<!--QuoteBegin--CommunistWithAGun+Jan 14 2004, 11:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 14 2004, 11:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--esuna+Jan 14 2004, 08:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Jan 14 2004, 08:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> No, Metacheat was closed by Joolz, the main guy behind metacheat and Joolzcheat, if i remember correctly.
He posted some kind of public statement that he was stopping production of JC / MC for some reason or another. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I believe he said he will still code them part time because valve won't respond to his emails. He claims if they put him on part time as an anti-cheat guy he'd stop most the cheats. (as most are his) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That sound like simple blackmailing to me. And if I was Valve, I'd reply alright....with a mail, saying "Go to hell, you ****"
personally i don't mind cheaters.. i mean come on when u think about it all it does is help them a lil autoaim for example all it does is aim for u it doesn't kill them...for me hackers r just like very good clan members and if u ever look forward to be the very best u should at least stop crying and kill them.... it's not that hard... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> ( i don't hack either so back off) <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--The Twisted One+Jan 14 2004, 04:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The Twisted One @ Jan 14 2004, 04:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> personally i don't mind cheaters.. i mean come on when u think about it all it does is help them a lil autoaim for example all it does is aim for u it doesn't kill them...for me hackers r just like very good clan members and if u ever look forward to be the very best u should at least stop crying and kill them.... it's not that hard... <!--emo&:0--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wow.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wow.gif'><!--endemo--> ( i don't hack either so back off) <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Stand up when you speak, you sound all muffled.
i very well imagine Valve dont really give two hoots about cheaters, if anything they like them!
ok lets say little 13yr old jimmy cheater, downloads a cheat 3 weeks later the anticheat software catches him he is now banned.
next week he goes out buys a new copy of half life for a Fiver and starts again!
get ten thousand 13yr old jimmy cheaters what does valve get? $$$$$$
come to terms with the fact that Valve and EA(bf1942) know about cheats they could stop them if they really could be bothered by why bother if it makes them more money. the mere fact that people can cheat in these games will make more people play them.
how long have cheats been around for Counter Strike now? years right? wel do you see the number of people playing Counter Strike falling in the last few years?
i very well imagine Valve dont really give two hoots about cheaters, if anything they like them!
ok lets say little 13yr old jimmy cheater, downloads a cheat 3 weeks later the anticheat software catches him he is now banned.
next week he goes out buys a new copy of half life for a Fiver and starts again!
get ten thousand 13yr old jimmy cheaters what does valve get? $$$$$$
come to terms with the fact that Valve and EA(bf1942) know about cheats they could stop them if they really could be bothered by why bother if it makes them more money. the mere fact that people can cheat in these games will make more people play them.
how long have cheats been around for Counter Strike now? years right? wel do you see the number of people playing Counter Strike falling in the last few years? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> There are not many people who'd go buy a second copy just to be able to play online again. And I suppose only a real persistent idiot would go so far and buy a third copy or beyond. So no, Valve doesn't make that much money by banning cheaters.
<!--QuoteBegin--grim32+Jan 14 2004, 08:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (grim32 @ Jan 14 2004, 08:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> guys i was wondering did u guys in the ns team shut down metacheat and unknowncheats when i sent that email because i checked the other day and i think its shut down i talked to a ex hacker emailed the main person and he said that someone shut it down was it you guys and sorry for any .,;;' ETC THAT ARE MISSING ITS WHERE IM ABOUT TO GET MY DINNER SO LATERZ <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I got one word for you:
<!--QuoteBegin--Epidemic+Jan 14 2004, 05:24 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Epidemic @ Jan 14 2004, 05:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> And Jezpuz, I've always known you had the cheater mentality. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What do you mean with that?
<!--QuoteBegin--esuna+Jan 15 2004, 12:26 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (esuna @ Jan 15 2004, 12:26 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Ok, please enlighten me how cheating in games is the same as killing people?
I mean, call me stupid, but i don't see how playing a video game, and murder are the same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Its a parallel. A metaphor. Please, when reading parallels/metaphors, dont assume that the author is trying to equalise the crime in the metaphor with the crime IRL - I'm just putting the exact same situation in a different format. The fact that that man would be tried in a court of law is showing that while he may put in the hard effort, constantly updating his bullets and distributing them for free, but never actually pulling the trigger, he would be seen as almost as guilty as those who did. Same applies to filth like Joolz. He creates and distributes the hacks, without actually using them himself - but he's still just as guilty.
