how CAN i convince them that you can't get viruese sent to you while your gaming with people. they think while im playing with people, anyone in the server can give me a virus. i know this isn't really true....is it?
I had a hard enough time convincing my step-dad years back about the same thing. I just persisted and eventually he gave up. With these kinda things you just gotta be constant and push step by step. First you need to convince them this is safe, that's safe, etc. It's a slow learning process for your parents but you'll get them there eventually... just try not to lose your temper with them in the meantime ^~
i keep telling my parents we have a physical firewall built into the router! only my dad knows what a firewall is. and he still denies that it won't help! D:
Consider yourself lucky. I had to deal with the hurdle of convincing my parents you couldn't get virii while the PC was turned off. And this was in the days of dailup only internet connections and AT cases with a hard power on/off power switch the only means of toggling power. heh.
Odds are you're probably going about getting the point across wrong. Don't just whine that you should be able to or whatnot, find some factual info and print it out and give it to them. Assure them that you know what you're doing and then give them some info on how people catch virii and why. Also if you can find like a list of myths about virii that'd be good (especially if it mentions gaming or irc on it).
another thing is that my dad works for the cable company. he has this friend there that knows a lot about computers and such. he started this whole thing. my pop mentioned that i was a gamer and the guy just went off about how you can get viruses through them and what not. so now that **** has them permanately paranoid! D:
show them this thread. hide the part about SUYF noobs tho <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->.
lol, parents aren't stupid, they just don't know everything... in this case, PCs being the knowledge gap =3 Well, ok... some parents probably ARE stupid but it's doubtful their kids are any smarter, after all they're the ones who teach you stuff as you grow up (outside of school) and it's their genes you have to work with <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Still sounds like you're having the same problems as I did... luckily my parents trust me a lot usually so I was eventually able to charm them around to my ways. The vast majority of viruses need a kind of 'hook' to run. Basically, because viruses are still programs at the end of the day they need to be executed; that's why most of them are hidden in exes or files that need to be opened to set them off. With games you're not really running any excessive files that open you up to infection any more than anything else involving the internet and your parents at least seem happy to let you access it so they've already overcome the REAL virus fear hurdle ^^
You just need to educate them in the ways of the virus. I don't mean catching one lol ^^; If it helps, tell your dad (it's always the dad isn't it? XD ) to let you prove it. Play a very, very small match, with him watching (seriously small... 5-10 minutes. I know it's not much of a game but you're trying to prove a point) then let him run a complete virus scan. I didn't have to do that myself luckily, I just told my step-father I'd run the virus scan after each game and as time went by and he started to realise I knew what I was talking about, I just stopped doing the checks. There might be better ways but i'm just throwing ideas around. To be honest it's as much about their trust in you as anything else... be sure to make him realise that too. Nothing makes a good parent more guilty than their kids telling them they don't feel they trust them =3
Most viruses and trojans today are either attached executables in e-mails opened by ignorant users or things that exploit buffer overflows to run code on your computer.
If steam has buffers that can be overflowed then it might be possible to send a packet from the server to a client that overflows from where data is stored in memory to where code is stored and causes the machine to execute malicious code.
AFAIK clients do not send packets to eachother so it would have to come from the server itself.
Also it is much more likely that someone with malicious intent writes a virus or trojan for common software such as internet explorer or simply tries to use a vunerabillity in a windows service(e.g. blaster which used the the DCOM RPC vulnerability on unpathed windows machines).
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Mar 8 2004, 09:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Mar 8 2004, 09:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Consider yourself lucky. I had to deal with the hurdle of convincing my parents you couldn't get virii while the PC was turned off. And this was in the days of dailup only internet connections and AT cases with a hard power on/off power switch the only means of toggling power. heh.
