I find that 1v1 a turret is handable becouse i can spin around it faster then it can turn. But in clusters they tend to be more efficent, just know were to place them in the right strigical spot so that the turrets can cover eatch other.
<!--QuoteBegin--Restrik+Jan 7 2004, 07:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Restrik @ Jan 7 2004, 07:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its sad, when 1 OC can take out 1 or 2 unawares marines, when 3-4 turrets have trouble taking out 1 or 2 unawares skulks.
Why is this? The reason a lot of people turret farm is b/c its the only way to actually <i>hit</i> an alien, whether it be a skulk or an onos.
Does anyone else find this annoying/frustrating? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG NUUUUBBB!!!111!! jk,
anyway, this is because, oc's do 50 dmg, and turrets do 10 dmg, so you can see, its a BIG difference in damage. other than that, turrets have PERFECT accuracy, they dont use a projectile, its INSTANT hit, while oc's tend to be more clumsy and easy to kill over a corner, my point, turrets are fine
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->anyway, this is because, oc's do 50 dmg, and turrets do 10 dmg, so you can see, its a BIG difference in damage. other than that, turrets have PERFECT accuracy, they dont use a projectile, its INSTANT hit, while oc's tend to be more clumsy and easy to kill over a corner, my point, turrets are fine <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't seem to have perfect accuracy... I know they're <i>way</i> more accurate than before, and seem to be very accurate now, they can't be perfect... Perfect would mean, on a stationary target, they would never change where they were shooting (or so I'd imagine), yet, hiding behind a RT I can only get partially behind, I get hit every 4-5 times the turrets shoot, rather than every time as perfect accuracy would imply.
Not to say they are/are not accurate enough, just saying they don't seem to have perfect accuracy.
<!--QuoteBegin--bLuISh+Jan 7 2004, 10:14 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (bLuISh @ Jan 7 2004, 10:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Restrik+Jan 7 2004, 07:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Restrik @ Jan 7 2004, 07:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its sad, when 1 OC can take out 1 or 2 unawares marines, when 3-4 turrets have trouble taking out 1 or 2 unawares skulks.
Why is this? The reason a lot of people turret farm is b/c its the only way to actually <i>hit</i> an alien, whether it be a skulk or an onos.
Does anyone else find this annoying/frustrating? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> OMG NUUUUBBB!!!111!! jk,
anyway, this is because, oc's do 50 dmg, and turrets do 10 dmg, so you can see, its a BIG difference in damage. other than that, turrets have PERFECT accuracy, they dont use a projectile, its INSTANT hit, while oc's tend to be more clumsy and easy to kill over a corner, my point, turrets are fine <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> OC's don't do 50. They about as strong as a lerk spike. So it's like 16 per hit or 17 or 18.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Lets see... skulk regen L3 gives you 7.5 points every 2 seconds... turrets do 10 dmg more than once every second... In short, the skulk would have to bite quickly, or have other support. Or the turret be completely alone of course, but that never happens except when it doesn't matter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I find using the turret im biting as cover from the other turrets works effectively, unless the comm uses 4+ turrets effectively. Circle strafing is very good but as was noted not as useful with multiple turrets so you need 1 skulk per turret.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->§ethTheMedic. Posted: Jan 7 2004, 05:11 PM <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (Restrik @ Jan 7 2004, 12:18 PM) No, i don't think turrets should replace marines, and yes i have played 1.x but, as it stands now, you can not effectivly repulse a 2-3 skulk assault group w/ 3-4 turrest as would 3-4 oc's <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have you actually played 1.x?
the turrets were horrible, you never ever built them. I like that. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> In the early versions of 1.0, i cant remember which build, but the turrets didnt rely on a TF to fire back then. So it meant a TF with 5 turrets meant that each individual turret had to be killed. Quite a hard task in the early versions, as regen sucked bad and every skulk had cara.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jan 8 2004, 06:01 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jan 8 2004, 06:01 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> OC's don't do 50. They about as strong as a lerk spike. So it's like 16 per hit or 17 or 18. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually I'm pretty sure it's 40-50 dmg, since marines die in 3 or so shots, not 10.
<!--QuoteBegin--semi-psychotic+Jan 7 2004, 08:47 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (semi-psychotic @ Jan 7 2004, 08:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Defending turret cluster: cover blind spots and electrify TF. Problem solved.
Defending OC wall: gorgies and defense chambers nearby. Problem solved.
