Thanks 'browse Games' For Ruining My Server.
Lito
Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20560Members
Join Date: 2003-09-04 Member: 20560Members
Look. I know we were all noobs once. We all had to suffer through the whole "OMG, RTFM, NOOB!" and the whole feeling of not knowing what the heck is going on.
I realise that noobs are the seedlings of NS's community's future. I help noobs. I want to help them. That makes my server a better place to play on when the players are more informed and skilled.
Steam updated a while ago, and many were happy about NS being on the top of the list of the third part mods on 'Browse Games'. This update brought a HUGE wave of noobs into the community. My server alone was flooded with them; often me being the only regular on. These weren't the "Man, I have no idea what i'm doing. Hey, whats this? Oh, an armory...I can get ammo from it" noobs, these were the "What the hell is going on? This sucks. Get me into the action damnit. This game is so boring. Oh a shotgun! I can kill stuff now!". They don't want to learn, they can't learn and all they care about is their own personal enjoyment of the game (and thus ruining said enjoyment for other players on his/her team).
So what have we done about it? There are various ways that have popped up to combat noobs: The manual, NSGuide, NSLearn, and Combat are just a few that i can think of off of my head.
And how effective are they?
The manual is boring, lengthy, and outdated. Even if it were great, and updated, only a few noobs would read it. All they care about is "OMG I WANT 2 B DA COMMANDOR". They take one look at the manual, say 'screw it, this is boring, i want to show how leet of a commander I am...i've played ALL the blizzard games, i can't lose!' Hop on a server, grab the chair, play around thinking that they can pick this game up fast, just like counter strike and DOD.
This isn't counter strike and DOD. NS, compared to the latter, has a very large learning curve. I myself learned it by a combination of reading the outdated 1.04 manual and playing many many games. This is a commitment that many of the newer players will not make.
NSGuide was a nice idea. I liked it. I liked the idea that people were actually selected to help noobs. It alleviated some of my time teaching to play a fun game. However NS guides arn't everywhere, the messaging command they use to message players with help are not different than regular text. They are ignored, and no one gets helped. The first thing on the mind of noobs is to have fun. In counter strike and DOD, you get fun, you have two steps: 1. Point. 2. Fire. Not as simple in NS where teamwork really does make a difference. They don't realise this, or more likely, they don't care. They try to have fun, and screw thier team in the process.
NSLearn, a learning program set up by FireWater, is not convinient. They first must go on the channel, message an instructor, and set up a date to learn. Thats great and all when you've got the basics down and you want to learn more about NS, but very few noobs will go through this process to learn. That means that they will only learn when it is convinient for them ie. on the server they play on, but if they do that, they're really just NSGuides without the nifty icon or special messaging command.
Combat is the most effective noob learning tool. Its similarity to Counter Strike and DOD is striking. In fact, many noobs feel at home when they play Combat games. Thats great, but what does this do for NS classic? Not much. They're just a little less clueless on weaponry and shooting. In fact, it produces the annoying "Comm drop me a better gun" noobs that don't do jack until they get a shotgun, rambo out of base, die, cry, spawn, then ask for another one. I'm not bashing combat. In fact, the easiness to learn Combat attracted many new players to the community. Combat has helped this community grow, but in a time where Steam is helping too, Combat's main reason to exist is mostly lost. Combat needs to do more than just teach them all the weaponry in the game and game mechanics. It needs to do alot more than immerse them into the NS atmosphere. It must teach them aspects of NS classic, or Combat will be compeltely useless in terms of making the community grow. It only serves to make the Combat community grow. We want epic games. We need a clan base, and combat isn't helping. Have you heard of a Combat clan? yeah, neither have I.
I don't think there is much there is to be done. One thing that pops to mind is manditory training. In America's Army, you must go through several basic training courses before you can play the game online. This probably can't be done, and will probably discourage some noobs. But if it decreases the general baffledness of the noob stream thats being funneled in by Steam's Browse Games, then I think its worth it. Just an idea.
Yes. I'm ****. tommorow morning i'll probably reread this and ask myself "What the hell was I thinking?". If any part of this article has offended you, i'm sorry, but this is how I feel.
Flame away~
I realise that noobs are the seedlings of NS's community's future. I help noobs. I want to help them. That makes my server a better place to play on when the players are more informed and skilled.
