Self Defense Scenario Discussion 1 Of ?:

Marik_SteeleMarik_Steele To rule in hell...Members Join Date: 2002-11-20 Member: 9466Posts: 4,200 mod
pistol to back
This'll be the first of a we'll-see-how-many series of self-defense discussions. I'm trying to keep this very separate from typical gun control or "why everyone should bring their baby pistol with them everywhere" threads. Instead I'm going to post a situation so we can talk about what's the smartest course of action as the victim.

Scenario: pistol to back.
Random person in mid- to low-light situation puts a pistol to someplace between your shoulderblades and demands something (asks for wallet or car keys, asks to <censored> you up, asks for the password to that Everquest account of yours valued at $10,000, whatever). Only contact between you and threat person is the gun; he has not grabbed you yet, and you have not been able to take a look at him yet. For the sake of the argument we'll say there's nobody else around in danger of stray bullets or able to contact authorities.

Your goals, in (my opinion) order of priority:
1. Avoid injury or death.
2. Avoid legal trouble.
3. Avoid losing whatever the threat maker is demanding.

Explain what you think is the smartest and safest course of action.
former NS community lead (back in the days of NS1, in between Nemesis Zero and Comprox)
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Comments

  • napinapi Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Posts: 962
    If there is a gun involved, you do what they say, to the word...

    [getting-on-my-high-horse]

    ive been practicing martial arts most of my life - I started Taekwon-do (principally a striking art) when I was 6, and have now reached 3rd Dan in that - I've reached 1st Dan in jujistsu, and competed at semi-professional kickboxing - I've gone to training 'camps' where some of the best people in the world are doing the teaching... and they'd all say the same - the answer isn't mine, but theirs [/off-horse]

    if they have a gun, you do as they say, when they say it, where they say it... Especially as it's in the back - you have no idea if it's genuine or not - you have no idea if the person looks like he just got out of bed, just got out of prison, or just got out of a swimming pool...

    why take a risk... at least wait until you can get more information - such as is the gun real / loaded etc...
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  • Fro5tyFro5ty Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-09-26 Member: 21238Posts: 486
    The problem with muggings is one thing, you don't know if the person will just kill you or not. But, would it be alright to assume that he wouldn't kill, just take the money and run? Then in that case, give it to him. Then let him go and then go to the nearest phone (or home) and tell them you've been mugged. Yeah, you may have not seen his face, but they might already know who it is and you will give them a tip in what area he's in. If not, then well, you should still call the police anyways. If he asked for your wallet and it has credit cards in it, and they have 24/7 support, call their number and tell them your problem and ask them if they can track transactions or even just go ahead and block them. What you will do is just leave the perp with useless credit cards, no real useful forms of ID save your drivers licesnes at the most and what ever cash you had in your wallet. If it's your car, well then inform the police immideiatly and tell them what direction he was going, what kind of car you have and the license plate number, and if he stole your car, you may at least get a good view of what he looks like. Simpley put, you shouldn't ever try to disarm the person if you don't know how to do it, you may just end up dead.

    But if you feel like the type with guts and think your car is more important, you can try dropping the item on the ground, then when he's hopefully distracted enough to pick it up, dodge to the opposite side of your item, grab the hand with the gun and point it as far away as possible from you and either kick him hard in teh shins, balls, a good elbow to the face, gut or maybe forearm if you're strong enough. Then take the gun, if it's a revovler, open the drum of bullets, let them fall to the ground and sweep them all over the place and then throw the gun away into the shadows, or if it's a semi-auto, push the clip release button and then pull back on the slide to remove the bullet from the chamber, kick the clip somewhere, the chambered round if any somewhere, and then throw the gun somewhere. (Not at the mugger, you are giving him a weapon, a blunt weapon for hitting, but he will be ****.) Then your best option is to usually run away, retreiving what he wanted if you feel you can get away with it. Usually, beating them up can be met with consequences since he can sue you for assault and batter, even though he held you at gun point... confused.gif

