Thanks 'browse Games' For Ruining My Server.

Silicon · August 2004

I don't think complaining on a forum will help the issue much, but hey that's just me, noobs are a fact of life, whether they want to learn or not.

weggy · August 2004

To be honest, autohelp has to be the EASIEST thing to fix, hands down. Isn't all that stored in titles.txt? Hell, I could make an "up-to-date" version of that myself in probably under an hour.

Necrosis · August 2004

"Complaining" on the forum helps because it involves the best segment of the community. Its OUR job, as the regular players, to educate the new. Its our job to suggest a training course, and for the skilled among us its our job to TRY to make a hazard course style situation.

You heard the official line - would you rather everything halted as the dev team went nuts on a hazard course? I know I wouldn't. So we as a community should try and step in to help.

NS Learn came from the community, guides come from the community, so telling the community is a good way to highlight the problem and find a solution.

Nemesis_Zero · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (weggy @ Aug 10 2004, 06:48 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> To be honest, autohelp has to be the EASIEST thing to fix, hands down. Isn't all that stored in titles.txt? Hell, I could make an "up-to-date" version of that myself in probably under an hour.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
This stops being so easy when you are still constantly changing stuff. 3.0 final will get a completely updated titles. Until then, we'll have to get by.

Meto · August 2004

The problem described here already happend to another well known mod, counter-strike. Unfortunately the same phenomenon brought about a lot of problems.

1. General decline in attitude from good to bad.
2. Less patient players.
3. Widespread cheating.
4. Widespread accusations of cheating.
5. Less developer contact, yes you used to be able to get in touch with Cliffe if you needed to.
6. More pleasing the masses and less staying true to the original idea.

Six (6) is mainly to blame on valve I'd say and I'm sure Flayra and the NS Team wont go the same way.
Five (5) is inevitable but at least we have some pretty good forums and a fairly active community.

Three (3) and Four (4) Well I wont discuss cheating because that's an entirely different thread.

The other points are what we need to avoid. I think the idea of some tutorial system is vital. What happens if we get an influx of noobs? Sure we can teach them to play but that means that instead of 50% of games being fun only 25% will be and eventually the vets will lose all interest in the game. Basically we have a less fun, more popular game... go figure.

My best games of NS is where everyone works together as a team! Even if you do some dogsbody tasks like building up a load of structures you still feel like you achieved something. If you do all that crap work while your team mates rambo then you feel like you got the short end of the stick. Let's teach the new players that also.

eh, I'm rambling...

mechadestroyer2 · August 2004

if you dont hop into the comm chair you will never learn how to be a good comm period, nobody will tell you how to be a good comm and nobody will develop a good strategy...nobody but you. Secondly we were all noobs at some point right so i say shush and better think of a way how to help those noobs learn. Third blizzard games DID help me become the ubar comm, because when you comm your game turns into a strategy game with live soldiers and it is very similar to starcraft : )

Lito · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (mechadestroyer2 @ Aug 10 2004, 10:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> if you dont hop into the comm chair you will never learn how to be a good comm period, nobody will tell you how to be a good comm and nobody will develop a good strategy...nobody but you. Secondly we were all noobs at some point right so i say shush and better think of a way how to help those noobs learn. Third blizzard games DID help me become the ubar comm, because when you comm your game turns into a strategy game with live soldiers and it is very similar to starcraft : ) </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
First, I am NOT complaining about the noobs. I compeltely understand that noobs are all around us. What the heck is complaining about it going to do? I help noobs that want to learn, but there is simply no way to get through to the noobs that just don't care. They're ramboing off all over the place thinking that they're not hurting anyone. News flash: 16 player server, 7 marines to command, I can't afford to lose another. Oh and believe me, I've tried. Voice comm, text messages, and waypoints! All ignored as they take that shiny hmg right through that wall of lame.

Second, there are PLENTY of ways to learn how to be a good comm; hopping in the chair is probably the quickest way, and also the quickest way to ruin the game for your team. Way to go, soldier.
Step 1: Learn the game. Yes. That means both sides.
Step 2: Read Commanding articles. Strategies, what not.
Step 3: Learn by example. Watch other comms closely while you grunt for them. See strategies that you learned on pen and paper come to life. Watch for useful tactics.
Step 4: Start up your own server and practice placing buildings, med spam, etc. Learn the tech tree.
Step 5: NOW you hop in the chair.

The only thing excusable for a comm is being slow, which comes with practice and lots of chair time.

Commanding requires you to know the game inside out. This means you know what everything does, what you need for which buildings, etc. And this is not limited to the marine side either. You must know alien strategies, how to combat them, most likely second hive, good chokepoints to hold etc. You just don't simply 'hop in the chair and learn'.

There are plenty of people that will help you comm, you just have to find a friendly server.