Attacking OC wall: 2-3 marines, health and ammo on standby. Problem solved.
Attacking turret cluster: 2-3 very determined skulks or a fade, or an onos: Problem solved. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Let me give you two scenarios:
Marine Base under attack: Fade blinks in, hits a couple of times and blinks away again when hurt badly. Now If a rine follows the Fade to finish it off and finds a wol outside the base he hasn't got the time to crouch behind a corner and start shooting the OCs because in about 3 sek the Fades gonna come back -> dead Marine.
Alien Hive under attack (assuming rines are not sieging): Rine runs in, shots at hive and runs out to get some amo/heal/whatever. How long do you think will it take the skulk coming after it to jump over the 3 turrets and kill the rine? Maybe it gets killed by the turrets as well. So in the best case its -> dead Skulk + dead Marine
I'm not proposing to simply increase the damage of the turrets but maybe to take out their instant hit and give them some more damage instead. (Or simply fix the bug that prevents the turrets to deal the additional damage they should due to weapon upgrades and have a look how that afects gameplay)
Turrets should have little wheels so they can go trundling off to chase down their targets. Of course, this would take them out range of the turret factory, so a marine should be able to jump in it and drive it.
If the aliens aren't watchful, a skilled TF driver could get into the hive with a swarm of twenty turrets clunking along behind it.
Oh, and phase gates look like flying saucers, so they should be allowed to fly. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jan 7 2004, 07:29 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jan 7 2004, 07:29 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Restrik+Jan 7 2004, 10:19 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Restrik @ Jan 7 2004, 10:19 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its sad, when 1 OC can take out 1 or 2 unawares marines, when 3-4 turrets have trouble taking out 1 or 2 unawares skulks.
Why is this? The reason a lot of people turret farm is b/c its the only way to actually <i>hit</i> an alien, whether it be a skulk or an onos.
Does anyone else find this annoying/frustrating? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Learn to aim... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> WTH are u talking about how can turrets being unaccurate have anything to do with him not being able to aim??
Turrets can hit leaping skulks and blinking fades. OCs can barely hit running marines, they shoot really slow, and they're really weak. If you place the turrets in good spots it's enough to keep skulks, and some other classes out of the protected area.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Marine Base under attack: Fade blinks in, hits a couple of times and blinks away again when hurt badly. Now If a rine follows the Fade to finish it off and finds a wol outside the base he hasn't got the time to crouch behind a corner and start shooting the OCs because in about 3 sek the Fades gonna come back -> dead Marine.
Alien Hive under attack (assuming rines are not sieging): Rine runs in, shots at hive and runs out to get some amo/heal/whatever. How long do you think will it take the skulk coming after it to jump over the 3 turrets and kill the rine? Maybe it gets killed by the turrets as well. So in the best case its -> dead Skulk + dead Marine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You have a good point. Although, we should be comparing the fade to a relatively well-upgraded and equipped marine, say 2 weapons, 2 armor, and a shogun or 3/3 and a LMG?
If anything you've convinced me that turrets should cost less, as they are less effective. Reasons?
>> Cumbersome. They must be built near a turret factory, and they must be built by marines, and marines are much harder to get to strategic positions than a skulk that can climb into a vent, go gorge and start building OC's. >> less powerful against skulks than OC's are against marines. By the way, have you guys ever throught about the speed difference between a skluk and a marine? Celerity-Gorges travel about as fast as marines, and the turrets nail them every time, much like an OC nails marines. Meaning, OCs and turrets are just as accurate.
The only problem is that lower turret cost (say, 5-8 res) would encourage farming. Well, the aliens have a limit on the number of OC's they can place in one area. This actually might work well with marines (TF can only support 10 turrets or something).
Dude seriously, ive BLINKED past turrets as a fade and got hit by them all u have to do to avoid oc fire is strafe back and fourth or shoot and then hide behind something and repeat
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dude seriously, ive BLINKED past turrets as a fade and got hit by them all u have to do to avoid oc fire is strafe back and fourth or shoot and then hide behind something and repeat <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With 3-4 OCs, the probability of you changing velocity at just the right moment consistently to avoid all 3-4 OCs (if you move in the same direction at the same speed, they will hit you, so you have to change velocity) is very very small. Sure, you can pull it off against a few volleys with a bit of luck and skill, but to do it consistently is nigh impossible. Otherwise marines would never shoot OCs from behind corners, they would just strafe their way across the map.