    But then, it's always safe to comply and let them get away. With the wallet scenario, he will most likely get away with just the cash in the wallet if any. With the car, the police will be on the look out for the car and the suspect. With anything else, it's not important. If he wants to rape you, well, they would probably beat you down first and then rape you while you're subdued.
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  • BurncycleBurncycle Members, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Posts: 2,290
    edited June 2004
    What shanks said. You do what they say. No wallet is worth your life-

    This is a "what if it was you right now" scenario I guess; and most people here are not formally trained. Some may have some training, but that's usually only enough to get themselves hurt. The few who have had professional training know that just because they may thoretically be able to go on the offense, doesn't mean that they _should_ or that it's the safest course of action.

    Some people here may have a concealed carry permit (I will be getting one soon), but even if you are armed, it doesn't mean that you will ever get the chance to bring it to bear. Those who are untrained or just not very smart may believe that the only choice is to somehow bring your weapon to bear.
    Those who are trained know that sometimes it's not the smart move. The idea is to give CCW holders the ability to know and understand the difference.

    The smartest move is to be aware of your situation and not get caught up in something like this in the first place. But hindsight is 20/20, and here you are.

    Odds are? We can talk about it all we want, we have that luxary when it's not happening. But if it ever actually happened, you'd probably be so shook up/panicy that all you CAN do is comply. They aren't kidding when they say that when the adrenaline is flowing, fine motor skills go out the window.
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  • taboofirestaboofires Members Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Posts: 2,246 Advanced user
    Let's compare the amount of cash in your wallet to the cost of a hospital stay and emergency surgery... somehow I doubt you are carrying thousands in your wallet. If you are, you deserved the mugging. Credit cards are no loss if you act fast, and then you're just left with the annoyance of replacing your ID cards.

    If you don't suddenly find yourself with a big advantage (which would be challenging to come across in the dark), it's not a fight you are likely to win. Even if you gained an advantage, you'd probably have to fork over your wallet first to get it (distraction, waiting for them to make a big mistake).

    There's a big difference if you are being threatened with rape. The psychological trauma of that act is terrible, on par with the physical trauma of a bullet. If you see an opportunity to act, take it.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710Posts: 6,952 mod
    edited June 2004
    As noted before (though I may not have as many certifications as shanks... I have to say 'daaamn' to the 3rd dan, as that takes quite a good bit of dedication), you give them what they want, and comply up to a point. That point tends to be being tied up, getting into any vehicle, or moving to a more secluded location. All three are large warning signs that they have more in mind for you than just taking your stuff.

    Also, this is one argument for carrying two wallets. One in your hip pocket, and one in your rear pocket (on jeans). Hand them the fake, make sure it's packed with monopoly money and plastic cards (to make it look real at first glance), and most importantly make it something DIFFICULT TO OPEN.
    Velcro, zippers, anything that almost requires two hands to deal with. This leaves them with a choice between leaving without checking the wallet, or fumbling with it to get a good look inside. In either case, you're better off than before... either they're gone with a useless wallet, or distracted.
    If they tell you to open it, the aforementioned 'drop' is easy to pull off, but if they're smart enough to think of that, and ballsy enough not to be scared witless by this point (aka: ready to bolt), you'll likely end up being shot, and need to be ready to deal with it, and get yourself to a situational position of safety (whatever that may mean to you) as soon and efficiently as possible.
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  • HandmanHandman Members Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15224Posts: 277
    As with most people, I do not believe money is worth my life. Give them what ever they want. There is point at which you do resist. If they want me to go to a dark alley or tell me to get on my knees, thats when I will think about resisting. If the guy has a gun in the middle of your back, i do not believe you will get into any legal troulbe trying to insure your survival. The best way to avoid injury is to limit your exposure to eviorments that make it easy for you to get mugged. Take the advice of my old seafu; if you know that you are going to be in an enviorment like that described, carry a weapon.
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  • cshank4cshank4 Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13425Posts: 1,668
    Quite an easy way really to handle this with, at most breaking their arm.

