<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Apr 15 2004, 08:06 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Apr 15 2004, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It just boggles my mind to think of the skill level required to model something with 2-6 million polygons...
This ain't preschool anymore, folks <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I do it all the time using Rhino 3D. It's pretty simple really.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->now adds displacement mapping,<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> its the same thing, different name.
yes a million IS new, but having better detail than the previous game is to be expected, and so this is nothing new. featuring 10 million poly models is just another better game, featuring realistic hair is something to talk about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->never effectively with real-time soft ("fuzzy") shadowing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> aka alpha shadows.. yes it HAS been done before.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-version91x+Apr 15 2004, 10:59 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (version91x @ Apr 15 2004, 10:59 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> its the same thing, different name.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No, it isn't. Bump/normal maps don't give you things like parallax, which effectively extrudes a full 3d object out of a 2d face.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aka alpha shadows.. yes it HAS been done before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not off real-time calculations - note the shadows in Doom3. Projected textures and shadows have been the only way to do this before, and those have their limits.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
That doesn't apply to the reference models, though, because they never are shown in real-time. Reference models have to be at incredibly high detail to give the information that makes the well-made 3-10k poly critter look as if it still retains all 6 million. It still takes an incredible amount of talent to model hi-poly models at that level of detail. I think you'd find any modeler here stretched to make the quality of models they used for the reference art - we're talking motion picture quality here. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I mean, I can make a model with 6 million polys easy. But that doesn't mean it's good. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<a href='http://pc.ign.com/articles/501/501877p1.html' target='_blank'>Here's</a> some more info on the presentation, some of it wasn't shown on the video.
No screens tho <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Apr 15 2004, 12:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Apr 15 2004, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I mean, I can make a model with 6 million polys easy. But that doesn't mean it's good. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> yeah... wasting polys isnt hard..ask me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I would like to please ask one favor from the computer industries, can you please stop releasing new stuff. Just let me buy my top-of-line stuff and let it be top of the line for like, atleast a year... please? I don't have enough money to keep up with this stuff <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Apr 15 2004, 12:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Apr 15 2004, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I mean, I can make a model with 6 million polys easy. But that doesn't mean it's good. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly - 6 million QUALITY polies kind of blows my mind. The sheer time and effort it must take to create something quality out of that and to KEEP that standard of quality throughout.
I have a feeling all these new engines are gonna kill the customization scene - with such incredibly professionalism, little johnny making a marine replacement just isn't gonna cut it anymore.
I was thinking about this the other day - how just MAPPING is going to be incredibly harder with these brand new engines. Perhaps not harder - just more time consuming, one might say. Either way, unless the creation tools get incredibly much more powerful and easy-to-use, I fear that the custom scene will all but die out except for those relatively few people out there who are just so incredibly good anyways.
People always wonder and comment about how great the NS custom scene is; how great the CS custom scene is. It's the simplicity and low requirements that makes it so easy for people to get into it.
Maybe prefabs are gonna be the way of the future...either way, it's gonna be crazy unless someone pulls a rabbit ut of their arse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Dubbilex+Apr 15 2004, 04:40 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Dubbilex @ Apr 15 2004, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Apr 15 2004, 12:18 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Apr 15 2004, 12:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I mean, I can make a model with 6 million polys easy. But that doesn't mean it's good. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly - 6 million QUALITY polies kind of blows my mind. The sheer time and effort it must take to create something quality out of that and to KEEP that standard of quality throughout.
I have a feeling all these new engines are gonna kill the customization scene - with such incredibly professionalism, little johnny making a marine replacement just isn't gonna cut it anymore.
I was thinking about this the other day - how just MAPPING is going to be incredibly harder with these brand new engines. Perhaps not harder - just more time consuming, one might say. Either way, unless the creation tools get incredibly much more powerful and easy-to-use, I fear that the custom scene will all but die out except for those relatively few people out there who are just so incredibly good anyways.
People always wonder and comment about how great the NS custom scene is; how great the CS custom scene is. It's the simplicity and low requirements that makes it so easy for people to get into it.
Maybe prefabs are gonna be the way of the future...either way, it's gonna be crazy unless someone pulls a rabbit ut of their arse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, Doom 3 will be pretty scary to map for considering just what you would have to go through to make textures look good, creating super-high detail for EVERYTHING. I mean, it takes me a few good hours to make a considerably large not-very-detailed room look good, I can only image how hard its going to be when people expect every map to look up to par with professionally developed ones from id. Theres a big difference between somone creating a level who is in constant communication with the programmers and artists and somone who has to use whatever is out there.