This should end discussion about turret accuracy. I saw this in the 3.0e build changelog:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O More server performance enhancements (visibility, and <b>turret target acquisition</b>) <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> With my emphasis included there.
<!--QuoteBegin--Spazmatic+Jan 8 2004, 10:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spazmatic @ Jan 8 2004, 10:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Dude seriously, ive BLINKED past turrets as a fade and got hit by them all u have to do to avoid oc fire is strafe back and fourth or shoot and then hide behind something and repeat <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With 3-4 OCs, the probability of you changing velocity at just the right moment consistently to avoid all 3-4 OCs (if you move in the same direction at the same speed, they will hit you, so you have to change velocity) is very very small. Sure, you can pull it off against a few volleys with a bit of luck and skill, but to do it consistently is nigh impossible. Otherwise marines would never shoot OCs from behind corners, they would just strafe their way across the map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ive done it before, got hit only 2ce.... and that was against 2 ocs
<!--QuoteBegin--Spazmatic+Jan 7 2004, 08:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spazmatic @ Jan 7 2004, 08:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->anyway, this is because, oc's do 50 dmg, and turrets do 10 dmg, so you can see, its a BIG difference in damage. other than that, turrets have PERFECT accuracy, they dont use a projectile, its INSTANT hit, while oc's tend to be more clumsy and easy to kill over a corner, my point, turrets are fine <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
They don't seem to have perfect accuracy... I know they're <i>way</i> more accurate than before, and seem to be very accurate now, they can't be perfect... Perfect would mean, on a stationary target, they would never change where they were shooting (or so I'd imagine), yet, hiding behind a RT I can only get partially behind, I get hit every 4-5 times the turrets shoot, rather than every time as perfect accuracy would imply.
Not to say they are/are not accurate enough, just saying they don't seem to have perfect accuracy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> um, key words "hiding behind an rt"
anyway oc's never hit when ur behind something too. only complain if ur in dead sight of a turret and still don get hit, cuz then we'll have a problem
restrik, marines are primarily ranged attackers. The basic marine can take down an OC. If a turret quickly killed basic skulks and never ever missed, how would basic aliens survive an encounter with a turret, or take them down, especially if lerk spike is removed?
A skulk can survive seeing a turret because it is fast. A turret misses because otherwise alien rambos have less of a chance to survive a turret encounter than a marine. A skulk may seem to escape unscathed but remember, that is because it is fast, and it has lower hp and no ranged attack and so needs to compensate.
The situations are not strictly parallel of course; the marine loses ammo, the skulk loses health. But the idea is that both basic forms can see a turret and leave without dying, or solo each other's turrets w/ roughly the same expenditure of time and resources.
It seems to me though that if you have skulks as dumb as your marines they would get hurt anyway. Skulks may have an easier time of escaping but marines have to be pretty slow or stuck to unwittingly die to an OC
PS in 1.04 turrets were less accurate. Much less so. And cost more. And there was no elec tfac.
I'd say even under those curricula the two are unbalanced.
1. Marine ammo cost more than skulk heath: Regen costs 2 after a one time cost of 30 and provides an infinate ammount of heath, rine ammo cost 2 a clip of fifty, and oc takes more than one clip to kill, thus an oc requires a minimum cost of 2+ to kill. Or infinate and free after a one time cost of (what is it 15?) for a armory but even then, the time cost is massive, you almost never run out of ammo near your base.
2. Area denile: A WoL will always deny an area to a vanilla marine, a turret farm will never deny an area to a determined skulk, I good skulk has become more then acostumed to leaping behind a TF or RT to put the damage on with no worry of being hit by a turret.
Although I dont agree with anyone who says that the marine turrets arn't accurate enough. Like said before, turrets will hit a blinking Fade, where as a marine can straith to avoid OC fire, put a jetpack on that marine and back him up will health packs, and there is no WoL that can stop his passage
Comments
Defending OC wall: gorgies and defense chambers nearby. Problem solved.
Attacking OC wall: 2-3 marines, health and ammo on standby. Problem solved.
Attacking turret cluster: 2-3 very determined skulks or a fade, or an onos: Problem solved.
Why is this? The reason a lot of people turret farm is b/c its the only way to actually <i>hit</i> an alien, whether it be a skulk or an onos.
