TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited July 2004
You know out of the days you were pugging, I didn't see one single admin ticket, which is what I get when you go /msg pugbot .admin Hey EliteClanVetAsshole went fade instead of permagorging. You can't **** and complain when you didn't use the process available to fix it. I'm one of the more active admins and I will even go into a pug and see what's going on, removing the offending **** right away if I see they did something wrong. All PUGs aren't created equal, and there's nothing we can do about it. I've had plenty of great PUGs, and they were how I started my clan experience. Don't expect a lot, they're just a way to learn how to play the game at a higher level.
Forlorn, I reject your statement on PUGs. The amount of teamwork is what the individuals on the team put into it. I know I lay out a clear plan, including where people need to be at when the game starts, and they better stick to it. Once the game moves in some, one person just coordinates everyone around. I don't see how that's "no teamwork". If you're a lazy bum and just want to run around and kill stuff, then sure, there's no teamwork. Those of us that bother to put forth a little effort do much better than any given pub server.
Runs into maintance, kills a skulk Skulk replys "Omg WTH?, whats that symbol mean next to your name?" Me replys "It means im a Veteran" Skulk replys "More like you have got scripts and a massive config" Me says "sigh... thats harsh" ^^^ Is happening in the EU a lot now. If you get a kill on a public its like "Omg you must be a scripter!!"
Other example - from Thursday 1st July.
/me joins marine game thats been going 30 minutes game Ends.
New game starts and i jump in the CC hoping to show people how to comm. Just after getting people to run out after res nodes, and getting lvl 3 weapons and HA researched. "Command has been ejected." Some pubber jumps in the chair.. gets everybody ramboing into a fade, because he does not know about better guns or how to drop HA, despite telling him. Manages to medspam 100 res of medpacks on a mate. /me sighs again - I absolutely love comming, because you get to see what people can do. However being ejected pisses me RIGHT off. Most aggrivating thing ever. Its pathetic, your just winning a game, and pubbers eject you. Makes me constantly want to leave NS.
Skill levels, cooperation and simple listening, just isnt there in public play anymore. People are just not bothered. I know people are saying in this topic that we should help public players.... but has anyone got the time and attitude to be bothered with them, with their lack of cooperation.
Currently in the EU there is about 4 active clans.... Most are playing SWG now, or some other MMORPG like FFXI. Its alright talking about the american scene, but the EU one is getting pretty scarce to.
I don't think the clan scene is dying. I know of 6 new clans on the verge of joining CAL right now. The upper delta division is in trouble, everyone keeps consolidating to exi. But I still manage to find scrims every day against omega clans. At worst, I think the clan scene is just kinda re-organizing right now.
But what I would like to see is some of these pub clans join CAL and scrim more. There are lots of these guys, they have a clan, but the entire purpose of the clan is just to be regulars on that particular server. Seems a waste to me.
I also know a cs clan just starting to break into ns. They are CAL intermediate and used to scrimming over and over again. Every time they scrim us they want a rematch despite losing. We don't take it easy on them, and they know they will lose, yet they keep it up because that is the way to learn. Alot of pub clans lose and give up after one match.
If you do start a clan, or your clan decides to scrim, you go to #findnsscrim and scrim a team from there just remember, the only clans looking for scrims there are generally going to be better(because they scrim). So expect to lose and try to learn from it.
TheAdj', I'm the wrong person to point the finger at. As you know, I had just started pugging. What I entered into (as near as I can tell) is a climate, not a storm. Where were the regs of #nspug who should've reported these smacktards before? Not on the channel, or they probably would've joined the games anyway. Everytime I was around, it took a very long time to assemble a large enough group at least one-quarter composed of idiots. Seems to me pugging is declining just as much as clanning is, and judging from the sentiments voiced by other people while I was there, many of them regulars, the user base agrees with me.
