Wow, you found the forum but not the game <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Arg this game is complicated... Go to the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/' target='_blank'>NS homepage</a> click 'downloads' on the bar at the side. Download and install the '3.0 beta 1 client' from one of the sites under the listing. Then download and install the '3.0 beta 4 client' from one of the mirrors under THAT listing. Finally update your beta 4 by downloading and installing the '3.0 beta 4a client' from one of the mirrors under that listing...
If you can't figure all that crap out, check back every once and a while. At some point beta 5 will be realeased and it will all be one easy to find DL and install again.
douchebagatronCustom member titleJoin Date: 2003-12-20Member: 24581Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--QuoteBegin-migit_warrio+Aug 8 2004, 05:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (migit_warrio @ Aug 8 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> were can i install ns if i alredy have steam and half-life? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Go to the main page(http://www.natural-selection.org/) locate the 'downloads' page, do what it says and you shouldl have no problem installing it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin-6john6doe6+Aug 8 2004, 07:37 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (6john6doe6 @ Aug 8 2004, 07:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-migit_warrio+Aug 8 2004, 05:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (migit_warrio @ Aug 8 2004, 05:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> were can i install ns if i alredy have steam and half-life? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Go to the main page(http://www.natural-selection.org/) locate the 'downloads' page, do what it says and you shouldl have no problem installing it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The DL page is overly complicated at the moment, it take a total of 3 DL's to acctually get this game up and running, hopefully beta five will simplify this crap... With the new steam 'browse games' plug, the game should really be as accessable as possible for new players to the NS community, and expecially new players to the mod community, since we ARE the at the top of the list.
<!--QuoteBegin-BloodySloth+Aug 8 2004, 12:03 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (BloodySloth @ Aug 8 2004, 12:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Aug 8 2004, 11:43 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 8 2004, 11:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And I'm glad to know no one will debate with me tha the AI in doom 3 is some of the worst AI I've ever seen. HL1 easily beat the pants off of doom 3's AI. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, in my experience the zombie guys with guns seem reasonably intelligent. They dodge, find cover, all that happy stuff. Granted most of the enemies run at you blindly swiping their claws like savage beasts, but they <i>are</i> savage beasts. It's what I expect from demons born in the depths of hell. There's no doubt in my mind that HL2 will beat Doom 3's ai in every aspect, but Doom 3 is scripted so much I dont see their stupidity staring me in the face that often. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Come on, the soliders in hl1 not only ran behind cover, but tossed grenades out you, CHANGED locations of their cover, and took different firing patterns when attacking you...
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand Shoot Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal
Next,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Haha, WTH? Ignoramous? Wow, I am humbled by your obviously superior intellect...well except for the fact that it's spelled 'ignoramus'. I bought Half-Life 1 not too long after it came out and it was very boring if you ask me. I know a couple other people who bought it before/after me and they all felt the singleplayer was nothing special. Sure there were some cool presentation elements (I did like that scientist sitting in a dark room with the flashing monitor and a headcrab on his head) but ultimately it wasn't much fun to play. It wasn't super action-y or very story-driven and as I mentioned earlier (or even in another post I can't remember) the level design was atrocious just like HL2's seems to be. The game itself is great, not the singleplayer story.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell are you talking about? You have to play singleplayer before you can bash it. Saying the cool part is when a headcrab jumps on top of a scientists head is like... 2 minutes into an almost 20 hour game.
Wow. Just wow. You've obviously never seen the other really cool parts, like the rail cart rides, or the tenticle monster, or the giant aliens that fry you to death, or ... (instert 100 scenerio's here).
HL 1's singleplayer was hailed as the best singleplayer expierence for first person shooters, and in my oppinion has yet to be beaten. Doom 3 is good, but doesn't beat it.
Uh... Stop comparing these. You're not proving anything, and I have a feeling the whole conversation is moot because we're all buying all three titles...