    Grab the gun hand, tilt the gun DOWN torward the ground, 2 things this does, makes ti so if your shot it hits you a non vital place, or makes it so the gun misses you entirely (of course deflections could happen but... lets not think about this) now spin around into him, and take a hold of his hand, press the pressure point below the wrist and spin his arm out from him, that usually makes it feel like your exerting more pressure on him then you are, thus causing him to panic and A: Dropping the gun or B: going with it. Then your at liberty to strike his genitals or snap his arm.



    Also note, don't try this unless you know what the hell your doing. I had something similar happen to me at school, held up at knife point from behind, snapped the kids arm then kneed him in the ribs... got suspended for 2 weeks and he got off scott clean... confused.gif
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  • BurncycleBurncycle Members, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9759Posts: 2,290
    edited June 2004
    QUOTE
    Grab the gun hand


    Good luck.

    *edit* I'm sorry, that wasn't an appropriate reply. Let me elaborate...

    Given the locale of both you and the aggressor, you are in no position to "grab the gun hand".

    It's like trying to lick your elbow.... it ain't gonna happen.

    QUOTE
    Also note, don't try this unless you know what the hell your doing


    I would advise you to stop and consider that the bad guy might know what the hell HE'S doing. Lets hope not, but if this is the case, you'll end up with nothing but a few new holes.

    The first thing I would do if I see you begin to move at all is to retract the weapon towards my body and begin stepping backwards. The gunman could be firing this entire time if he was so inclined.

    Such a move would give him all the options: If he wanted to kill you, he can; if he is "bluffing", just wanted your money, and never intended to harm you afterwards, this would allow the gunman to retreat. Or, worst of all, if he intended to let you go afterwards, your move may panic him into shooting you.

    Is it possible to turn around, grab the gun, and turn the tables? I suppose, but only if the situation was perfect, the timing was perfect, and your reaction as well as your capability to perform the maneuver is perfect.

    Sadly, while the second and third factor can be trained, the first is out of your control. Plain and simple.

    For you to suggest retaliating when you have no idea:

    -Who is it?
    -What do they want?
    -What is their intent afterwards?
    -Are they willing to commit murder in addition to robbery?
    -Is that a real gun?
    -Are they trained?
    -How will they react to sudden movement?
    -Is that a silencer, or the barrel?
    -Is the pistol in battery?
    -If I turn will they shoot me afterwards because I saw him, whereas he wouldn't have before?
    -Will anyone hear the shot and get help?
    -Is there more than one hostile standing back there?

    is pretty unwise IMO. If you did it at school, it does not correlate to you being able to do it in this case. In fact, it may instill a false sense of confidance.

    It would be mighty embarassing if you did your kung fu successfully only to find out he's got a friend back there with a scattergun.

    While one simple look over your shoulder could shed some answers to some of these variables, turning your head isn't an option. You don't need to know all of those to be successful, but the fewer things you know, the more the odds are stacked against you, unless you're very lucky.

    Sorry for being long winded, but forgive me for scoffing at the thought of simply turning or reaching around and grabbing their hand. That's the type of stereotypical answer that you'd expect from someone who is either untrained or not very smart. Or both. Many people will rant about how if they're going to go down anyway, they will go down fighting. Perhaps there are teens at columbine who would say the same thing... Only to be frozen and scared seconds before their life was taken away. You don't get second chances, but it works both ways...

    By that, I mean there are two reactions and four possible outcomes... you can do as they ask and live. You can do as they ask and be killed anyway. You can try to retaliate and live. Or, you can try and retaliate and be killed.

    IMO the risk and odds of survival are in your favor if you just do what they ask (at least in this case).

