Racism.

EvenFlowEvenFlow Members Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11046Posts: 325
edited May 2004 in Discussions
How bad is it in the U.S. ?
Well a certain anonymous poster who I can only assume to be American ( not sure if black ppl are referred to as nigga's anywhere else in the world ) reared his ugly head again. Racism, as you all know, was a big problem here in South Africa, and to some extent still is, but we seem to slowly but surely be getting over it.
It's great to finally see kids of a different race walking around shopping malls together without giving a second thought to the color of someone's skin, are movement's such as the KKK *spit* still quite active over there, or are they just a bunch of trailer park trash with nothing better to do ?
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  • napinapi Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-03-01 Member: 14172Posts: 962
    ... you can ask the same question about every country. the US is no exception

    it is simply human nature - there are some people who will insist on taking a prejudice stance for little apparent reason.

    i know it isn't good, and i'm well aware of the problems it causes

    such is life
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  • 7Bistromath7Bistromath Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23928Posts: 1,725
    edited May 2004
    It really depends on who you ask. Some say it's been nearly stamped-out. Others say it's flourishing.

    For my part, it's not something you see in everyday life, and when you do see it, the only time it isn't openly detested among polite company is when it's lighthearted ribbing that the person on the butt end laughs at just as much.

    It DOES seem to be much more prevalent among the gaming community. I cite Penny Arcade's Greater Internet Fsckwad Theorem.
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  • ZiGGYZiGGY Members Join Date: 2003-01-19 Member: 12479Posts: 3,039
    QUOTE (Even~Flow @ May 14 2004, 08:06 AM)
    not sure if black ppl are referred to as nigga's anywhere else in the world

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  • EvenFlowEvenFlow Members Join Date: 2002-12-18 Member: 11046Posts: 325
    QUOTE (shanks @ May 14 2004, 02:16 AM)
    ... you can ask the same question about every country. the US is no exception

    Agreed, so then I'll ask you about the KKK, are they kinda like satanists, ppl know that they exist you but never actually see them in real life ?
    We're all upside down, there's an upside of down.

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  • BlackMageBlackMage [citation needed] Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-06-18 Member: 17474Posts: 3,196
    edited May 2004
    the fact that there is any att all, in addition to the fact that there's enough to warrant a discussion shows that there is far too much
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  • AfrAfr Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16240Posts: 633
    Here in the southern part of sweden its a really large problem. We have lots of new people arriving everyday and som parts there are rarely and "swedish" people left.

    We even have ghettoes .. in SWEDEN... didt expect that did you?
  • Paranoia2MBParanoia2MB Members Join Date: 2002-11-09 Member: 7832Posts: 2,191
    It's around, i'm not really bothered by it. My friends and I always taunt each other for fun with racist stereotypes and etc. nerd.gif
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  • JavertJavert Members Join Date: 2003-04-30 Member: 15954Posts: 784 Fully active user
    It still stands in certain parts of the U.S., namely the "Bible Belt", the "Solid South", and some parts of LA and Chicago.


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  • 7Bistromath7Bistromath Members, Constellation Join Date: 2003-12-04 Member: 23928Posts: 1,725
    edited May 2004
    QUOTE (Black Mage @ May 14 2004, 02:52 AM)
    the fact that there is any att all, in addition to the fact that there's enough to warrant a discussion shows that there is far too much

    True enough, but I think it's important to note that with dead social fallacies like this, "far too much" does not necessarily translate to "large problem." The less of something there is, the less of it has to be there to produce outrage, after all.

    PS: Sorta off-topic, but I'd just like to note that satanists (the ones who are actually satanists, not the ones who say they are because it's k3wl) are only maligned because people assume that they stand on the side of evil because of the fairly obvious name and symbolism. In fact, satanist philosophy is no such horrible thing. They don't even actually worship Satan, they use Satan and other such symbolism (some bits from religions other than Christianity from what I understand, so it's not purely a reaction to Christianity) to show their distaste for religion in general. Their actual philosophy is really just an extension of humanism; that mankind is the defining force of the world, that we are greater than any god which could be conceived. Many also extend it further, to a sort of self-worship.