Odds are you're probably going about getting the point across wrong. Don't just whine that you should be able to or whatnot, find some factual info and print it out and give it to them. Assure them that you know what you're doing and then give them some info on how people catch virii and why. Also if you can find like a list of myths about virii that'd be good (especially if it mentions gaming or irc on it). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> doom!
yah i agree. i don't understand anything your saying in that post liku <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Just a suggestion: Dont try and explain it to them
Yuo try and explain how everything works, but the entire meaning will go over their heads and they will focus on just the key stuff that they recognise... i.e "exploit", "malicious", "code", "hack"... sigh
so give them pacifiers [dummies]! tell them about how you have backups of all the systems [norton ghost] so if you need to, you can back up the system exactly as it was before! and you have so much protection, even the ubergods from 'Hackers' couldnt TOUCH your network, and so on and so forth
give them meaningful phrases they can remember and say, "oh, apparantly John Jr [2.0?] has set up a fence on the network" blah blah blah
also, when youre talking to them about it, take the tone as if you know everythings fine, and "well, theres so much unneccessary security like firewalls, routers and virus-scanners... whats the problem?" [hey, even though you know differently, give them a grain of misplaced mortar and they'll make it into a post-1989 Berlin wall]
and slap your dad, working in a hardware company and thinking things like that... how dare he! im pretty sure thats illegal
LikuI, am the Somberlain.Join Date: 2003-01-10Member: 12128Members
<!--QuoteBegin-Geminosity+Mar 8 2004, 02:40 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geminosity @ Mar 8 2004, 02:40 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> liku... that post made like all of no sense =s <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Typing at night's the worst, fixed the post.
"if not they don't, they shouldn't worry"? I get what you mean, it just looks funny because you thought 2 things and put them both down instead of picking one =3
"if not they don't, they shouldn't worry"? I get what you mean, it just looks funny because you thought 2 things and put them both down instead of picking one =3 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh god... I'm just laughing my **** off now. Gem, you have permission to kill me. Do these forums a favor, end it. Geh, back to Myth Busters.
<!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Mar 8 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Mar 8 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> AT cases with a hard power on/off power switch the only means of toggling power. heh. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Now they were best. None of this push the button once and it'll shut down or the Lets hold the button in an age for the PC to turn off.
Those buttons were much better. Only problem was hitting it with your toe by accident. Then they sucked but doing that is still a pain anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
thanks for the replies guys. i'm gonna try the stuff you all have suggested. hopefully my parents aren't ignorant enough to not even hear me out. i don't think so though.
<!--QuoteBegin-Venmoch+Mar 8 2004, 06:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Mar 8 2004, 06:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Those buttons were much better. Only problem was hitting it with your toe by accident. Then they sucked but doing that is still a pain anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yeah, but now you have five seconds or so of horror as you scream at the "Shutting Down..." dialog box. "NOOO! WAIT! IT WAS A MISTAKE! STOP SHUTTING DOWN! NOOOO!!"
Get the necesarry software and show them it's safe <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Luckily my mom is computer literate enough (and gullible) enough to not cause me any problems like this. And my dad is so computer illiterate that well, he dosen't even try to make sense of anything.
But one memory that this thread brought back was when I was at my friends house, and we were done playing online with the computer. So he shut it off and UNPLUGGED the telephone cable from the back of the computer. I laughed so hard I couldn't breath. His entire family was convinced that you could get viruses as long as the phone cord is plugged into the computer... Whether you were connected to the internet, or even if the computer was on or off... Heh.
I remember having to convince my parents of the same thing. but this was 10 years ago when I was logging into BBS's w/ Ripterm in DOS. My dad was a little harder to convince because he was computer literate (he'd been programming since punchcards). Do you have an anti-virus program? If your parents are so paranoid, you should be able to convince them to buy one if you don't already have one. And like what has said before, use a firewall (like ZoneAlarm) and show them it's protecting the computer.
<!--QuoteBegin-Venmoch+Mar 8 2004, 11:21 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Venmoch @ Mar 8 2004, 11:21 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-DOOManiac+Mar 8 2004, 08:54 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (DOOManiac @ Mar 8 2004, 08:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> AT cases with a hard power on/off power switch the only means of toggling power. heh. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Now they were best. None of this push the button once and it'll shut down or the Lets hold the button in an age for the PC to turn off.
