End Marine Rfk

GunFodderGunFodder Members Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Posts: 146
Legitimate Reasons for Doing So
I know a lot of people want to see RFK gone completely. I would like to see it removed, for Marines, for the following reasons:

1) Slows down Marine tech advancement. Marines killing Skulks in early game is easy and just speeds up research of upgrades, allowing Marines to kill Khaara easier, get more res, and so on.

2) Significantly cuts down Marine endgame. If the Khaara get 3 hives they can basically lay siege to the marines who need to cap nodes to gain res. If they have to rely on the base RT, marines will not have too many GLs or beacons.

3) Giving Marines res for killing Khaara makes no sense. What do they do, fry the Onos and eat it? There is no easy way to make a Skulk into an HMG, but the Khaara could sure use the Marines for food.

Any other reasons?

Comments

  • Umbraed_MonkeyUmbraed_Monkey Members Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9922Posts: 1,769
    take all reasons found in this thread and add it to your list.

    http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/in...showtopic=61617
  • eVoxeVox Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-08-16 Member: 19840Posts: 169 Advanced user
    QUOTE
    3) Giving Marines res for killing Khaara makes no sense. What do they do, fry the Onos and eat it? There is no easy way to make a Skulk into an HMG, but the Khaara could sure use the Marines for food.


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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    edited June 2004
    The most important reason to remove it ( I think ) is that it makes spawn camping a viable strategy, rather than just a lame annoyance. There are probably other ways to deal with this, but I do think something needs to be done. Its becoming very popular.
  • juicejuice Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Posts: 1,044
    Just a note on alien rfk, I think it's valuable, among other reasons, because it gives a good justification for the best player(one with the most kills as skulk) to go fade first. This solves a host of problems associated with ns fade-centricity.

    But yeah there's really no reason for marine rfk to be in place... it's like double payment. Say a skulk fights a marine. When the skulk loses, not only does he NOT get his own rfk from killing the marine, the marine GETS rfk, so it's really like DOUBLE the value! Like 4 res!
  • GunFodderGunFodder Members Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Posts: 146
    QUOTE (juice @ Jun 10 2004, 11:01 PM)
    Just a note on alien rfk, I think it's valuable, among other reasons, because it gives a good justification for the best player(one with the most kills as skulk) to go fade first.

    Yeah. Alien RFK would need to remain just to keep the Khaara competative.

    Hell, right now someone's hive 1 50 res fade can be absolutely crushed by a 30 res investment of 3 lvl 0 shotties.
  • Slow_SmurfSlow_Smurf Members Join Date: 2004-04-03 Member: 27702Posts: 46
    I'd like to see them try a system where the extra res goes to gorges or they simply gain less with the marines getting none.

    It is a beta afterall...
  • juicejuice Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Posts: 1,044
    edited June 2004
    extra res to gorges system was how NS started out... it was a terribly flawed system

    edit: and if it were implemented now, it would be even more flawed.
  • TOmekkiTOmekki Members Join Date: 2003-11-25 Member: 23524Posts: 2,254
    a fade can be taken out with 2 armor1 lmg'ers. if they know what they are doing.
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  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Members, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Posts: 1,717
    And that relates to removing marine rfk how?

    On the topic, I think this is a great idea that would be great to try in a build. Hell, remove RFK for everyone. It would push the game towards more strategic play instead of in the direction of deathmatch play, which is what RFK rewards. Removing RFK would remove some of the identity crisis from the game.
  • GunFodderGunFodder Members Join Date: 2004-02-15 Member: 26572Posts: 146
    edited June 2004
    I'm afraid though that removing RFK for aliens would cause them to lose their agressiveness. Aliens shouldn't be back on their heals building OCs because they are worthless in the end. They need to be preventing the Marines from setting up res towers.

    Taking out RFK for aliens would give alien alien players little incentive to attack early, when the marine team is weakest. When the game is pretty much won or lost for the aliens.

    I'm all for testing both ways though. Someone should be able to make a modifier to subtract RFK, no?
  • BobTheJanitorBobTheJanitor Members, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2003-12-10 Member: 24228Posts: 1,717
    But you explained in your post exactly why aliens should be attacking then. I personally don't need to get a 1-3 res reward for killing a marine to make me want to ambush a marine about to build an RT. I do it BECAUSE it slows their forward expansion, because that's how you win the game.
  • ZekZek Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Posts: 4,690 Advanced user
    edited June 2004
    My favorite alien RFK suggestion is that every kill gives 1 res to every Gorge on the team and nothing to the killer. Fast killers still indirectly help their own res gain by allowing for more nodes and more defense of those nodes. It puts more emphasis on the res war while still staying true to the alien deathmatch-ish gameplay. Most significantly though, it adds a big incentive to permagorges again while creating a stategic decision; more gorges to take advantage of the res multiplying(thus better map coverage), or more skulks to increase the kills(thus better res to few gorges, so faster hive and more concentrated defense)?

    The only flaw I can see is that a disincentive to saving for Fade/Onos as a gorge would be needed; maybe Gorges would only be able to evolve back to skulks, and doing so would halve their res and redistribute it to the other Gorges?

    I doubt such a big change will happen but I can always hope... Permagorging has sort of sucked since 2.0 came out. Not only would this make it faster and more interesting all around, but it would do something to address the alien large game woes by significantly increasing their gorge res flow.
  • ssjyodassjyoda Members, Squad Five Blue Join Date: 2002-03-05 Member: 274Posts: 877 Fully active user
    y would u wana slow down marine tech. aliens already tech twice as fast.... when u have a team that doesn't have their head in a bad spot.
  • Al_KaholicAl_Kaholic Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-01-31 Member: 25821Posts: 374
    Alien "tech" consists of creating a hive and dropping 3 chambers of one type, which is incredibly expensive when you think about it. 10 res to Gorge, 40 to drop a hive, and 10 to drop each chamber...that's 80 res, which can be a staggering amount when Aliens are on the ropes and/or in large games. Zek's idea sounds like a great solution for situations such as where the Fade/Onos of the game has 50+ res while the Gorges have barely enough res for towers.

    I think taking away Marine rfk adds an element of teamplay for both teams; not only does it benefit the alien team to have few Gorges (for optimal res flow) and keep agression on Marine expansion more, Marines now have to coordinate themselves more efficiently and effectively and learn how to operate under new strategies. Sure, at first it could and most likely would be shaky, but eventually we'll forget Marines ever got rfk's.
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  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Members Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Posts: 2,227
    Yes... RES FOR THE GORGES! biggrin.gif

    And when there are no gorges i guess the RFK can be put into the common pool.
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  • DiablusDiablus Members Join Date: 2003-03-31 Member: 15080Posts: 2,177
    edited June 2004
    Marine RFK is lame as hell. Not only does it encourage that 1 marine to go and spawncamp a hive with spawning skulks but like many have said, it totally slows down marine end game which is totally lame. RFK for marines is one of the biggest and lamest problems flayra and the dev team put into NS. the next thing ya know marines will be buying there own weapons confused.gif
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