<!--QuoteBegin-bliNk+Sep 5 2004, 08:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bliNk @ Sep 5 2004, 08:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hence ns_bast being removed before the re-make. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bast was removed because the source was lost and changes could no longer be made.
You sure do learn a lot about people's humanity by seeing how they react to things. I consider it useful information, myself.
An "ugly" map can be improved by constructive criticism. A map that plays horribly due to a flawed and imbalanced layout is not likely to recover, unless the mapper can handle a hit to his pride and make drastic changes.
Let me just say: everyone keep mapping and have a good old time. While a lot of you are busy trashing KFDM in a most jealous and unkind fashion, other people are working on their maps and submitting them to me and they are being looked at and playtested. It's your choice how you spend your time.
<!--QuoteBegin-Greedo386+Sep 5 2004, 08:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Greedo386 @ Sep 5 2004, 08:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-bliNk+Sep 5 2004, 08:26 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bliNk @ Sep 5 2004, 08:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> hence ns_bast being removed before the re-make. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Bast was removed because the source was lost and changes could no longer be made. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No longer be maintained/updated I think you mean, not made <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
No, <i>changes</i> could no longer be <i>made</i>.
The map could no longer be maintained/updated. He had correct subject/verb agreement in that sentance ("changes/made" specifically). Although maintained could possibly be used in a proper sentance describing what was specifically done with "changes", updated makes no sense whatsoever.
In short, make sure you are entirely correct before you nitpick anything. (Someone please come along now and point out some mistake I have made to further prove my own point.)
Really though, Tyr has the right of it. Why spend time fighting against what already is when you can help make it what it should be, or try to get your own version in there to SHOW people what should be.
For God's sake is this whole forum full of jealous nitpicking people? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> A few incorrect grammar points does not deserve a further 5 posts to clarify where he went wrong. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-PogoP+Sep 6 2004, 09:52 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (PogoP @ Sep 6 2004, 09:52 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For God's sake is this whole forum full of jealous nitpicking people? <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> A few incorrect grammar points does not deserve a further 5 posts to clarify where he went wrong. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah even with my obsurdly stupid correction which I later realise is wrong when I never saw the word "changes" lol.
EDIT: Jealous? Erm, for the good of the people and the majority of gamers, they don't like Altair lol.
Altair plays well... so what's the problem <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. KFDM could've used hl.wad textures and fullbright lighting for all I care. The fact that Altair isn't much of a looker and <b>still got in</b> is testament to how well it plays ingame.
Thursday-: For someone who almost exclusively uses ns.wad textures in his maps, you don't have much lee-way to talk about map visuals <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
<!--QuoteBegin-Hibame+Sep 5 2004, 12:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Hibame @ Sep 5 2004, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I havent played this map, but iv looked at it from the first screen shots to the ones now. I never really liked how it looked. It may play really good but thats only one part. Now take your map and imprive the detail maybe change around some textures and lighting. One of the things I did notice form the screens I saw was the lack of "mood" lighting just mainly a mono white with some other color from the computers on the walls. So I say work on the map some imprive it in some spots and leave it in others, the map doest have to win the nice looking award but most people wont play a map if its super balanced. They will play it cus it looks good and plays semi-good. If game play was all that counted we would have 40 perfect playing maps of just boxes that are the same texture but are so balanced that its a fun game. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ. Clan play is based off gameplay, and don't care for what it looks like. First priority is balance, second is look. But that doesn't mean one can't kill two birds with once stone (add clutter in a wide room that adds atmosphere, at the same time, adds cover for skulks etc etc. Check the other thread in public beta discussion for a more expansive explination of my idea)
<!--QuoteBegin-Spacer+Sep 6 2004, 12:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spacer @ Sep 6 2004, 12:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Altair plays well... so what's the problem <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. KFDM could've used hl.wad textures and fullbright lighting for all I care. The fact that Altair isn't much of a looker and <b>still got in</b> is testament to how well it plays ingame.
Thursday-: For someone who almost exclusively uses ns.wad textures in his maps, you don't have much lee-way to talk about map visuals <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm someone is forgetting the combat map I got 70% through where it used 95% NS2.Wad. There might be screenshots on the forums somewhere, although I lost it along with Guard in my "system explosion" about 4 months ago.
EDIT: There has been many many good playing maps that look crap, Rampage I would say plays better than this and certainly looks better. Why can't we have Rampage and Altair? This map just sucks visually.
I've just had the Altair 'experience' as part of downloading and playing the beta 5 update.
Instead of just slating it I'll try to give constructive criticism. Try.
MarineStart: stairs need texturing, properly. You seem to have used the wall texture and applied it to <i>every</i> stair face.