Joolz manufacters misery for thousands of gamers. The fact that Valve ignored his email means squat - he's doing the wrong thing, not valve. And now that unspeakable **** has the gall to expect someone to give him a job. Thats a really bad message to be giving out - create cheats, publish them, and if you are really really really good, you might land yourself a job. They should offer him a job, and then when he shows up for the interview, break all his fingers.
As I said previously esuna, you are always making comments in off-topic about how "people suck/humanity sucks" etc - yet you applaud/respect the effort put in by one man to create misery for thousands. Am I the only one that finds that flat out contradictory?
Maybe you'd all like to look at this line VERY carefully
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steampowered.co.uk: Do you have anything you would like to announce to the gaming community? Joolz: No real announcements, just a word of advice. Valve screwed up the HL engine, not the cheats. They made it with holes and haven't patched them. Like MS... imagine if they didn't patch Blaster?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now if you look very carefully, you'll see that the HL engine has (sadly) a LOT of holes that need patching. Generally half of these can be patched by mod-makers, but others have to be fixed by Valve....sadly, those that holes Valve needs to patch tend to be in the core engine's functions
How I know? I use my eyes a lot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW, there was no line where he sadi that he'd stop making cheats if he were hired by Valve, because he generally coded it out of interest. It generally comes out of these 2 quotes
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steampowered.co.uk: (Decent) how did you get the idea to do the metacheat, and how did you get in side the code, so to speak? Joolz: Hmmm... MetaCheat started as a concept. I was pondering if it was possible to push .NET Framework to do such a thing. In fact, Microsoft say that this isn't technically possible But, MC proves it is, It all started there... As for getting inside the code,If you mean Half-Life there is a Half-Life SDK available from Valve which details ALL the structures that they use in memory they say a lot of things like that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steampowered.co.uk: WSR^Robinb asks : Has creating Metacheat been a challange for you, or was it a piece of cake? Joolz: a HUGE challenge. I've had people from Microsoft Developer Support in Reading asking how its done! They didn't think .NET could do it but i've proved it can. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From then on, it became a well...cheat <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
First off, cheaters suck @ss. Worse, many never outgrow the habit of winning through cheating. If they have to play 'straight', like everyone else, they quit or find a game they CAN cheat on. And I agree, folks who make it easy for others to cheat aren't much better than (comparatively speaking) gunrunners and such.
But, like anything else people really want to do (apparently), making it illegal would be kinda pointless. It'd simply go underground and, (like real-world vice) get even more popular/'profitable'. Anything running counter to human nature will, sooner or later, fail or be abandoned in a sudden burst of common sense.
The best 'policing' to be done is in forums like this, and with alert players/admins/servers/whatever in the 'real' gaming world keeping it in check as best they can. So keep griping, keep flaming, keep hammering at 'em. There will always be cheaters... but we don't necessarily HAVE to play with them... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
devicenullJoin Date: 2003-04-30Member: 15967Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
FFS! GET THE NAME RIGHT! HACKING IMPLIES SKILL!
Okay, now that I'm done with that.. Valve should hand all the anti-cheat stuff over to the UA people.. CD is much more effective then VAC, now imagine if every server ran CD, very very few cheats would work. [OPINION] I see nothing wrong with writing your own cheat, because then atleast, you understand the game, and what you are doing. What I have a problem with is the download-a-skill people, who usually are annoying anyway[/OPINION] How can cheating make the game fun for anyone? For you, there is no skill involved, and you pretty much sit there and walk around? For everyone else, they dont stand a chance
<!--QuoteBegin--grim32+Jan 14 2004, 08:18 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (grim32 @ Jan 14 2004, 08:18 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->guys i was wondering did u guys in the ns team shut down metacheat and unknowncheats when i sent that email because i checked the other day and i think its shut down i talked to a ex hacker emailed the main person and he said that someone shut it down was it you guys and sorry for any .,;;' ETC THAT ARE MISSING ITS WHERE IM ABOUT TO GET MY DINNER SO LATERZ <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I think that this post further proves my theory that the school systems are failing. He's obviously never learned to type, nor has he learned to use the English language effectively. I had trouble reading it, to say the least. People who post like that need a ban until they can pass a typing test or something.
