Bast Remake Project

MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate placesValencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
edited April 2004 in Mapping Forum
Welcome to the Bast Remake thread! Hope you like what we are doing!

QUOTE (Frequently Asked Questions - Bast Remake Project)
Why don't you get the original from the author?
The original .RMF file was lost after a hard-drive failure. This file is needed in order to make changes and compile the map.

But I still have the .bsp right here! Can't you guys use that?
Of course not, that is not the source map, the process of compiling a map kinda destroys any possibilities of getting it back like the original, since the compiler culls the faces that are outside, and cuts faces, calculates lighting, etc.

We can't use the .bsp to modify it. Plain and simple, a complete remake is needed in order to be able to update the map.

Hey, I've got a decompile! / Can I help in any way? / I'm a leet mapper, can I join?
We also got a decompile, and works, we don't need another one.

We don't need any help right now, the only way you can help right now is giving us suggestions posting in this thread. Our main focus right now is to get the closest copy of bast and then, with that, doing the appropiate changes, some of them are done while we remake the map, due to their simplicity.

Also, if you're thinking in helping with your mapping skills, we are sorry, but the team is full.

The members of the team are:
Mendasp (Leader)
MrBen
quazilin
Drunken Monkey
Insane
Marcos

The original author was Relic25.

The assignments are:
Mendasp: Marine Spawn (including the revolving door), ReadyRoom, corridor between MS and Atmos / Furnace and the vent, corridor between main aft and engine and its vents, Tram tunnel and its surrounding corridors (including the main aft elevator), N corridor and the vents that lead to atmos and MS elevator - Finished!
MrBen: New infestation - Finished!
quazilin: Refinery, Furnace, Feedwater, Bridge observation - Finished!
Zazi: Water corridor outside of ref - Given to quazilin
Drunken Monkey: Engine and Main Aft - Finished!
Insane: EM Drill shaft - Finished!
bLuEMaN: Tram tunnel - Given to Mendasp
Marcos: Atmospheric processing - Finished!

What does Relic think about this?
We emailed him, and got a reply. We have his support smile.gif He likes what we have already done, but due to having no time, he can't help us too much right now.

Are you giving the remake source to Relic? / Is he going to help you?
Sadly, Relic doesn't have time for NS or mapping anymore, so he had to leave the community. He can't help us too much, and he can't continue the maintenance of Bast.

Will you make balance changes to the map?
Yes. Bast needs some serious balance changes, we would be happy to hear what the pub players and clanners think bast needs to be more fun on both playing styles. We will take ALL the suggestions into account.

Are you making aesthetic changes on the map?
The main focus right now is in getting the whole architecture redone. We are doing subtle changes to the lighting, but we don't want to break the excellent ambience Bast has always had. So no big changes for now if they are not needed.

The changes in the lighting are for two reasons:

1.- It's almost impossible to get the lighting exactly as the original (because the only lighting recovered is the point-lighting, and tweaking a .rad file until you get the exact values can be very very hard and time consuming, considering how long the compile times take)
2.- It helps to make the map look more fresh, we don't want to take over the map or something, we like bast as much as most people do!

Why was the map removed?
The source was lost and the entity limit is right now 275. The current Bast has 500+ entities.

The entities are handled server-side, so basically, and without technicisms: It lagged a bit some not-so-powerful servers.

Because of this, some things will be gone, like, for example the breakable lights in the MS (4 entities less...). But don't worry, we'll try to optimize it without having to take out cool features in the map.

You guys are very fast!, do you think you'll be on time to get it in 3.0?
Yes, it's going to be included in NS 3.0 beta 4, we will keep improving the map with the feedback the players give us, or our own ideas (but it's more important to have everyone happy first)


I'll leave the first pic I posted here so you can compare with the next ones. It's the first version of the MS.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • civman2civman2 Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 6116Members, Constellation Posts: 517
    hawt biggrin.gif
    IPB ImageIPB Image civman2

    1.04 lerk for president
  • JezpuhJezpuh Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15157Banned Posts: 4,109
    Correct me if I'm wrong. But you said you have working decompile of bast? Wouldn't that mean you just have to realign some textures, fix borked faces and make or ask if Relic still has a light.rad?
    DANGER ALERT SYSTEMS
    mp_bs 0 ;D
  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation Posts: 4,412
    looks like Bast to me biggrin.gif

    This is the second Bast remake thread I've seen, but, hey what the hell!