Going right and into Core Sample Analysis: you have a nice light texture up to the right, maybe lit a bit too brightly. What I don't understand is: Why is the other face on the left not also lit? The pure black texture for the 'bio-tank' wires just shouldn't happen. Also that vent is accessible by marines (but you probably already know that).
Nanite Regulation: and the water texture by the pipes has not been correctly alligned. As we keep moving left around the level we reach Settling Tanks, pretty much my favourite section just because it looks so nice. Only bad thing is: the barrels. Instead of 16-sided barrels, please ask someone to model one for you, it'll reduce the r_speeds and make them look much nicer. This would also help in Sub Bay 6, where the wpolys rarely dip below 700 and are frequently over 800. Nice moving arm mechanism though.
Round the corner is a puddle of goo, the type that features heavily in the map. The texture gives away a bit too much about HL's meagre origins, being that it looks like a Quake texture. This can be avoided by making it slightly transparent (if you have enough entities) which should take away that 'abnoxious, in your face' quality. Also it might be nicer to have it sitting in an actual puddle, rather than disobeying the laws of gravity by containing itself in an irregular-shaped prism 1 unit high on top of the ground.
The Hives I have no problem with, apart from one having a ledge with no visible support. It might benefit from a pillar or two here and there, which would also improve gameplay. Also there's a res node somewhere sitting on a pipe whose diameter is smaller than that of the ResNode model!
Those aside I think the main problem is the look of the level, and no matter how much you preach to the contrary, in the way I am about to describe this <i>does</i> affect the gameplay of a map.
When you play a map within about 10 minutes you should be starting to remember some areas and be beginning to familiarize yourself with its layout. This is mostly down to the mapper. If he/she has used different coloured lighting, atmospheric sounds and varying architecture for different areas, or perhaps similar designs for areas in common (ie they connect to the same room, or they are on the same deck) then this will have aided the player to find their way around without too much hassle.
When I walked around this level I kept on thinking that I was going round in circles because nothing stood out for me. I personally think it has a lot to do with the lighting and the lack of area sounds.
As I haven't played this map yet I can't vouch for it's 'solid gameplay' and all I can give is criticism regarding its look, but once I have I'll be giving feedback on that side too.
P.S. This wasn't intended to be an exercise in putting you down, I simply wanted to see this map living up to the high standards encouraged and produced by those included with each and every NS release.
<!--QuoteBegin--[Kobayashi]-+Sep 7 2004, 01:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-[Kobayashi]- @ Sep 7 2004, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I simply wanted to see this map living up to the high standards encouraged and produced by those included with each and every NS release. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen to that.
OK I've played a round on it. The light HAVE to be improved. I don't mind darkness, afterall it can help aliens out, but you don't want it everywhere. I'd prefer it if the corridors nearest the Hives were badly lit and those near MS were well-lit. At the moment though the lighting is not helping people navigate in the map. They can barely see the textures and as a result cannot recognise easily where they are/were/need to go.
As regards the sounds I notice they come in 5 varieties. You have pulse sound effect in areas with computer mainframes, fair enough. In areas where other sounds did feature they were either not loud enough, or didn't encompass a wide enough area. In fact, the loudest thing I heard while going through it offline to see if there were any sounds was the MarineStart Resource Tower.
I'm afraid that as far as I can tell, until people have learnt the map (which will take longer than that for the average map), the marines have the advantage navigation-wise. They have a man who has a map onscreen the whole round, he can see where Marines are and need to go. If aliens could get by with their map up the whole time it might play well, but until players have learnt this map it may just be a one-sided event.
Now I'm sure some of you may post to say that you've been on servers where Aliens have won the round, but I'm guessing that there will have been experienced players on the server. those who either know the map or who know how to exploit the perpetual darkness well. Now what I'm saying is that this is not a noob-friendly map, and it surprises me that a game with so much emphasis on attracting a universal audience (no gore, simplistic accuracy, FPS-meets-RTS) has included such a map in the current release.
It may well have 'solid' gameplay, but I'll have to wait until I've learnt the map for that to become apparent as it seems to me that I -and any other player new to it- will have a tough and frustrating time getting to grips with ns_altair.
I finish with a plea: I <b>want</b> to play this map, I <b>want</b> to enjoy its gameplay, so please -<i>pretty please</i>- change the lighting and add some sounds, 'cause an ns_map without sounds is like <i>Quake Deathmatch</i> with objectives...
To add on to Kobayashi, all I see is barrels, or generator boxes or water on spilling from a door everywhere. Its highly repeatitive and is'nt stimulating to a gamer, nor easy to remember the area. Try using computer monitors changing floor patterns and extreme height variation to make areas more unique.