    I'm not an expert, so take it with a grain of salt... these are just my thoughts on the matter.
    Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • WindelkronWindelkron Members Join Date: 2002-04-11 Member: 419Posts: 3,975
    if he approached from behind, and forces you to look forward, he is going to let you live. he doesn't want you to see his face so that you can give it to police afterward. do what he says, and see if you get a glance at his face without him noticing (good luck)
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  • [WHO]Them[WHO]Them You can call me Dave Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-12-11 Member: 10593Posts: 2,813 Fully active user
    If you hear his voice coming from your right (making him a left handed holder), then spin right followed quickly by putting all your weight backwards.

    If you hear his voice coming from your left or fail to make the distinction which side it's from, then spin left followed quickly by putting all your weight backwards.

    The idea is to knock their hand to the side with one of your flailing arms and roll your body into the center of their chest and then knock them down.

    If done correctly (which doesn't take much more than quickness), you'll have them pinned to the ground and unable to point the gun at you.

    At this point it's a street fight, good luck with that, remember to go for the balls.
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  • napinapi Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Posts: 962
    QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 10 2004, 06:01 PM)
    though I may not have as many certifications as shanks... I have to say 'daaamn' to the 3rd dan, as that takes quite a good bit of dedication

    thankye - although I don't like talking about it to be fair - people often confuse high grades with high skill... too often is the case when they are completely unrelated - i know many a high grade who shouldn't be there, and i know many low grades that should be much higher...

    if they have a gun, there is one outcome that isn't worth tempting - you die.

    if the gun welder is jumpy, has an itchy trigger finger, or has played FAR too many computer games (real life ~ internet) why take the risk...
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    the rookie formally known as shanks
  • EuoplocephalusEuoplocephalus Members Join Date: 2003-02-21 Member: 13811Posts: 184
    edited June 2004
    QUOTE (Burncycle @ Jun 10 2004, 12:07 PM)
    If you did it at school, it does not correlate to you being able to do it in this case. In fact, it may instill a false sense of confidance.

    I completely agree.

    Also I'd like to reiterate the fact that how you actually respond when a guy points a gun at you in the dark of night and demands something, and how you'd like to think you'd respond are two completely different things. I had the misfortune to find that out the hard way this spring break, while in Mexico. I consider myself extremely lucky that all I lost was a couple hundred dollars, a good chunk of my clothes, and the car (in which the above mentioned things were in). Up to the point where the gun got pulled I was actively looking for a way to get me and all my stuff out of the situation, the second it came out however, none of the stuff mattered like it had a few seconds before. I just kinda froze up. All my plans managed to completely leave my mind. I handed over the keys, and ran to the police station.

    The Lessons to be learned:
    1.Give up the stuff, its far more replaceable than your life.
    2. When you roommate says “Lets go to Mexico for spring break, my friend tells me there is this great place to camp out on the beach for free…” dig up the cash for a hotel room instead. It could end up being far far cheaper...
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • BogglesteinskyBogglesteinsky Members Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11488Posts: 4,078
    If someone has a gun pointed at your head, and you are looking at them, human reaction times are sufficiently slow for you to be able to knock the gun away with your hand, while moving your head the other way for the bullet to whizz harmlessly past your ear.

    I am not sure whether you could pull off a similar manouver when turned away from the person.
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  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    I'd probably break down and cry. Hopefully, he'll lower his gun in disgust, and I can slap him to death.
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  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Posts: 10,571 Advanced user
    having martial arts training, EMT training, and being brought up in NYC tells me this:

    FRIKEN DO AS THEY SAY.

    most people do NOT want to comit murder (as they will be persued much more aggresively, and murder/attempted murder is MUCH worse then agrivated assault).

    If you are sure they are going to do something to you, run like heck.
    Hitting a mooving target is much harder, just run and keep friken running!

    The other most important thing is to never get your self into a situation where an assaliant could attack you with a gun with out much fear of reciprication of some sort.
    If they have you on a dark residential street, no one is gona see it, but they WILL hear a gunshot.

    the most you are out is probably a few hundred $$ (if you cary that in your wallet) or possibly your car (hint, don't park some where that an assaliagnt can do this to you).