Those buttons were much better. Only problem was hitting it with your toe by accident. Then they sucked but doing that is still a pain anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> stop forgetting the turbo! or boost! it goes woosh!
A while ago on british tv i think it was ch4 was a program about internet hackers and how big softwear companies employ these hackers to test out their new OS etc like mircosoft. The presenters of the programe interviewed a hacker from a group of well known hackers ( the group had a name with "dead" and "cows" in it but i cant remeber what they were called) The presenter asked the hacker a series of question of what he could do to a computer and how he could hack into a computer. The most alarming thing i herd this hacker say was once he is inside you computer (probs cuz the user was sooo dumb to not install firewalls etc) he cud turn on Web cams etc WHEN THE COMPUTER WAS TURNED OFF BY THE MAINS!!!! This is not a joke i herd this guy say this. Thats why i switch my router off play the mains swicth every night, also to get a new IP when i do switch it back on <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Ever see one of those anti-virus program demos? I downloaded this program that when you ran it, it would show your recycle bin with many important files (autoexec.cfg, system.dll, system32.dll, etc.) with a window that read "Are you sure you want to delete these files?" Well when you tried to put your mouse over the no, it would push it off making it impossible to click no. Then in about several seconds, it would suddenly act as if you had clicked yes, having all those files being deleted from your hard drive with which case the screen goes blue.
A second later, it says.. "What if this really were a virus? Get your virus protection software from us today." Greatest program EVER! I used to plant that on my roommate's computer all the time and it scared the crap out of him everytime.
You should do that on your parents PC. It will either give them a heart attack or keep them off the PC for the rest of their lives (with which then you could not have to worry about them bothering you about it ever again).
they pinched that from the game 'virus'. It used that as an ad originally I think... or it could be the other way around. It was a common practical joke at our university all the same ^^
Comments
I had a hard enough time convincing my step-dad years back about the same thing. I just persisted and eventually he gave up. With these kinda things you just gotta be constant and push step by step. First you need to convince them this is safe, that's safe, etc.
It's a slow learning process for your parents but you'll get them there eventually... just try not to lose your temper with them in the meantime ^~
Trust me, I have 19 years of experience.
just put up a firewall and make a fake attack then go "look mum n dad, it didnt work, computers safe. SUYF NOOBS"
then kick them out
Odds are you're probably going about getting the point across wrong. Don't just whine that you should be able to or whatnot, find some factual info and print it out and give it to them. Assure them that you know what you're doing and then give them some info on how people catch virii and why. Also if you can find like a list of myths about virii that'd be good (especially if it mentions gaming or irc on it).
Well, ok... some parents probably ARE stupid but it's doubtful their kids are any smarter, after all they're the ones who teach you stuff as you grow up (outside of school) and it's their genes you have to work with <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Still sounds like you're having the same problems as I did... luckily my parents trust me a lot usually so I was eventually able to charm them around to my ways.
The vast majority of viruses need a kind of 'hook' to run. Basically, because viruses are still programs at the end of the day they need to be executed; that's why most of them are hidden in exes or files that need to be opened to set them off. With games you're not really running any excessive files that open you up to infection any more than anything else involving the internet and your parents at least seem happy to let you access it so they've already overcome the REAL virus fear hurdle ^^
You just need to educate them in the ways of the virus. I don't mean catching one lol ^^;
If it helps, tell your dad (it's always the dad isn't it? XD ) to let you prove it. Play a very, very small match, with him watching (seriously small... 5-10 minutes. I know it's not much of a game but you're trying to prove a point) then let him run a complete virus scan. I didn't have to do that myself luckily, I just told my step-father I'd run the virus scan after each game and as time went by and he started to realise I knew what I was talking about, I just stopped doing the checks.