Extreme height variations? Yeah because that has worked well in other maps <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
having only played it once, i cant really comment that much on it, but from what i did see it seemed pretty repetative, finding it hard to tell one corridor from another
<!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Sep 8 2004, 09:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Sep 8 2004, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> having only played it once, i cant really comment that much on it, but from what i did see it seemed pretty repetative, finding it hard to tell one corridor from another <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I made the map so I don't see the same thing y'all do. Could you expand on this and make some suggestions on how you think it would make it easier to navigate.
Rendy_CZechLife is a KoanJoin Date: 2003-10-11Member: 21608Members
edited September 2004
Gameplay might be good, layout looks well balanced, but I agree with Kester - from visual point the map is extreme repetetive. I don't feel any theme, there some suggestions that Altair is underwater facility but... that's not enought...
I think, small glass corridor showing ocean floor + seaweed might be extremely eye candy ... uh I've got idea for my next co_map
[Edit] Oh sorry mighty Kester, I've mistook U with co_Kestrel, can U forgive me ? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I can change...
<!--QuoteBegin-Rendy.[CZech]+Sep 8 2004, 06:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Rendy.[CZech] @ Sep 8 2004, 06:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Gameplay might be good, layout looks well balanced, but I agree with Kestrel - from visual point the map is extreme repetetive. I don't feel any theme, there some suggestions that Altair is underwater facility but... that's not enought...
I think, small glass corridor showing ocean floor + seaweed might be extremely eye candy ... uh I've got idea for my next co_map <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> its Kester =]
but yeah mebe changing the texture sets here and there to give the impression of different areas of the complex, so it would look like part of it had been built after the original complex was
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Sep 8 2004, 12:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 8 2004, 12:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Kester+Sep 8 2004, 09:36 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Kester @ Sep 8 2004, 09:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> having only played it once, i cant really comment that much on it, but from what i did see it seemed pretty repetative, finding it hard to tell one corridor from another <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I made the map so I don't see the same thing y'all do. Could you expand on this and make some suggestions on how you think it would make it easier to navigate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Read my post maybe?
Am I the only person that likes the map? <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> Sure it could do well to have some nice looking features, but the gameplay is amazing. And anyway, games like The Ship and other mods have poorer quality looking maps, so why does ns have this "maps must look nice over being well playable" stereotype? :/
Seriously has anyone read my lengthy posts on this map? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> There's one about the look and another about the gameplay. Read them and you'll see why the look affects the gameplay, an area in which this map is not anywhere near 'amazing' in it's current state. I've also posted about how easy it would be to improve the map so that one day, maybe, it might have amazing gameplay...
<!--QuoteBegin--[Kobayashi]-+Sep 8 2004, 04:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-[Kobayashi]- @ Sep 8 2004, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Seriously has anyone read my lengthy posts on this map? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> There's one about the look and another about the gameplay. Read them and you'll see why the look affects the gameplay, an area in which this map is not anywhere near 'amazing' in it's current state. I've also posted about how easy it would be to improve the map so that one day, maybe, it might have amazing gameplay... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why do you assume that noone has read your post. I assure you I already have and I logged several things and have already implimented a few of the minor ones. I still like getting unique feedback from everyone so I don't need to keep being pointed back to your post.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuDiscoMonkey+Sep 8 2004, 05:09 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuDiscoMonkey @ Sep 8 2004, 05:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Why do you assume that noone has read your post. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, I'll tell you why:
1. As far as I'm aware, in <i>American</i> English <i>y'all</i> is an abbreviation for 'you all'. As I made a post I considered myself to be part of the 'you all'.
2. You asked a question that I (and others) had given a pretty comprehensive answer to, namely concerning why the map was so repetitive.
3. PogoP made some remark about people putting too much emphasis on how a map looks, and if he'd read my post he may have learned why.
4. When you post a pic or plans for a map, we give feedback. You know we've seen it/read your ideas because we say 'ooh I like it' or 'maybe you should try this'. But in the same way it's nice for you to know that someone's actually bothered to help you out, it's nice for us to know how you're adapting your map having been given all of this (hopefully) constructive criticism. This usually is done by saying 'ooh good idea' or 'maybe you should try self-circumcision because you and your face aren't welcome here'. Either way, it's nice to know the mapper's views, as ultimately they will make the changes, not the critic.
KungFuDiscoMonkey, to make areas less repeatitive, look at older versions of the map, here is 2 screenshots I found from the Skulk-Rush Community of an older version of altair. I think the current map looks nothing compared to the older version, which in my opinion is a bad thing. (shots below)
Comments
Bast was removed because the source was lost and changes could no longer be made.