    All of you people who think that that you can get to his hand faster then he can make a fist are not thinking to clearly. It takes a fraction of a second to squeeze the trigger, it takes a larger fraction of a second to defelct his hand. Some one who is mugging you is probably already edgy, cautious etc. Don't suprise em, just give em your walet.
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710Posts: 6,952 mod
    Was just about to say that.

    To all the people who have said something akin to 'grab their hand', or 'spin and fall back':

    They are behind your back. They have at LEAST one weapon of an uncertain caliber pressed against said back. You are not an action hero. This is NOT a movie. You are not a soldier. They most likely do not want to kill you.
    You may have cojones, or think that you do, or are trying to have that effect on an *internet forum*. I personally don't care. Just remember this simple fact:

    They only have to move their finger less than a quarter of an inch to possibly blow a fist-sized hole through your sternum.

    You CAN NOT move fast enough in this situation. Give them the money, do as they say. Politely, and as calmly as you can. Comply, and you have a much raised chance of survival.



    From the front though is a different story (and should never be attempted without practicing a metric ASSLOAD), where it's actually better to get the underbarrel into the web between your thumb and first finger, and crank up and toward their wrist. Results in at the least a broken trigger finger from the guard; which hurts like hell and is LIKELY to distract them (drugs/fortitude notwithstanding). You know where you stand, with a frontside assailant... or at least a helluva lot more than from the back.
    A knife... give them what they want. A gun is a bad weapon for a close fight.

    But one thing is certain about the outcome of a knife fight... one person is going to the emergency room, and the other is going to the morgue.


    I've seen that, shanks.. it's more about having shown that dedication to stick with it and get there than anything else. I'm pretty lousy with bare hand grapples, punches and throws.. but I *love* the hanbo. ^_^ Could land the instructor on his back every time, until he took it away. sad.gif
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  • ScytheScythe NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators, Constellation, Reinforced - Silver Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 46Posts: 4,372 mod
    QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 11 2004, 08:29 AM)
    (drugs/fortitude notwithstanding)

    You know you're a nerd when you think of ripping off their amulet of +6 to fortitude before doing this. D:

    --Scythe--
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  • TrevelyanTrevelyan Members Join Date: 2003-03-23 Member: 14834Posts: 2,227
    edited June 2004
    QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 10 2004, 01:01 PM)
    Also, this is one argument for carrying two wallets. One in your hip pocket, and one in your rear pocket (on jeans). Hand them the fake, make sure it's packed with monopoly money and plastic cards (to make it look real at first glance), and most importantly make it something DIFFICULT TO OPEN.
    Velcro, zippers, anything that almost requires two hands to deal with. This leaves them with a choice between leaving without checking the wallet, or fumbling with it to get a good look inside. In either case, you're better off than before... either they're gone with a useless wallet, or distracted.
    If they tell you to open it, the aforementioned 'drop' is easy to pull off, but if they're smart enough to think of that, and ballsy enough not to be scared witless by this point (aka: ready to bolt), you'll likely end up being shot, and need to be ready to deal with it, and get yourself to a situational position of safety (whatever that may mean to you) as soon and efficiently as possible.

    Thats great advice Talesin, Next time i see a old wallet someone doesn't want I'll be sure to pick it up.

    Also i keep my important cards (ID, credit cards) in a seperate "mini wallet" thing, so even if it does happen... i can say "here ya go... but i have nothing to take". I'm sure it'd make the basturd feel real bad for robbing a poor college student. tounge.gif

    As for the topic at hand... Simply avoid getting in a situation such as this. Sounds hard but just put yourself in their shoes... Avoid the best places for ambushes. Allys and dark streets in a industrial portion of a city. Think of what would make robbing someone easy, and do the opposite.
    Don't Die!

    LOVE NATURAL-SELECTION HARDER!

    It seems the only way to change anything this day and age is to kill. Whatever happened to talking?