There might be better ways but i'm just throwing ideas around. To be honest it's as much about their trust in you as anything else... be sure to make him realise that too. Nothing makes a good parent more guilty than their kids telling them they don't feel they trust them =3
If steam has buffers that can be overflowed then it might be possible to send a packet from the server to a client that overflows from where data is stored in memory to where code is stored and causes the machine to execute malicious code.
AFAIK clients do not send packets to eachother so it would have to come from the server itself.
Also it is much more likely that someone with malicious intent writes a virus or trojan for common software such as internet explorer or simply tries to use a vunerabillity in a windows service(e.g. blaster which used the the DCOM RPC vulnerability on unpathed windows machines).
Odds are you're probably going about getting the point across wrong. Don't just whine that you should be able to or whatnot, find some factual info and print it out and give it to them. Assure them that you know what you're doing and then give them some info on how people catch virii and why. Also if you can find like a list of myths about virii that'd be good (especially if it mentions gaming or irc on it). <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
doom!
just hit the turbo button! and it goes wooosh!
Yuo try and explain how everything works, but the entire meaning will go over their heads and they will focus on just the key stuff that they recognise... i.e "exploit", "malicious", "code", "hack"... sigh
so give them pacifiers [dummies]! tell them about how you have backups of all the systems [norton ghost] so if you need to, you can back up the system exactly as it was before! and you have so much protection, even the ubergods from 'Hackers' couldnt TOUCH your network, and so on and so forth
give them meaningful phrases they can remember and say, "oh, apparantly John Jr [2.0?] has set up a fence on the network" blah blah blah
also, when youre talking to them about it, take the tone as if you know everythings fine, and "well, theres so much unneccessary security like firewalls, routers and virus-scanners... whats the problem?" [hey, even though you know differently, give them a grain of misplaced mortar and they'll make it into a post-1989 Berlin wall]
and slap your dad, working in a hardware company and thinking things like that... how dare he! im pretty sure thats illegal
Typing at night's the worst, fixed the post.
"if not they don't, they shouldn't worry"?
I get what you mean, it just looks funny because you thought 2 things and put them both down instead of picking one =3
"if not they don't, they shouldn't worry"?
I get what you mean, it just looks funny because you thought 2 things and put them both down instead of picking one =3 <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh god... I'm just laughing my **** off now. Gem, you have permission to kill me. Do these forums a favor, end it. Geh, back to Myth Busters.
Now they were best. None of this push the button once and it'll shut down or the Lets hold the button in an age for the PC to turn off.
Those buttons were much better. Only problem was hitting it with your toe by accident. Then they sucked but doing that is still a pain anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo-->
Yeah, but now you have five seconds or so of horror as you scream at the "Shutting Down..." dialog box. "NOOO! WAIT! IT WAS A MISTAKE! STOP SHUTTING DOWN! NOOOO!!"
But one memory that this thread brought back was when I was at my friends house, and we were done playing online with the computer. So he shut it off and UNPLUGGED the telephone cable from the back of the computer. I laughed so hard I couldn't breath. His entire family was convinced that you could get viruses as long as the phone cord is plugged into the computer... Whether you were connected to the internet, or even if the computer was on or off... Heh.
Do you have an anti-virus program? If your parents are so paranoid, you should be able to convince them to buy one if you don't already have one. And like what has said before, use a firewall (like ZoneAlarm) and show them it's protecting the computer.
Now they were best. None of this push the button once and it'll shut down or the Lets hold the button in an age for the PC to turn off.
Those buttons were much better. Only problem was hitting it with your toe by accident. Then they sucked but doing that is still a pain anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html//emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif' /><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><div class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
stop forgetting the turbo! or boost! it goes woosh!
A second later, it says.. "What if this really were a virus? Get your virus protection software from us today." Greatest program EVER! I used to plant that on my roommate's computer all the time and it scared the crap out of him everytime.
You should do that on your parents PC. It will either give them a heart attack or keep them off the PC for the rest of their lives (with which then you could not have to worry about them bothering you about it ever again).
Boot up Windowze and go woosh! What did those buttons actually do, anyway? I mean, on the technical side?