    Of course, any real satanist would want you to think he was evil. The symbolism is there just to annoy you. tounge.gif
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  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Members Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Posts: 3,142
    Racism here in Australia is a pretty big problem, in that it exists in disturbing amounts. Part of that is because Australian aboriginals recieve things like Abstudy (pays for education) and some people don't think they deserve it (the catch is of course that Aboriginals are quite often economically disadvantaged, so they do need the help). Another part would be high levels of drug and alcohol abuse in Aboriginal communities (especially petrol sniffing), which makes some people think that Aboriginals are beyond help. Still more would be the ofter-effects of the "White Australia Policy", the "Stolen Generation" and 200+ years of genocide and racial persecution.

    For non-Australians, I'll explain the above policies. Until the 1950's, Australia had a "White Australia policy" with regards to immigration; that is, whites were given preferential immigration rights. It was only after the Second World War that the Australian government realised that the country needed more people to defend itself, and so opened the gates a little.

    The Stolen Generation is another story. Aboriginal children were taken from their parents and placed within white familes and missions, where they were raised "white". Aboriginal families were considered too "backwards" to care for their children and recieved no compensation for these actions. This was government policy up to the 1970's.

    It's not just Aboriginal racism however; a disturbing number of Australians also have a great deal of hatred towards Asian people, whom they see as unwelcome and a threat. Asian immigration has picked up a lot over the past 40 odd years, abnd florishing Asian communities exist in most major Australian cities. Too many Australians would prefer the White Australia policy to be still in effect, as demonstrated by the rise in popular support for the racist politics of Pauline Hanson.

    So yeah. Racism is still around.
  • NecroticNecrotic Big Girl's Blouse Members, NS1 Playtester Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 53Posts: 1,441
    Here in Britain with our policies on immagration allowing tens of thousands of people from other countries in, both legally and illegally racist tendencies are on the rise. Racist attacks on people of other "colours" are always on the news usally because its stupid people picking on the first non-white person who speaks with an accent they come across thinking they're an illegal immigrant then it turns out they're here perfectly legitamtely.
    Also theres a rise in the popularity of the BNP (British National Party) which is basically a bunch of white skinhead Neo-Nazi's playing at politics.

    Conversely where I live is a highly multi-national area and I don't see much open racism round here...
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  • Speed_2_DaveSpeed_2_Dave Members Join Date: 2002-11-15 Member: 8788Posts: 1,375
    as for the zing about the Bible Belt... Ouch. Most of america is "the Bible Belt" these days (but I've only lived in the south and midwest, so maybe I'm not qualified to say so)

    You want to find racists? Try West Virginia. I'm not just saying that because it's funny, it's scarily true over there. It's like Mississippi and Arkansas export all of their trash to one state.
  • RyoOhkiRyoOhki Members Join Date: 2003-01-26 Member: 12789Posts: 3,142
    QUOTE
    You want to find racists? Try West Virginia. I'm not just saying that because it's funny, it's scarily true over there. It's like Mississippi and Arkansas export all of their trash to one state.


    On a possibly related note, isn't Lynndie England (the girl at the centre of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal) from West Virginia?
  • Marine0IMarine0I Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8639Posts: 1,870
    I agree with a lot Ryo said, especially the bit about anti-Aboriginal racism originating from their apparent inability to lift a finger to help themselves. Large amounts of them are in jail, large numbers live on the street abusing drugs and alcohol, and their leaders are corrupt as all hell.

    Recently in Australia, the ATSIC branch of the government, run by Aboriginals for Aboriginals, was shut down following massive corruption and featherbedding amongst its leaders. I have an uncle who works with his wife in an Aboriginal community, and I have never met a more defeated man. He tried to explain to me exactly what he was facing up in the Norther Terrority, but words eventually failed him. He finally just said "They cant help themselves, and they resent it if white fellas try and help in any way other than free handouts. I was trying to provide them with plumbing for their houses, and they stole constantly from us whilst complaining at the amount of time it took. My wife was nearly assualted for trying to untie a woman from a tree after her Aborginal husband tied her up and flogged her with a tyre tube. Their cultural morality has been stripped from them by white folks, and nothing has replaced it."

