Anyone But Bush

AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined...Members Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Posts: 4,646
Hurting the election?
It's reletively easy to see that there has been a very strong anti-bush movement in the US, and this movement oftentimes doesn't have any real standing of its own except to be against Bush. In the past few months of campaigning and choosing a democratic candidate, this anti-bush movement has translated into nominating a candidate based only on his electibility, not his issues, and his campaign has basically boiled down to "I'm not Bush, vote for me!"

The real question is do you think this "anyone but Bush" mentality has adversly affected the real choice on the ballot, considering as the opposition's only standpoint is that he is the opposition? And for those of you who plan to be voting Kerry, do you honestly think he differs so much from Bush considering the fact that he and Bush share similar views on so many issues (ie, the war in Iraq, many tax issues, etc)?
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Comments

  • That_Annoying_KidThat_Annoying_Kid Sire of Titles Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14175Posts: 5,583 Advanced user
    anyone but bush 2004 [preferably kerry, simply becuase he has said he will help free us from peak oil]


    I make the voter cutoff for the 04 elections by a scant two months...


    I think this election will be decided by the swing republicans who are tired of the deficit spending etc.
  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    Well this is something I have long ago realized from the moment I noticed the "anyone but Bush" morons. Don't get me wrong, there are allot of people out there that could do a better job then Bush, Kerry just isn't one of them. This guy has proven himself, IMO, to be a person of little or no political skill, completely lacking a personality, and whatever heroic efforts he may have done in Vietnam are completely besmirched by his little ribbon/medal tossing extravaganza.

    If you ask me the "anyone but Bush" movement has already hurt the Democrats not the Republicans, they all rallied around Kerry far too quickly, before evaluating what a horrible choice he was. Look at his voting record, he supported the War on Terror, The war in Iraq, Bush's two biggest issues, but then he goes and doesn’t vote for a bill that would provide troops with more equipment and body armor. This stuff is making him a bright red flashing neon target.

    His proposed tax on gas couldn't come at a worse time with record high gas prices, and peak oil starting to come out into the public light more and more. If he was smart he would start campaigning heavily for alternative fuels, at least that would give him something to stand on.

    Another thing whether you like his decisions or not, Bush leads. He doesn’t try and take both sides of an issue, he makes a decision and sticks with it. Kerry keeps changing his base, he can't seem to make up his mind, and people are noticing.

    But it's early, and a lot of people just hate Bush personally no matter how horrible Kerry is, so I guess it could go ether way.
  • AllUrHiveRblong2usAllUrHiveRblong2us By Your Powers Combined... Members Join Date: 2002-12-20 Member: 11244Posts: 4,646
    QUOTE (reasa @ Jun 1 2004, 03:07 PM)
    Another thing whether you like his decisions or not, Bush leads. He doesn?t try and take both sides of an issue, he makes a decision and sticks with it. Kerry keeps changing his base, he can't seem to make up his mind, and people are noticing.

    That's my main issue with the man, he seems to be the most indecisive in a long line of middle-of-the-road democrats. I am a firm believer in the fact that you can't find a good liberal choice on the ballot anymore, even going back to the days of Perot he was the most unique of the candidates, the only one who spoke out against NAFTA, etc. In this election and the last the only even moderately visible choice candidate is of course Nader, and if he plays his cards right he could be a bigger factor this year than last year. I don't care if all the votes Nader pulls in end up with another 4 years of Bush and his kin in the white house, since frankly the two are so startlingly similar in rhetoric and stance that it wouldn't matter anyways.
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  • SkySky Members Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Posts: 3,666
    Was Kerry ever supposed to become the top Democratic candidate? I was under the impression a few months ago that the election would be Dean v Bush....why did Dean lose the primaries?
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  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    edited June 2004
    QUOTE (5kyh16h91 @ Jun 1 2004, 03:52 PM)
    Was Kerry ever supposed to become the top Democratic candidate? I was under the impression a few months ago that the election would be Dean v Bush....why did Dean lose the primaries?