    (>#_O)>/ .... (/'.')/
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    I've started taking my importand IDs and credit cards out of my wallet and putting them in my pocket before going to a sketchy part of town. Then I can just give them my wallet. I couldn't care less about the money, but I really don't want to go through the hassle of getting a new drivers license, bank card, etc.
  • MavericMaveric Members Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Posts: 2,923
    edited June 2004
    Firstly, examine your surroundings.
    How many thieves are there that you can hear? Are there multiple people speaking? If there are, you might as well fight for your life anyways, because muggings nearly always go down 1 on 1. Why? I'll answer that with another question: Why would you want someone else watching you mug another person?
    Yup, they're gonna kill you and take everything off of you.

    Is there anything you can use to your advantage within the area?
    A light behind your mugger will cast a shadow, giving you a good idea of their height/weight and/or position relative to yourself. Height/Weight is a good thing to know, especially if you think you'll have to fight him. As well, by the shadow you could also tell if the mugger was a woman; as well as the voice... but that is highly doubtful.

    On that, are there any nearby and readilly available weapons or objects?
    A light/dull/easilly broken object is nothing you want to be going for. A heavy, long, and/or hard object is very good at KOing someone, especially if you peg them on their side of their head. A sharp or bladed object that can also be easilly weildable can quickly kill someone. However, you could be in a industrial weapon's factory and even though that factory could produce light guns and pre-load them with live ammunition, they will do you no good if you cannot reach them. Look for things that you can get to: quickly and easilly.

    Turn your disadvantages into advantages, if you can. Because you cannot see your thief's face, this also means your thief cannot see your face. He or she does not know wether you are teary-eyed and blubbery, or totally PO'd and planing how to dispose of their body. Because the thief has the advantage in observing you, try to stress him out with every move you make; but not too much or he'll just shoot you anyways. They may also be over-confident and overly cocky/greedy. Let this be their downfall if you'll fight them; they wont expect you to fight back, because they have a gun.

    Move the gun or weapon to a non-critical area of your body as you go for the items the fiend requested, if you can. He may or may not match your movements; this means if he DOES shoot you (and pray they shoot you only once) you can play dead while not actually being killed. A hole one inch from your heart is a better option then a hole going through your heart. wink.gif And if you DO get shot, 9 times out of 10, people will run away even without your wallet for one obvious reason; they think they've just commited a murder, possibly their first. If you're still alive wait a while for your shooter to dissapear. Then dissapear before he reapears with a match and gasoline or worse; a friend with another weapon in a axe-like form carrying a black baggie. sad.gif


    But most importantly:
    Stay calm and think.
    Anything could set the idiot off a-flaming, and pop a cap into your lower spinal column while doing it.

    If you're in on a abandoned city street at night and someone does this to you, and you know they're the only one else out there, just give them what they want; but not blindly. Think before you act and think where it could take you if you take certain actions. But the mugger won't expect you to think; they just hope you're too petrified to do anything but comply.

    Personally, i'd comply... to a point. If i was able to fight, and win with minimal injuries to MYSELF (i dont care about HIM, though) and it was a huge deal that i give him nothing (+100 dollars i owe someone, or a loan shark, for example) then i'd take him out. I mean take. him. out. Perminately.

    [If you feel something wet it's either your sweat or water from... the gun.
    Break his arm in that case.]
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  • panda_de_malheureuxpanda_de_malheureux Members Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24775Posts: 1,633
    Ok so can someone explain why you would be alone in the first place? I know this is for the sake of argument, but in the past month I have been alone outside (walking) about 0 times.
  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    You might be coming back from work late in the day. While work's too close to hop on a bus/get a taxi/drive your car to, it may be something like a ten minute walk past a Bad Place.
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  • juicejuice Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-01-28 Member: 12886Posts: 1,044
    QUOTE ([WHO)
    Them,Jun 10 2004, 03:28 PM]If you hear his voice coming from your right (making him a left handed holder), then spin right followed quickly by putting all your weight backwards.

    If you hear his voice coming from your left or fail to make the distinction which side it's from, then spin left followed quickly by putting all your weight backwards.