I'm proving that it is moot to argue. All three are great or will be in their own respects. (I thought this was about HL2 screenies? GG to the threadjackers)
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited August 2004
Also, Doom3 is not written for 'next-gen' cards... otherwise, you wouldn't be able to run it on current-day. The developers DID think ahead. However, the reason for the 512MB requirement to play on Ultra is because the Ultra texturesets (the only thing that changes) are utterly hugemongous. Note that this means if you have a 256MB card, and you are willing to deal with slight slowdown, you can set your AGP memory window in the BIOS to 256 or 512, and have enough pseudo-memory to run D3 on Ultra.
Also, Doom3 does have a number of things that it cannot do, which HL2 can. Shinemaps being one of the most notably lacking... which is why D3 looks plasticine. Since D3 is OpenGL, and HL2 is DX9, there are extension calls that each utilize that the other cannot. The use of the D3 normalmaps is a good thing, but they do not fully utilize the five-plus step rendering that is made available with them. Normal, Glow, Shadow, Shine, and Glossmapping. And instead of using shadowmaps, D3 goes back to an old OpenGL trick... shadowmasking. Something even an original TNT can do, albeit slowly.
Perhaps this is just my own disposition shading things, but Doom3 hasn't managed to scare me yet. It's annoyingly dark as crap, even in the LIGHTED areas... but nothing's really given me shivers or made me panic. I've also noted <b>zero</b> GLSL pixel shaders in use, at any time. Note that normalmapping and shadowmasks are NOT pixel shaded functions. Nor are the sparks, flashlight, or specularity maps.. Hell, the original Silent Hill scared me sleepless, and this is nothing by comparison. I'm playing on Veteran, and have never run low on ammo... I'm past the Alpha Labs, and still have as-of-yet needed to punch anything, or whack anything with my flashlight.
Personally, I only picked up Doom3 as I know it's going to end up garnering at least a few mods, some of which I might want to play, down the road. I'm just waiting for HL2 to release... whereupon I'll probably vanish for a week or two, and come back very happy. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personally, I only picked up Doom3 as I know it's going to end up garnering at least a few mods, some of which I might want to play, down the road. I'm just waiting for HL2 to release... whereupon I'll probably vanish for a week or two, and come back very happy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Arywn: Yes, Half-Life's single-player was boring and stupid. That probably why it got over 50 Game-of-the-Year awards and the "Best Game Ever" award from Gamespot (I think).
Have you ever played HLDM? People certainly weren't buying Half-Life for the multiplayer experience.
Doom 3 and HL2 both have their merits. The thing is I like in HL2 is that it looks... <i>dynamic</i>. A blend of scripted and totally random chaos.
And HL SP was utterly revolutionary when it was released, being only the 2nd game on the market to have NPCs with dialogue and an astoundingly innovative array of weapons and enemies.
What blew me away when I first saw it though was how realistic the enviorments were, coming from an upbringing of Duke 3D and Quake 2, it was riveting to see a plausible enviorment in a FPS.
am I the only one who finds it funny that people are comparing D3 to HL2 like they just played both games <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Aug 9 2004, 02:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 9 2004, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Come on, the soliders in hl1 not only ran behind cover, but tossed grenades out you, CHANGED locations of their cover, and took different firing patterns when attacking you...
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand Shoot Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> dude... <b>zombies</b>
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like...
<!--QuoteBegin-Codeman+Aug 9 2004, 06:30 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Codeman @ Aug 9 2004, 06:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Aug 9 2004, 02:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 9 2004, 02:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Come on, the soliders in hl1 not only ran behind cover, but tossed grenades out you, CHANGED locations of their cover, and took different firing patterns when attacking you...
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand Shoot Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> dude... <b>zombies</b>
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah...the guys in hl1 that were pulling all those 1337 moves were highly trained government special forces. The zombies in hl1 didnt even shoot or hide...they just walked towards you.
i hope there are snarks in HL2, i wanna throw a load of snarks, start running, and blast em open with my shotty <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, so the zombies arn't ment to be that smart. Let's take the other hellspawn though, namely your most common enemy, the Imp.
