Bobby Fischer Arrested
eggmac
Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14246Members
Join Date: 2003-03-03 Member: 14246Members
in Discussions
<div class="IPBDescription">chess-genius caught in Japan</div> One of the greatest chess-players of the last century, Bobby Fischer who won against Spassky in 1972 and was the first American to win the world chess champonship, was arrested in Japan.
<a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3900205.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3900205.stm</a>
What happened? Bobby Fischer was persecuted by the USA since 1992. He went to Yugoslavia to fight a rematch against Spassky, which he won as well and gained over 3 Million Dollar. A national hero, one would think. But unfortunately for him, politics dominates everything and just in that year the relationship between the USA and Yugoslavia got worse. Thus a sancation was proclaimed, which apparently also affected Fischer, not allowing him to go to the tournament. He disobeyed and has been persecuted by US authorities since then.
When I read this, my first association was the policy of Soviet Russia in 1937 under Stalin when nobody was allowed to participate in any congresses, tournaments etc. abroad or else was imprisoned.
What is happening in the USA, the self-proclaimed leader of freedom? Or is it just me who is shocked by this news?
<a href='http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3900205.stm' target='_blank'>http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3900205.stm</a>
What happened? Bobby Fischer was persecuted by the USA since 1992. He went to Yugoslavia to fight a rematch against Spassky, which he won as well and gained over 3 Million Dollar. A national hero, one would think. But unfortunately for him, politics dominates everything and just in that year the relationship between the USA and Yugoslavia got worse. Thus a sancation was proclaimed, which apparently also affected Fischer, not allowing him to go to the tournament. He disobeyed and has been persecuted by US authorities since then.
When I read this, my first association was the policy of Soviet Russia in 1937 under Stalin when nobody was allowed to participate in any congresses, tournaments etc. abroad or else was imprisoned.
What is happening in the USA, the self-proclaimed leader of freedom? Or is it just me who is shocked by this news?
Comments
I'd really like to read more about this guy. In fact, I wanted to so much I went and googled him.
<a href='http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2580826' target='_blank'>FOXNEWS</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The U.S. government accused Fischer of violating U.N. sanctions against Yugoslavia by playing the match. The sanctions were imposed on the former Yugoslavia for provoking warfare in neighboring Bosnia-Herzegovina.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, based on that, I think they should haul him back to America and prosecute him. The Americans didnt put those sanctions down against Yugoslavia for a few laughs, they did it to punish that nation and he deliberately disobeyed. You break laws, you get punished. Its those laws that protect your precious freedom, dont equate breaking them as though it's somehow for some noble ideal.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->While incognito, Fischer intermittently gave interviews with a radio station in the Philippines, often digressing into anti-Jewish rants and accusing American officials of hounding him.
In the radio interviews, he praised the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, saying America should be "wiped out," and described Jews as "thieving, lying bastards." His mother was Jewish.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In an unrelated note, I found more further down the page to endear this man to me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->. I'm not exactly sure what Yugoslavia did in 1992, but I do know that it was in that area that a whole stack of ethnic cleansing was going on until finally someone figured out the UN didnt have the balls to deal with it and NATO put an end to it. I'm pretty sure the Slavs were doing something evil and thus the sanctions.
EDIT Something else I couldnt help noticing was the way you managed to work in the Stalinist reference. It always seemed strange to me that those highly critical of America try to take the awful doings and repressions of the two most odious regimes (Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany) and stick them back on the Americans, when in BOTH cases it was the Americans themselves that spearheaded the effort that left both on the ash heap of history. Then I read this little gem from the author of 1984 - George Orwell:
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The majority of pacifists either belong to obscure religious sects or are simply humanitarians who object to taking life and prefer not to follow their thoughts beyond that point. But there is a minority of intellectual pacifists, whose real though unacknowledged motive appears to be hatred of western democracy and admiration for totalitarianism. <b>Pacifist propaganda usually boils down to saying that one side is as bad as the other</b>, but if one looks closely at the writing of the younger intellectual pacifists, one finds that they do not by any means express impartial disapproval <b>but are directed almost entirely against Britain and the United States</b> ?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That certainly cleared up several things in my mind.
International sanctions are supposed to hurt the targetted state's regime , and its offensive capabilities. Though I think that most sanctions besides weapon / ammunition embargoes are criminal , forbiding mere tournaments is ridiculous beyond belief. Let's imagine a yugoslavian chess champion actually won the match. Would it dramatically support Serbia's war effort ? I think not. I can hardly imagine Milosevic mentionning the chess champion in his hateful speeches to prove that Serbia is a superior nation.
When laws are absurd , you ought to break them , and change them.
And Marine , your quote is way out of date. Orwell was speaking of the <b>stalinistic</b> "pacifists" , who used the argument of peace to criticize the containment policy. It is completely irrelevant now.
