In order to make this thread live as much as possible, i'll give my opinion.
Gameplay should be the first aspect of a map the mappers should think about when giving a form to their creation. The placements of the res nodes, the layout, the travelling time from Marine Start to hives and from hive to hive, etc is much more important than the rest. Of course, when designing the different rooms, you can tell yourself "lets make this one tall and dark, so it'll be a perfect ambush place for skulks" or this kind of stuff. But always keep in mind the gameplay.
Of course players don't want to play an awful ns_balanced_untextured_boxes, but they dont wanna play a ns_beautiful_but_aliens_always_win map either.
And PLEASE, make the difference between ns_bast and ns_mineshaft.
Bast really sux, because of plenty of bugs and unbalanced things. I still remember a game I played in 2.01 on bast, where the marines relocated in the engine hive (as far as i remember). The aliens had taken the advantage as the time passed by till the marines couldn't even exit of their base. Yeah, but that hive was so ****ty that even a two-hive Onos must crouch to enter into the hive, and dies 3 times before even reaching a marine. With LVL3 HMG'ed marines waiting for you, it was impossible for aliens to kill the marine base. On a well designed map, this wouldn't have happened. Do you know what mommy onoses tell to their children when they make silly things ? "Be quiet or i'll changelevel to ns_bast". Yeah, bast is really Onos' hell.
Mineshaft is an original map, with a pretty balanced (though not perfect) gameplay, and it's very fun to play in pcw's, because of its atmosphere that doesn't sacrifice gameplay. Let's take another example : who would dare to tell that ns_origin isn't beautiful ? Just look at the amazing atmosphere difference there's between furnace and biodome. And the gameplay is really good on this map. The two mappers that created these maps are geniuses, imho.
So if readers of the NS-Fr forums tell that ns_agora is unbalanced, it may be for a good reason. And keep in mind that playing a balanced map with balanced teams makes games last longer, and by the way, make players enjoy more playing on this map rather than another beautiful but unbalanced one.
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
If someone would steal my cookie jar I would be insulted <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/mad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
That_Annoying_KidSire of TitlesJoin Date: 2003-03-01Member: 14175Members, Constellation
<!--QuoteBegin-InZaneFleaArmy+Mar 30 2004, 09:00 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (InZaneFleaArmy @ Mar 30 2004, 09:00 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sick of people saying Bast sucked. Bast rocks. Period. It's tough... You can't win Bast without a bunch of teamwork. You may not notice it but it's true. I love Bast, and can't wait for it to be redone -.- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ^^
A good way to insult a mapper is to tell them there mapping is par with nexus 5's work ^_~
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
spamm filter on the word nexus anyone? <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-Yamazaki+Mar 30 2004, 12:17 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Yamazaki @ Mar 30 2004, 12:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Someone once insulted me by saying that I should go back to mapping for TFC, which is rather funny since I've never mapped for TFC, and it implies that TFC maps are patently inferior to NS maps, so it came off as mostly an insult to all TFC maps and mappers. What an idiot. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hey damnit TFC maps aren't always that simple! CTF is easy but how about making hunted or dustbowl style maps? It can be really quite challenging to get it right.
xzia_hunted.bsp is one of mine that was so large and complex I kept getting errors complaining abotu too much memory stuff. It's a shame because the map was frikin beautiful and I had made a new hunted system:
<span style='color:green'>hunted:</span> 1 green engy with permanent quad damage (yes the SG is quad damage too) XSF: max is always one fifth of the sum of total players on the blue and yellow; medic, sniper, soldier, pyro, demo, or HW; they have 60 seconds of quad damage yellow: normal soldier, sniper, or scout blue: normal soldier, sniper, or scout
The red spawn on a space ship and teleports down. The other blue and yellow guys are having a command point war and can get bonus points when they kill the hunted. The red guys are allied with the hunted and are there to help the hunted escape. The hunted can escape but can also but his SG if he need to defend himself. (yes the SG is quad damage which is crazy)
Everyone wants to play the red team or hunted becuase they own. I was also working on a way to weaponstrip the shotgun from the hunted.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lt.Gravity+Aug 30 2004, 10:18 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Lt.Gravity @ Aug 30 2004, 10:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-Chrono+Aug 29 2004, 05:02 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Chrono @ Aug 29 2004, 05:02 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-EEK+Aug 29 2004, 02:33 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (EEK @ Aug 29 2004, 02:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> If you want to insult them, threaten to send their .bsps to nz-nexus. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> dude stop bashing nexus hes gone forget about him <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> ... and if you want to bash anyone, maybe you should start with people that are slow as hell, even if they only have to convert a model *stares at chrono* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> DUDE! its not my fault autocad to 3dsmax conversions do not work well! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin-InZaneFleaArmy+Mar 30 2004, 05:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (InZaneFleaArmy @ Mar 30 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sick of people saying Bast sucked. Bast rocks. Period. It's tough... You can't win Bast without a bunch of teamwork. You may not notice it but it's true. I love Bast, and can't wait for it to be redone -.- <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen, Bast was one of the best levels I ever played in NS.