In scripted sequences, you see Imps crawling on the ceiling, coming out of the walls, dropping down on soldiers from behind, in short, using tactics and the terrain. Yet every time these soldiers of hell spawn in they simply walk towards you shooting off fireballs, or crouching and leaping at you in close quaters combat.
Why on earth weren't these guys doing what they did in the scripted sequences? I should have been having to check the ceiling and walls, get scared to death by an imp sneaking behind me, not simply wait around a corner for the imp to stroll calmly into view. That is just pathetic. What's worse is that none of the other hellspawn act differantly; the best we get is the zombie soldiers taking cover, and wow are they easy to predict.
<!--QuoteBegin-raz0r+Aug 9 2004, 05:38 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (raz0r @ Aug 9 2004, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i hope there are snarks in HL2, i wanna throw a load of snarks, start running, and blast em open with my shotty <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> If there are not snarks.. I'm sure someone will add them in <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> And there is always the pheromone ball for the ant lions.. Thats a bit like snarks. Just bigger and more deadly...
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In scripted sequences, you see Imps crawling on the ceiling, coming out of the walls, dropping down on soldiers from behind, in short, using tactics and the terrain. Yet every time these soldiers of hell spawn in they simply walk towards you shooting off fireballs, or crouching and leaping at you in close quaters combat.
Why on earth weren't these guys doing what they did in the scripted sequences? I should have been having to check the ceiling and walls, get scared to death by an imp sneaking behind me, not simply wait around a corner for the imp to stroll calmly into view. That is just pathetic. What's worse is that none of the other hellspawn act differantly; the best we get is the zombie soldiers taking cover, and wow are they easy to predict. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I was disappointed about this too. I mean, the Lickers of Resident Evil 2, a Playstation 1 game, can utilise the walls and ceiling to attack, it's hardly a stretch to code for the wizards at Id.
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Actually, I've never once seen an imp crawling on the ceiling. I have seen him come out of holes, every single time AIDED BY SOMETHING THAT WOULD COUNT AS GROUND. Maybe its just me.
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Aug 9 2004, 03:30 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Aug 9 2004, 03:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Actually, I've never once seen an imp crawling on the ceiling. I have seen him come out of holes, every single time AIDED BY SOMETHING THAT WOULD COUNT AS GROUND. Maybe its just me. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It is just you. The first cutscene introducing the imp has him coming out of a pipe crevice, jumping to the wall and then climbing to the ceiling before dropping down. Open your eyes, man.
<!--QuoteBegin-Forlorn+Aug 8 2004, 10:12 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Aug 8 2004, 10:12 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Come on, the soliders in hl1 not only ran behind cover, but tossed grenades out you, CHANGED locations of their cover, and took different firing patterns when attacking you...
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand Shoot Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal . <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Doom3's zombie soldiers act more intelligent when it come to life preservation then your average human being in multiplayer games these days, and that's good enough for me. Note that I never said Doom 3 beat Half Life, or that it will beat HL2. I just said they were reasonably intelligent. That's it.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Come on, the soliders in hl1 not only ran behind cover, but tossed grenades out you, CHANGED locations of their cover, and took different firing patterns when attacking you...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
All of which happened in locations custom tailored to that behavior (or, perhaps, behavior custom tailored to the locations), when they weren't dropping grenades on their feet and curling up into a ball waiting to explode. It gave the illusion of being great AI far more than it actually was anything remarkable.
Games with truly abysmal AI (that can't even navigate) have shown how difficult it often is to get characters to interact with even flat floors and 90 degree corners on walls. It is exponentially more difficult to create functional AI that can then wrap itself around curves on walls, ceilings, etc. without any form of scripted/custom animation. I guarantee nothing is going to have true AI world/movement interaction of this level for a while - if you see it, it's going to be because they use stock artwork at set scales and maybe different textures and lighting and re-play the animation to match.
