@Ice olo yeah i usd to tlk liek dis innit but then i realised, perhaps after too much time, that i sounded like a complete cockbite, so i started typing in proper english, apart from quite a lot of spelling mistakes.
and heres one philisophical thing that always makes me think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you know how we see things,(not a trick question, with our eyes i mean) and how we hear things. Each one is kind of a world on its own. especially seeing things. in otherwords if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us. well what if theres another kind of perception? another sense that us humans dont have? perhaps this isnt philosophy so much as science. But it always makes me think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Ice-Phoenix+Sep 22 2004, 11:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice-Phoenix @ Sep 22 2004, 11:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> well this started off as a philospohy topic and has turned into my hunt to get my sig working .. haha , well i werent planning for that to happen ok.. from here forward were back to the philosphy subject <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: oh christ ok i'll do the thing red wizard said , this is my bad luck <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Right after you make your sig stop asking me to log in to Sharemation.net... Cause that is seriously driving me crazy.
Oh and starting threads like this one, and wanting it to be taken seriously in any way, you must do at least these two things:<ul><li>Firstly, you must type in a reasonable manner, so that people can take <b>YOU</b> seriously. Thus good grammer is not just important nettiquette in general, but is also much more important for people with something semi-serious to say.</li><li>You must also place said thread in the right place. This is the off-topic forums. The kind of thread you started, had it been done in the right way, would be most fitting in the DISCUSSION forums. Just click the link to Natural selection forums from the main site, then go down a few from OFF-TOPIC and you will see DISCUSSION.</li><li>Though I didn't say there was going to be a third, I realized that this too is an important point; In order to keep your thread from being distracted, sort out all your newbie issues BEFORE starting one. This whole Sig problem has obviously hit your thread like a ton of bricks and just serves to make it more off course. This is why it is sometimes frowned upon to start threads when you are relatively new to a forum, as you most definetly are. That normally doesn't count against you, but jumping into a random group of people like this doesn't work all that well in real life either. Thus it should be assumed that even if it works on the internet, it isn't the best way to go about things.</li></ul>
no, not psychic powers. its kinda hard to explain. like another 'reality' if you will. basically, if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us, well since we dont have this sense, we dont know about our surroundings in that environment. understand?
ok cold-nite i get you, well i didn't kno a sig could cause so much hassle, i mean u get it on a website and u link it in, hey presto its easy yet i had to pick some protected nonsense so i'll sort it out later..
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not techniqually true as u can hear whats happening and people wud tell u about it, some people have an innocence to them that apprently allows them to see make belive beings, so maybe only the innocence of a child for instance can see it and that is why kids have such large imaginations
<!--QuoteBegin-Jragon+Sep 22 2004, 11:50 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jragon @ Sep 22 2004, 11:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no, not psychic powers. its kinda hard to explain. like another 'reality' if you will. basically, if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us, well sicne we dont have this sense, we dont know about our surroundings in that environment. understand? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> But then you are talking about an extra sensory ability. But what kind would it be? We can't really even relate the 5 sensory abilities we have to anything else we know, let alone describe or begin to understand what another one would be or what it would be like to have another one.
Eyesight allows us to experience the world in a way unlike any other we know, or as you seem to be putting it "a whole new reality", though I believe that doesn't work because it is just a sensory perception that allows us to experience the one reality we live in in a different way from say hearing.
I wouldn't say that each sense is experiencing a seperate reality because well, it's not, it is simply sending more sensory information to our brains through a different avenue than its fellow senses. You hear and see things from the same reality, but each experience is wholly unlike the other. We "hear" the vibrations of particles that cause sound. We "see" light waves/particles bouncing off of objects and hitting our retina's various rods and cones. They both come from the same world. They are simply just a different experience.
I don't think we can even begin to comprehend what or how any more senses would be or work.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I wouldn't say that each sense is experiencing a seperate reality because well, it's not, it is simply sending more sensory information to our brains through a different avenue than its fellow senses. You hear and see things from the same reality, but each experience is wholly unlike the other. We "hear" the vibrations of particles that cause sound. We "see" light waves/particles bouncing off of objects and hitting our retina's various rods and cones. They both come from the same world. They are simply just a different experience.
I don't think we can even begin to comprehend what or how any more senses would be or work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree with cold-nite he has a good point and i have no idea what i was going off about compared to cold's reply i was once again on a tangent hahah, i make the topic and cant even follow it straight.
but reading cold's view, they dont exist as seprate realities as u put it because thats like having 2 tvs.. one for sound and one for sight, it wud just seem pointless
<!--QuoteBegin-Ice-Phoenix+Sep 22 2004, 09:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice-Phoenix @ Sep 22 2004, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes philosophy the lost art of trying to sound cool and mysterious... so like alot of people that wonder and the naswer ..not that there are rights and wrongs in philosophy... i'll just start the topic if anyone can be asked to join in a simple philosophical question which you've all heard before but well add more as we go along..ok...OK gd gd here we go
<b>If a tree falls in a forest but no ones around to hear it fall does it make a noise??</b>
well let the games begin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesnt make a noise, cause a noise is bassically how our brain interprets swinging air-collums.