Its going to be alot harder for sure, but there is an upside: Higher quality mods. You put the HL2 engine in the hands of folks like the NS team and the possibilities are wonderful. And of course there is Steam, which should allow mod teams to optionally charge for their mod... which has its merits, I would be willing to shell out some cash for NS2.
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Most mods probably won't use the full extent of a lot of these technologies the way some mod teams are able to squeeze every ounce out of an engine like they are now. Others will. There will still be people with average knowledge of the tech that will make fantastic pieces of work... and there will still be people with amazing knowledge of tech making really crappy work <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Stop being scared of the future! it's not going to change all that much. Sure, there's a ton of new gadgets and gizmos coming out, and there's a lot of things that <i>will</i> change, but the fundamentals will be the same. There will still be mods, there will still be user-created maps, there will still be custom models. There will still be downright horrible ones in all categories. There will still be great ones. The big thing I think we'll see is a polarization of quality of content. Right now there's a pretty even distribution of high to low quality in custom development. As it gets more complicated to make things look good, you'll see that middle area dissolve. The bad stuff will be even worse, but the good stuff... Good god. You need only look as far as UT2K3/4 maps and models to see where some of these people are capable of going. Remember when everyone was scared about -that- engine? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you let yourself get scared by the new tech, you may want to pursue a future outside of game development or content creation. Alternatively, you can look at what's laid out in front of you, rise to the challenge, and push yourself to and beyond your limits. That's what developers have to do to use this technology, and that's what mod developers will have to do as well.This is a chance to create something far beyond anything you've ever created before - I get a hell of a great feeling when I do something like that in a <i>Half-Life</i> map for crying out loud - I can't even begin to imagine what that will feel like when I get the hang of the software at Raven this summer.
<!--QuoteBegin-KungFuSquirrel+Apr 15 2004, 05:16 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (KungFuSquirrel @ Apr 15 2004, 05:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Most mods probably won't use the full extent of a lot of these technologies the way some mod teams are able to squeeze every ounce out of an engine like they are now. Others will. There will still be people with average knowledge of the tech that will make fantastic pieces of work... and there will still be people with amazing knowledge of tech making really crappy work <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Stop being scared of the future! it's not going to change all that much. Sure, there's a ton of new gadgets and gizmos coming out, and there's a lot of things that <i>will</i> change, but the fundamentals will be the same. There will still be mods, there will still be user-created maps, there will still be custom models. There will still be downright horrible ones in all categories. There will still be great ones. The big thing I think we'll see is a polarization of quality of content. Right now there's a pretty even distribution of high to low quality in custom development. As it gets more complicated to make things look good, you'll see that middle area dissolve. The bad stuff will be even worse, but the good stuff... Good god. You need only look as far as UT2K3/4 maps and models to see where some of these people are capable of going. Remember when everyone was scared about -that- engine? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you let yourself get scared by the new tech, you may want to pursue a future outside of game development or content creation. Alternatively, you can look at what's laid out in front of you, rise to the challenge, and push yourself to and beyond your limits. That's what developers have to do to use this technology, and that's what mod developers will have to do as well.This is a chance to create something far beyond anything you've ever created before - I get a hell of a great feeling when I do something like that in a <i>Half-Life</i> map for crying out loud - I can't even begin to imagine what that will feel like when I get the hang of the software at Raven this summer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That..was...<i>beautiful</i> *sniff*
<!--QuoteBegin-john_sheu+Apr 15 2004, 10:45 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (john_sheu @ Apr 15 2004, 10:45 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> imagine what pr0n0 machinimas would look like on such an engine...
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I like this guys way of thinking......
<!--QuoteBegin-Quaunaut+Apr 15 2004, 01:22 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Apr 15 2004, 01:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Yeah. Its probably Unreal Warfare: The MMOFPS that Epic's been wanting to make. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Where have you heard about Unreal Warfare and it being an MMOFPS. I’ve trawled lots of the internet and can’t find any mention of the game. I thought it was just the name of the ongoing Unreal engine
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I was thinking about this the other day - how just MAPPING is going to be incredibly harder with these brand new engines. Perhaps not harder - just more time consuming, one might say. Either way, unless the creation tools get incredibly much more powerful and easy-to-use, I fear that the custom scene will all but die out except for those relatively few people out there who are just so incredibly good anyways.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've though about this problem and I think a good short term solution is generic art assets en masse. If an object could be defined in and of itself without being in a specific game environment(e.g. model, textures, sounds associated with breaking in various ways, shaders assoiciated with some textures/geometry of the model, physical properties associated with the model etc.) then you would only have to worry about the basic geometry of your map and the very specific things you want to put into it, the rest would be props.