    Personally, I find it hard to generate any empathy for the Aboriginals. I also find it ironic that the "Stolen Generation" spoke out, and yet those who spoke out weren't from the gutter, having being raised properly in decent families. I don't see that as a justification for stealing a generation of children from their parents, but I can certainly understand the mentality of the Churches and Government officials that participated in this.
  • Nemesis_ZeroNemesis_Zero Old European Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Constellation Join Date: 2002-01-25 Member: 75Posts: 12,841
    ***Moved.***
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  • MoquiaoMoquiao Members Join Date: 2003-05-09 Member: 16168Posts: 2,946
    edited May 2004
    QUOTE (Necrotic @ May 14 2004, 10:06 AM)
    Here in Britain with our policies on immagration allowing tens of thousands of people from other countries in, both legally and illegally racist tendencies are on the rise. Racist attacks on people of other "colours" are always on the news usally because its stupid people picking on the first non-white person who speaks with an accent they come across thinking they're an illegal immigrant then it turns out they're here perfectly legitamtely.
    Also theres a rise in the popularity of the BNP (British National Party) which is basically a bunch of white skinhead Neo-Nazi's playing at politics.

    Conversely where I live is a highly multi-national area and I don't see much open racism round here...

    No matter which forum you started this reply in, this kind of language is not appropriate.

    from what i know of my area... there is a ton of fights per week it is just how it is..but the ones which are black vs white or w/e always get called and viewed as 'racist' that is people unwilling to admit that humans are just that freaking stupid that they fight over nothing

    'oh he was selling his smack on my corner, lets stab him.'

    that is the mentality.. it isnt cos he is black white yellow purple **** the **** could be pink with green spots. the fight would still happen.

    media and the general public put it down to racism, cos they cant cop to how bad society is..

    i have never seen anyone be racist. swear on my life. ive heard things from my half sister (black) in us about how she has been hassled for having white mom/black dad... but where i live... people are people...
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  • taboofirestaboofires Members Join Date: 2002-11-24 Member: 9853Posts: 2,246 Advanced user
    At least in the US, age has a lot to do with racism. My grandparents on either side said things like "I don't want to live in the same neighborhood as those colored kids." Middle aged-people seem to have a wide spectrum of thoughts on race (a lot of which has to do with parenting and where you grew up, like how integrated schools are). With youths, particularly those who have people of many ethnicities in their classes, are pretty good about it (but the bad apples are just as bad as my stubborn old grandparents).
  • CyndaneCyndane Members Join Date: 2003-11-15 Member: 22913Posts: 3,010 Advanced user
    Since I live in what is considered the middle of no where and there is really only one real town within a 4 hour driving radius. Yes.. I am THAT far from a major city, eg over 500k.

    There is some racism here, however most if it seems to be confined to those areas where they are "forced" (eg lower income housing for refugees and like, though not all are poor by any means) to live together and most of the time it doesn't seem relevant to myself.

    In addition, it seems that many of the younger people here, (HS age) tend to not accept those not white and christian. Although the demographics here put 98% at white and christian.

    So.. other then a few spots centerally located in my city, there is not a lot of it, and when it does happen it only happens once every few years and then nothing.

    Its like they all learned we are the same and then the next generation comes along and has to relearn those same lessons. Which is kind of annoying really. :-)
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  • Edward_r2Edward_r2 Members Join Date: 2003-11-27 Member: 23626Posts: 84
    QUOTE (Even~Flow @ May 14 2004, 02:06 AM)
    ...are movement's such as the KKK *spit* still quite active over there, or are they just a bunch of trailer park trash with nothing better to do ?

    My, it certainly does sound like bigotry and prejudice are large problems where you're from.
    QUOTE
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  • WheeeeWheeee Members, Reinforced - Shadow Join Date: 2003-02-18 Member: 13713Posts: 4,262 Fully active user
    edited May 2004
    QUOTE (taboofires @ May 14 2004, 06:21 PM)
    At least in the US, age has a lot to do with racism.  My grandparents on either side said things like "I don't want to live in the same neighborhood as those colored kids."  Middle aged-people seem to have a wide spectrum of thoughts on race (a lot of which has to do with parenting and where you grew up, like how integrated schools are).  With youths, particularly those who have people of many ethnicities in their classes, are pretty good about it (but the bad apples are just as bad as my stubborn old grandparents).

    disagree completely.

    age has nothing to do with racism, from what i've observed. it's how you've been brought up. i've seen kids with little exposure to other races taunt multiethnic kids, and i've seen other kids be fine with others. i've seen middle-aged people who are racist and middle-aged people who aren't (especially towards specific ethnicities) because of old hatreds. and i've seen old people that are fine, and old people that aren't.

