Soouuunnnd Cards?
TychoCelchuuu
Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
Anememone Join Date: 2002-03-23 Member: 345Members
in Off-Topic
<div class="IPBDescription">Echo, echo, echo.....</div> So I was reading the 3d card topic, and Talesin said stuff about how the Audigys and their ilk are useless and just as good as a PCI16. Is this true? I've got a PCI64 sitting around but I took it out because I figured even my Asus P4P800's onboard sound would do 5.1 better. Am I wrong? Will the PCI64 work better? Should I just sit tight with onboard sound, or go out and buy the soundcard I've been meaning to get?
Comments
The first was a low level engine that used a single Direct Sound buffer while I did all the mixing, processing, and sample synthesis (sine,square,sawtooth,noise(white,pink,brown),etc.).
The second was a Direct Sound wrapper where I set up an interface for playing wav and ogg files. It managed 3D as well as 2D and managed all the buffers and resources available with a dynamic level of detail system based on priorites and distances (for 3D). It also chose the appropriate times for streaming buffer and hardware vs. software support. EAX1 and Zoom were also supported for FX.
The third (working on as we speak) is an FMOD wrapper. It takes advantage of everything FMOD provides while simplifying the interface and providing useful macros.
So back to the topic. YES, YOUR SOUND CARD MAKES A BIG DIFFERENCE!!! Well for the last 2 engines at least, I found it very important when testing it on different machines. Generally it comes down to either supporting an effect in hardware, software, or not at all. So even if you have mild hardware support, if there are too few buffers on your card, most games will not put some in hardware and others in software... they will put them ALL in software.
The reason for this is that calculations in software are heavily fudged, because it would be too slow to be worth it otherwise. So the same operation in software (especailly 3D positional calculations) will sound different than in hardware. So to use both would have an odd result when you can hear the difference between the HW ones and the SW ones at the same time.
The second bad case is that they will not be processed at all (which is the case with most EAX1,2,3) stuff. So those cool echo sounds in a cave turn into the bland dry sounds of the orignal foley work. Totally ruins any atmospheric choices the sound designer has made.
Finally, streaming sounds (in most cases music and ambience) are often processed in a separate thread so that general lag won't cause the music to skip. If these updates are being done on a separate processor, it leaves the thread free to do whatever and prevents windows from stealing time slices from your game.
Conclusion: Unless you're one of those people who plays a game with the sound muted... get a nice sound card. They're not that expensive and it adds a little extra sweetness to most games.
1 and 2 imho aren't that much different. The major feature of 3 is sound occlusion. This means that the geometry of a room can be taken into consederation when processing the volume of a 3D sound. Basically that means that if you are 10 feet away on the other side of a wall than the origin it will sound quieter than if you are 10 feet away in the same room. I belive transmission factors can be assigned to walls also (so that wood occludes in a different way than steal). Honestly I haven't dealt with those features just yet... only read about it.
Um, so... just having EAX1 is a decent start. MOST things that a sound designer will want to do (echo,reverb,distortion,flanging,etc.) are there. 2 adds a couple cool things that are mostly unused. 3 has the awesome potential of occlusion... but I don't think many games take advantage of it. So go cheap and get an Audigy 1. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Edit: Quite possibly I'll just buy <a href='http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=29-102-165&depa=1' target='_blank'>this little beauty.</a>
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that EAX 3 stuff sounds DAMN sexeh
Responding from another point of view here - that of a composer:
I know jack **** about coding audio engines, but I do recognize quality, and I have to tell you, get as good a card as you can with your budget. Then get good speakers (or headphones if the neighbours hate you). With cheap, badly built cards you might not be irked only by driver conflicts, but bad hardware as well. Nothing's more vexing than hearing funny pops and hisses from the speakers because the speaker jack is of substandard quality.
To be more specific: Now that the Audigy2 is out, don't bother buying an Audigy1, Live or anything older than that, because the cheapest Audigy2 sells for about 50$. Do please hop to <a href='http://www.soundblaster.com' target='_blank'>http://www.soundblaster.com</a> and compare the hardware specs of the different available Audigy cards to find one for your needs. Technically they all run the same drivers and by that extension are ok for all games that support the newest features of the Soundblaster series. On the hardware side, the biggest differences are recording quality and signal to noise ratio. Unless you plan to compose music or have an unhealthy hifi-fetish, the low budget Audigy2 cards should suit your needs perfectly.
On a side note, had I bought an Audigy1 when it came out, I'd feel so shafted right now. Honestly speaking Creative did a real nasty thing back then, and Audigy2 is the card Audigy1 was supposed to be according to the press releases.
While I'm only talking Creative products here, I don't see why some other manufacturer's SB-compatible sound card wouldn't work just as well. Don't take my word for it though. Rather go check out hardware review sites to find more info on them. Remember, always before purchasing a sound card, go to the manufacturer's site and check out the technical specs. Only after comparing them to other products on the market should you decide which one to purchase.
Thus has spoken a happy owner of SB Audigy2 ZS Platinum Pro.
I said that the Audigy and Audigy2 are simply SBLives with a few more connectors. Which is effectively true, as they ALL use the same damn core.. the EMU10K1.
The majority of 'EAX3' is in the software.
And as noted in a few other threads, for best occlusion tech, you have to use an Aureal Vortex or Vortex 2... which there are no drivers for under WinXP, as Creative bought the tech (after long-term litigating Aureal specifically to bankrupt them and buy/sit on the tech, as it only needed two speakers to do EVERYTHING a 7.1 rig can do now.. and creative MOSTLY sells speakers, <b>not</b> sound cards).
Any Creative card BEFORE the EMU10K1 chip will work fine with an Ath64. However, they're old and the drivers are none-too-often updated. I much prefer a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz.
omg, drool, i want your soundcard <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo-->
One word: eargasm.
One word: eargasm.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
w00t, new sig