Onto the topic of cheating, and the people who make cheats...
While, I think that people who cheat and exploit are disgusting and have no skill, the people who make the cheats are ok. Making cheats is a great way to hone your skills as a programmer. Hmm...
im not knocking the coders of hacks or anything but.. if they spent their time creating a decent anti cheat.. then wouldent that be more productive and would get alot of support and such... for example... if joolz set out to fix all of valves mistakes... then they might have taken interest in his skills and offer him a job of some sort.... but actually i respect joolz for his coding skills and such..
more off topic.. what cheats would actually be used in natural selection... i mean you basiclly have a wall hack for both sides... and no aimbot is needed.. unless you just totally suck at aiming or dont have a mouse or something....
and even more off topic.. i was just rembering the good old days of 1.4 cs... and how i thought it was so funny that the hackers would use their speed hack and blast out of the spawn goign three times the normal speed.. and within ten seconds seeing their name flash by followed by "Perma Ban"
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->more off topic.. what cheats would actually be used in natural selection... i mean you basiclly have a wall hack for both sides... and no aimbot is needed.. unless you just totally suck at aiming or dont have a mouse or something....<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Only 10-ish bullets is required to kill a skulk. People with aimbots can run in a room and kill 4 skulks in one clip, whip out the pistol and kill a couple more, try doing it without an aimbot.
As for wallhacks, marines don't get to see aliens when they are still on motion-tracking, and they don't get to see them when they have no motion tracking. Aliens typically get motion-tracking very late in the game.
Then there are those punk **** kids with speed hacks that take a CC out in the time it takes to do just a couple of bites just to annoy everyone...
oh but that takes the fun out of everything.... if you can kill four skulks in one clip of lmg and they arent lined up in a straight line... then dear ******* god...
dunno bout u but ive taken out 4 skulks with a grenade before..
but come on now.. no one ever played cs and remembers the good old days of when people used speed hack? and were caught within like 5 seconds of using it? oh man thouse were some great times
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->oh but that takes the fun out of everything.... if you can kill four skulks in one clip of lmg and they arent lined up in a straight line... then dear ******* god... <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
...Yes that's one of the reasons why just about everyone hates cheaters...
Though if you use something like that you are obviously deliberately trying to ruin everyone's fun, worse yet, you take pleasure in ruining other people's fun. Even if this is a game that's not a person you wan't to meet in real-life for other purposes than sucker punching in the gut...
Cheaters are lame. Having said that, I used a wallhack in CS for a bit while learning (clanmate said it helps learn movement and where people would be). Oddly enough he was right, and after about a month I stopped using it, and actually increased in skill. My perception was up, and I felt I had to compensate for losing it so I noticed more; made me a better player overall.
So yes, hacks are horrible, but I found them just as usefull to learn how to move and shoot as I found the three-jump script to BHop.
Honestly Stung, playing CS for a month and while spectating actually paying attention would give you the same results as using wallhacks. The same can be true for any game.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Jan 14 2004, 10:49 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Jan 14 2004, 10:49 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Cheaters are lame. Having said that, I used a wallhack in CS for a bit while learning (clanmate said it helps learn movement and where people would be). Oddly enough he was right, and after about a month I stopped using it, and actually increased in skill. My perception was up, and I felt I had to compensate for losing it so I noticed more; made me a better player overall.
So yes, hacks are horrible, but I found them just as usefull to learn how to move and shoot as I found the three-jump script to BHop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> It does help new players, provided they take it off. I looked forever for a hack that drew the hitbox for the head, so I could find where it was. I never did find it, so I downloaded a big hack that had it, but I just used that. It helped me pinpoint where I should shoot to get a kill. I read about it in a CS strategy guide, and it seemed like a brilliant idea, and, it was.