    I believe it was Dean’s strange fixation with kittens that was his downfall. tounge.gif

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    Slightly more on topic, it is interesting to see what happens to a modern politician when he shows too much emotion in front of the cameras. Dean still had allot of support but his psychotic speech pretty much ruined it for him. Doubt he would have been a good president though.
  • killswitchkillswitch Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13141Posts: 684
    QUOTE (5kyh16h91 @ Jun 1 2004, 10:52 PM)
    Was Kerry ever supposed to become the top Democratic candidate? I was under the impression a few months ago that the election would be Dean v Bush....why did Dean lose the primaries?

    This kind of explains when Dean's campaign went downhill wink.gif

    But yes, anybody-but-Bush really is a bad mentality. The biggest criticism you can lob against Bush is the war on Iraq, and over-spending. The partial birth abortion ban and **** marriage are others, but they weren't overly disasterous.

    Kerry has the benefit of not been president, so we can only criticize what he's said, or rather what he's sort-of-said. Kerry is too indecisive and duplicitous. As bad as Bush is, Kerry would be much worse, and Nader would be much worse than either of them.

    You can't just not-vote-Bush without regard to who you WILL be voting for.
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  • B33FB33F Members Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9362Posts: 136
    edited June 2004
    I'd rather have a President who can change his mind than a President who decides what is right, than does that regardless of new information or advice.

    Anyway, now that Kerry is going to be the Dem. candidate, "Anyone but Bush" really means "Kerry instead of Bush", because we all know that 3rd party candidates really have no chance.
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  • reasareasa Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 8010Posts: 2,367
    QUOTE (B33F @ Jun 1 2004, 04:41 PM)
    because we all know that 3rd party candidates really have no chance.

    Although Nader could very well decide the outcome of this election. I have a hard time figuring out if Nader dislikes Democrats, Kerry, or the two party system, or he just has an ego the size of the Potomac River.

    Ether way he is an important player in this election, plus it sounds like he's going to get allot more votes this time around, as people are getting quite fed up with the partisan politics and polarized parties.
  • SkySky Members Join Date: 2004-04-23 Member: 28131Posts: 3,666
    QUOTE (reasa @ Jun 1 2004, 07:04 PM)
    QUOTE (B33F @ Jun 1 2004, 04:41 PM)
    because we all know that 3rd party candidates really have no chance.

    Although Nader could very well decide the outcome of this election. I have a hard time figuring out if Nader dislikes Democrats, Kerry, or the two party system, or he just has an ego the size of the Potomac River.

    Ether way he is an important player in this election, plus it sounds like he's going to get allot more votes this time around, as people are getting quite fed up with the partisan politics and polarized parties.

    Viva la revolution?
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  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Posts: 1,345
    edited June 2004
    Now I'm no huge Kerry fan, but it's amazing how Bush's negative ads and the 'liberal media' have generally distorted him on a number of issues . . .

    QUOTE
    whatever heroic efforts he may have done in Vietnam are completely besmirched by his little ribbon/medal tossing extravaganza.


    He protested the war in which he fought so we would stop sending our young soldiers to die in the Godforsaken conflict . . . to me, that's a good thing.

    QUOTE
    doesn’t vote for a bill that would provide troops with more equipment and body armor. This stuff is making him a bright red flashing neon target.


    Kerry voted against it as a protest vote, when it was clear that it was going to pass by a wide margin. He supported supplying the troops with all equipment necessary, but he was adamant that we fund it by axing an additional tax cut. His point was that the 87 million should have come from one of the refunds-- you know, regular Americans sacrificing something for the war effort. Seems pretty sensible to me.

    QUOTE
    Another thing whether you like his decisions or not, Bush leads. He doesn’t try and take both sides of an issue, he makes a decision and sticks with it.


    If he was a well informed policy hound, then this would be remarkable and admirable. Instead, it's downright scary. I think too often we mistake his ignorance and inflexibility for strength of character. And I don't mean to paint him with the sloppy and inaccurate 'Bush is a moronic idiot' brush. That's not the case. But he does have an anti-intellectual streak, and he is quite open about the fact that he relies on other people to fill him in on the most basic information and events.

    I think Kerry is a bright guy, though he does lack any sort of charisma. I think it's time for a reboot of our leadership-- especially since the only thing that scares me more than the current administration would be the current administration without re-election worries. I can't imagine Kerry doing a much worse job, and he won't rescind my tiny tax cut (at least he has campaigned that he won't; we'll see how that works out in practice). If he isn't up to the task, I'll gladly vote for a solid Republican ticket next time around.
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  • EEKEEK Banned Join Date: 2004-02-25 Member: 26898Posts: 1,341
    edited June 2004
    When I hear these things, I start to think about who would be better...