Third, I did not imply that playing other RTS games did NOT help you become a competent commander. I implied that they do not MAKE you a competent commander, as many seem to think.

douchebagatron · August 2004

i think a good way to learn to command would be if there was a way to spectate commanders. many a time i have wanted to watch what they are doing up there.

Necrosis · August 2004

I've hammered tons of RTS games, squad based tac games, you name it, and still get thrashed in NS.

And thats despite a year of observation, from both sides, and reading the various faqs, tips, etc.

I'd definitely say being good at other RTS games doesn't translate to NS. For one, in NS player skill fluctuates. There's also luck. Doesn't happen in RTS games.

As Lito said, its all about speed. Reaction time can make up for a lot of shortcomings as a comm.

But I digress, we're sidetracking off the main issue.

Firewater · August 2004

Its funny how I used to flame certain people and call them noobs, and thats not ok. Those same people are complaining about "noobs" in their community. Don't mock people for not being at your standard of play, or you are no better than the "elitist A-hole clanners" that some clans have.

It just goes to show that anyone can be a "noob" based on perspective.

Show a little respect to these people, instead of useless complaining. If worse comes to worse reserve slots will be placed on servers.

Don't flame those for "ruining your server", just suck it up and deal with it, help those who want to listen, ignore those who don't.

Zephor · August 2004

I got called a noob 3 days into the first release of this game. Some people just need to learn to listen to only the people worth listening to.

c_oma · August 2004

ok, my €0.02 (although this may have been pointed out in this thread or another already, too lazy to read, stupid eurotrash is what i am!)

when i started playing ns, back when 1.0(4) was out, i played langames only, as i had no internet connection. actually, i had followed the development of the game from about a year before the first public release (oh the waiting!!!). anyway, lan games suck if you habe only 4 or 5 semi-interested ppl on your lan, and i had no internet connection.. but that changed around the 2.01 time. then, i got an internet connection, could FINALLY play ns, and the forst few games were really like "what am i doing?". but then, i found the Sandbox server from the [SA] clan, with whichbots and VERY PATIENT AND HELPFULL clan members and regulars ([SA]Jasmine, MojoSith, and all those other guys/gals whose names i don't remember at the moment) who really took the time to learn noobs like me how to play marine, and commander. IMHO, that was a VERY good entrypoint into this game, after 50 orso matches against whichbots (which were easily won of course) i started playing marine on other servers, man i sucked but at least i knew how everything worked... from there, i learned what aliens were all about.

moral of this story: we (the NS community) need a number of servers that run bots on them, easily identified by some 'training'icon in the serverlist, so noobs can join these and learn! one or two regular players playing on such a server could turn those impatient noobs into crappy players that know how ns works <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> from there, it's the normal pub games

MamboKing · August 2004

I give them about a month before 75% of the new influx of newbies leave anyways. To the ones that stick around and try to learn the game I give the warmest of welcomes (unless you hop in the comm chair without knowing what armor 1 is, then I kick your head off).

Freddeh · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (surprise @ Aug 8 2004, 03:46 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> nobody ever mentioned the way i came to ns <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

i started with *gasp*.... <b>BOTS</b>

before i joined my first onlinegame i already knew what the commchair was for, how to build, what the aliens were and so on...

include bots in the official release and make the new players to play some rounds offline

i believe it would work wonder on some people  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
ditto lol

i didn't have internet when i started playin ns...i dled 1.04 from a friend at a lan party and was pretty hooked. I found bots and then finally got internet to play on and i was even more hooked <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' />

Sops · August 2004

hehe I learned to play when the manual when it was still in date.

HAMBone · August 2004

Just remember next time before you call someone a newbie, there is ALWAYS someone out there who thinks that you are a newbie

Fuser · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (HAMBONE @ Aug 11 2004, 02:28 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Just remember next time before you call someone a newbie, there is ALWAYS someone out there who thinks that you are a newbie  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
shut up newbie

jay kay <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' />

Hologram0 · August 2004

Force a manual on them after install... Have a "code" that you can skip it if you want. Ie after the first time you beat this training mission it gives you the code, this means that next time you know what it is... and do not have to go through the guide/hazzard course... The cl_autohelp should have an aditional setting, giving 3 in total.
Off
Tips
Training

Training would baiscally bombard the person with information, tips would be what cl_autohelp 1 is now...

Add to the install a link to newbie clinics webpage... And thats about all you can do.

BlackMage · August 2004

i was lucky, i RTFM'd (1.04 where the manual was almost right) and i had jefe and some fft guys help me out

<span style='font-size:4pt;line-height:100%'>didn't do much because i still shoot like NSPlayer, but it's the thought that counts ^^</span>

Drfuzzy · August 2004

I think im one of the few in the community that ever bothers to read everything they can before they play a mod/game to keep from looking like a utter idiot. Personaly i think its their fault for being a 'noob' and not reading up on it on the games main site and all the readmes/tutorals there are online, so they bring deh flame on themselfs.