Steam updated a while ago, and many were happy about NS being on the top of the list of the third part mods on 'Browse Games'. This update brought a HUGE wave of noobs into the community. My server alone was flooded with them; often me being the only regular on. These weren't the "Man, I have no idea what i'm doing. Hey, whats this? Oh, an armory...I can get ammo from it" noobs, these were the "What the hell is going on? This sucks. Get me into the action damnit. This game is so boring. Oh a shotgun! I can kill stuff now!". They don't want to learn, they can't learn and all they care about is their own personal enjoyment of the game (and thus ruining said enjoyment for other players on his/her team).
So what have we done about it? There are various ways that have popped up to combat noobs: The manual, NSGuide, NSLearn, and Combat are just a few that i can think of off of my head.
And how effective are they?
The manual is boring, lengthy, and outdated. Even if it were great, and updated, only a few noobs would read it. All they care about is "OMG I WANT 2 B DA COMMANDOR". They take one look at the manual, say 'screw it, this is boring, i want to show how leet of a commander I am...i've played ALL the blizzard games, i can't lose!' Hop on a server, grab the chair, play around thinking that they can pick this game up fast, just like counter strike and DOD.
This isn't counter strike and DOD. NS, compared to the latter, has a very large learning curve. I myself learned it by a combination of reading the outdated 1.04 manual and playing many many games. This is a commitment that many of the newer players will not make.
NSGuide was a nice idea. I liked it. I liked the idea that people were actually selected to help noobs. It alleviated some of my time teaching to play a fun game. However NS guides arn't everywhere, the messaging command they use to message players with help are not different than regular text. They are ignored, and no one gets helped. The first thing on the mind of noobs is to have fun. In counter strike and DOD, you get fun, you have two steps: 1. Point. 2. Fire. Not as simple in NS where teamwork really does make a difference. They don't realise this, or more likely, they don't care. They try to have fun, and screw thier team in the process.
NSLearn, a learning program set up by FireWater, is not convinient. They first must go on the channel, message an instructor, and set up a date to learn. Thats great and all when you've got the basics down and you want to learn more about NS, but very few noobs will go through this process to learn. That means that they will only learn when it is convinient for them ie. on the server they play on, but if they do that, they're really just NSGuides without the nifty icon or special messaging command.
Combat is the most effective noob learning tool. Its similarity to Counter Strike and DOD is striking. In fact, many noobs feel at home when they play Combat games. Thats great, but what does this do for NS classic? Not much. They're just a little less clueless on weaponry and shooting. In fact, it produces the annoying "Comm drop me a better gun" noobs that don't do jack until they get a shotgun, rambo out of base, die, cry, spawn, then ask for another one. I'm not bashing combat. In fact, the easiness to learn Combat attracted many new players to the community. Combat has helped this community grow, but in a time where Steam is helping too, Combat's main reason to exist is mostly lost. Combat needs to do more than just teach them all the weaponry in the game and game mechanics. It needs to do alot more than immerse them into the NS atmosphere. It must teach them aspects of NS classic, or Combat will be compeltely useless in terms of making the community grow. It only serves to make the Combat community grow. We want epic games. We need a clan base, and combat isn't helping. Have you heard of a Combat clan? yeah, neither have I.
I don't think there is much there is to be done. One thing that pops to mind is manditory training. In America's Army, you must go through several basic training courses before you can play the game online. This probably can't be done, and will probably discourage some noobs. But if it decreases the general baffledness of the noob stream thats being funneled in by Steam's Browse Games, then I think its worth it. Just an idea.
Yes. I'm ****. tommorow morning i'll probably reread this and ask myself "What the hell was I thinking?". If any part of this article has offended you, i'm sorry, but this is how I feel.
Flame away~
Comments
I try to avoid combat nowadays. It seems to be quite flooded with the 'I WANTZ TO KILLZORS THAT OHNOES WITH MY 1337 G47L1NG GUNZORS'.
Even a simple quiz before joining a server would be better than nothing. If you don't get enough correct answers it will refer you to the NS manual.
The guide program is starting to rev up again, and hopefully the dev team can include some sort of guide-only features to help people out.
Thats why the guides are gonna need some power to be of any help.
I bet there are other threads about it, but they need at least some unique way of communication.
Thats why the guides are gonna need some power to be of any help.
I bet there are other threads about it, but they need at least some unique way of communication. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
They do. They have a special messaging system that sort of works like admin_psay that only NSGuides can use. But its bugged, and the text that they send isn't special in any way, so its easily lost in the game text chats.