    Are we allowed to offer suggestions?

    on IRC in #nspt we were just talking about being able to drain the water out the tunnel between Refinery and Feedwater for a nice tactical siege location biggrin.gif
  • JezpuhJezpuh Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15157Banned Posts: 4,109
    Oh wait, nevermind. Decompiled maps are too big to save and work with... sorry tounge.gif
    DANGER ALERT SYSTEMS
    mp_bs 0 ;D
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    No, the decompile is just a mess, it creates a 1-unit brush for each face, so we have to do all the brushwork again anyways... it's just a good base for scale, the textures in the decompile are exactly as the original, so that helps too.

    It isn't as hard as having to figure everything from screenshots, but it isn't as easy, either.
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi! Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation Posts: 6,132
    Nice to see the project coming along Mendasp. I'd like to point out people including Flayra, Devs and us forum groupies will make suggestions smile.gif That draining water thing is a pretty cool idea, I was also thinking about that floor vent in-between Feedwater and Atmos, it's troubling, as you have jump over it or duck. Not friendly with 4 or 5 people going that way.
    blah blah blah
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members Posts: 1,258
    ill have time to work in this project by 24th January, so thats in a week.

    yay
    Creator of co_ulysses, ns_nirvana, ns_mystic and co_angel
    http://jordicarazo.wordpress.com/
  • MrBenMrBen ns_eclipse, ns_veil caretaker Join Date: 2002-11-14 Member: 8575Members Posts: 1,119
    My bday then biggrin.gif
    nL-Benjamin - Periodic map contributor, forum troll, retired arrogant clanner and commanding guru.

    IPB ImageIPB ImageIPB Image
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation Posts: 872
    edited January 2004
    Question: In the other bast remake thread, it was stated that no attempts to change anything would be made. However, it has been stated in other threads that one universal change made from all 1.0x maps to 2.0x maps was that comchairs in little rooms that you have to take an elevator to need to be taken out. Will you at least be making this modification?

    Additionally, most people's complaints about bast revolve around the fact that bast's marine start is the absolute worst tactical place for a marine start to be. Will you be considering fixing that problem any? Or will you faithfully recreate bast and then go back and fix it afterwards?

    Considering any modifications to refinery? I have some ideas... one of those cyllindrical vats could be hollowed out and the hive could be placed inside... this would also allow for some more infestation (which refinery always lacked).

    Thought about upping any of the visuals at all? Heard mention of the possibility of adding waterfalls comming out of the broken pipes in feedwater, for example...
    float o=0.075,h=1.5,T,r,O,l,I;int _,L=80,s=3200;main(){for(;s%L||
    (h-=o,T= -2),s;4 -(r=O*O)<(l=I*I)|++_==L&&write(1,(--s%L?_<L?--_
    %6:6:7)+"123456 \n",1)&&(O=I=l=_=r=0,T+=o/2))O=I*2*O+h,I=l+T-r;}
    user posted image
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    We plan to do fixes on the map.