"And by the way.. people keep forgetting it's just a freaking game."
sure its just a game and games are ment to be fun, think of it like this;
you play a nice game of football every sataday with your friends for a parkside football team every sataday
each match you play is a challange and fun, but then one day along comes "1337 h4xxor FC"
At kickoff you brake away beat there defence and slip the ball past the keeper its speeds towards the center of the goal then "wham" magically bounces out of the goal, then you look closer and they have completely filled the goal with a piece of perspex making it impossible for you to win, no matter how good you are, at this point the game no longer becomes a challange or fun.
So you decide to leave and go to another park to play with a different team, but to your disbelief they have tied some fishing line to the ball, and are dragging it round with them making it impossible for you to gain possesion of the ball.
So you are your team decides the game aint worth playing anymore with such opposition and go and look for a different sport to play.
"wow i sure talk blx at 5am" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
This is not the end of cheats,just a small delay. What can we do. Lamers will make hacks to be better and to **** ppl off and that will be that. Just like in real life ppl with no happiness find it by taking away other's.
People are good at all sorts of things. People try really hard and become very good at all sorts of things. People devote their spare time and work hard for free for all sorts of causes.
And some pieces of **** do all the above to provide people with the means of ruining my gaming experience. There are evil/bad people in this world who spend enormous amounts of time doing the WRONG FRIGGEN THING, some of them even do it for free because they get a kick out of it. They get no compliments from me, they get no respect for a single thing they do.
So if I ever met this Joolz, I'd say to him "Dude, I'm amazed at the level of dedication and amount of hard work you put into creating my misery..."
Then I would smash his testicles with a crowbar and tell him I'm only doing it because he wont "patch up holes in his genital protection system".
As long as the NS community downplays the severity of the cheating situation in NS, it's going to get worse. Many admins (from HK, nsarmslab, mark's, etc) refuse to put CD on their servers because they have friends and regulars that cheat there. They won't admit to it, but their pathetic anti-CD excuses are a giveaway: "ogfm CD eats up 80%5 of my cpu u n0ob".
The same mentality applies elsewhere. People seriously try to claim that CS isn't cheater-central. How they could tell you that with a straight face, when there are actually servers that are cheater-only?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->With great power comes great responsibility<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Cold-NiTe+Jan 15 2004, 05:38 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cold-NiTe @ Jan 15 2004, 05:38 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think what Esuna is trying to say, and oddly enough I agree with him on this is as follows:
1.) Neither Cheaters or Cheat Makers are in any sense good.
2.) Cheaters however cannot be respected for any particular skill.
3.) Cheat Makers <b>can be respected</b> <i>for knowledge of coding etc.</i>
4.) Thus; Cheat Makers > Cheaters.
5.) Thus; Cheat Makers and Cheaters are split into two categories in our opinions, NEITHER OF WHICH ARE GOOD, with Cheat Makers on top.
That it Esuna? Cause that's how I feel. -> They are bad guys, but they are good at what they do; sort of? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Pretty much, yeah. Heh.
I respect those who code the cheats, sure. But when they put them up for download so any script kiddy can get hold of it and be "omg teh l337z0r", that respect is kinda tarnished. Sure, showing off your work is good and all, but still...I kinda think that it's wasted talent that could be used elsewhere. All it does is hurts the game the cheat was made for.
BizZy_9mm_MessiahOld School MemberJoin Date: 2003-07-25Member: 18411Members, Constellation
Well it doesn't surprise me that clan's are using cheats to gain the upperhand in CS. Once you use a hack, you'll never come back. That's my phrase, I don't care if you used a hack for 1 month just to see where to aim. Why would you need a hack to do that? Like somone stated before just spectate, that's how I learned in CS. I wasn't the best but I built up my reflexes and got pretty good. Then cheats killed my interest. That Joolz guy is pretty intelligent, kudos for him.
In 99% of the cases, our dear old friend Osama doesn't actually pull the trigger... yet he is still ultimately responsible for the actions of his minions. And I highly doubt that all of his minions are told directly by him to do what they do either. So just because Osama created plans to destroy the world, but someone else actually did it... I still say Osama should die. Plain and simple.
If on the other hand, the creation of said plan is created for the sole purpose of submitting it to the proper authorities to be able to prevent it from ever happening... then hey... plan away. This is kind of how I can support the existence of guns as they also have their good points... its the people that make them bad.