An "ugly" map can be improved by constructive criticism. A map that plays horribly due to a flawed and imbalanced layout is not likely to recover, unless the mapper can handle a hit to his pride and make drastic changes.
Let me just say: everyone keep mapping and have a good old time. While a lot of you are busy trashing KFDM in a most jealous and unkind fashion, other people are working on their maps and submitting them to me and they are being looked at and playtested. It's your choice how you spend your time.
Bast was removed because the source was lost and changes could no longer be made. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No longer be maintained/updated I think you mean, not made <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
The map could no longer be maintained/updated. He had correct subject/verb agreement in that sentance ("changes/made" specifically). Although maintained could possibly be used in a proper sentance describing what was specifically done with "changes", updated makes no sense whatsoever.
In short, make sure you are entirely correct before you nitpick anything. (Someone please come along now and point out some mistake I have made to further prove my own point.)
Really though, Tyr has the right of it. Why spend time fighting against what already is when you can help make it what it should be, or try to get your own version in there to SHOW people what should be.
Bast was removed because the source was lost and changes could no longer be made. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes I know
A few incorrect grammar points does not deserve a further 5 posts to clarify where he went wrong. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo-->
A few incorrect grammar points does not deserve a further 5 posts to clarify where he went wrong. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah even with my obsurdly stupid correction which I later realise is wrong when I never saw the word "changes" lol.
EDIT: Jealous? Erm, for the good of the people and the majority of gamers, they don't like Altair lol.
Thursday-: For someone who almost exclusively uses ns.wad textures in his maps, you don't have much lee-way to talk about map visuals <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
I beg to differ. Clan play is based off gameplay, and don't care for what it looks like. First priority is balance, second is look. But that doesn't mean one can't kill two birds with once stone (add clutter in a wide room that adds atmosphere, at the same time, adds cover for skulks etc etc. Check the other thread in public beta discussion for a more expansive explination of my idea)
Thursday-: For someone who almost exclusively uses ns.wad textures in his maps, you don't have much lee-way to talk about map visuals <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm someone is forgetting the combat map I got 70% through where it used 95% NS2.Wad. There might be screenshots on the forums somewhere, although I lost it along with Guard in my "system explosion" about 4 months ago.
EDIT: There has been many many good playing maps that look crap, Rampage I would say plays better than this and certainly looks better. Why can't we have Rampage and Altair? This map just sucks visually.
Instead of just slating it I'll try to give constructive criticism. Try.
MarineStart: stairs need texturing, properly. You seem to have used the wall texture and applied it to <i>every</i> stair face.
Going right and into Core Sample Analysis: you have a nice light texture up to the right, maybe lit a bit too brightly. What I don't understand is: Why is the other face on the left not also lit? The pure black texture for the 'bio-tank' wires just shouldn't happen. Also that vent is accessible by marines (but you probably already know that).
Nanite Regulation: and the water texture by the pipes has not been correctly alligned. As we keep moving left around the level we reach Settling Tanks, pretty much my favourite section just because it looks so nice. Only bad thing is: the barrels. Instead of 16-sided barrels, please ask someone to model one for you, it'll reduce the r_speeds and make them look much nicer. This would also help in Sub Bay 6, where the wpolys rarely dip below 700 and are frequently over 800. Nice moving arm mechanism though.
Round the corner is a puddle of goo, the type that features heavily in the map. The texture gives away a bit too much about HL's meagre origins, being that it looks like a Quake texture. This can be avoided by making it slightly transparent (if you have enough entities) which should take away that 'abnoxious, in your face' quality. Also it might be nicer to have it sitting in an actual puddle, rather than disobeying the laws of gravity by containing itself in an irregular-shaped prism 1 unit high on top of the ground.
The Hives I have no problem with, apart from one having a ledge with no visible support. It might benefit from a pillar or two here and there, which would also improve gameplay. Also there's a res node somewhere sitting on a pipe whose diameter is smaller than that of the ResNode model!
Those aside I think the main problem is the look of the level, and no matter how much you preach to the contrary, in the way I am about to describe this <i>does</i> affect the gameplay of a map.
When you play a map within about 10 minutes you should be starting to remember some areas and be beginning to familiarize yourself with its layout. This is mostly down to the mapper. If he/she has used different coloured lighting, atmospheric sounds and varying architecture for different areas, or perhaps similar designs for areas in common (ie they connect to the same room, or they are on the same deck) then this will have aided the player to find their way around without too much hassle.
When I walked around this level I kept on thinking that I was going round in circles because nothing stood out for me. I personally think it has a lot to do with the lighting and the lack of area sounds.