Does anyone else find this annoying/frustrating? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG NUUUUBBB!!!111!! jk,
anyway, this is because, oc's do 50 dmg, and turrets do 10 dmg, so you can see, its a BIG difference in damage. other than that, turrets have PERFECT accuracy, they dont use a projectile, its INSTANT hit, while oc's tend to be more clumsy and easy to kill over a corner, my point, turrets are fine
They don't seem to have perfect accuracy... I know they're <i>way</i> more accurate than before, and seem to be very accurate now, they can't be perfect... Perfect would mean, on a stationary target, they would never change where they were shooting (or so I'd imagine), yet, hiding behind a RT I can only get partially behind, I get hit every 4-5 times the turrets shoot, rather than every time as perfect accuracy would imply.
Not to say they are/are not accurate enough, just saying they don't seem to have perfect accuracy.
Why is this? The reason a lot of people turret farm is b/c its the only way to actually <i>hit</i> an alien, whether it be a skulk or an onos.
Does anyone else find this annoying/frustrating? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
OMG NUUUUBBB!!!111!! jk,
anyway, this is because, oc's do 50 dmg, and turrets do 10 dmg, so you can see, its a BIG difference in damage. other than that, turrets have PERFECT accuracy, they dont use a projectile, its INSTANT hit, while oc's tend to be more clumsy and easy to kill over a corner, my point, turrets are fine <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
OC's don't do 50. They about as strong as a lerk spike. So it's like 16 per hit or 17 or 18.
In short, the skulk would have to bite quickly, or have other support. Or the turret be completely alone of course, but that never happens except when it doesn't matter. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find using the turret im biting as cover from the other turrets works effectively, unless the comm uses 4+ turrets effectively. Circle strafing is very good but as was noted not as useful with multiple turrets so you need 1 skulk per turret.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->§ethTheMedic. Posted: Jan 7 2004, 05:11 PM
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> (Restrik @ Jan 7 2004, 12:18 PM)
No, i don't think turrets should replace marines, and yes i have played 1.x but, as it stands now, you can not effectivly repulse a 2-3 skulk assault group w/ 3-4 turrest as would 3-4 oc's <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
have you actually played 1.x?
the turrets were horrible, you never ever built them. I like that.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In the early versions of 1.0, i cant remember which build, but the turrets didnt rely on a TF to fire back then. So it meant a TF with 5 turrets meant that each individual turret had to be killed. Quite a hard task in the early versions, as regen sucked bad and every skulk had cara.
- RD
OC's don't do 50. They about as strong as a lerk spike. So it's like 16 per hit or 17 or 18. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I'm pretty sure it's 40-50 dmg, since marines die in 3 or so shots, not 10.
Defending OC wall: gorgies and defense chambers nearby. Problem solved.
Attacking OC wall: 2-3 marines, health and ammo on standby. Problem solved.
Attacking turret cluster: 2-3 very determined skulks or a fade, or an onos: Problem solved. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let me give you two scenarios:
Marine Base under attack: Fade blinks in, hits a couple of times and blinks away again when hurt badly. Now If a rine follows the Fade to finish it off and finds a wol outside the base he hasn't got the time to crouch behind a corner and start shooting the OCs because in about 3 sek the Fades gonna come back -> dead Marine.
Alien Hive under attack (assuming rines are not sieging): Rine runs in, shots at hive and runs out to get some amo/heal/whatever. How long do you think will it take the skulk coming after it to jump over the 3 turrets and kill the rine? Maybe it gets killed by the turrets as well. So in the best case its -> dead Skulk + dead Marine
I'm not proposing to simply increase the damage of the turrets but maybe to take out their instant hit and give them some more damage instead. (Or simply fix the bug that prevents the turrets to deal the additional damage they should due to weapon upgrades and have a look how that afects gameplay)
Shiriki
If the aliens aren't watchful, a skilled TF driver could get into the hive with a swarm of twenty turrets clunking along behind it.
Oh, and phase gates look like flying saucers, so they should be allowed to fly. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why is this? The reason a lot of people turret farm is b/c its the only way to actually <i>hit</i> an alien, whether it be a skulk or an onos.
Does anyone else find this annoying/frustrating? <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Learn to aim... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
WTH are u talking about how can turrets being unaccurate have anything to do with him not being able to aim??
Turrets can hit leaping skulks and blinking fades.
OCs can barely hit running marines, they shoot really slow, and they're really weak.
If you place the turrets in good spots it's enough to keep skulks, and some other classes out of the protected area.