    Then I remember what ALL presidents do: Hold back their first term so they can get reelected, then go nuts the second term since they can't get reelected.

    Bush's second term would be a disaster. Bush is trying to avoid mistakes for reelection and the world is STILL going to hell. Imagine what he'd do when he pulls out ALL the stops.
    QUOTE (Marine01)
    It hurts me, deep down, on a whole other level of conciousness to do this, but I agree absolutely with EEK.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710Posts: 6,952 mod
    Personally, I've been an 'Anybody But Bush: 2004'-ite, as you put it, since 2001. It's not that people want Kerry... it's that a bloody ebola-infested Bonabo ape could do a better goddamned job after being bludeoned in the ****ing head with an old seventh-grade social studies textbook!

    The man is a monkey. He is a moron. He is making America into a complete laughingstock, whereas we were just seen as being stuck-up before. He is the reason, the cause, the creator, the instigator of terror. He lies, he uses fear tactics on the populace (OMGz0rz!!!11!! T3rr0rZ 4l3r7!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to divert attention from what a goddamned moron he is. He supports war, as a deserter in the US Armed Forces. He supports harsher drug laws, after being a repeat-offender cocaine addict.


    I'll say it again. I do not want that moron in office. Kerry at least might be able to pronounce 'nuclear' or take his job seriously enough to remember the names of the nation-leaders he's meeting with that day, if nothing else changes.
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  • EEKEEK Banned Join Date: 2004-02-25 Member: 26898Posts: 1,341
    Funny thing is, people say 'indecisive' like it's a bad thing.

    Who would you rather have president, someone who does EXACTLY what he wants, literally ignores everyone, and then makes up lies and stories to justify why he did it, or some guy who likes to try to make everyone happy?

    Kerry seems indecisive because, and his own campaign managers say this, he wants to please everyone, even though you can't. I think that because of this, he'd be an excellent president. Instead of being a corporate slob like Bush who pulls favors for his big-business-buddies, Kerry is the kind of guy who'd cut big business a break, then try to make small business happy with something else. He's actually pretty moderate, in a way.
    QUOTE (Marine01)
    It hurts me, deep down, on a whole other level of conciousness to do this, but I agree absolutely with EEK.
  • ForlornForlorn Banned Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Posts: 6,495
    I believe an indecisive leader is worse than a decisive one.

    Even if a president goes forth making stupid mistakes, it's better than a president who is backtracking himself and unable to decide on important issues.



    For the record however, Kerry has a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGG history of being behind someone in the polls, and then coming back within the last month or so and taking it in for the win.

    Don't believe me? Go do some research on the massachusetts senator campaigns, and also take note of how Dean fell before Kerry's amazing comebacks.

    Even though I won't vote for him, I have to admit it that he sure is one hell of a politician, he breaks records when he has seemingly nothing going for him...

    Credit must always been given where it's due tounge.gif
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  • killswitchkillswitch Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13141Posts: 684
    QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 2 2004, 05:36 AM)
    The man is a monkey. He is a moron.

    It will never cease to amaze me how someone who goes graduates from Yale, and subsequently risees to be the most powerful man in the world is a 'moron'. Either he's incredibly smart, or incredibly stupid. Your call.
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  • panda_de_malheureuxpanda_de_malheureux Members Join Date: 2003-12-26 Member: 24775Posts: 1,633
    He was a cheerleader at Yale.
  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710Posts: 6,952 mod
    edited June 2004
    Incredibly stupid. Anyone can graduate from a 'big name' college, if their family has enough money and connections. And given that's roughly what happened in getting him into the presidency in the first place (the final recount placed Gore solidly in the lead, but the supreme court appointed Bush before those recounts could be finished thanks to convenient delays), I have no doubts that he went through college just like he has throught he rest of his life. A gibbering moron. Hell, he's the only president of which I am aware that actually has books devoted to his mis-statements and mangling of the english language.

    The question is, who is more Sorry Tal, but I've got to agree with the reports. It is offensive. Feel free to nuke any 'tree-hugger' comments in kind wink.gif after such a dismal showing of character, wit, and honesty.. bowing to fear tactics scared up specifically to feed and influence the paranoia emplaced there by a mistake, when the president was fore-warned by no less than seven other intelligence agencies about the attacks. Though 'mistake' is difficult to define, when it's an intentional happenstance.
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  • EEKEEK Banned Join Date: 2004-02-25 Member: 26898Posts: 1,341
    edited June 2004
    I'd reply to this but I'm afraid Talesin is going to trace my IP and strangle me in my sleep D:

    To be somewhat non-spammy, I think that bush took office trying to be a crusader for America, seeking out to change the world, and was without any clue on how politics worked at all. Looking at how active he's been (for better or for worse, that's your opinion) in world politics, he looks like what would happen if you gave a Sophomore football player in high-school the presidency. "Omg we got bombed, kill the Muslims!" was how everyone without a brainstem felt after 9/11. That's pretty much how Bush felt too.
    QUOTE (Marine01)
    It hurts me, deep down, on a whole other level of conciousness to do this, but I agree absolutely with EEK.
  • SpoogeSpooge Thunderbolt missile in your cheerios Members Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 67Posts: 1,531 Fully active user
    edited June 2004
    QUOTE (EEK @ Jun 2 2004, 02:06 AM)
    To be somewhat non-spammy, I think that bush took office trying to be a crusader for America, seeking out to change the world, and was without any clue on how politics worked at all.

    This clearly shows you weren't paying attention during the previous Presidential election campaign. From the primaries to the debates, Bush held the Conservative line that goings-on outside our borders was their problem, not ours.

    Related line nuked.

    On to the main topic:
    You're about 6-7 months too late. And you're not alone in your "buyers remorse". The Democratic party planned early on to push this process through as fast as possible. Anybody else get the feeling that the process started a long time ago? You'd be right. They moved most of the key primary States ahead of their regular schedule by months in some cases. That squeeze put off other viable candidates long before any States had the chance to choose. Take Gephardt for example: A candidate with at least as much political background as Kerry drops out after the first caucus? Dean and Lieberman (who was the selected vice-presidential candidate for Gore in 2000) drop out a mere couple weeks later? Who's left after January? Sharpton? Kucinich? Please.
    I don't want to come off with an "I told you so" attitude but it's been widespread knowledge for months that Kerry wasn't selected so much as he was "deduced" by a small percentage of States and a feverish news media.
    Of course, the whispered conspiracy theories report that Kerry is the perfect man for the candidacy because the DNC (read-Clinton/Mcauliffe) wants someone they can program or mold.
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710Posts: 6,952 mod
    edited June 2004
    Which you would be quite justified in doing, excepting the fact that I did not flame specific users. I simply placed the issue into very reduced terms. What does that truly say about a person, when they are willing to place their vote toward someone who has edit his term in office, to follow the herd line and show 'loyalty'?
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  • ForlornForlorn Banned Join Date: 2002-11-01 Member: 2634Posts: 6,495
    Talesin, you follow way too much rhetoric, that much cannot be good for your health

    QUOTE
    The question is, who is more moronic... the moron, or the ones who try to place him into office again after such a dismal showing of character, wit, and honesty.. bowing to fear tactics scared up specifically to feed and influence the paranoia emplaced there by a mistake, when the president was fore-warned by no less than seven other intelligence agencies about the attacks. Though 'mistake' is difficult to define, when it's an intentional happenstance.


    1. The republicans are moronic because they ask the president to run again for office for his second term? confused.gif

    2. If our president had so much warning, where was Clinton for the past 8 years?

    3. Regardless of if 9/11 could have been prevented, saying that "we should have done something different" is quite the Monday morning quarter back syndrome. Untill you are president, I really wouldn't judge how someone handles vague evidence at best amoung hundreds of other threats. I know I wouldn't know what to do in that situation and no one can blame bush either.
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  • TalesinTalesin Our own little well of hate NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators Join Date: 2002-11-08 Member: 7710Posts: 6,952 mod
    edited June 2004
    A two-week-early warning isn't enough fore-notice, I suppose.

    And yes... let me say is slowly, as it appears to be creating cognitive dissonance. If a political party realizes they have a COMPLETE minor edit as their candidate, it is an individual's responsibility to vote against that person, even if they are the incumbent.
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  • BigBullBigBull Members Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15123Posts: 2,478
    QUOTE (That Annoying Kid @ Jun 1 2004, 02:56 PM)
    anyone but bush 2004 [preferably kerry, simply becuase he has said he will help free us from peak oil]


    I make the voter cutoff for the 04 elections by a scant two months...


    I think this election will be decided by the swing republicans who are tired of the deficit spending etc.

    John Kerry is not a good alternative to bush.

    Kerry changes his stance on every issue multiple times.

    Ugh Im too damn brown for a sig.
  • SnidelySnidely Members Join Date: 2003-02-04 Member: 13098Posts: 3,893
    edited June 2004
    Talesin: what do you feel he's done wrong? It's not really kosher to come into the Discussion forums and just provide the vague accusation of "Bush is dumb". Let's hear some criticisms about his policies, other than the well-trod 911 or Iraq issues.

    (I don't really have an opinion since I haven't been following the US news for a while. I just want to hear the cons and pros of the candidates' policies.)
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  • HandmanHandman Members Join Date: 2003-04-05 Member: 15224Posts: 277
    QUOTE
    A two-week-early warning isn't enough fore-notice, I suppose


    Telesin, I don't think you are understanding what forlorn is saying. Do you know how many warning the president gets that never actually come to pass. With out being in a need to know position in the government, there is no way you could. You can, however, get a vague idea by looking at the threat level; and that thing is jumping all over the place.

    QUOTE
    The question is, who is more moronic... the moron, or the ones who try to place him into office again after such a dismal showing of character, wit, and honesty


    Well thanks for letting me know I'm a moron, I guess should just quit grad school and go work at Burger King. Just because someone doesnt agree with you, does not qualify them as stupid.


    I think the "anybody but bush" mentality has hurt the democratic party a lot. It lead to a rush to nominate the democrate's presidential canidate, not giving us a full picture of who was being nominated. Kerry is a true politician, he tells people what they want to hear with no intention of doing anything he says. I think lieberman(I mean the father from ALF) would had been a better canidate, I might have voted for him.
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  • BathroomMonkeyBathroomMonkey Feces-hurling Monkey Boy Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 78Posts: 1,345
    edited June 2004
    QUOTE (BigBull @ Jun 2 2004, 01:46 PM)

    John Kerry is not a good alternative to bush.

    Kerry changes his stance on every issue multiple times.

    As does Bush-- somewhere amidst the media's constant portrayal of Bush as a 'strong, decisive leader' his numerous flip flops have gone all but completely ignored.
    Such as (most courtesy of dailykos):


    Bush is against campaign finance reform; then he's for it.

    Bush is against a Homeland Security Department; then he's for it.

    Bush is against a 9/11 commission; then he's for it.

    Bush is against an Iraq WMD investigation; then he's for it.

    Bush is against nation building; then he's for it.

    Bush is against deficits; then he's for them.

    Bush is for free trade; then he's for tariffs on steel; then he's against them again.

    Bush is against the U.S. taking a role in the Israeli Palestinian conflict; then he pushes for a "road map" and a Palestinian State.

    Bush is for states right to decide on **** marriage, then he is for changing the constitution.

    Bush first says he'll provide money for first responders (fire, police, emergency), then he doesn't.

    Bush first says that 'help is on the way' to the military ... then he cuts benefits

    Bush-"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. Bush-"I don't know where he is. I have no idea and I really don't care.

    Bush claims to be in favor of the environment and then secretly starts drilling on Padre Island.

    Bush talks about helping education and increases mandates while cutting funding.

    Bush first says the U.S. won't negotiate with North Korea. Now he will

    Bush goes to Bob Jones University. Then says he shouldn't have.

    Bush said he would demand a U.N. Security Council vote on whether to sanction military action against Iraq. Later Bush announced he would not call for a vote

    Bush said the "mission accomplished" banner was put up by the sailors. Bush later admits it was his advance team.

    Bush was for fingerprinting and photographing Mexicans who enter the US. Bush after meeting with Pres. Fox, he's against it.