As for the HL2 AI vs. the Doom3 AI and scripting and non-scripting... Scripted events are necessary for a single player game. Having no scripted events results in unpredictable behavior and current AI simply cannot handle the more dramatic sequences. Valve is being very sketchy with their definition of scripting - just because there's no scripting language being used or HL-style scripted sequences in most places doesn't mean there's none there. HL had a thing called the ai_scripted_sequence. These were just natural AI behaviors, but still 'scripted.' Now these are hint nodes, which can be seen in editor shots and the like, which cause certain actions to happen at certain locations. This same thing can be/is handled by the scripting language in other engines. I personally would consider this to be very scripted - these are all pre-defined events that occur at pre-selected locations. Changing the name doesn't change how it works.
re: the g-man- I went off on a rant in another forum on how D3 stuff is being shredded with HL2 declared 'better' without holding HL2 to the same standard. The G-Man is an important and highly detailed character in HL2, with I think polycounts up to 10k. And -it- even has plenty noticeable polygon seams, fewer than Dr. Vance (his head is easily as 'blocky' around the edges as the Doom3 heads), and Alyx's hair is an even bigger culprit. The texture resolution is much higher (though the stretching on the eyelid is really poor <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), but how much of that shows lighting resolution down to the stubble on his chin? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway. 2 great games and people are complaining. Typical of the impatient and overdemanding gaming crowd, hehe <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Comments
Arg this game is complicated... Go to the <a href='http://www.natural-selection.org/' target='_blank'>NS homepage</a> click 'downloads' on the bar at the side. Download and install the '3.0 beta 1 client' from one of the sites under the listing. Then download and install the '3.0 beta 4 client' from one of the mirrors under THAT listing. Finally update your beta 4 by downloading and installing the '3.0 beta 4a client' from one of the mirrors under that listing...
If you can't figure all that crap out, check back every once and a while. At some point beta 5 will be realeased and it will all be one easy to find DL and install again.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Go to the main page(http://www.natural-selection.org/) locate the 'downloads' page, do what it says and you shouldl have no problem installing it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Go to the main page(http://www.natural-selection.org/) locate the 'downloads' page, do what it says and you shouldl have no problem installing it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The DL page is overly complicated at the moment, it take a total of 3 DL's to acctually get this game up and running, hopefully beta five will simplify this crap... With the new steam 'browse games' plug, the game should really be as accessable as possible for new players to the NS community, and expecially new players to the mod community, since we ARE the at the top of the list.
Actually, in my experience the zombie guys with guns seem reasonably intelligent. They dodge, find cover, all that happy stuff. Granted most of the enemies run at you blindly swiping their claws like savage beasts, but they <i>are</i> savage beasts. It's what I expect from demons born in the depths of hell. There's no doubt in my mind that HL2 will beat Doom 3's ai in every aspect, but Doom 3 is scripted so much I dont see their stupidity staring me in the face that often. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Come on, the soliders in hl1 not only ran behind cover, but tossed grenades out you, CHANGED locations of their cover, and took different firing patterns when attacking you...
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand
Shoot
Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal
Next,
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Haha, WTH? Ignoramous? Wow, I am humbled by your obviously superior intellect...well except for the fact that it's spelled 'ignoramus'. I bought Half-Life 1 not too long after it came out and it was very boring if you ask me. I know a couple other people who bought it before/after me and they all felt the singleplayer was nothing special. Sure there were some cool presentation elements (I did like that scientist sitting in a dark room with the flashing monitor and a headcrab on his head) but ultimately it wasn't much fun to play. It wasn't super action-y or very story-driven and as I mentioned earlier (or even in another post I can't remember) the level design was atrocious just like HL2's seems to be. The game itself is great, not the singleplayer story.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What the hell are you talking about? You have to play singleplayer before you can bash it. Saying the cool part is when a headcrab jumps on top of a scientists head is like... 2 minutes into an almost 20 hour game.