    i believe it mostly depends on the values you were raised with, not the amount of time you've been alive.
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    Every year in Cincinnati the KKK puts a cross up on fountain square. Personally I'm glad they do. Aside from affirming our fundamental right to free speech, its a good reminder that there are still people like that out there. If they are going to exist, I would rather they be very public about it. It certainly doesn't help race relations in the city though. We had race riots in this city two years ago after a white cop shot a black man in the back. The crimerates in the city still haven't recovered. We never used to have much crime in the neighborhood I live in, but since the riots there have been several murders, some of them people I was acquainted with. My two best friends were mugged at gunpoint a few blocks from my house. The general feeling is that the cops these days are too scared of a community backlash to do their job, and the criminals know it.
  • MavericMaveric Members Join Date: 2002-08-07 Member: 1101Posts: 2,923
    Those police officers are nothing but sponges; with no spine to speak of.

    If people get angry at the fact that said officer shot someone of a different color and not even hear a reason why the officer shot the dude, then something is seriously wrong with the society. Who knows, maybe the officer thought the dude had a gun? But, as soon as you get racism into something like a police station, it has to be stamped out, and quickly, before the entire situation degenerates into the situation you have now. confused.gif As well, as long as it wasn't live ammo, the dude should've lived, so there's no problem there.

    It wasn't live ammo, right?
    ... RIGHT?! sad.gif
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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    Well the guy did die, and he was unarmed, and was wanted for only misdemeanors. I'm not going to derail this thread with the details of the case but if you are interested, look up Timothy Thomas.
  • EEKEEK Banned Join Date: 2004-02-25 Member: 26898Posts: 1,341
    edited May 2004
    QUOTE (Javert @ May 14 2004, 03:10 AM)
    some parts of LA and Chicago.

    I've spent my whole life (less the last 6 months) living in both of those cities, and while it might look like racism from afar, trying living in those cities.


    All I'll say is sterotypes don't exist for no reason at all...


    QUOTE
    If people get angry at the fact that said officer shot someone of a different color and not even hear a reason why the officer shot the dude, then something is seriously wrong with the society. Who knows, maybe the officer thought the dude had a gun?


    The big one: Rodney King Jr.

    Who here saw the whole video? Anyone raise your hands? Anyone at all?

    That fifteen second clip of the LAPD beating RKJ with their sticks was not the whole video. In fact, the whole video was, I think, about 3 minutes long.

    Rodney King, for starters, was aced up to the eyeballs on LSD. Anyone who knows what LSD can do to you probably can tell right now what really happened. Secondly, Rodney King was roughly 7 feet tall and about 300-some pounds of solid muscle.

    The cops told him to get down. He didn't. They said again. He didn't. So they tried to take him down. There is one cop clinging to his back, and another pushing him. Rodney simply lifts the cop off his back and more or less throws him to the ground. He pushes the other cops away.

    So they hit him with a taser. 'ol Rodney pulls the tasers right out of his skin. Nice going! So they only have one thing left. Brute-****-force. They whip out their sticks and take him down. But he won't STAY down. After he's on the ground, he continues to fight the cops. The only way to keep him down was to make it so he couldn't get up.


    Another big one (This one from Chicago): LaTanya Haggerty

    Pulled over for a routine traffic stop. Police approach the car, and she refuses to get out. Several accounts abound about this, but the one most widly published in Chicago was that the officers saw her drop a shiney object, and stop and quickly grab it. The officers, fearing it was a gun, shot her to death.


    Another one from Chicago: Robert Russ

    Another traffic stop, and again, varied accounts. The most common account? Good 'ol quick-thinking Russ decided to try to disarm the cop, or push his gun away. If some massive college football player (a black one as well - The majority of inner-city shooting crimes in Chicago are at the hands of blacks and hispanics. I certainly would be cautious) is trying to grab for my gun, I'd put a few bullets to his brainbox.

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  • BigBullBigBull Members Join Date: 2003-04-02 Member: 15123Posts: 2,478
    edited May 2004
    ok heres my story and about where i live.

    I live in the south.
    Particularly North florida. Jacksonville, Florida

    Is there racism in the south? I'd say thats where the worst racism is. Where I live, specifically is what you would called the "ghetto" im like the only one with a computer. (Im half black btw)

    Anyway, Racism is definitly a problem. Just the way I dress, or with im with my friends who have dreds, or thier hair braided or look like thugs, we definlty get racially profiled, everytime we walk into a store or anything. People look at us, and are instantly thinking criminal.