OttoDestruct · August 2004

I started playing on 1.02 iirc. Personally starting as a noob for me was easy, as NS had gone on a major PR blitz then (thats how I found out), and LOTS of people were newbies. So when I saw a fade, and went "WTH IS THAT THING", everyone else on my team was saying it too. Noobs now have to deal with people who have been playing a while. TBH even a tutorial can't teach everyting. The only way I learned to comm without **** people off was to download cheezeh's bot and just tinker around. Learning what does what is one thing, but strategy is something that can only be taught with experience.

Petco · August 2004

I learned most of the stuff from cl_autohelp 1 and players.

Death_Blooms · August 2004

hey man, my 3rd day playing, i could keep top score or 3rd place to constellation veterans, you can learn this game verry quick if your observent and assimilate: P

but i do know what your talking about, their are a lot of noobs who dont give a **** about their team and they suck at killing also...

i think i picked this game up quick cause i was like a cs god
11-1 for 17 hrs - beat dat

yea aliens rock, marines are easy

Align · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Death Blooms @ Aug 11 2004, 11:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> hey man, my 3rd day playing, i could keep top score or 3rd place to constellation veterans, you can learn this game verry quick if your observent and assimilate: P

but i do know what your talking about, their are a lot of noobs who dont give a **** about their team and they suck at killing also...

i think i picked this game up quick cause i was like a cs god
11-1 for 17 hrs - beat dat

yea aliens rock, marines are easy  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Well, as long as you come from a good clan you should know about using teamwork, and have way less trouble with being considered an idiot, or nub, or anything else people might call those who know less...
Most people are from pubs though, so they arent likely to have that much patience if they come from CS where the action happens sooner, if not faster, than in NS.

Lito · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Death Blooms @ Aug 11 2004, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> hey man, my 3rd day playing, i could keep top score or 3rd place to constellation veterans, you can learn this game verry quick if your observent and assimilate: P

but i do know what your talking about, their are a lot of noobs who dont give a **** about their team and they suck at killing also...

i think i picked this game up quick cause i was like a cs god
11-1 for 17 hrs - beat dat

yea aliens rock, marines are easy  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I don't mind them 'suck at shooting'. You can't tell someone to simply "WTH, SHOOT BETTER! OMG NUB", because it won't work because they can't control it. What they can control is their open-ness to learn.

But I find it amazing that a person can ignore all three methods of communication: text, voice, and waypoints. Text maybe, voice a little less likely, but c'mon, there is a circle on your screen thats blinking, that says 'Go to waypoint', accompanied by the sound "Move to your waypoint soldier". Thats a little hard to miss.

MamboKing · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lito @ Aug 11 2004, 06:38 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> </div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Death Blooms @ Aug 11 2004, 05:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> hey man, my 3rd day playing, i could keep top score or 3rd place to constellation veterans, you can learn this game verry quick if your observent and assimilate: P

but i do know what your talking about, their are a lot of noobs who dont give a **** about their team and they suck at killing also...

i think i picked this game up quick cause i was like a cs god
11-1 for 17 hrs - beat dat

yea aliens rock, marines are easy </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
I don't mind them 'suck at shooting'. You can't tell someone to simply "WTH, SHOOT BETTER! OMG NUB", because it won't work because they can't control it. What they can control is their open-ness to learn.

But I find it amazing that a person can ignore all three methods of communication: text, voice, and waypoints. Text maybe, voice a little less likely, but c'mon, there is a circle on your screen thats blinking, that says 'Go to waypoint', accompanied by the sound "Move to your waypoint soldier". Thats a little hard to miss.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
Actually I can understand the waypoint one much more than the voice one. Waypoints are annoying.

IBT · August 2004

well, lito, i have bad news, its not just your server.
2 ppl was prolly all it needed to degrade cs to what it is today, and i met them...
</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>What they can control is their open-ness to learn.</td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'>
there should be a big note, saying NS IS A HIGHLY COMPLEX GAME, so the people who are stuck on closed wont go in.

Madsy · August 2004

Public games will always have beginners; both arrogant and nice ones.
I agree we need a good tutorial, but forcing people to play through it, could decrease the recruitment of new players significantly.
My suggestion is to play on servers which is part of a online community. Often, servers like that require passwords, or a reserved slot.

Lito · August 2004

Yes, The Lunixmonster is an excellent community with a large res slot base full of great players. </shameless plug> But usually from 7 am - 12 pm its Nubtown, USA.

Buggy · August 2004

</div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Madsy @ Aug 11 2004, 09:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Public games will always have beginners; both arrogant and nice ones.
I agree we need a good tutorial, but forcing people to play through it, could decrease the recruitment of new players significantly.
My suggestion is to play on servers which is part of a online community. Often, servers like that require passwords, or a reserved slot.  </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> 
I dont think the forced training course in Call of Duty made that game any less popular.

Thanks 'browse Games' For Ruining My Server.

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