Wow. Just wow. You've obviously never seen the other really cool parts, like the rail cart rides, or the tenticle monster, or the giant aliens that fry you to death, or ... (instert 100 scenerio's here).
HL 1's singleplayer was hailed as the best singleplayer expierence for first person shooters, and in my oppinion has yet to be beaten. Doom 3 is good, but doesn't beat it.
Doom 3 did its job. Scare you
Half-Life 2 will do its Job, story, and to make you think.
Stalker will do all these and more
<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~charlie-yasuda/pics/gman.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~charlie-yasuda/pics/g2.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~charlie-yasuda/pics/g5.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
<img src='http://home.comcast.net/~charlie-yasuda/pics/g7.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
incredible detail.
Also, Doom3 does have a number of things that it cannot do, which HL2 can. Shinemaps being one of the most notably lacking... which is why D3 looks plasticine. Since D3 is OpenGL, and HL2 is DX9, there are extension calls that each utilize that the other cannot. The use of the D3 normalmaps is a good thing, but they do not fully utilize the five-plus step rendering that is made available with them. Normal, Glow, Shadow, Shine, and Glossmapping.
And instead of using shadowmaps, D3 goes back to an old OpenGL trick... shadowmasking. Something even an original TNT can do, albeit slowly.
Perhaps this is just my own disposition shading things, but Doom3 hasn't managed to scare me yet. It's annoyingly dark as crap, even in the LIGHTED areas... but nothing's really given me shivers or made me panic. I've also noted <b>zero</b> GLSL pixel shaders in use, at any time. Note that normalmapping and shadowmasks are NOT pixel shaded functions. Nor are the sparks, flashlight, or specularity maps..
Hell, the original Silent Hill scared me sleepless, and this is nothing by comparison.
I'm playing on Veteran, and have never run low on ammo... I'm past the Alpha Labs, and still have as-of-yet needed to punch anything, or whack anything with my flashlight.
Personally, I only picked up Doom3 as I know it's going to end up garnering at least a few mods, some of which I might want to play, down the road.
I'm just waiting for HL2 to release... whereupon I'll probably vanish for a week or two, and come back very happy. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I'm just waiting for HL2 to release... whereupon I'll probably vanish for a week or two, and come back very happy. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Seconded.
Have you ever played HLDM? People certainly weren't buying Half-Life for the multiplayer experience.
And HL SP was utterly revolutionary when it was released, being only the 2nd game on the market to have NPCs with dialogue and an astoundingly innovative array of weapons and enemies.
What blew me away when I first saw it though was how realistic the enviorments were, coming from an upbringing of Duke 3D and Quake 2, it was riveting to see a plausible enviorment in a FPS.
And you're lucky I didn't ban you. Read the sticky.</span>
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand
Shoot
Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude... <b>zombies</b>
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like...
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand
Shoot
Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
dude... <b>zombies</b>
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah...the guys in hl1 that were pulling all those 1337 moves were highly trained government special forces. The zombies in hl1 didnt even shoot or hide...they just walked towards you.
dude... zombies
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Ok, so the zombies arn't ment to be that smart. Let's take the other hellspawn though, namely your most common enemy, the Imp.
In scripted sequences, you see Imps crawling on the ceiling, coming out of the walls, dropping down on soldiers from behind, in short, using tactics and the terrain. Yet every time these soldiers of hell spawn in they simply walk towards you shooting off fireballs, or crouching and leaping at you in close quaters combat.
Why on earth weren't these guys doing what they did in the scripted sequences? I should have been having to check the ceiling and walls, get scared to death by an imp sneaking behind me, not simply wait around a corner for the imp to stroll calmly into view. That is just pathetic. What's worse is that none of the other hellspawn act differantly; the best we get is the zombie soldiers taking cover, and wow are they easy to predict.