    Heres one thing I dont like to talk about, but when i was about 12 i was walking up to the store which was across the street with my friend dante. The store owner says my friend has been seen in the store stealing before. My friend goes "I have only been here once" and the store owner goes All you **** **** (N-word) do the same thing. And he tosses us out of the store.

    Ignoring it isnt easy its just the way it is.

    Im not gonna lie, im sorta of racist toward white people too. Can you blame me?
    I never feel comfortable around a whiteperson yet I use to play online games that are filled with white people.

    No matter way you look at it, theres always racism, you just gotta deal. Im used to it by now.
    QUOTE
    Every year in Cincinnati the KKK puts a cross up on fountain square. Personally I'm glad they do

    I feel sorry for you. And if anything, you should open your eyes to the statement you just made.
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  • MrMojoMrMojo Members, Constellation Join Date: 2002-11-25 Member: 9882Posts: 3,948
    I don't believe racism in itself exists any more, but segregation does. It isn't mandatory or enforced, but kind of happens naturally between groups.

    Black people tend to be in one group, whites in another, mexicans in another, russians in another at my school. Sure, no one is racist and everyone gets along with each other. But the fact is, in all my accelerated and AP classes ( and I take a lot) there are almost no minorities except for a few asian people.


    I live in Minnesota, hardly a racist state.



    As far as natural racism, I believe that exists too. Us white middle class folk would really rather live near more white middle class folk than any other minority that would move it.


    ( again, using the term "minority" very loosely)
  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    QUOTE (BigBull @ May 15 2004, 06:08 AM)
    QUOTE
    Every year in Cincinnati the KKK puts a cross up on fountain square. Personally I'm glad they do

    I feel sorry for you. And if anything, you should open your eyes to the statement you just made.

    I think you misinterpreted what I was saying. Obviously the KKK is about as despicable as a group can get, and my preference would be that they not exist at all. What I was saying is that since they do exist, I would rather they be very public about it so we know that people like that still exist.
  • B33FB33F Members Join Date: 2002-11-19 Member: 9362Posts: 136
    edited May 2004
    My school was actually used as an example of segregation on a PBS show.
    QUOTE
    At Los Angeles' North Hollywood High School, a program places students in groups that offers only two paths - one for the college bound and one for vocational studies. BEYOND BROWN examines how this program has resulted in "schools within a school" offering very different resources and opportunities. Asians and white students typically follow the "talented and gifted" college track, while Latinos and African-Americans disproportionately populate a vocational curriculum that emphasizes "hands-on" skills such as home economics and wood shop.

    While it is true that the gifted program has mostly asians and whites and the regular school has mostly latinos and african-americans, this is not because of school policy or anything like that. Instead, it's mostly because asians and whites are disproportionately representative of the middle and upper class, and tend to be more likely to have parents that will take the trouble to get their students IQ tested.

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  • SkulkBaitSkulkBait Members Join Date: 2003-02-11 Member: 13423Posts: 2,543
    edited May 2004
    From my observations, racism in the US seems to be largely regonial. For instance, I live in Madison Wisconsin, and I can tell you that racism isn't much of a problem here. However a friend of mine goes to college in Montana and claims that racism is more prevalant there. In some ways I can't understand racism, yet it makes perfect sense phsychologically. People tend to generalize based on obvious factors, and the color of someones skin, or their accent, are the most obvious things about them, next come age and how they are dressed or wear their hair.

    This plays a part in things like the Rhodney King case, where many people drew the conclusion that he was brutalized because he was black, siince the color of his skin is more obvious than his size, build, or actions.
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  • moultanomoultano Creator of ns_shiva. Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts Join Date: 2002-12-14 Member: 10806Posts: 4,219 Advanced user
    QUOTE (B33F @ May 15 2004, 02:52 PM)
    While it is true that the gifted program has mostly asians and whites and the regular school has mostly latinos and african-americans, this is not because of school policy or anything like that. Instead, it's mostly because asians and whites are disproportionately representative of the middle and upper class,

    There was a lot of that segregation at the school I went to also. I don't know the cause of it. One thing I noticed in junior high is that a lot of smart black kids were ridiculed by their black friends for "trying to be white." The rest of us were just called nerds, etc. and just dealt with it. Its a lot harder to deal with being told that you are betraying your culture.
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