TheAdjHe demanded a cool forum title of some type.Join Date: 2004-05-03Member: 28436Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation
edited July 2004
IceBaron is correct, the clan scene isn't dying. It thinned out due to clan politics, game issues, and general neglect that happens when the game becomes stale. People stop scrimming and caring. Omega still looks healthy, but Delta/Gamma is looking rather ragged. Most of Season 2's Delta clans have disentegrated, which is a hard blow. Next season should see a pickup again, since it looks like work is finally resuming on NS. Those of you looking for real competition, get some friends and start a clan. Go find scrims on #findnsscrim, get your **** handed to you several times, learn how it works, then scrim some more until you start winning. Then you'll know how NS is supposed to be played.
Bistro: You'd be amazed how often I hear "pugging sucks" or "the pug scene is getting crappy", yet the same people that flame it still do it several times a day. It's nothing new. My first PUG was terrible, my team sucked and the other team had a pair of #cri guys that tore us apart. I didn't let that or the subsequent sucky PUGs deter me. Eventually I figured out that my skill was getting better, and suddenly PUGs started to become cool. I've had a couple of PUGs that were up there in memory with scrims I've had in terms of fun. Come on tonight, I'm going to get several of the other admins and we're going to get some serious PUGs going.
imho, and in my experience, the vast majority of the clans i've met have been either silent (they prolly have turned off text, or are using teamspeak) or quite respectable. it's the very minor minority that really ruin your day. and it's mostly because they'll walk all over you and be arrogant. it's kinda salt in the wounds.
from what i've heard from some fellow fogies who have gone into comp play, for them, it's an amaaazing experience. the game is much much tighter, the competitition fierce. if you play to win, to play a very very tight game of ns, then go for it. there will be nay sayers (admittedly a minority) and if you are not too concerned with what the squeaky wheel says, keep at it.
i for one realised NS dire situation, its pathetic really, CS did prolly 23% of the work NS ppl make, yet they get called the greatest online mod ever made. lets see CS have structers, lets see CS have 2 diffrent races lets see... wait, whats that in the corner... OMG!!! <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> A NEW SMILEY!!! wow... see, unknown worlds put all this work in, and they get no $@#%n publicity or fame
i am constantly trying to get ppl to play NS, but all i get it "that game is for noobs" right there, in public school, one time in my life, i wished the old dink sinclare was there now, if you will excuse me, i have to play with this until im happy as my old budgie was with the mirror
Honestly how does this thread continue? It's accomplishing nothing. Hell you guys are even arguing over nothing you just keep going and going and going.........
<!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 2 2004, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 2 2004, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i for one realised NS dire situation, its pathetic really, CS did prolly 23% of the work NS ppl make, yet they get called the greatest online mod ever made. lets see CS have structers, lets see CS have 2 diffrent races lets see... wait, whats that in the corner... OMG!!! <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> A NEW SMILEY!!! wow... see, unknown worlds put all this work in, and they get no $@#%n publicity or fame
i am constantly trying to get ppl to play NS, but all i get it "that game is for noobs" right there, in public school, one time in my life, i wished the old dink sinclare was there now, if you will excuse me, i have to play with this until im happy as my old budgie was with the mirror
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> dumb emotocon limit X8 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Without counter strike, NS would have like 100 followers instead of the 10000+
Love it or hate it, CS helped the popularity of ALL half life mods.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 2 2004, 07:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 2 2004, 07:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-IBT+Jul 2 2004, 03:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (IBT @ Jul 2 2004, 03:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> i for one realised NS dire situation, its pathetic really, CS did prolly 23% of the work NS ppl make, yet they get called the greatest online mod ever made. lets see CS have structers, lets see CS have 2 diffrent races lets see... wait, whats that in the corner... OMG!!! <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> A NEW SMILEY!!! wow... see, unknown worlds put all this work in, and they get no $@#%n publicity or fame
i am constantly trying to get ppl to play NS, but all i get it "that game is for noobs" right there, in public school, one time in my life, i wished the old dink sinclare was there now, if you will excuse me, i have to play with this until im happy as my old budgie was with the mirror
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> dumb emotocon limit X8 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Without counter strike, NS would have like 100 followers instead of the 10000+
Love it or hate it, CS helped the popularity of ALL half life mods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> good point. never thought of that.