I really dont think you guys get what i mean "people would tell you about it" i mean if NOONE could see. HUMANS cant see. then we wouldnt know about it. what i mean. yes i know i didnt phrase it too well. i dont mean a new reality. i mean a new...perception. if we couldnt see then we wouldnt know what "translucent" was. glass would seem like a rock if we touched it or something. i mean reality as in a way of realising things. think basically. if we couldnt hear, we wouldnt know what sound was. we wouldnt know what noise a car or a dog made. well perhaps tjeres a sense we dont have, and therefore dont know about. this is my point. what if ?
OH, that makes more sense .. well i suppose there would be no colour no shade, no vechilces, basically the world would forever be in the dark ages with no people to see, nothing would get built nothing invented, people would turn to cannabilism as hey they cant see what there eating .. infact if nobody could see then the world would just be a dirt pile of chaos
EDIT: i kno i cant spell vehicles cause i always forget how its spelt
it wouldnt be dark. what i mean is it wouldnt be anything. we wouldnt understand the concept of 'dark' because it was never light to us because we cant see. unsterstand?
even worse if we couldn't hear.... infact i doubt the human race would servive.. but yes what if... there would have to be somekind of "natural selection" shall we put it were humans would have to develop some kind of sense to survive
yea i understand infact based on what u said... there wouldn't even be a concept to create a concept
EDIT: well thats what i got from what u said because apart from eating anything and everything they can humans wud not have the intelligence to make concepts because theres no school so people would learn etc
we would drop drastically down the food chain i think. but anyway i digress. perhaps there is another "sensual realisation" (i cant find the words to describe it) like sight, but because we have never had it we dont miss it, cant name it, and never thought it was there.
like on the film daredevil were he cant see but his hearing is so good he can picture what things look like when it rains because he can hear each rain drop... kind of along those lines but without the hearing
well not really because he just uses what we know as ultrasound. this is really similar, i think you know what i mean now, its just i mean a completely different sense
ok i think we shud stop trying to explain it because you know what it is and i think i have a good gist of what your saying but i dont think theres a word that can exactly sum up what your saying
and i think people are sick of seeing my name too so ill shut up <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
"hey jragon" "yes?" " <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> IN YOUR FACE"
EpidemicDark Force GorgeJoin Date: 2003-06-29Member: 17781Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Faskalia+Sep 22 2004, 07:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Faskalia @ Sep 22 2004, 07:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Ice-Phoenix+Sep 22 2004, 09:16 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ice-Phoenix @ Sep 22 2004, 09:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> yes philosophy the lost art of trying to sound cool and mysterious... so like alot of people that wonder and the naswer ..not that there are rights and wrongs in philosophy... i'll just start the topic if anyone can be asked to join in a simple philosophical question which you've all heard before but well add more as we go along..ok...OK gd gd here we go
<b>If a tree falls in a forest but no ones around to hear it fall does it make a noise??</b>
well let the games begin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> It doesnt make a noise, cause a noise is bassically how our brain interprets swinging air-collums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, it kinda depends with what one means with noise? Is it a bad thing or is it just a sound? Does it have a wife and 3 kids waiting home to be fed? - Err off topic.. (whee!) Anyway, I guess you could call it potential noise, it exists in it's form and if a hearing organ comes into it's radius it will hear it, if noone hears it, it's still there with the potential noise!
it dont work like that... if a tree fell and made a noise with people to hear it ..its heard and is gone, if no1 is there to hear it and someone turns up a year later he wont then hear it.. because that kinda sounds like what u said
CplDavisI hunt the arctic SnonosJoin Date: 2003-01-09Member: 12097Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Sonic+Sep 22 2004, 10:20 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sonic @ Sep 22 2004, 10:20 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Peter: "hey, if one of you falls and there's nobody around to hear it, do you still make a sound?" Tree: "oh god yeah steve fell last week and he hasn't shut up since" Steve: " oh yeah stand there and **** about it but would any of you take the time to HELP ME!?!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> lol
kinda like the moron who tries to see if the light in the refrigerater is still on when you close the door. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is this an answer? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> is this a troll? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
I'm trying to be philisophical here!
<b>Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friends. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.</b>
Not especially philisophical, but funny. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is this an answer? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> is this a troll? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes.
I'm trying to be philisophical here!
<b>Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friends. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.</b>
Not especially philisophical, but funny. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Man you've made my enjoyment of this thread go up a lot.
Comments
but then i realised, perhaps after too much time, that i sounded like a complete cockbite, so i started typing in proper english, apart from quite a lot of spelling mistakes.
and heres one philisophical thing that always makes me think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
you know how we see things,(not a trick question, with our eyes i mean) and how we hear things. Each one is kind of a world on its own. especially seeing things. in otherwords if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us.
well what if theres another kind of perception? another sense that us humans dont have?
perhaps this isnt philosophy so much as science. But it always makes me think <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
EDIT: oh christ ok i'll do the thing red wizard said , this is my bad luck <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Right after you make your sig stop asking me to log in to Sharemation.net... Cause that is seriously driving me crazy.