To put it back in the domain of cheaters and cheat makers... its fine if people find loopholes and exploits of the system that allow them to be gods... but only if they intend to make it completely preventable in the future. If instead, said creator releases it to the masses, he is ultimately responsible for the destructive actions of his minions (even if he never asked them to do it).
If you need more proof of this kind of example go study some case law discussing chain of command in drug rings. They'll point you in the same direction.
Comments
He posted some kind of public statement that he was stopping production of JC / MC for some reason or another. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I believe he said he will still code them part time because valve won't respond to his emails. He claims if they put him on part time as an anti-cheat guy he'd stop most the cheats. (as most are his) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
That sound like simple blackmailing to me. And if I was Valve, I'd reply alright....with a mail, saying "Go to hell, you ****"
Stand up when you speak, you sound all muffled.
i very well imagine Valve dont really give two hoots about cheaters, if anything they like them!
ok lets say little 13yr old jimmy cheater, downloads a cheat 3 weeks later the anticheat software catches him he is now banned.
next week he goes out buys a new copy of half life for a Fiver and starts again!
get ten thousand 13yr old jimmy cheaters what does valve get? $$$$$$
come to terms with the fact that Valve and EA(bf1942) know about cheats they could stop them if they really could be bothered by why bother if it makes them more money. the mere fact that people can cheat in these games will make more people play them.
how long have cheats been around for Counter Strike now? years right? wel do you see the number of people playing Counter Strike falling in the last few years?
i very well imagine Valve dont really give two hoots about cheaters, if anything they like them!
ok lets say little 13yr old jimmy cheater, downloads a cheat 3 weeks later the anticheat software catches him he is now banned.
next week he goes out buys a new copy of half life for a Fiver and starts again!
get ten thousand 13yr old jimmy cheaters what does valve get? $$$$$$
come to terms with the fact that Valve and EA(bf1942) know about cheats they could stop them if they really could be bothered by why bother if it makes them more money. the mere fact that people can cheat in these games will make more people play them.
how long have cheats been around for Counter Strike now? years right? wel do you see the number of people playing Counter Strike falling in the last few years? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
There are not many people who'd go buy a second copy just to be able to play online again. And I suppose only a real persistent idiot would go so far and buy a third copy or beyond. So no, Valve doesn't make that much money by banning cheaters.
I got one word for you:
commas
What do you mean with that?
I mean, call me stupid, but i don't see how playing a video game, and murder are the same thing. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its a parallel. A metaphor. Please, when reading parallels/metaphors, dont assume that the author is trying to equalise the crime in the metaphor with the crime IRL - I'm just putting the exact same situation in a different format. The fact that that man would be tried in a court of law is showing that while he may put in the hard effort, constantly updating his bullets and distributing them for free, but never actually pulling the trigger, he would be seen as almost as guilty as those who did. Same applies to filth like Joolz. He creates and distributes the hacks, without actually using them himself - but he's still just as guilty.
Joolz manufacters misery for thousands of gamers. The fact that Valve ignored his email means squat - he's doing the wrong thing, not valve. And now that unspeakable **** has the gall to expect someone to give him a job. Thats a really bad message to be giving out - create cheats, publish them, and if you are really really really good, you might land yourself a job. They should offer him a job, and then when he shows up for the interview, break all his fingers.
As I said previously esuna, you are always making comments in off-topic about how "people suck/humanity sucks" etc - yet you applaud/respect the effort put in by one man to create misery for thousands. Am I the only one that finds that flat out contradictory?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steampowered.co.uk: Do you have anything you would like to announce to the gaming community?
Joolz: No real announcements, just a word of advice. Valve screwed up the HL engine, not the cheats. They made it with holes and haven't patched them. Like MS... imagine if they didn't patch Blaster?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now if you look very carefully, you'll see that the HL engine has (sadly) a LOT of holes that need patching. Generally half of these can be patched by mod-makers, but others have to be fixed by Valve....sadly, those that holes Valve needs to patch tend to be in the core engine's functions
How I know? I use my eyes a lot <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
BTW, there was no line where he sadi that he'd stop making cheats if he were hired by Valve, because he generally coded it out of interest. It generally comes out of these 2 quotes
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steampowered.co.uk: (Decent) how did you get the idea to do the metacheat, and how did you get in side the code, so to speak?