I really have been trying to hold back from posting in this topic but i can no longer control myself. Generally I stay away from these forums because of the lurkers who basically wait to post totally off topic and pointless things after very well thought out idea. Anyway jB's heart is in the right place but really its not needed. If one thing occured in the clan community im sure a lot more clans would last longer and or be created. Mainly Peoples attitudes towards one another as a whole. Like exo made this clan td which i joined and some other people. Its been hard to keep the clan going mainly because everyone in the clan community is so hard on new formulations of older players. Because all the old stigmas of whatever they did a year ago are still following them around.
Back on track to what im trying to say is, try to treat whatever clan your facing with a little bit of respect. If clan leaders really stepped up and or tryed to keep there members to this ns might return to being fun again competativly. Instead of putting a band aid on the problem of the clan community why not try to fix it. Quality is better then quantity.
anyway take it however you take it ... this is how i feel.
I agree with Lego. This community has been its own victim of its occurrences from the past. Most players that have played from the first betas (that still play) have atleast someone on them that others in the community love to use against them. People constantly bring up old happenings, there for creating "drama". Now many agree, this community is just one giant drama-fest. People feel the need to talk **** to get a head in the community, when they can't back it up with skill. I mean how often do you see skilled players such as romano, mustang or magitek talking ****? They never do. This is because the have skill, they don't need to talk about how the "owned someone in scrims" or create drama. The most of the **** talking is done by unskilled players that want to try and make a new for them self, in any way possible. If we would all just stop making unnesessary comments then it would just be a lot better.
I also believe quanity leads to quality. The more clans that stick it out, the better the quality of those teams who last a few months. Those teams die and start new ones.
This is basically how it works for all games, because leagues do not force teams to stick together, so if someone has a bad match or whatever that person can blame their teammates and flake out, to another team.
NS will still have a decent clan following, however, it would be nice to see newer fresher people in there.
Whats happening is an issue related to the small number of clans in the NS playerbase. When one clan scrims as much as it can it might encounter the same 3 clans it has been scrimming for months. With such a small number of people to scrim with you end up seeing a number of similar strategies employed.
When NS hits the steam menu I expect to see a lot more nubs, a lot more clans, and a number of different playstyles. Right now the issue is that everyone seems to be playing the same strategies and such. When new peeps are added there will be radical clans on the cutting edge of cleverness. <---i like that line.
<!--QuoteBegin-Firewater+Jul 3 2004, 10:42 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Firewater @ Jul 3 2004, 10:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I also believe quanity leads to quality. The more clans that stick it out, the better the quality of those teams who last a few months. Those teams die and start new ones.
This is basically how it works for all games, because leagues do not force teams to stick together, so if someone has a bad match or whatever that person can blame their teammates and flake out, to another team.
NS will still have a decent clan following, however, it would be nice to see newer fresher people in there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is true but I feel that as some of the bigger clans leave the scene for the moment that other smaller clans that are good now get a chance to be on the high ranking list.
Also, the thing most of you fail to realize is that clans are die, yes, but new ones are being made too. terror, crayon, domination, gorge loving, are just naming a few. clans die, clans start - that is the way every community is.
I think since NS is going through a lot of changes at this stage and there is no one stable version that will not be changed significantly so quickly with patches clans dont really have a chance to get used to the verson at hand and make stragities accordingly. When a verson comes out (Ala 3.0) that should be staying for a pretty long time with frequent patches that only fix bugs THEN I think the scene will "heat up" again.
<!--QuoteBegin-exoity+Jul 3 2004, 11:04 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (exoity @ Jul 3 2004, 11:04 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Also, the thing most of you fail to realize is that clans are die, yes, but new ones are being made too. terror, crayon, domination, george loving, are just naming a few. clans die, clans start - that is the way every community is. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Good 'ol Georges.
This is likely to be another huge post, so I recommend you get some tea and chocolate digestives now.
Sarisel first - for the sake of a shorter post I'm just going to use the same numbers you used.
1. If they've moved up to clan level then they're definitely not the majority of pubbers, so I have every confidence they'll change mindset. Its one thing to be playing a relaxing lazy game of NS and another to be mixing it up in a clan game. Anyone who wants to be in a clan can easily make that distinction. Only the truly dire pubber will cry hax, but that brings to mind the question why such a bad pubber ever got near the clan server.