For this system to work props would have to be free(except possibly credits) so that anyone who wants to use them can and anyone who wants to create them can as well. This would be an insanely huge project and I can't really see any other game as easily modable and with as huge a fan following as half-life 2-3 pulling it off. Eventually it would be nice with a common standard so that many different games and companies can use the very same art assets for generic stuff(books, soda cans, computers, phones, swings, telephone poles, telephone boths, benches and all sorts of imaginable random objects that would be a pain in the arse to make with as high quality as the rest of the game if a small company/a bunch of sparetime MOD makers worked on it alone).
KungFuSquirrelBasher of MuttonsJoin Date: 2002-01-26Member: 103Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin-Soylent green+Apr 22 2004, 09:33 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Soylent green @ Apr 22 2004, 09:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I've though about this problem and I think a good short term solution is generic art assets en masse. If an object could be defined in and of itself without being in a specific game environment(e.g. model, textures, sounds associated with breaking in various ways, shaders assoiciated with some textures/geometry of the model, physical properties associated with the model etc.) then you would only have to worry about the basic geometry of your map and the very specific things you want to put into it, the rest would be props. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's... exactly how the Unreal engine works, and the direction many others are taking. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's that system that gives the Unreal engine its power and flexibility as well as the level of detail it is capable of churning out (instanced props render -far- faster than BSP geometry).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For this system to work props would have to be free(except possibly credits) so that anyone who wants to use them can and anyone who wants to create them can as well. This would be an insanely huge project and I can't really see any other game as easily modable and with as huge a fan following as half-life 2-3 pulling it off. Eventually it would be nice with a common standard so that many different games and companies can use the very same art assets for generic stuff(books, soda cans, computers, phones, swings, telephone poles, telephone boths, benches and all sorts of imaginable random objects that would be a pain in the arse to make with as high quality as the rest of the game if a small company/a bunch of sparetime MOD makers worked on it alone).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, that wouldn't work. You cannot standardize things across teams. Each team and project will have its own art style and a base art set such as this would completely tear that apart. There's no way you could accomodate for every possible style. Also, different projects will have different technical guidelines. What is an acceptable prop in one project may be entirely unacceptable in another (for whatever reason).
Is it really so hard to learn new skills and methods of doing things? Games used to be just a few people and mods were as few as 1 person. Now games are made by much larger teams and take longer and mod teams have grown to match. That trend will continue. The way things work now will not always continue to be, and trying to work around progress within the industry to prevent change will be shooting yourself in the foot.
<!--QuoteBegin-Crono5788+Apr 16 2004, 12:29 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Crono5788 @ Apr 16 2004, 12:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can make a 6 million pollie model easy...
A bunch of really big, really round toruses (spelling)... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> well some people would want to hive huge hi-poly donuts <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
It's actually simpler than you'd expect to make a good-looking high-poly model. NURBS->Polygons->Sub-D. Sure, it takes some planning and a good bit of work and practice to figure out how to get the patches to go where you want (and curve where and how you want), but once you get past that, it's mostly just seaming things up, making them nice and curvy, then adding detail, one area at a time.
It doesn't mean that little Johnny can't make a model replacement. It means that Johnny's Mom can settle down and make a pulse rifle that's highly detailed with sculptural aspects, rather than just boxy with textures (even good ones).
actually flash the whole 'Unreal Warfare' rumour mill has been kicking around for a while. You can probably find mention of it in passing at the official atari boards or whatever.
For a long time it's mainly been hearsay but the vast majority of things point to it being MMO-based. Beyond that little is geniunely known though there's oodles of speculation people are willing to tell you if you just ask the right people XD
Epic haven't really gone out of their way to deny it's existance either... just a sort of bemused silence =P
Comments
This ain't preschool anymore, folks <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
This ain't preschool anymore, folks <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I do it all the time using Rhino 3D. It's pretty simple really.
yes a million IS new, but having better detail than the previous game is to be expected, and so this is nothing new. featuring 10 million poly models is just another better game, featuring realistic hair is something to talk about.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->never effectively with real-time soft ("fuzzy") shadowing<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> aka alpha shadows.. yes it HAS been done before.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, it isn't. Bump/normal maps don't give you things like parallax, which effectively extrudes a full 3d object out of a 2d face.