Oh and starting threads like this one, and wanting it to be taken seriously in any way, you must do at least these two things:<ul><li>Firstly, you must type in a reasonable manner, so that people can take <b>YOU</b> seriously. Thus good grammer is not just important nettiquette in general, but is also much more important for people with something semi-serious to say.</li><li>You must also place said thread in the right place. This is the off-topic forums. The kind of thread you started, had it been done in the right way, would be most fitting in the DISCUSSION forums. Just click the link to Natural selection forums from the main site, then go down a few from OFF-TOPIC and you will see DISCUSSION.</li><li>Though I didn't say there was going to be a third, I realized that this too is an important point; In order to keep your thread from being distracted, sort out all your newbie issues BEFORE starting one. This whole Sig problem has obviously hit your thread like a ton of bricks and just serves to make it more off course. This is why it is sometimes frowned upon to start threads when you are relatively new to a forum, as you most definetly are. That normally doesn't count against you, but jumping into a random group of people like this doesn't work all that well in real life either. Thus it should be assumed that even if it works on the internet, it isn't the best way to go about things.</li></ul>
basically, if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us, well since we dont have this sense, we dont know about our surroundings in that environment. understand?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
thats not techniqually true as u can hear whats happening and people wud tell u about it, some people have an innocence to them that apprently allows them to see
make belive beings, so maybe only the innocence of a child for instance can see it and that is why kids have such large imaginations
basically, if we couldnt see we wouldnt know about the world around us, well sicne we dont have this sense, we dont know about our surroundings in that environment. understand? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
But then you are talking about an extra sensory ability. But what kind would it be? We can't really even relate the 5 sensory abilities we have to anything else we know, let alone describe or begin to understand what another one would be or what it would be like to have another one.
Eyesight allows us to experience the world in a way unlike any other we know, or as you seem to be putting it "a whole new reality", though I believe that doesn't work because it is just a sensory perception that allows us to experience the one reality we live in in a different way from say hearing.
I wouldn't say that each sense is experiencing a seperate reality because well, it's not, it is simply sending more sensory information to our brains through a different avenue than its fellow senses. You hear and see things from the same reality, but each experience is wholly unlike the other. We "hear" the vibrations of particles that cause sound. We "see" light waves/particles bouncing off of objects and hitting our retina's various rods and cones. They both come from the same world. They are simply just a different experience.
I don't think we can even begin to comprehend what or how any more senses would be or work.
I don't think we can even begin to comprehend what or how any more senses would be or work. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree with cold-nite he has a good point and i have no idea what i was going off about compared to cold's reply i was once again on a tangent hahah, i make the topic and cant even follow it straight.
but reading cold's view, they dont exist as seprate realities as u put it because thats like having 2 tvs.. one for sound and one for sight, it wud just seem pointless
<b>If a tree falls in a forest but no ones around to hear it fall does it make a noise??</b>
well let the games begin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesnt make a noise, cause a noise is bassically how our brain interprets swinging air-collums.
yes i know i didnt phrase it too well. i dont mean a new reality. i mean a new...perception. if we couldnt see then we wouldnt know what "translucent" was. glass would seem like a rock if we touched it or something. i mean reality as in a way of realising things. think basically. if we couldnt hear, we wouldnt know what sound was. we wouldnt know what noise a car or a dog made. well perhaps tjeres a sense we dont have, and therefore dont know about. this is my point. what if ?
EDIT: i kno i cant spell vehicles cause i always forget how its spelt
EDIT: well thats what i got from what u said because apart from eating anything and everything they can humans wud not have the intelligence to make concepts because theres no school so people would learn etc
"hey jragon"
"yes?"
" <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif' /><!--endemo--> IN YOUR FACE"
EDIT: besides u got a cool avatar jragon <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
oops typo .....
<b>If a tree falls in a forest but no ones around to hear it fall does it make a noise??</b>
well let the games begin <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It doesnt make a noise, cause a noise is bassically how our brain interprets swinging air-collums. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, it kinda depends with what one means with noise? Is it a bad thing or is it just a sound? Does it have a wife and 3 kids waiting home to be fed? - Err off topic.. (whee!)
Anyway, I guess you could call it potential noise, it exists in it's form and if a hearing organ comes into it's radius it will hear it, if noone hears it, it's still there with the potential noise!
EDIT: hmmm what to talk about now
Is this an answer?
Is this an answer? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
is this a troll?
Tree: "oh god yeah steve fell last week and he hasn't shut up since"
Steve: " oh yeah stand there and **** about it but would any of you take the time to HELP ME!?!" <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
lol
kinda like the moron who tries to see if the light in the refrigerater is still on when you close the door. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is this an answer? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is this a troll? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
I'm trying to be philisophical here!
<b>Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friends. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.</b>
Not especially philisophical, but funny. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Is this an answer? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
is this a troll? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes.
I'm trying to be philisophical here!
<b>Outside of a dog, books are a man's best friends. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read.</b>
Not especially philisophical, but funny. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Man you've made my enjoyment of this thread go up a lot.