2. Spawncamping is just one example, and it can be done inside of 2 minutes with a good rush. And can last for the entirety of a round if you're playing smacktards. And yes, I think we've all see games where one side decides to be hilarious and just lame up around the other hive/spawn and camp it up. Thats just one example, and I gave another which was concerning high level fades, which are all but unstoppable to the average pubber. Being kicked about by one high level fade will teach you very little. Different if the fade is average enough that he gets hit with a shotty as he blinks in or out, but against a high level player you've no chance in hell on a pub.
3. Exactly what I mean. We're trying to appeal to the better players aren't we? IMHO its impossible to entertain the lowest end of the pubber scale, because griefers and smacktards will NEVER learn, as I said. The average pubber, or better, is smart enough to connect cause and effect and mostly wants to improve. If he's always crying hax then I've no time for him and certainly wouldn't be trying to recruit him to a clan. I'm talking about decent pubbers who only have a problem with the smacktard element of the clan community, not decent clanners who have problems with the smacktard element of the pub community, heh.
4. The spawnkilling comment was in reply to the "courtesy" of walking out of a hive and waiting for everyone to respawn. Remember? Its not an example I would list about clan play, if anything I recall it was suggested as an example of PATRONIZING BEHAVIOUR.
To retort to your comment however, if you're snuffing the other side that easily, do you not consider that you should be on another server where the other players are nearer to your skill level? What is the problem on the other side? Do they have no upgrades, is their comm dire? Why not switch teams and give them a hand? I see no fun in shooting fish in a barrel. Different if it was narrowly beating 5 marines, or just having a lucky ambush, but if the skill difference is that great then I think people should really be thinking about going to another server.
5. Yes, as I said, the response is usually negative. Its the same to Constie icons as well. The hatred could be for someone "better" than them, it could be because they're jealous of the icon, it could be because they're immature smacktards looking to vent their spleen, it could be because someone went fade and destroyed them before the comm could react to clan level play, it could be any number of things. Most pubbers will just keep quiet and get on with it, there's nothing anyone can do about pub smacktards other than try to avoid them.
That said, more power to you if you're big enough not to flame them back. I've said it in other posts and I'll say it again - a lot of good people with icons or tags get a lot of abuse for no reason other than their tag/icon. I don't like that any more than you do, and I've a deep respect for people who can take the abuse and not lower themselves by hurtling flames back.
6. Good servers are becoming so rare these days....
Totally. Again thats part of the problem - if we'd a dedicated core of good servers, or servers for those with better skills, then there'd be less of the polarisation between clanners and pubbers.
Also in full agreement with Nadagast about clanners being mostly nice guys. I don't see why smacktards should kill the clan community, I don't see the justification for that at all. Swiftspear does have a point in that its the 5% thats ruining it for EVERYONE, on both sides.
Reading on through the thread, you can see a lot of the time its not "just one smacktard" but TEAMS of the buggers, or consistent tard behaviour from tagged people, which is what is forming these negative views.
Roll on official steam craziness, because I think the huge influx of new blood will definitely shake things up.
I dunno what I expect to get out of this thread. I guess I'd just like to see a bit of respect on both sides, see skilled players not upsetting balance for the woefully less skilled, see clans try and keep the vocal smacktard elements of their group in line... perhaps see some sort of system for skilled players to keep themselves entertained but without lobotomizing themselves.
BftG sounds very interesting, but I'm still a bit depressed that I can't seem to adequately describe how much I don't understand why high level players stay on lower skilled servers and as a result destroy the fun of the game.
NS is not dying, work is now being started again on the mod to fix problems, next season of CAL, TONS of teams will begin forming, and by season 5 we may even have two real divisions!
Now on the topic of pubbers, once you play in a fierce game, you never go back. I used to pub all the time from 1.04-2.0, but when I had my first pug and scrim, pubs seemed ALOT less enjoyable. The fact that you have 5 buddies that all want to win just as much as you do makes you play your best, and have the most fun. There is nothing like winning a scrim or match versus a better team, becuase you know it was a tough fight for both sides, and in the end a gg.