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> aka alpha shadows.. yes it HAS been done before.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not off real-time calculations - note the shadows in Doom3. Projected textures and shadows have been the only way to do this before, and those have their limits.
I mean, I can make a model with 6 million polys easy. But that doesn't mean it's good. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
No screens tho <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
I mean, I can make a model with 6 million polys easy. But that doesn't mean it's good. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah... wasting polys isnt hard..ask me <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Exactly - 6 million QUALITY polies kind of blows my mind. The sheer time and effort it must take to create something quality out of that and to KEEP that standard of quality throughout.
I have a feeling all these new engines are gonna kill the customization scene - with such incredibly professionalism, little johnny making a marine replacement just isn't gonna cut it anymore.
I was thinking about this the other day - how just MAPPING is going to be incredibly harder with these brand new engines. Perhaps not harder - just more time consuming, one might say. Either way, unless the creation tools get incredibly much more powerful and easy-to-use, I fear that the custom scene will all but die out except for those relatively few people out there who are just so incredibly good anyways.
People always wonder and comment about how great the NS custom scene is; how great the CS custom scene is. It's the simplicity and low requirements that makes it so easy for people to get into it.
Maybe prefabs are gonna be the way of the future...either way, it's gonna be crazy unless someone pulls a rabbit ut of their arse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Exactly - 6 million QUALITY polies kind of blows my mind. The sheer time and effort it must take to create something quality out of that and to KEEP that standard of quality throughout.
I have a feeling all these new engines are gonna kill the customization scene - with such incredibly professionalism, little johnny making a marine replacement just isn't gonna cut it anymore.
I was thinking about this the other day - how just MAPPING is going to be incredibly harder with these brand new engines. Perhaps not harder - just more time consuming, one might say. Either way, unless the creation tools get incredibly much more powerful and easy-to-use, I fear that the custom scene will all but die out except for those relatively few people out there who are just so incredibly good anyways.
People always wonder and comment about how great the NS custom scene is; how great the CS custom scene is. It's the simplicity and low requirements that makes it so easy for people to get into it.
Maybe prefabs are gonna be the way of the future...either way, it's gonna be crazy unless someone pulls a rabbit ut of their arse <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, Doom 3 will be pretty scary to map for considering just what you would have to go through to make textures look good, creating super-high detail for EVERYTHING. I mean, it takes me a few good hours to make a considerably large not-very-detailed room look good, I can only image how hard its going to be when people expect every map to look up to par with professionally developed ones from id. Theres a big difference between somone creating a level who is in constant communication with the programmers and artists and somone who has to use whatever is out there.
Its going to be alot harder for sure, but there is an upside: Higher quality mods. You put the HL2 engine in the hands of folks like the NS team and the possibilities are wonderful. And of course there is Steam, which should allow mod teams to optionally charge for their mod... which has its merits, I would be willing to shell out some cash for NS2.
Stop being scared of the future! it's not going to change all that much. Sure, there's a ton of new gadgets and gizmos coming out, and there's a lot of things that <i>will</i> change, but the fundamentals will be the same. There will still be mods, there will still be user-created maps, there will still be custom models. There will still be downright horrible ones in all categories. There will still be great ones. The big thing I think we'll see is a polarization of quality of content. Right now there's a pretty even distribution of high to low quality in custom development. As it gets more complicated to make things look good, you'll see that middle area dissolve. The bad stuff will be even worse, but the good stuff... Good god. You need only look as far as UT2K3/4 maps and models to see where some of these people are capable of going. Remember when everyone was scared about -that- engine? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you let yourself get scared by the new tech, you may want to pursue a future outside of game development or content creation. Alternatively, you can look at what's laid out in front of you, rise to the challenge, and push yourself to and beyond your limits. That's what developers have to do to use this technology, and that's what mod developers will have to do as well.This is a chance to create something far beyond anything you've ever created before - I get a hell of a great feeling when I do something like that in a <i>Half-Life</i> map for crying out loud - I can't even begin to imagine what that will feel like when I get the hang of the software at Raven this summer.
A bunch of really big, really round toruses (spelling)...