Ideally you would run the tutorial, it'd spawn you in, it'd waypoint the CC, tell you what it is, make the "Commander" drop an Armory, explain it, and explain building, then drop an IP and explain it.
I mean, thats how most RTS games break you in - "These are resources! This is your command centre! Here's where the troops come from!". I know autohelp does give some handy messages, but I'm willing to bet they appear whenever you're trying to mutilate something and thus have no time to read.
When I got into NS last year I just followed orders and built at waypoints, etc, but then I didn't come from another HL mod. If players have a preconceived notion of how the game goes then it might hamper their growth.
I game the same server as Lito and had the joy of seeing someone attempt to kick the commander because the commander wouldn't drop him a better gun. Understand that we were earlygame, didn't have a lot of res, and the aliens had no upgrades....... But then some players will never be helped and will always grief the commander/other marines.
You don't know how hard all that was to type without saying "cornmandor".
On the short term there isn't much you can do about it. Wait it out; the tards who only feel like shooting things will go back to CS, DoD and TFC. In the meantime, admin aggressively and kick anyone that isn't receptive to advice or willing to learn. You're just going to have to be really patient with the ones that are learning and don't take any crap from the ones that aren't.
On the short term there isn't much you can do about it. Wait it out; the tards who only feel like shooting things will go back to CS, DoD and TFC. In the meantime, admin aggressively and kick anyone that isn't receptive to advice or willing to learn. You're just going to have to be really patient with the ones that are learning and don't take any crap from the ones that aren't. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
But seeing as how theres somewhere around 30,000 of those "CS, DoD, TFC" people out there and seeing as how not everyone immediately downloads every single TP mod there is I would personally predict a long steady flow of them coming out, sure it will be less people in time but I think a very nice solution would be the training program mentioned earlier. Nothing long and tedious but then again nothing any 2 year old can randomly click through and pass in 5 minutes. Also have it start on the very first game they play and don't let them play until they have completed it. One for the aliens and one for the marines. And as for the agressive admin part, might not work out well with people willing to learn, but having trouble with the controls.
The only words of wisdom I can say is "ride the storm out". The undesirable players will either a)learn b)stop playing or c)migrate to servers with other like-minded players.
This would work wonders. Honestly, this game has a very steep learning curve. Anyone coming into the game now has a huge curve to overcome if they want to play NS - they have to <b>hunt down</b> information about NS classic. You cannot hop into an NS classic server and ask people how to do stuff while playing, it just annoys them. There are no single player training maps, no in-game tutorial - hell, even if the manual was good it still isn't a substitute for trying things out for yourself. The very fact that the vast majority of players in NS are quite good players is, for many new players, not only overwhelming but frustrating too.
As difficult as it is, some sort of training missions would be superb. Even if they weren't mandatory, the majority of new players would use them.
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You say that, but remember the audience steam usually gets. Unless its entirely blatent that in order to understand the game you must go through the tutorial I doubt 20% will go through with it.
<img src='http://www.nspug.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
I belive that the main problem is that on the 'browse games' screen it actualy said 'easy to pick up and learn'. I mean WTH?
Obviously this was flayra's decision because it he was to have put 'Very steep learning curve and very complex gameplay' then people would pass it by and look at Sven-Coop and think 'oh this looks like a good pick up and play game'
OMG OMG NUBCAEKS!!!1 F4 F4
NS for is just NOT a point'n shoot game, teamwork/ambushing/building/strategies..!
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Hey...perhaps THATS the BUS >)
Because sometime they will ask themselves, "How can I be a better asset?", and you will be right there, with open arms, and idle hands ready to informate a fellow human.
And.... <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'>I HATE TFARMING COMMANDERS THAT GIVE MARINES LATE UPGRADES >:(</span>
Hopefully in the future Flayra will include adequate planning before opening the floodgates. Otherwise the water goes to waste.
CO_KILLMINDLESSLy
j/k
There's already a training map being built. i forget by who, check the mapping section Sadly i don't know how to get the nubs to play it though.
sadface
hopefully this is just a phase <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Another good thing new players can do is set up a LAN server with bots (we could put up a tutorial), this would allow them to learn maps and strategies while playing. And no one would be patronizing (or something) to them while they do so.
EDIT: werd! It's 4 AM, cut me some slack on my grammer... I'm too tired to edit it...
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=76128' target='_blank'>http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=76128</a>
Force them to enter the "Hazard Course" before enabling the Find servers option?
Give them something they had in no other mod, say "welcome to ns", be nice.