I have just spent the day going thru the CAL website and #findnsclan and found all of these active clans. I have them arranged by division, starting with not in a CAL division, then omega then gamma. Notice all the clans not in CAL on my site, yet everyone of these clans had either and active irc channel or active website with forums. Some are just brand new clans, some are cs clans looking to break into ns, some are pub ns clans, (and some were active in CAL recently) but they have all showed interest in joining NS-CAL at some point but did not. Probably most of them felt they were not ready to compete, but imagin if just half of these clans joined. Omega would be booming and alot of clans would be having alot more fun.
<a href='http://www.sphere-ns.com/links.htm' target='_blank'>HERE</a> is the link to my webpage with the clans listed.
If some of you are feeling generous with your time, maybe you could devote some time to these clans to see if you can help them with whatever they need to join and start playing. Some good news about it right now, none of them should feel pressure to make the playoffs because it is just too late. So they don't have to perform well, they just have to show up and have some fun.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think since NS is going through a lot of changes at this stage and there is no one stable version that will not be changed significantly so quickly with patches clans dont really have a chance to get used to the verson at hand and make stragities accordingly. When a verson comes out (Ala 3.0) that should be staying for a pretty long time with frequent patches that only fix bugs THEN I think the scene will "heat up" again. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I tried to think of a way to make fun of this guy without annoying Nem. I failed <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Nec.........
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS is not dying, work is now being started again on the mod to fix problems, next season of CAL, TONS of teams will begin forming, and by season 5 we may even have two real divisions! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Where the hell did you get that from?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is true but I feel that as some of the bigger clans leave the scene for the moment that other smaller clans that are good now get a chance to be on the high ranking list. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They may have the same rank but they're nowhere near as good.
Exigent is the only team alive at the moment at tha calibre teams like Red SyN eR dn and Ham were at some point or another.
The average skill of clans is sinking. As Exi consolidates every other clan is losing players. Of the top 100 players to ever play ns half that play.
While ns may not be dying the competitive scene is already dead for now.
Maybe Terror or Co can step it up and give exi a run next season
I'm wondering how bad the lag differance for euro and us clans really is, the ping is between 80-100 to an east coast server yes? is this so auful? I've heard before that playing with atlantic lag is worse than other types but i don't see how this could be so :?
Anyway what i'm getting at is that, the main US league has been struggling to find clans to play in two divisions, that's basically what this topic is about. Well, here in euroland we don't have any leagues (that are organised/ active), so how about CAL tries encouraging more eu clans to join? it would begin to consolidate us to a single stronger community and, i think be alot more fun.
Now i know some US players/ clans seem to hate playing eu clans due to the ping issues (eR + d3stroyers anyone) but if this could be overcome it could give both communities a boost, just due to the added competition. If this is un-doable that's fine but maybe worth considering.
Anderval, you would have to talk to the cal admins about it. Currently cal is supposed to be USA based and the rules are structured around as such. Eu clans are allowed to join given the fact they must submit to us servers at us times. Although all rules are subject to change and cal HAS made US west clans play in US east servers to make pings more fair. Current cal admins seem to have some motivation in keeping eu clan play active and could mean they would be willing to change how cal-ns is run.
ssjyodaJoin Date: 2002-03-05Member: 274Members, Squad Five Blue
around 100 ping is where it becomes a lot harder to hit decent fades and leaping skulks. since they are movin so damn fast.. the server can't keep up. ins refuses to play with more than 80 ping just cause of this.
It isn't that hard to play with Atlantic pings, you just have to shoot about 5 more bullets. Sure you're going to die more but if your teamwork is good then you're still going to win.
Comments
Forlorn, I reject your statement on PUGs. The amount of teamwork is what the individuals on the team put into it. I know I lay out a clear plan, including where people need to be at when the game starts, and they better stick to it. Once the game moves in some, one person just coordinates everyone around. I don't see how that's "no teamwork". If you're a lazy bum and just want to run around and kill stuff, then sure, there's no teamwork. Those of us that bother to put forth a little effort do much better than any given pub server.