Joolz: Hmmm... MetaCheat started as a concept. I was pondering if it was possible to push .NET Framework to do such a thing. In fact, Microsoft say that this isn't technically possible But, MC proves it is, It all started there... As for getting inside the code,If you mean Half-Life there is a Half-Life SDK available from Valve which details ALL the structures that they use in memory they say a lot of things like that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Steampowered.co.uk: WSR^Robinb asks : Has creating Metacheat been a challange for you, or was it a piece of cake?
Joolz: a HUGE challenge. I've had people from Microsoft Developer Support in Reading asking how its done! They didn't think .NET could do it but i've proved it can. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From then on, it became a well...cheat <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
First off, cheaters suck @ss. Worse, many never outgrow the habit of winning through cheating. If they have to play 'straight', like everyone else, they quit or find a game they CAN cheat on. And I agree, folks who make it easy for others to cheat aren't much better than (comparatively speaking) gunrunners and such.
But, like anything else people really want to do (apparently), making it illegal would be kinda pointless. It'd simply go underground and, (like real-world vice) get even more popular/'profitable'. Anything running counter to human nature will, sooner or later, fail or be abandoned in a sudden burst of common sense.
The best 'policing' to be done is in forums like this, and with alert players/admins/servers/whatever in the 'real' gaming world keeping it in check as best they can. So keep griping, keep flaming, keep hammering at 'em. There will always be cheaters... but we don't necessarily HAVE to play with them... <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Okay, now that I'm done with that..
Valve should hand all the anti-cheat stuff over to the UA people.. CD is much more effective then VAC, now imagine if every server ran CD, very very few cheats would work.
[OPINION] I see nothing wrong with writing your own cheat, because then atleast, you understand the game, and what you are doing. What I have a problem with is the download-a-skill people, who usually are annoying anyway[/OPINION]
How can cheating make the game fun for anyone? For you, there is no skill involved, and you pretty much sit there and walk around? For everyone else, they dont stand a chance
I think that this post further proves my theory that the school systems are failing. He's obviously never learned to type, nor has he learned to use the English language effectively. I had trouble reading it, to say the least. People who post like that need a ban until they can pass a typing test or something.
Onto the topic of cheating, and the people who make cheats...
While, I think that people who cheat and exploit are disgusting and have no skill, the people who make the cheats are ok. Making cheats is a great way to hone your skills as a programmer. Hmm...
im not knocking the coders of hacks or anything but.. if they spent their time creating a decent anti cheat.. then wouldent that be more productive and would get alot of support and such... for example... if joolz set out to fix all of valves mistakes... then they might have taken interest in his skills and offer him a job of some sort.... but actually i respect joolz for his coding skills and such..
more off topic.. what cheats would actually be used in natural selection... i mean you basiclly have a wall hack for both sides... and no aimbot is needed.. unless you just totally suck at aiming or dont have a mouse or something....
and even more off topic.. i was just rembering the good old days of 1.4 cs... and how i thought it was so funny that the hackers would use their speed hack and blast out of the spawn goign three times the normal speed.. and within ten seconds seeing their name flash by followed by "Perma Ban"
Only 10-ish bullets is required to kill a skulk. People with aimbots can run in a room and kill 4 skulks in one clip, whip out the pistol and kill a couple more, try doing it without an aimbot.
As for wallhacks, marines don't get to see aliens when they are still on motion-tracking, and they don't get to see them when they have no motion tracking. Aliens typically get motion-tracking very late in the game.
Then there are those punk **** kids with speed hacks that take a CC out in the time it takes to do just a couple of bites just to annoy everyone...
dunno bout u but ive taken out 4 skulks with a grenade before..
but come on now.. no one ever played cs and remembers the good old days of when people used speed hack? and were caught within like 5 seconds of using it? oh man thouse were some great times
...Yes that's one of the reasons why just about everyone hates cheaters...
Though if you use something like that you are obviously deliberately trying to ruin everyone's fun, worse yet, you take pleasure in ruining other people's fun. Even if this is a game that's not a person you wan't to meet in real-life for other purposes than sucker punching in the gut...