Stop being scared of the future! it's not going to change all that much. Sure, there's a ton of new gadgets and gizmos coming out, and there's a lot of things that <i>will</i> change, but the fundamentals will be the same. There will still be mods, there will still be user-created maps, there will still be custom models. There will still be downright horrible ones in all categories. There will still be great ones. The big thing I think we'll see is a polarization of quality of content. Right now there's a pretty even distribution of high to low quality in custom development. As it gets more complicated to make things look good, you'll see that middle area dissolve. The bad stuff will be even worse, but the good stuff... Good god. You need only look as far as UT2K3/4 maps and models to see where some of these people are capable of going. Remember when everyone was scared about -that- engine? <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->
If you let yourself get scared by the new tech, you may want to pursue a future outside of game development or content creation. Alternatively, you can look at what's laid out in front of you, rise to the challenge, and push yourself to and beyond your limits. That's what developers have to do to use this technology, and that's what mod developers will have to do as well.This is a chance to create something far beyond anything you've ever created before - I get a hell of a great feeling when I do something like that in a <i>Half-Life</i> map for crying out loud - I can't even begin to imagine what that will feel like when I get the hang of the software at Raven this summer. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That..was...<i>beautiful</i>
*sniff*
imagine what pr0n0 machinimas would look like on such an engine...
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I like this guys way of thinking......
*sniff* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
At least someone read it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Where have you heard about Unreal Warfare and it being an MMOFPS. I’ve trawled lots of the internet and can’t find any mention of the game. I thought it was just the name of the ongoing Unreal engine
I've though about this problem and I think a good short term solution is generic art assets en masse. If an object could be defined in and of itself without being in a specific game environment(e.g. model, textures, sounds associated with breaking in various ways, shaders assoiciated with some textures/geometry of the model, physical properties associated with the model etc.) then you would only have to worry about the basic geometry of your map and the very specific things you want to put into it, the rest would be props.
For this system to work props would have to be free(except possibly credits) so that anyone who wants to use them can and anyone who wants to create them can as well. This would be an insanely huge project and I can't really see any other game as easily modable and with as huge a fan following as half-life 2-3 pulling it off. Eventually it would be nice with a common standard so that many different games and companies can use the very same art assets for generic stuff(books, soda cans, computers, phones, swings, telephone poles, telephone boths, benches and all sorts of imaginable random objects that would be a pain in the arse to make with as high quality as the rest of the game if a small company/a bunch of sparetime MOD makers worked on it alone).
That's... exactly how the Unreal engine works, and the direction many others are taking. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> It's that system that gives the Unreal engine its power and flexibility as well as the level of detail it is capable of churning out (instanced props render -far- faster than BSP geometry).
<!--QuoteBegin--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->For this system to work props would have to be free(except possibly credits) so that anyone who wants to use them can and anyone who wants to create them can as well. This would be an insanely huge project and I can't really see any other game as easily modable and with as huge a fan following as half-life 2-3 pulling it off. Eventually it would be nice with a common standard so that many different games and companies can use the very same art assets for generic stuff(books, soda cans, computers, phones, swings, telephone poles, telephone boths, benches and all sorts of imaginable random objects that would be a pain in the arse to make with as high quality as the rest of the game if a small company/a bunch of sparetime MOD makers worked on it alone).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
However, that wouldn't work. You cannot standardize things across teams. Each team and project will have its own art style and a base art set such as this would completely tear that apart. There's no way you could accomodate for every possible style. Also, different projects will have different technical guidelines. What is an acceptable prop in one project may be entirely unacceptable in another (for whatever reason).
Is it really so hard to learn new skills and methods of doing things? Games used to be just a few people and mods were as few as 1 person. Now games are made by much larger teams and take longer and mod teams have grown to match. That trend will continue. The way things work now will not always continue to be, and trying to work around progress within the industry to prevent change will be shooting yourself in the foot.
A bunch of really big, really round toruses (spelling)... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well some people would want to hive huge hi-poly donuts <!--emo&::nerdy::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/nerd.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='nerd.gif' /><!--endemo-->
It doesn't mean that little Johnny can't make a model replacement. It means that Johnny's Mom can settle down and make a pulse rifle that's highly detailed with sculptural aspects, rather than just boxy with textures (even good ones).
:P
For a long time it's mainly been hearsay but the vast majority of things point to it being MMO-based. Beyond that little is geniunely known though there's oodles of speculation people are willing to tell you if you just ask the right people XD
Epic haven't really gone out of their way to deny it's existance either... just a sort of bemused silence =P