    The idea is to knock their hand to the side with one of your flailing arms and roll your body into the center of their chest and then knock them down.

    If done correctly (which doesn't take much more than quickness), you'll have them pinned to the ground and unable to point the gun at you.

    At this point it's a street fight, good luck with that, remember to go for the balls.

    lol
  • napinapi Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Posts: 962
    QUOTE ([WHO]Them @ Jun 10 2004, 08:28 PM)
    If you hear his voice coming from your right (making him a left handed holder), then spin right followed quickly by putting all your weight backwards.

    bit of a serious assumption there... the side they approach from is related to which hand they carry their gun in how... ?
    user posted imageuser posted image ... EUPT

    the rookie formally known as shanks
  • CMEastCMEast Members Join Date: 2002-05-19 Member: 632Posts: 1,655
    I'd say the smart thing to do is do what they say.

    I've never been one to follow my own advice, for various reasons before I have spent a lot of time on the streets late at night and have been in more fights than I can count (hence my broken nose), I've had knives and various heavy blunt objects used on me and... well I've been lucky. All I know is that in any confrontational situation I immediately a) get extremely sarcastic b) get extremely calm c) get extremely attached to my wallet/reputation/pint

    Yes I'm stupid, yes I'm liable to get killed one day, yes it does make me feel like the big man when I come out of it with hardly a scratch.

    Saying all of that, I still hate violence, always feel extremely guilty if I do anything that causes them to need medical attention of some kind (once kicked this guy where it hurts... his sack split in half and he had to have them stitched back together again!) and I have never once started a fight, plus whenever I can I talk my way out of it.

    I'm just incapable of running away or just 'taking it', I can't stand bullies and I literally find it impossible to just give in to them.
    user posted image
  • ThansalThansal The New Scum Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-08-22 Member: 1215Posts: 10,571 Advanced user
    CME: If its a gun, do what they say.

    otherwise, it is often best to do as they say, and then start running.


    For an amusing little trick I picked up in a elfdefence class once:
    if they have anything pressed against your back:
    grab your shirt/jacket (by the shoulder area) and pull it across your body. This will case any item they have pressed into your back to move in the oposite direction. You could use this with a gun if you were sure they planed on shooting you.

    You can also use this with a knife or other sharp object.

    You still have a good chance of getting hurt, but atleast this way you end up with the wound more lateral (fewer important things).

    again, at the same time, roll and run (or if your an idiot and insist, come out swinging)


    More things you can do if you insist on fighting:
    forget the groin, o for the throat. that will end a fight, though posibly also their life. However, if you have a reasonable suspision that they planed on causing you harm, it still falls under self defense.

    <Eternaly_Lost> Me and lolfighter are lovers
  • CMEastCMEast Members Join Date: 2002-05-19 Member: 632Posts: 1,655
    Yeah, I know whats best for me I just never do it.

    I've also been told loads of guarenteed ways to win a fight but its surprising how quickly plans go out of your head when you actually start.

    In any event I seem to have good instincts as I always come out on top... totally not trained but it doesn't take years of training to smack someone in the face with a brick biggrin.gif

    Hopefully I will never be in a fight again
    user posted image
  • ForlornForlorn Banned Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Posts: 6,495
    Carry a gun on you. Give them your walet. Let them run. Have good aim, and when they are far away aim for his arms and legs, and have him arrested.
    user posted imageuser posted image#sci-ns Want decent mini-maps?

    Bad NS clan scene?Pm me on IRC!
  • EEKEEK Banned Join Date: 2004-02-25 Member: 26898Posts: 1,341
    Then get arrested for having a concealed firearm. Great plan. Sorry we're not all psychotic gun-waving redneck grammarschool dropouts.
    QUOTE (Marine01)
    It hurts me, deep down, on a whole other level of conciousness to do this, but I agree absolutely with EEK.
  • CMEastCMEast Members Join Date: 2002-05-19 Member: 632Posts: 1,655
    Heck, if you've got a bigger gun then mug him back biggrin.gif
    user posted image
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