As I haven't played this map yet I can't vouch for it's 'solid gameplay' and all I can give is criticism regarding its look, but once I have I'll be giving feedback on that side too.
P.S. This wasn't intended to be an exercise in putting you down, I simply wanted to see this map living up to the high standards encouraged and produced by those included with each and every NS release.
Amen to that.
As regards the sounds I notice they come in 5 varieties. You have pulse sound effect in areas with computer mainframes, fair enough. In areas where other sounds did feature they were either not loud enough, or didn't encompass a wide enough area. In fact, the loudest thing I heard while going through it offline to see if there were any sounds was the MarineStart Resource Tower.
I'm afraid that as far as I can tell, until people have learnt the map (which will take longer than that for the average map), the marines have the advantage navigation-wise. They have a man who has a map onscreen the whole round, he can see where Marines are and need to go. If aliens could get by with their map up the whole time it might play well, but until players have learnt this map it may just be a one-sided event.
Now I'm sure some of you may post to say that you've been on servers where Aliens have won the round, but I'm guessing that there will have been experienced players on the server. those who either know the map or who know how to exploit the perpetual darkness well. Now what I'm saying is that this is not a noob-friendly map, and it surprises me that a game with so much emphasis on attracting a universal audience (no gore, simplistic accuracy, FPS-meets-RTS) has included such a map in the current release.
It may well have 'solid' gameplay, but I'll have to wait until I've learnt the map for that to become apparent as it seems to me that I -and any other player new to it- will have a tough and frustrating time getting to grips with ns_altair.
I finish with a plea: I <b>want</b> to play this map, I <b>want</b> to enjoy its gameplay, so please -<i>pretty please</i>- change the lighting and add some sounds, 'cause an ns_map without sounds is like <i>Quake Deathmatch</i> with objectives...
I made the map so I don't see the same thing y'all do. Could you expand on this and make some suggestions on how you think it would make it easier to navigate.
I think, small glass corridor showing ocean floor + seaweed might be extremely eye candy ... uh I've got idea for my next co_map
[Edit] Oh sorry mighty Kester, I've mistook U with co_Kestrel, can U forgive me ? <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile-fix.gif' /><!--endemo--> I can change...
I think, small glass corridor showing ocean floor + seaweed might be extremely eye candy ... uh I've got idea for my next co_map <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
its Kester =]
but yeah mebe changing the texture sets here and there to give the impression of different areas of the complex, so it would look like part of it had been built after the original complex was
I made the map so I don't see the same thing y'all do. Could you expand on this and make some suggestions on how you think it would make it easier to navigate. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Read my post maybe?
Sure it could do well to have some nice looking features, but the gameplay is amazing. And anyway, games like The Ship and other mods have poorer quality looking maps, so why does ns have this "maps must look nice over being well playable" stereotype? :/
There's one about the look and another about the gameplay. Read them and you'll see why the look affects the gameplay, an area in which this map is not anywhere near 'amazing' in it's current state. I've also posted about how easy it would be to improve the map so that one day, maybe, it might have amazing gameplay...
There's one about the look and another about the gameplay. Read them and you'll see why the look affects the gameplay, an area in which this map is not anywhere near 'amazing' in it's current state. I've also posted about how easy it would be to improve the map so that one day, maybe, it might have amazing gameplay... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why do you assume that noone has read your post. I assure you I already have and I logged several things and have already implimented a few of the minor ones. I still like getting unique feedback from everyone so I don't need to keep being pointed back to your post.
Well, I'll tell you why:
1. As far as I'm aware, in <i>American</i> English <i>y'all</i> is an abbreviation for 'you all'. As I made a post I considered myself to be part of the 'you all'.
2. You asked a question that I (and others) had given a pretty comprehensive answer to, namely concerning why the map was so repetitive.
3. PogoP made some remark about people putting too much emphasis on how a map looks, and if he'd read my post he may have learned why.
4. When you post a pic or plans for a map, we give feedback. You know we've seen it/read your ideas because we say 'ooh I like it' or 'maybe you should try this'. But in the same way it's nice for you to know that someone's actually bothered to help you out, it's nice for us to know how you're adapting your map having been given all of this (hopefully) constructive criticism. This usually is done by saying 'ooh good idea' or 'maybe you should try self-circumcision because you and your face aren't welcome here'. Either way, it's nice to know the mapper's views, as ultimately they will make the changes, not the critic.
<img src='http://community.skulkrush.com/site/news/ns_altair1%20-%20kunfumonkeys.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://community.skulkrush.com/site/news/ns_altair2%20-%20kunfumonkeys.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />