Unchaining Evolution Chambers

Trevelyan

alright... Its far enough to say that if you haven't voted yet... you should do so <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72187' target='_blank'>Here</a>

geekanarchy

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->you can easily balancethis, just by adjusting the costs of the chambers<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Chamber cost doesn't need to be changed. Aliens are currently the underdogs in classic and this merely gives them a much needed boost. Nerfing chamber costs would just bring aliens down into the pits again.
<!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::skulk::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/skulk.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='skulk.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Trevelyan

<!--QuoteBegin-geekanarchy+Jun 18 2004, 05:01 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (geekanarchy @ Jun 18 2004, 05:01 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Aliens are currently the underdogs in classic <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe the marine stackers are still having difficulty in understanding this concept/

RyoOhki

<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
I believe the marine stackers are still having difficulty in understanding this concept/<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No the marine stackers understand this all too well. The side that is the most powerful in a game inevitably attracts the most players, because a large number of gamers don't want a challange, they want to win. I remember back when 2.0 came out the alien side was heavily stacked, simply because they were stronger.

c4t

holy **** this idea sounds completely awesome. ive only been playing ns for about a week(but i play almost constantly, because i dont have a life) but i have noticed the DMS building style, anybody who builds a sensory first is SHOT DOWN SO FAST. its to the point, where building a SC and leaving the game is considered a great insult.


impliment this beta 5, please. it will make aliens much more fun, and those poor skulks wont be cannon fodder.



<3'er of kittens.

Soul_Rider

This topic has been started on a local forum of a clan server which i play on. I have adopted the avatar, and the sig links to this thread. Also any of you not yet aware, a poll has been placed up on this <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=72187' target='_blank'>Vote for unchaining here.</a>

I really hope this happens and improves the alien chances at the beginiing of the game!!!!!

I love to build sens first!!!!! Shame no-one else likes me when i do!!!

StarenseN

<!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2004, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2004, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Initially I was very supportive of this idea, but I've changed my mind, and here's why.

In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.

Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you !

ThorStryker

"In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group."
So do it again with three different chambers?

(Ok, we need a sens, then two def chambers)
Same thing.

Although 1.04 PermaGorge did create leadership and teamwork. No one comes to defend the gorge now <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

matso

<!--QuoteBegin-StarenseN+Jun 21 2004, 02:05 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (StarenseN @ Jun 21 2004, 02:05 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-moultano+Jun 10 2004, 09:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (moultano @ Jun 10 2004, 09:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Initially I was very supportive of this idea, but I've changed my mind, and here's why.

In a public server, the choice of first chamber is one of the few things that the entire alien team does as a group.

Socially this is an essential part of promoting teamwork for the kharaa. It serves the role that deciding who was going to gorge served in 1.04. Its a chance for the team to touch base with eachother, and decide what to do next. The more of these clear decision points there are in the game, the more teamwork oriented the game becomes. I don't think we should be removing any of them. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree with you ! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->

Originally, I disliked unchaining because I belived that unchaining the chambers would lead to less diversity in game, on the theory that you a sensory dropped first would make a different game than movement/defense.

Unfortunately, the way the game is played means that defense is simply too necessary for the higher lifeforms, which in turns means that chosing anything BUT DMS means aliens will loose.

Thus, the theoretical advantage with hive-locked chambers, ie getting a variety of gametypes, isn't going to be realized.

Which means that I'm all for unlocking the chambers now.

If we are only going to get one gametype, we should at least aim for the one containg the most diversity.

StoatBringer

NS is still beta, and Flayra has experimented with controversial changes before.

I say why not try it out and see what happens. If it's a disaster, change back again in the next release.

I'm fed up with DMS, like so many others here. Now we're back to the bad old days of "OMG sensory/movement first? stupid n00b gorge! F4 F4!"

Try it out and see how it works. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Sewlek

you are so right!!!

This will also add more fun to public games.

Align

And who doesn't like planning buildings as a gorge...?

Sewlek

gorge atm is little bit boring <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->

building your cloaked self healing bases with adrenalin boost for your carapace celerity gorge is more fun <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Mr_JeburtO

ive been playing ns with unchained chambers all wekk and all i have to say is that it is soooo unbalanced when u have a good alien team

waller

On brys that is ey jebby?
i would disaggree..

Marr

I'm so in favor of this change.

No multiplayer game should allow 1 player to screw over one's team.

If the current system is all that great, we should just hardcode DMS into the aliens' techtree. Less chance of a newb gorge dropping a lone MC or SC that way.

CEldin

<!--QuoteBegin-MR.JEBURTO+Jun 21 2004, 10:14 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MR.JEBURTO @ Jun 21 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ive been playing ns with unchained chambers all wekk and all i have to say is that it is soooo unbalanced when u have a good alien team <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Obviously it is unbalanced; it is completely unsupported by the Dev team. Any mod to NS will change the balance. The one thing the community has been trying to do is put fun back into the game, then balance later. The Dev team seems exceptionally unresponsive though.

At least aknowledge this idea? Say its stupid/bad or good whatever. Let us know you care.

Umbraed_Monkey

<!--QuoteBegin-MR.JEBURTO+Jun 21 2004, 01:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MR.JEBURTO @ Jun 21 2004, 01:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ive been playing ns with unchained chambers all wekk and all i have to say is that it is soooo unbalanced when u have a good alien team <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of strategies were employed by the said "good alien team" to make it unbalanced?

Trevelyan

yes, and what about the marine team? One would expect a good alien team to dominate a bad one... unchained chambers or not.

Mintman

I found when playing on an unchained chambers server that something along the lines of:

1 sensory in the main approach to first hive and maybe at another critical chokepoint (gives cloaking and access to the cloaking upgrade also to focus if you get a few of them)
2-3 DCs (obvious benefits)
1 MC when the second hive gets built (in case it gets attacked)

That seems to pretty much get you set against the marines without hurting your res too much.

Sewlek

a good marine team will own anyway

RyoOhki

My experiances with unchained servers are that a good alien side against a good marine side results in more marine victories than alien victories. And yes, this is with skilled players, on 7v7 or 8v8 games. I havn't seen imbalance at all; it actually gives the aliens a fighting chance as opposed to the current setup where they are steamrolled by marines swimming in res.

Cj_the_Dj

if someone already mentioned this, or if it was written in the first post sorry for posting/not understanding:

I agree with the idea, but in addition i think that aliens should be able to build as many chambers as they like but only a a number linear to the number of hives can be acctually used. Other then that, i'm with this idea 908174829307019164594% <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Ahnteis

<!--QuoteBegin-Cj the Dj+Jun 22 2004, 11:28 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cj the Dj @ Jun 22 2004, 11:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> if someone already mentioned this, or if it was written in the first post sorry for posting/not understanding:

I agree with the idea, but in addition i think that aliens should be able to build as many chambers as they like but only a a number linear to the number of hives can be acctually used. Other then that, i'm with this idea 908174829307019164594% <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
by used, I assume you are talking about individual upgrades? If so, that has been the idea from the beginning.

waller

<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Jun 21 2004, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Jun 21 2004, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MR.JEBURTO+Jun 21 2004, 01:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MR.JEBURTO @ Jun 21 2004, 01:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ive been playing ns with unchained chambers all wekk and all i have to say is that it is soooo unbalanced when u have a good alien team <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of strategies were employed by the said "good alien team" to make it unbalanced? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Blah, i play occasionaly on the same server as him, and from what i've seen, (It's not byfar as much as him...)The only reason this is anyway unbalanced is that if you get a gorge to drop 3 sc's asap, focus seems to F%^k over the rines for a while untill they get armour 1.

Cloak also tends to get kin of annoying if your playing rines.
So basicly this change would only really be in favour of early skulks, when it gets into late game, there isn't really a major change anywayz.




P.S i'm sorry if my post didn't make much sence i typed it pretty fast, if i see any typos i'll edit my post when i see them <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

saberx

<!--QuoteBegin-Ryo-Ohki+May 25 2004, 08:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ May 25 2004, 08:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>remove hive requirements for multiple chamber types.</b>
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've agreed everytime this topic has been brought up. It would be nice to finally see it happen...

waller

I heard the Devs where thinking about adding it into B5, or is thta just hearsay ?

SaltzBad

<!--QuoteBegin-Umbraed Monkey+Jun 21 2004, 03:54 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Umbraed Monkey @ Jun 21 2004, 03:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-MR.JEBURTO+Jun 21 2004, 01:14 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MR.JEBURTO @ Jun 21 2004, 01:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> ive been playing ns with unchained chambers all wekk and all i have to say is that it is soooo unbalanced when u have a good alien team <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What kind of strategies were employed by the said "good alien team" to make it unbalanced? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Whimper and say "Please dear god, don't hurt us" til you have Fades <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->

Zek

<!--QuoteBegin-waller+Jun 22 2004, 01:32 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (waller @ Jun 22 2004, 01:32 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I heard the Devs where thinking about adding it into B5, or is thta just hearsay ? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Nobody knows what the devs are thinking. They don't talk to us.

waller

Bah, flay needs to get someone to be like the news reader around here, it wouldn't cost him anything not even his time, and basicly he just keeps us informed about what's going on.

NS is becoming more and more like CS, do you know anymore good mods?