Runs into maintance, kills a skulk
Skulk replys "Omg WTH?, whats that symbol mean next to your name?"
Me replys "It means im a Veteran"
Skulk replys "More like you have got scripts and a massive config"
Me says "sigh... thats harsh"
^^^ Is happening in the EU a lot now. If you get a kill on a public its like "Omg you must be a scripter!!"
Other example - from Thursday 1st July.
/me joins marine game thats been going 30 minutes
game Ends.
New game starts and i jump in the CC hoping to show people how to comm.
Just after getting people to run out after res nodes, and getting lvl 3 weapons and HA researched. "Command has been ejected."
Some pubber jumps in the chair.. gets everybody ramboing into a fade, because he does not know about better guns or how to drop HA, despite telling him. Manages to medspam 100 res of medpacks on a mate.
/me sighs again
- I absolutely love comming, because you get to see what people can do. However being ejected pisses me RIGHT off. Most aggrivating thing ever. Its pathetic, your just winning a game, and pubbers eject you. Makes me constantly want to leave NS.
Skill levels, cooperation and simple listening, just isnt there in public play anymore. People are just not bothered. I know people are saying in this topic that we should help public players.... but has anyone got the time and attitude to be bothered with them, with their lack of cooperation.
Currently in the EU there is about 4 active clans.... Most are playing SWG now, or some other MMORPG like FFXI.
Its alright talking about the american scene, but the EU one is getting pretty scarce to.
At worst, I think the clan scene is just kinda re-organizing right now.
But what I would like to see is some of these pub clans join CAL and scrim more. There are lots of these guys, they have a clan, but the entire purpose of the clan is just to be regulars on that particular server. Seems a waste to me.
I also know a cs clan just starting to break into ns. They are CAL intermediate and used to scrimming over and over again. Every time they scrim us they want a rematch despite losing. We don't take it easy on them, and they know they will lose, yet they keep it up because that is the way to learn. Alot of pub clans lose and give up after one match.
If you do start a clan, or your clan decides to scrim, you go to #findnsscrim and scrim a team from there just remember, the only clans looking for scrims there are generally going to be better(because they scrim). So expect to lose and try to learn from it.
Bistro: You'd be amazed how often I hear "pugging sucks" or "the pug scene is getting crappy", yet the same people that flame it still do it several times a day. It's nothing new. My first PUG was terrible, my team sucked and the other team had a pair of #cri guys that tore us apart. I didn't let that or the subsequent sucky PUGs deter me. Eventually I figured out that my skill was getting better, and suddenly PUGs started to become cool. I've had a couple of PUGs that were up there in memory with scrims I've had in terms of fun. Come on tonight, I'm going to get several of the other admins and we're going to get some serious PUGs going.
from what i've heard from some fellow fogies who have gone into comp play, for them, it's an amaaazing experience. the game is much much tighter, the competitition fierce. if you play to win, to play a very very tight game of ns, then go for it. there will be nay sayers (admittedly a minority) and if you are not too concerned with what the squeaky wheel says, keep at it.
lets see CS have structers, lets see CS have 2 diffrent races lets see... wait, whats that in the corner... OMG!!! <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> A NEW SMILEY!!!
wow...
see, unknown worlds put all this work in, and they get no $@#%n publicity or fame
i am constantly trying to get ppl to play NS, but all i get it "that game is for noobs" right there, in public school, one time in my life, i wished the old dink sinclare was there now, if you will excuse me, i have to play with this until im happy as my old budgie was with the mirror
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
dumb emotocon limit X8
lets see CS have structers, lets see CS have 2 diffrent races lets see... wait, whats that in the corner... OMG!!! <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> A NEW SMILEY!!!
wow...
see, unknown worlds put all this work in, and they get no $@#%n publicity or fame
i am constantly trying to get ppl to play NS, but all i get it "that game is for noobs" right there, in public school, one time in my life, i wished the old dink sinclare was there now, if you will excuse me, i have to play with this until im happy as my old budgie was with the mirror
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
dumb emotocon limit X8 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Without counter strike, NS would have like 100 followers instead of the 10000+
Love it or hate it, CS helped the popularity of ALL half life mods.
