tax break.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Wha.....? Bush is the *President of the United States of America*. You, me, CWAG, Coil, Nemesis or Flayra all have a roughly 0% chance of ever being able to speak to Bush. In fact, 99.99999% of the WORLD's population is in the same boat. Claiming that we must undertake an action that the chances of completeing are mathmatically insignificant in order to form an opinion is just insane. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, its not impossible or such a huge trouble to at least meet, face to face, an acting president during campaign season. With some luck or planning, you'll probably get to shake his hand and be in a few fluff pictures - but I agree with you, thats no way to know anything about a person. Researching actions and their impact of a given political figure is a better indicator of who they are, then seeing if they've got the PR routine down.
For that matter, I shook Bush Sr.'s hand, and it didn't tell me a damn thing about him. I was hoping to gleam something interesting from it, but it was in fact a pretty dull experience.
So, boasting aside - what is the merit of that argument Rapier? The whole point here is judging by their actions, seeing as thats why you're electing them in the first place. DURRRRR.
If one of the vehemently pro-bush people here would kindly compile a nice list of unbiased truths as to how he has helped the nation I would really appreciate it, because even though I watch the news and read msnbc.com I must be missing something.
<span style='color:red'>***Locked.***</span>