So yes, hacks are horrible, but I found them just as usefull to learn how to move and shoot as I found the three-jump script to BHop.
So yes, hacks are horrible, but I found them just as usefull to learn how to move and shoot as I found the three-jump script to BHop. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
It does help new players, provided they take it off. I looked forever for a hack that drew the hitbox for the head, so I could find where it was. I never did find it, so I downloaded a big hack that had it, but I just used that. It helped me pinpoint where I should shoot to get a kill. I read about it in a CS strategy guide, and it seemed like a brilliant idea, and, it was.
sure its just a game and games are ment to be fun, think of it like this;
you play a nice game of football every sataday with your friends for a parkside football team every sataday
each match you play is a challange and fun, but then one day along comes "1337 h4xxor FC"
At kickoff you brake away beat there defence and slip the ball past the keeper its speeds towards the center of the goal then "wham" magically bounces out of the goal, then you look closer and they have completely filled the goal with a piece of perspex making it impossible for you to win, no matter how good you are, at this point the game no longer becomes a challange or fun.
So you decide to leave and go to another park to play with a different team, but to your disbelief they have tied some fishing line to the ball, and are dragging it round with them making it impossible for you to gain possesion of the ball.
So you are your team decides the game aint worth playing anymore with such opposition and go and look for a different sport to play.
"wow i sure talk blx at 5am" <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
1.) Neither Cheaters or Cheat Makers are in any sense good.
2.) Cheaters however cannot be respected for any particular skill.
3.) Cheat Makers <b>can be respected</b> <i>for knowledge of coding etc.</i>
4.) Thus; Cheat Makers > Cheaters.
5.) Thus; Cheat Makers and Cheaters are split into two categories in our opinions, NEITHER OF WHICH ARE GOOD, with Cheat Makers on top.
That it Esuna? Cause that's how I feel. -> They are bad guys, but they are good at what they do; sort of?
And some pieces of **** do all the above to provide people with the means of ruining my gaming experience. There are evil/bad people in this world who spend enormous amounts of time doing the WRONG FRIGGEN THING, some of them even do it for free because they get a kick out of it. They get no compliments from me, they get no respect for a single thing they do.
So if I ever met this Joolz, I'd say to him "Dude, I'm amazed at the level of dedication and amount of hard work you put into creating my misery..."
Then I would smash his testicles with a crowbar and tell him I'm only doing it because he wont "patch up holes in his genital protection system".
The same mentality applies elsewhere. People seriously try to claim that CS isn't cheater-central. How they could tell you that with a straight face, when there are actually servers that are cheater-only?
Cliche, but true
1.) Neither Cheaters or Cheat Makers are in any sense good.
2.) Cheaters however cannot be respected for any particular skill.
3.) Cheat Makers <b>can be respected</b> <i>for knowledge of coding etc.</i>
4.) Thus; Cheat Makers > Cheaters.
5.) Thus; Cheat Makers and Cheaters are split into two categories in our opinions, NEITHER OF WHICH ARE GOOD, with Cheat Makers on top.
That it Esuna? Cause that's how I feel. -> They are bad guys, but they are good at what they do; sort of? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much, yeah. Heh.
In 99% of the cases, our dear old friend Osama doesn't actually pull the trigger... yet he is still ultimately responsible for the actions of his minions. And I highly doubt that all of his minions are told directly by him to do what they do either. So just because Osama created plans to destroy the world, but someone else actually did it... I still say Osama should die. Plain and simple.
If on the other hand, the creation of said plan is created for the sole purpose of submitting it to the proper authorities to be able to prevent it from ever happening... then hey... plan away. This is kind of how I can support the existence of guns as they also have their good points... its the people that make them bad.
To put it back in the domain of cheaters and cheat makers... its fine if people find loopholes and exploits of the system that allow them to be gods... but only if they intend to make it completely preventable in the future. If instead, said creator releases it to the masses, he is ultimately responsible for the destructive actions of his minions (even if he never asked them to do it).
If you need more proof of this kind of example go study some case law discussing chain of command in drug rings. They'll point you in the same direction.