Rendy_CZechLife is a KoanJoin Date: 2003-10-11Member: 21608Members
<!--QuoteBegin-SamR+Sep 1 2004, 12:36 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (SamR @ Sep 1 2004, 12:36 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-InZaneFleaArmy+Mar 30 2004, 05:00 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (InZaneFleaArmy @ Mar 30 2004, 05:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sick of people saying Bast sucked. Bast rocks. Period. It's tough... You can't win Bast without a bunch of teamwork. You may not notice it but it's true. I love Bast, and can't wait for it to be redone -.- <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Amen, Bast was one of the best levels I ever played in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Hell yeah. Maps like Veil are only arenas. Bast is a spaceship ! I have great memories of games on ns_Bast in 2.0...
Comments
<img src='http://torment.wz.cz/OMG.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
Where are you getting these comparisons, stop or I'll die laughing....
Gameplay should be the first aspect of a map the mappers should think about when giving a form to their creation. The placements of the res nodes, the layout, the travelling time from Marine Start to hives and from hive to hive, etc is much more important than the rest. Of course, when designing the different rooms, you can tell yourself "lets make this one tall and dark, so it'll be a perfect ambush place for skulks" or this kind of stuff. But always keep in mind the gameplay.
Of course players don't want to play an awful ns_balanced_untextured_boxes, but they dont wanna play a ns_beautiful_but_aliens_always_win map either.
And PLEASE, make the difference between ns_bast and ns_mineshaft.
Bast really sux, because of plenty of bugs and unbalanced things.
I still remember a game I played in 2.01 on bast, where the marines relocated in the engine hive (as far as i remember). The aliens had taken the advantage as the time passed by till the marines couldn't even exit of their base. Yeah, but that hive was so ****ty that even a two-hive Onos must crouch to enter into the hive, and dies 3 times before even reaching a marine. With LVL3 HMG'ed marines waiting for you, it was impossible for aliens to kill the marine base. On a well designed map, this wouldn't have happened.
Do you know what mommy onoses tell to their children when they make silly things ? "Be quiet or i'll changelevel to ns_bast". Yeah, bast is really Onos' hell.
Mineshaft is an original map, with a pretty balanced (though not perfect) gameplay, and it's very fun to play in pcw's, because of its atmosphere that doesn't sacrifice gameplay. Let's take another example : who would dare to tell that ns_origin isn't beautiful ? Just look at the amazing atmosphere difference there's between furnace and biodome. And the gameplay is really good on this map. The two mappers that created these maps are geniuses, imho.
So if readers of the NS-Fr forums tell that ns_agora is unbalanced, it may be for a good reason. And keep in mind that playing a balanced map with balanced teams makes games last longer, and by the way, make players enjoy more playing on this map rather than another beautiful but unbalanced one.
^^
A good way to insult a mapper is to tell them there mapping is par with nexus 5's work ^_~
Hey damnit TFC maps aren't always that simple! CTF is easy but how about making hunted or dustbowl style maps? It can be really quite challenging to get it right.
xzia_hunted.bsp is one of mine that was so large and complex I kept getting errors complaining abotu too much memory stuff. It's a shame because the map was frikin beautiful and I had made a new hunted system:
<span style='color:green'>hunted:</span> 1 green engy with permanent quad damage (yes the SG is quad damage too)
XSF: max is always one fifth of the sum of total players on the blue and yellow; medic, sniper, soldier, pyro, demo, or HW; they have 60 seconds of quad damage
yellow: normal soldier, sniper, or scout
blue: normal soldier, sniper, or scout
The red spawn on a space ship and teleports down. The other blue and yellow guys are having a command point war and can get bonus points when they kill the hunted. The red guys are allied with the hunted and are there to help the hunted escape. The hunted can escape but can also but his SG if he need to defend himself. (yes the SG is quad damage which is crazy)
Everyone wants to play the red team or hunted becuase they own. I was also working on a way to weaponstrip the shotgun from the hunted.
dude stop bashing nexus hes gone forget about him <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
... and if you want to bash anyone, maybe you should start with people that are slow as hell, even if they only have to convert a model *stares at chrono* <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
DUDE! its not my fault autocad to 3dsmax conversions do not work well! <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/sad-fix.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad-fix.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Amen, Bast was one of the best levels I ever played in NS.
Amen, Bast was one of the best levels I ever played in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hell yeah. Maps like Veil are only arenas. Bast is a spaceship ! I have great memories of games on ns_Bast in 2.0...