    More of these, with better documentation and analysis are located here. (Yes, it's a left leaning think tank, but attack the points if you will, not the source).

    Bush has been quietly flip flopping his way through office. Take the Department of Homeland Security, for instance-- he was firmly against it, and then when it looked like it was destined for creation whether or not he approved of it, it was suddenly his idea.

    And the final one-- on fingerprinting Mexicans-- I heard one right wing radio host describe it as a 'cagey political move to garner the Hispanic vote'. Sorry guy, spin it all you want, but if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck . ..

    Now, onto the 'Bush as idiot' debate. I think he's a pretty ignorant guy, but it's almost his choosing to be that way-- he probably has a decent intellectual potential, but he doesn't seem to have any urge to expand his horizons or expend any energy in that direction. Again, he seems perfectly comfortable allowing other people to sift, distill, and pass information along to him.

    Let's be honest-- if he wasn't born George Bush, would he be where he is today? Now, I understand that he's not the only politician or figure who would suffer that challenge. But he might be one who suffers the most.

    By way of comparison (especially to tick the cons off tounge.gif), we know what would become of Clinton if he was born in a trailer park. Imagine Bush coming from that same environment.

    Additionally, I don't like some of the people he puts his faith in-- Ashcroft is not the man who should be the number one law enforcement official in this country, and Chalabi . . . uh . . . we can file him under 'really bad for national security', no? How many millions did we give that traitor?
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  • BlackPlagueBlackPlague Banned Join Date: 2004-02-02 Member: 25990Posts: 1,099
    edited June 2004
    Keep this productive, please.
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  • Jim_has_SkillzJim_has_Skillz Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12475Posts: 884
    QUOTE (killswitch1968 @ Jun 1 2004, 10:38 PM)
    QUOTE (Talesin @ Jun 2 2004, 05:36 AM)
    The man is a monkey. He is a moron.

    It will never cease to amaze me how someone who goes graduates from Yale, and subsequently risees to be the most powerful man in the world is a 'moron'. Either he's incredibly smart, or incredibly stupid. Your call.

    He was put into Yale through his father as you know but what you probably didn't know was that he was a straight C student and he majored in History. Now how can someone who majors in history not learn anything from the past and continue to make the same mistakes of the past?

    Also you might have not known that he was the head of his fraternity.
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  • taboofirestaboofires Members Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Posts: 2,246 Advanced user
    I'd be happy to see that somewhat unlikely Kerry-McCain ticket. Kerry contributes his not-being-bush to the forumula (but not a whole lot else), but then McCain provides basically everything a president should have.

    Heck, I'd vote for just a McCain-as-president ticket. He's one of the few people with influence that doesn't stink of politics.

    I also think Nader would do a good job, much better than Kerry. It is unfortunate that our voting system is distinctively 2-party.

    Most unfortunate of all is that the good candidates generally don't get their party's nomination. Getting the most votes seems to require a lot of watering down.
  • illuminexilluminex Members, Constellation Join Date: 2004-03-13 Member: 27317Posts: 784
    I know many smart people that cannot speak all that well. Oratory and rhetoric are an art form, not a judge of intelligence or character. Attempting to use such a menial flaw as a weapon to attack that individual's intelligence simply means that you are one of two things:

    1) A man with a political agenda attempting to utilize a small flaw as a weapon.

    2) An idiot

    I'd like to say that you are #1, judging from your posts.

    I would actually have respect for Kerry, even if he threw his own war medals in protest of the VietNam war; however, if you watch one of the first interviews with Kerry when he was running for office in Massachussetts, he flat out admits that they were not even his medals.

    How can you even START to blame Bush for the 9/11 attacks, when it was Clinton that slashed intelligence and defense funding? Oh yeah, that's right, Clinton was a victim of a vast right wing conspiracy. My mistake that the Lewinsky scandal broke just as it was revealed that he had sold stripped down stealth bomber parts to China. Funny how that happens.

    In any case, it really does not matter who you vote for at this point, we're in Iraq to stay for quite a while, even if it simply means the overhanging committment of American troops to Baghdad if anything seriously happens. Kerry knows this, that's why he isn't saying much to criticize Bush over the nation building in Iraq, instead focusing on attacking Bush over smaller domestic issues.
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