If there are not snarks.. I'm sure someone will add them in <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
And there is always the pheromone ball for the ant lions.. Thats a bit like snarks. Just bigger and more deadly...
dude... zombies
shouldn't that word alone imply that they aren't all that smart. their aim is simply to kill you and devour your spleen or brains or something, not to act all 1337-soldier-like...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In scripted sequences, you see Imps crawling on the ceiling, coming out of the walls, dropping down on soldiers from behind, in short, using tactics and the terrain. Yet every time these soldiers of hell spawn in they simply walk towards you shooting off fireballs, or crouching and leaping at you in close quaters combat.
Why on earth weren't these guys doing what they did in the scripted sequences? I should have been having to check the ceiling and walls, get scared to death by an imp sneaking behind me, not simply wait around a corner for the imp to stroll calmly into view. That is just pathetic. What's worse is that none of the other hellspawn act differantly; the best we get is the zombie soldiers taking cover, and wow are they easy to predict. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I was disappointed about this too. I mean, the Lickers of Resident Evil 2, a Playstation 1 game, can utilise the walls and ceiling to attack, it's hardly a stretch to code for the wizards at Id.
It is just you. The first cutscene introducing the imp has him coming out of a pipe crevice, jumping to the wall and then climbing to the ceiling before dropping down. Open your eyes, man.
Compared to doom 3's zombies:
Stand
Shoot
Stay behind nearest object, if you move farther away, move closer to you.
.... it really is dismal
. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Doom3's zombie soldiers act more intelligent when it come to life preservation then your average human being in multiplayer games these days, and that's good enough for me. Note that I never said Doom 3 beat Half Life, or that it will beat HL2. I just said they were reasonably intelligent. That's it.
All of which happened in locations custom tailored to that behavior (or, perhaps, behavior custom tailored to the locations), when they weren't dropping grenades on their feet and curling up into a ball waiting to explode. It gave the illusion of being great AI far more than it actually was anything remarkable.
Games with truly abysmal AI (that can't even navigate) have shown how difficult it often is to get characters to interact with even flat floors and 90 degree corners on walls. It is exponentially more difficult to create functional AI that can then wrap itself around curves on walls, ceilings, etc. without any form of scripted/custom animation. I guarantee nothing is going to have true AI world/movement interaction of this level for a while - if you see it, it's going to be because they use stock artwork at set scales and maybe different textures and lighting and re-play the animation to match.
As for the HL2 AI vs. the Doom3 AI and scripting and non-scripting... Scripted events are necessary for a single player game. Having no scripted events results in unpredictable behavior and current AI simply cannot handle the more dramatic sequences. Valve is being very sketchy with their definition of scripting - just because there's no scripting language being used or HL-style scripted sequences in most places doesn't mean there's none there. HL had a thing called the ai_scripted_sequence. These were just natural AI behaviors, but still 'scripted.' Now these are hint nodes, which can be seen in editor shots and the like, which cause certain actions to happen at certain locations. This same thing can be/is handled by the scripting language in other engines. I personally would consider this to be very scripted - these are all pre-defined events that occur at pre-selected locations. Changing the name doesn't change how it works.
re: the g-man- I went off on a rant in another forum on how D3 stuff is being shredded with HL2 declared 'better' without holding HL2 to the same standard. The G-Man is an important and highly detailed character in HL2, with I think polycounts up to 10k. And -it- even has plenty noticeable polygon seams, fewer than Dr. Vance (his head is easily as 'blocky' around the edges as the Doom3 heads), and Alyx's hair is an even bigger culprit. The texture resolution is much higher (though the stretching on the eyelid is really poor <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo--> ), but how much of that shows lighting resolution down to the stubble on his chin? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Anyway. 2 great games and people are complaining. Typical of the impatient and overdemanding gaming crowd, hehe <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->