I can already hear your zealous attempt at defending it - aren't we modern pacifists trying to halt the expansion of democracy by dismissing thoses excuses for a war justification ? Now look at the current world diplomacy , do an in-depth search for once. Then go ahead and tell me we westerners are the good guys.
International sanctions are supposed to hurt the targetted state's regime , and its offensive capabilities. Though I think that most sanctions besides weapon / ammunition embargoes are criminal , forbiding mere tournaments is ridiculous beyond belief. Let's imagine a yugoslavian chess champion actually won the match. Would it dramatically support Serbia's war effort ? I think not. I can hardly imagine Milosevic mentionning the chess champion in his hateful speeches to prove that Serbia is a superior nation.
When laws are absurd , you ought to break them , and change them.
And Marine , your quote is way out of date. Orwell was speaking of the <b>stalinistic</b> "pacifists" , who used the argument of peace to criticize the containment policy. It is completely irrelevant now.
I can already hear your zealous attempt at defending it - aren't we modern pacifists trying to halt the expansion of democracy by dismissing thoses excuses for a war justification ? Now look at the current world diplomacy , do an in-depth search for once. Then go ahead and tell me we westerners are the good guys. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sanctions can be for any number of things, one of which is just a "We really REALLY dont approve of what you are doing, so no trade, no entertainment, and no sporting events will we have anything to do with in relation to your nation."
These sanctions were set up to discourage the Slavs from starting wars and contributing to genocide. Its not like it was an awful, awful, naughty and unjust thing for the Americans to do. He broke these sanctions in what seems to me to be a deliberate up yours to his country. I dont believe its an absurd law, and I dont believe that if a law is absurd you have the right to break it.
What if I decided the law against murder was absurd? Is that okay for me to break it too now? Who decides if the law is absurd or not? No - not good enough. If a law is absurd, you tackle it by attempting to change it, not just break it at any given opportunity, especially for your own personal benefit.
Well, I certainly didnt realise the context of Orwell's quote, but even so I dont believe it to be no longer relevant. I've met plenty of pacifists who cant see much further than a general opposition to taking life for any reason, and at uni I now meet plenty of intellectual pacificists who hate Western democracies. Constant comparisons are made between the US and totalitarianism, claims that Bush/Sharon are just as bad as Hitler, and impartiality seems to be a foreign concept to them. Everywhere I find posters denouncing the US war in Iraq, but I have yet to see any criticism of the Iranians, the North Korea's etc.
That quote reads to me like he goes to my uni.
I dont believe westerners are always the good guys. I was disgusted at the American interference in democratic Southern American nations, and have read enough to convince me that by no means is the West a shining beacon of truth, goodness and morality. However, if the right thing is going to be done in this world, if someone is going to fight for those living in repression and misery, then it sure as hell wont be done by the UN, and it certainly wont be done by those the West have designed its enemy.
I refuse to hear the failures of the West constantly brought up and thrown in our faces as a reason why we shouldnt try now.
It is everyone's duty to break unjust laws. The "just following orders" arguments didn't help the nazi's cases much at the Nuremberg trial.
If you're living in a democratic state , all the more reasons. With good media coverage , your congress might remove the said absurd laws. By absurd , I mean against the common sense : try defending your right to murder , it would entertain people but nothing more.
There's a reason pacifists are constantly "whining" and criticizing the western leaders. Let's look at 2 cases of nuclear test moratorium breaking , in 1995 : in France and China. People were demonstrating all over the french territory , to the point of riots at Papeete (that's some militant pacifism <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> j/k , they were mostly fed clich?s about the nukes , keep in mind the nuclear test atol was named Mururoa - "the island of the greater secret") ; Greenpeace's Rainbow Warrior harassed the french navy by entering the forbidden zone , and was caught in the end. After that , the tests didn't last much , and the research on miniaturized nukes was abandonned (afaik) ; Chirac's reputation was jeopardized (hence the new government in 1997)
Now , people tried to do the same with China. Greenpeace deployed a banner in Beijing. It was held for about 30 seconds. China went on with nuclear tests.
The street's pressure is only effective in democratic states. People demonstrate against their elected leader's decisions because they have a hope they will change them. I doubt Saddam cared about anyone's opinion when he was invading Kuwait.
Bush decided to declare war despite the huge international turmoil , it shows how little he cares about his people and the world opinion. He wasn't elected by the majority of the americans after all. America is almost on the slippery slope that leads to a dictatorship.
Bobby does not deserve to be prosecuted and if anything deserves a pardon from the President himself.
Though it might be warranted, its not going to happen. Bobby Fischer is a notorious anti-semetic nutcase. No one is going to get themselves politically wrapped up in that.
hmm, i think i might be a little angry after that...