    But right now, it's just recreating it, then comes the fixing and testing. We would get crazy if we started making changes while we recreate it...
  • FieariFieari Join Date: 2002-10-22 Member: 1566Members, Constellation Posts: 872
    Very true. Carry on then! Salute!
    float o=0.075,h=1.5,T,r,O,l,I;int _,L=80,s=3200;main(){for(;s%L||
    (h-=o,T= -2),s;4 -(r=O*O)<(l=I*I)|++_==L&&write(1,(--s%L?_<L?--_
    %6:6:7)+"123456 \n",1)&&(O=I=l=_=r=0,T+=o/2))O=I*2*O+h,I=l+T-r;}
    user posted image
  • BogglesteinskyBogglesteinsky Join Date: 2002-12-24 Member: 11488Members Posts: 4,078
    Dont forget that you could shoot the lights in MS to turn them off...
    user posted image
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members Posts: 3,925
    Bast remake. Awesome. Can't wait to see an improved version of bast.
    image
    QUOTE(CMEast @ Jun 4 2005, 10:54 AM)
    ... accusations are so... accusing.
  • coilcoil Amateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance. Join Date: 2002-04-12 Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor Posts: 7,511
    Thought for the CC: replace the elevator with a ramp, and put the CC at the rear of the "cockpit" (where the elevator currently is).
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 2,589 Advanced user
    awsome!
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • TechwidTechwid Join Date: 2002-11-13 Member: 8440Members, Constellation Posts: 178
    edited January 2004
    Someone commented in nancy remake that bast hadn't been changed from 2.0, which was incorrect. Are you guys going to be remaking it based on the original 1.04 map, or off the changes that happened in 2.0?

    The things that changed were:
    -The weldable in MS
    --It used to be outside, so it actually took effort, and once it was closed it was closed
    -The ladders in MS
    --They used to be facing different, this change was probably for the best
    -The doors in the vents from MS that lead to engine or feed
    --Used to be two seperate weldables

    I Think that the original weldable is the only thing that needs to go back in (or the current one needs to be reworked so the gap isn't there and it can't be broken).

    Anyways, was just curious what the bast teams position is on this tounge.gif
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    We are working with the 2.0 Bast as base, and well, the MS vent really needs some fixing...
  • kawakkawak Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12160Members, Constellation Posts: 90
    Wow.. a remake of bast..
    I didn't think that was possible as it's an incredible and awesome map.

    Good luck guys! smile.gif
  • CabooseCaboose title = name(self, handle) Join Date: 2003-02-15 Member: 13597Members, Constellation Posts: 4,708 Advanced user
    I have a BSPTwoMAP decompile of bast and was working on the RR for practice in Radiant mapping, I didn't save it, but If you want, I could re-make the RR.
  • MilitaryPoliceMilitaryPolice Join Date: 2003-10-12 Member: 21623Members Posts: 418
    QUOTE (coil @ Jan 17 2004, 02:12 PM)
    Thought for the CC: replace the elevator with a ramp, and put the CC at the rear of the "cockpit" (where the elevator currently is).

    I agree replacing the elevator with a ramp, BUT i think it would look weird to have the cockpit buttons on one side with the ramp in the middle, and the CC aggainst the wall

    But thats just my opinion.

    And i hope that welding spot gets fixed confused.gif
    user posted image
  • KungFuDiscoMonkeyKungFuDiscoMonkey Creator of ns_altair 日本福岡県 Join Date: 2003-03-15 Member: 14555Members, NS1 Playtester, Reinforced - Onos Posts: 2,589 Advanced user
    Just replace the elevator with a ladder. I like the way the CC room in bast looks how it is but the elevator was annoying.
    毎日勉強したら上手になるよ
  • ThaldarinThaldarin Alonzi&#33; Join Date: 2003-07-15 Member: 18173Members, Constellation Posts: 6,132
    QUOTE (Mendasp @ Jan 17 2004, 03:33 PM)
    We are working with the 2.0 Bast as base, and well, the MS vent really needs some fixing...

    A slight suggestion about that vent, there is a 'dead end' vent in engine, on the left hand side, put a vent from there to the wall which is furthest away from the CC, make it weldable too.
    blah blah blah
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    edited January 2004
    Yeah, a ladder is probably the best solution, although the Onos will have a hard time getting up there, we'll see what we'll finally do!

    Anyways, we're going to do some lighting changes to make the map look more "fresh". You know, all the maps got revamped for 2.0... bast needs something new. We'll be sure to not break the ambience. We'll also be posting pics to let you guys give your oppinions ^^. The general lighting will be the same, just slight changes.