lets see CS have structers, lets see CS have 2 diffrent races lets see... wait, whats that in the corner... OMG!!! <!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo--> A NEW SMILEY!!!
wow...
see, unknown worlds put all this work in, and they get no $@#%n publicity or fame
i am constantly trying to get ppl to play NS, but all i get it "that game is for noobs" right there, in public school, one time in my life, i wished the old dink sinclare was there now, if you will excuse me, i have to play with this until im happy as my old budgie was with the mirror
<!--emo&::tsa::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tsa.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tsa.gif' /><!--endemo-->
dumb emotocon limit X8 <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Without counter strike, NS would have like 100 followers instead of the 10000+
Love it or hate it, CS helped the popularity of ALL half life mods. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
good point. never thought of that.
Back on track to what im trying to say is, try to treat whatever clan your facing with a little bit of respect. If clan leaders really stepped up and or tryed to keep there members to this ns might return to being fun again competativly. Instead of putting a band aid on the problem of the clan community why not try to fix it. Quality is better then quantity.
anyway take it however you take it ... this is how i feel.
lego-
Be friends? <3
This is basically how it works for all games, because leagues do not force teams to stick together, so if someone has a bad match or whatever that person can blame their teammates and flake out, to another team.
NS will still have a decent clan following, however, it would be nice to see newer fresher people in there.
When NS hits the steam menu I expect to see a lot more nubs, a lot more clans, and a number of different playstyles. Right now the issue is that everyone seems to be playing the same strategies and such. When new peeps are added there will be radical clans on the cutting edge of cleverness. <---i like that line.
This is basically how it works for all games, because leagues do not force teams to stick together, so if someone has a bad match or whatever that person can blame their teammates and flake out, to another team.
NS will still have a decent clan following, however, it would be nice to see newer fresher people in there. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is true but I feel that as some of the bigger clans leave the scene for the moment that other smaller clans that are good now get a chance to be on the high ranking list.
Good 'ol Georges.
Sarisel first - for the sake of a shorter post I'm just going to use the same numbers you used.
1. If they've moved up to clan level then they're definitely not the majority of pubbers, so I have every confidence they'll change mindset. Its one thing to be playing a relaxing lazy game of NS and another to be mixing it up in a clan game. Anyone who wants to be in a clan can easily make that distinction. Only the truly dire pubber will cry hax, but that brings to mind the question why such a bad pubber ever got near the clan server.
2. Spawncamping is just one example, and it can be done inside of 2 minutes with a good rush. And can last for the entirety of a round if you're playing smacktards. And yes, I think we've all see games where one side decides to be hilarious and just lame up around the other hive/spawn and camp it up. Thats just one example, and I gave another which was concerning high level fades, which are all but unstoppable to the average pubber. Being kicked about by one high level fade will teach you very little. Different if the fade is average enough that he gets hit with a shotty as he blinks in or out, but against a high level player you've no chance in hell on a pub.
3. Exactly what I mean. We're trying to appeal to the better players aren't we? IMHO its impossible to entertain the lowest end of the pubber scale, because griefers and smacktards will NEVER learn, as I said. The average pubber, or better, is smart enough to connect cause and effect and mostly wants to improve. If he's always crying hax then I've no time for him and certainly wouldn't be trying to recruit him to a clan. I'm talking about decent pubbers who only have a problem with the smacktard element of the clan community, not decent clanners who have problems with the smacktard element of the pub community, heh.
4. The spawnkilling comment was in reply to the "courtesy" of walking out of a hive and waiting for everyone to respawn. Remember? Its not an example I would list about clan play, if anything I recall it was suggested as an example of PATRONIZING BEHAVIOUR.
To retort to your comment however, if you're snuffing the other side that easily, do you not consider that you should be on another server where the other players are nearer to your skill level? What is the problem on the other side? Do they have no upgrades, is their comm dire? Why not switch teams and give them a hand? I see no fun in shooting fish in a barrel. Different if it was narrowly beating 5 marines, or just having a lucky ambush, but if the skill difference is that great then I think people should really be thinking about going to another server.