Alien Hive under attack (assuming rines are not sieging): Rine runs in, shots at hive and runs out to get some amo/heal/whatever. How long do you think will it take the skulk coming after it to jump over the 3 turrets and kill the rine? Maybe it gets killed by the turrets as well. So in the best case its -> dead Skulk + dead Marine<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You have a good point. Although, we should be comparing the fade to a relatively well-upgraded and equipped marine, say 2 weapons, 2 armor, and a shogun or 3/3 and a LMG?
If anything you've convinced me that turrets should cost less, as they are less effective. Reasons?
>> Cumbersome. They must be built near a turret factory, and they must be built by marines, and marines are much harder to get to strategic positions than a skulk that can climb into a vent, go gorge and start building OC's.
>> less powerful against skulks than OC's are against marines. By the way, have you guys ever throught about the speed difference between a skluk and a marine? Celerity-Gorges travel about as fast as marines, and the turrets nail them every time, much like an OC nails marines. Meaning, OCs and turrets are just as accurate.
The only problem is that lower turret cost (say, 5-8 res) would encourage farming. Well, the aliens have a limit on the number of OC's they can place in one area. This actually might work well with marines (TF can only support 10 turrets or something).
With 3-4 OCs, the probability of you changing velocity at just the right moment consistently to avoid all 3-4 OCs (if you move in the same direction at the same speed, they will hit you, so you have to change velocity) is very very small. Sure, you can pull it off against a few volleys with a bit of luck and skill, but to do it consistently is nigh impossible. Otherwise marines would never shoot OCs from behind corners, they would just strafe their way across the map.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->O More server performance enhancements (visibility, and <b>turret target acquisition</b>)
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
With my emphasis included there.
With 3-4 OCs, the probability of you changing velocity at just the right moment consistently to avoid all 3-4 OCs (if you move in the same direction at the same speed, they will hit you, so you have to change velocity) is very very small. Sure, you can pull it off against a few volleys with a bit of luck and skill, but to do it consistently is nigh impossible. Otherwise marines would never shoot OCs from behind corners, they would just strafe their way across the map. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
ive done it before, got hit only 2ce.... and that was against 2 ocs
They don't seem to have perfect accuracy... I know they're <i>way</i> more accurate than before, and seem to be very accurate now, they can't be perfect... Perfect would mean, on a stationary target, they would never change where they were shooting (or so I'd imagine), yet, hiding behind a RT I can only get partially behind, I get hit every 4-5 times the turrets shoot, rather than every time as perfect accuracy would imply.
Not to say they are/are not accurate enough, just saying they don't seem to have perfect accuracy. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
um, key words "hiding behind an rt"
anyway oc's never hit when ur behind something too. only complain if ur in dead sight of a turret and still don get hit, cuz then we'll have a problem
A skulk can survive seeing a turret because it is fast. A turret misses because otherwise alien rambos have less of a chance to survive a turret encounter than a marine. A skulk may seem to escape unscathed but remember, that is because it is fast, and it has lower hp and no ranged attack and so needs to compensate.
The situations are not strictly parallel of course; the marine loses ammo, the skulk loses health. But the idea is that both basic forms can see a turret and leave without dying, or solo each other's turrets w/ roughly the same expenditure of time and resources.
It seems to me though that if you have skulks as dumb as your marines they would get hurt anyway. Skulks may have an easier time of escaping but marines have to be pretty slow or stuck to unwittingly die to an OC
PS in 1.04 turrets were less accurate. Much less so. And cost more. And there was no elec tfac.
1. Marine ammo cost more than skulk heath: Regen costs 2 after a one time cost of 30 and provides an infinate ammount of heath, rine ammo cost 2 a clip of fifty, and oc takes more than one clip to kill, thus an oc requires a minimum cost of 2+ to kill. Or infinate and free after a one time cost of (what is it 15?) for a armory but even then, the time cost is massive, you almost never run out of ammo near your base.
2. Area denile: A WoL will always deny an area to a vanilla marine, a turret farm will never deny an area to a determined skulk, I good skulk has become more then acostumed to leaping behind a TF or RT to put the damage on with no worry of being hit by a turret.
Although I dont agree with anyone who says that the marine turrets arn't accurate enough. Like said before, turrets will hit a blinking Fade, where as a marine can straith to avoid OC fire, put a jetpack on that marine and back him up will health packs, and there is no WoL that can stop his passage