    Edit: Decompile decompiles entities too wink.gif
  • HyperionHyperion Hyperion2010 Join Date: 2003-10-06 Member: 21477Members Posts: 310
    im sure one of the many excillent mappers on this team has already figured out to use quark to check all the entity settings- or maybe im and idiot who doesnt realize that the decompile decompiles entities too.............
    On the rest of the internet I am know as: Hyperion2010
    Red Orchestra Tester
    NS mapping: my one true home
  • brute_forcebrute_force Join Date: 2003-10-04 Member: 21433Members, Constellation Posts: 1,616
    Uh, just wondering if you could make the lights in MS *not* breakable? It just gets too dark, and not very marine friendly.

    Just a suggestion though. Bast is one of my favorite maps. Good luck with the remake. smile.gif
  • MendaspMendasp I touch maps in inappropriate places Valencia, Spain Join Date: 2002-07-05 Member: 884Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Retired Community Developer Posts: 4,177 Advanced user
    edited January 2004
    QUOTE (ShdwStal @ Jan 17 2004, 11:37 PM)
    Uh, just wondering if you could make the lights in MS *not* breakable? It just gets too dark, and not very marine friendly.

    Just a suggestion though. Bast is one of my favorite maps. Good luck with the remake. smile.gif

    I actually like this one, just because I've been playing with the lights in MS and I was going crazy because it was very dark with them off.

    And makes sense, since:

    a) We save some entities
    b) Makes the MS more marine-friendly and avoids it looking ultra-dark.

    If noone has a problem with that... I'll just make them not-breakable.
  • im_lostim_lost TWG Rule Guru Join Date: 2003-04-26 Member: 15861Members Posts: 3,925
    I really don't like the setup of the CC in marine start. If a skulk gets back there and starts chomping, it is difficult to get them out. They will get the first hit on you when you go up an elevator (or ladder), and you don't know which side they will hit you from. That just isn't very marine-friendly.
    image
    QUOTE(CMEast @ Jun 4 2005, 10:54 AM)
    ... accusations are so... accusing.
  • DarkATiDarkATi Revelation 22:17 Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17532Members, Reinforced - Shadow Posts: 2,545 Fully active user
    QUOTE (i'm lost @ Jan 17 2004, 05:03 PM)
    I really don't like the setup of the CC in marine start. If a skulk gets back there and starts chomping, it is difficult to get them out. They will get the first hit on you when you go up an elevator (or ladder), and you don't know which side they will hit you from. That just isn't very marine-friendly.

    Bast veterans know about the benefits of CC Mines... biggrin.gif I think a ladder is a great idea, the elevator wasn't all that great.

    ~ DarkATi
  • FiredragonFiredragon Join Date: 2003-07-16 Member: 18207Members, Constellation Posts: 180
    edited January 2004
    wow.gif tounge.gif smile.gif biggrin.gif pudgy.gif

    OMG,a bast remake yay hehe go "Viva La Bast" lmao


    Oh please for the love of god stick and keep "N Corridor" in the map hehe ONE of my favorite relocation spots and to just hideout when Oni and fades are attacking main base.


    You may or may not believe this but the huge pit in the one part of the map I forget the roomname is also one of my favorite places to hide.There is a light "under" the walkway you can get to with a jetpack and land on the light and hide if you do it right.

    One of the things I have been doing is trying to "master" getting onto that little light in the big pit under the walkway/catwalk.


    "I do HAVE a bast where the CC is on the platform that comes out of the ceiling,and also the "revolving door" you have to weld it and it disappears.I think someone used ripent on it to do the relocation of the CC.
  • ReeseReese Join Date: 2003-05-08 Member: 16143Members Posts: 701
    does anyone have ideas for engine room? It always frustrated me that a good turret farm on the stairs could keep onos (and to a lesser degree fades) contained. It didn't really show up until 2.0 with the unlocking of races and hives, but when it did it was a real pain. Ideas? I was thinking possibly a tight corridor between the area just outside engine and the cockpit that's on the other side of tram tunnel.
    Needs more cowbell
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