What Maps Are Missing

GSHound

<div class="IPBDescription">2 cents worth</div> Hi, I'm a relatively new mapper. I am, however, an experienced gamer and enjoy the small things in maps. I've been looking at alot of maps and over the course of my NS career I've played many, also. They all seem to be missing one thing; an interactive environment.

What do I mean by "interactive environment"?

Well... it's pretty simple. I'm looking for more breakable objects in game that could yield a certain advantage or disadvantage...

For example - navigable pipes that can be shot down, thus hindering alien movement.

On this note: I don't remember the name but the map had a weldable point which forced a laser beams to blow up a new way to get into a hive.

Turning on lights through weldable means, in order to add a little strategy. (I've never "turned on" lights in NS before.) Or if you're alien, destroy the light's power source, thus turning em off. It's tough when you can't see the enemy. It's also nice when you can... you know, when the lights are on?


Other things I can think of that could make the environment just a little more interactive... perhaps raisable water levels (impossible?)... maybe breakable walls... more weldable areas yielding different results...

There's alot you can do to make maps more interactive...

What do you guys think?

brute_force

Sure, there are many ways to make interactive levels, the problem is entity count. I mean, if you want a good looking effect for your weldable, I reckon it could take quite a few entities. Since we've got a pretty strict limit of 275 entities, it might be impossible for the mapper to make these things after he has done his map. It's a nice idea, sure. I think it's better if we wait for NS2 on some other engine where we aren't as limited as the Half Life engine. Although it would be nice to see some more interactive stuff in maps.

edit: typo

Reebdoog

The other problem is in order to achieve this, the map HAS to be unbalanced at some point, either before or after the action. As a mapper, you want to have a great looking map, and a fun one, but it need to be balanced as well. If it can be pulled off without making any unbalence, then kudos to the mapper. And yeh, entity limits hurt a bit as well.

Lt_Gravity

the most important reason against this is the fact, that new players dont know how this would work. maybe they could destroy a match by mistake. "dont press the red button, pal." - "this one?" *presses the button*

but we should be honest: it is possible to add a lot more interactivity to maps, you talk about entity counts as the limit would be 20 entities per map. only take 10 entities from the official limit and place them well and there might be the possibility, that the players love thos features. example: a standart door that opens when used, is only one entity.
this one entity can change the gameplay maybe of the whole map. just remember the 3 doors on ns_tanith at the cargo storage (one wa weldable), after they had been removed, the maps gameplay changed, the aliens have less chances in this area.
an elevator can be a very interesting alternative to a ladder. a ladder takes only one entity but often are a obstacle for onos-players. a well crafted elevator can be lot more interesting. shure, you will at least need 4 entities, one for the moving platform, two path_corner and at least one for te buttons (2 separated buttons tied to ONE button will prevent some negative sideeffects of the elevator).

Im a big fan of interactivity but this is shurely an art. so one of my next projects will be a small map as a "combined project". maybe there will be a lot of releases necessary to create an interesting overall geameplay. but I think its worth it.

brute_force

<!--QuoteBegin-Lt.Gravity+Jul 29 2004, 05:27 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Gravity @ Jul 29 2004, 05:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> the most important reason against this is the fact, that new players dont know how this would work. maybe they could destroy a match by mistake. "dont press the red button, pal." - "this one?" *presses the button*

but we should be honest: it is possible to add a lot more interactivity to maps, you talk about entity counts as the limit would be 20 entities per map. only take 10 entities from the official limit and place them well and there might be the possibility, that the players love thos features. example: a standart door that opens when used, is only one entity.
this one entity can change the gameplay maybe of the whole map. just remember the 3 doors on ns_tanith at the cargo storage (one wa weldable), after they had been removed, the maps gameplay changed, the aliens have less chances in this area.
an elevator can be a very interesting alternative to a ladder. a ladder takes only one entity but often are a obstacle for onos-players. a well crafted elevator can be lot more interesting. shure, you will at least need 4 entities, one for the moving platform, two path_corner and at least one for te buttons (2 separated buttons tied to ONE button will prevent some negative sideeffects of the elevator).

Im a big fan of interactivity but this is shurely an art. so one of my next projects will be a small map as a "combined project". maybe there will be a lot of releases necessary to create an interesting overall geameplay. but I think its worth it. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, 1 interactive event can change parts of a map, but what this guy here wanted (what I interpeted it as anyway) was a completely interactive map where you can pretty much destroy all the doors, make new paths to areas, seal off hallways and rooms, activating cranes that lift away cargo so that you can access a new resnode, etc. By the way, an elevator can be done with a func_door instead to save entities, just fyi. And yes, you're gonna have a very hard time trying to balance this.

jplove

All of the original maps back from the NS 1.x days had 'atmosphere' in them. That's exactly what's missing from the current official maps. Most of the co_ maps have practically no atmosphere to them at all. And the ns_ maps in 3.x don't compare to what they were like back in the 1.x days. Blame it on what you want, the atmosphere that was once there is gone.

Mendasp

Back in 1.0 there wasn't any entity limits set...

With 2.0 there was an Entity limit, so the mappers had to reduce the entity counts, with 3.0 the entity limit is even smaller, so... they had to remove even more entities...

So, well, if you want to play with 400 ping... load the 1.0 maps, NS is backwards compatible with old maps...

Crispy

It's funny you say that. I was hoping to do much the same thing in my map. I plan (entity limit depending) to have a section of the map lit solely by emergency lighting. This would cause initial problems for any marines trying to move on hives too quickly and should iron out rushing problems that usually result in frustration for one of the teams. The marines will still be able to rush, just at a disadvantage through the middle ground or them having to sacrifice 10 res (or multiples thereof) for a welder and perhaps a few lives to correct the problem. The main drawback to this is that it may result in an easier game for the aliens. I doubt that this could somehow be unfairly and accidentally exploited by new players since the Commander must dish out the supplies. If anything it'll probably just make them think twice about not sticking with their more experienced team-mates (and less res will be given to the alien team).

Swinging things in the opposite direction is a forcefield (activated by welding) to allow only marines through it. If the situation is in the aliens' favour and needs to be balanced I can incorporate this to even the gameplay by cutting off a route to the marines' base (assuming they stay there).

If the aforementioned light situation can be achieved the marines would be less successful at relocating to take a hive or significant vantage point in the initial stages of the game (I will not be having a 'double res' feature in this level). The only problem with this is that marine teams may feel that the mapper has too much control over their movement and decision-making.
I am going to try to implement as many of these interactive elements to the map as possible (without going overboard). Providing I can think of techniques to give both lifeforms an advantage I can pick and choose which to leave in the map as it goes through beta-testing.

Sound good to you?

P.S. I'm looking for modellers to create some custom models for my map (and possibly texture artists too). If anyone is interested send me a PM.

ns_tbc@20% (tbc = to be confirmed)