5. Yes, as I said, the response is usually negative. Its the same to Constie icons as well. The hatred could be for someone "better" than them, it could be because they're jealous of the icon, it could be because they're immature smacktards looking to vent their spleen, it could be because someone went fade and destroyed them before the comm could react to clan level play, it could be any number of things. Most pubbers will just keep quiet and get on with it, there's nothing anyone can do about pub smacktards other than try to avoid them.
That said, more power to you if you're big enough not to flame them back. I've said it in other posts and I'll say it again - a lot of good people with icons or tags get a lot of abuse for no reason other than their tag/icon. I don't like that any more than you do, and I've a deep respect for people who can take the abuse and not lower themselves by hurtling flames back.
6. Good servers are becoming so rare these days....
Totally. Again thats part of the problem - if we'd a dedicated core of good servers, or servers for those with better skills, then there'd be less of the polarisation between clanners and pubbers.
Also in full agreement with Nadagast about clanners being mostly nice guys. I don't see why smacktards should kill the clan community, I don't see the justification for that at all. Swiftspear does have a point in that its the 5% thats ruining it for EVERYONE, on both sides.
Reading on through the thread, you can see a lot of the time its not "just one smacktard" but TEAMS of the buggers, or consistent tard behaviour from tagged people, which is what is forming these negative views.
Roll on official steam craziness, because I think the huge influx of new blood will definitely shake things up.
I dunno what I expect to get out of this thread. I guess I'd just like to see a bit of respect on both sides, see skilled players not upsetting balance for the woefully less skilled, see clans try and keep the vocal smacktard elements of their group in line... perhaps see some sort of system for skilled players to keep themselves entertained but without lobotomizing themselves.
BftG sounds very interesting, but I'm still a bit depressed that I can't seem to adequately describe how much I don't understand why high level players stay on lower skilled servers and as a result destroy the fun of the game.
Now on the topic of pubbers, once you play in a fierce game, you never go back. I used to pub all the time from 1.04-2.0, but when I had my first pug and scrim, pubs seemed ALOT less enjoyable. The fact that you have 5 buddies that all want to win just as much as you do makes you play your best, and have the most fun. There is nothing like winning a scrim or match versus a better team, becuase you know it was a tough fight for both sides, and in the end a gg.
<a href='http://www.sphere-ns.com/links.htm' target='_blank'>HERE</a> is the link to my webpage with the clans listed.
If some of you are feeling generous with your time, maybe you could devote some time to these clans to see if you can help them with whatever they need to join and start playing. Some good news about it right now, none of them should feel pressure to make the playoffs because it is just too late. So they don't have to perform well, they just have to show up and have some fun.
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I tried to think of a way to make fun of this guy without annoying Nem. I failed <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Nec.........
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NS is not dying, work is now being started again on the mod to fix problems, next season of CAL, TONS of teams will begin forming, and by season 5 we may even have two real divisions!
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Where the hell did you get that from?
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is true but I feel that as some of the bigger clans leave the scene for the moment that other smaller clans that are good now get a chance to be on the high ranking list. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They may have the same rank but they're nowhere near as good.
Exigent is the only team alive at the moment at tha calibre teams like Red SyN eR dn and Ham were at some point or another.
The average skill of clans is sinking. As Exi consolidates every other clan is losing players. Of the top 100 players to ever play ns half that play.
While ns may not be dying the competitive scene is already dead for now.
Maybe Terror or Co can step it up and give exi a run next season
Anyway what i'm getting at is that, the main US league has been struggling to find clans to play in two divisions, that's basically what this topic is about. Well, here in euroland we don't have any leagues (that are organised/ active), so how about CAL tries encouraging more eu clans to join? it would begin to consolidate us to a single stronger community and, i think be alot more fun.
Now i know some US players/ clans seem to hate playing eu clans due to the ping issues (eR + d3stroyers anyone) but if this could be overcome it could give both communities a boost, just due to the added competition. If this is un-doable that's fine but maybe worth considering.
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