<!--QuoteBegin--Fog_cartoons+Jan 10 2004, 08:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fog_cartoons @ Jan 10 2004, 08:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's grammatically incorrect! I can't see how it can be oni when it ends os not us. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Top marks that man.
I didnt see them in the options <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
I honestly couldnt be bothered to read through ten pages, but basically its blatently Onii/Oni.
Its a made up word. So what if its grammatically incorrect? So is half the english language. Its supposed to be the hardest language in the world to learn coz of all the dodgy grammar, and the fact that only half the words in it actually follow a set pattern - everything from plurals to pronunciations...
I say that if Flayra wants to call it Onii, let it be so. If he wants to call it an Onos, then thou will willst be done <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
But, its blatently Onii/Oni. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Cypher---GorgeLover+Jan 10 2004, 10:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cypher---GorgeLover @ Jan 10 2004, 10:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> why shouldnt they? those words still belong to the english language...
onos is grammatically correct, and oni isnt. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't see Onos in the dictionary, with the definition of "Large, cow-like alien in Natural Selection". Besides, Kharaa isn't English, so what makes you think Onos is?
<!--QuoteBegin--MrMojo+Jan 10 2004, 10:23 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MrMojo @ Jan 10 2004, 10:23 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Cypher---GorgeLover+Jan 10 2004, 10:03 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cypher---GorgeLover @ Jan 10 2004, 10:03 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> why shouldnt they? those words still belong to the english language...
onos is grammatically correct, and oni isnt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I don't see Onos in the dictionary, with the definition of "Large, cow-like alien in Natural Selection". Besides, Kharaa isn't English, so what makes you think Onos is? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well, fade, skulk, and gorge are all english...Kharaa is one of the only words in the whole game derived from something other than english.
It's just that onos makes alot more sense, and there is more reason to say it that way.
<!--QuoteBegin--Fog_cartoons+Jan 10 2004, 07:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fog_cartoons @ Jan 10 2004, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's grammatically incorrect! I can't see how it can be oni when it ends os not us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you check the plural of rhinoceros you will see that one of its plurals is in fact rhonoceri... thus the word does not have to end in '-us' in its singular form to end in '-i' in its plural.
And if you read my previous posts about grammar rules you will note that while onos is still a valid plural form, it is misused in the context of this poll and therefore the only correct answer is oni. Had the poll been phrased slightly better and an extra option for "Both" been given then "Both" would be the clear winner i imagine.
[EDIT] Before posting any more arguments based on grammar, know that I have an English Masters as a roommate and have been consulting him on the matter. If he's wrong by concensus then I feel for the future health of the English language as it means that other rediculous words may become legitimate in the future... like "teh" and "omg".
<!--QuoteBegin--AoF.Palin+Jan 10 2004, 01:55 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AoF.Palin @ Jan 10 2004, 01:55 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Fog_cartoons+Jan 10 2004, 07:06 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Fog_cartoons @ Jan 10 2004, 07:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> It's grammatically incorrect! I can't see how it can be oni when it ends os not us. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> If you check the plural of rhinoceros you will see that one of its plurals is in fact rhonoceri... thus the word does not have to end in '-us' in its singular form to end in '-i' in its plural.
And if you read my previous posts about grammar rules you will note that while onos is still a valid plural form, it is misused in the context of this poll and therefore the only correct answer is oni. Had the poll been phrased slightly better and an extra option for "Both" been given then "Both" would be the clear winner i imagine.
[EDIT] Before posting any more arguments based on grammar, know that I have an English Masters as a roommate and have been consulting him on the matter. If he's wrong by concensus then I feel for the future health of the English language as it means that other rediculous words may become legitimate in the future... like "teh" and "omg". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You are wrong.
Both Rhinoceroses is becoming more accepted over Rhinoceri in dictionaries.
<!--QuoteBegin--Forlorn+Jan 10 2004, 01:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Forlorn @ Jan 10 2004, 01:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You are wrong.
Both Rhinoceroses is becoming more accepted over Rhinoceri in dictionaries. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> First, I don't trust many dictionaries for judging grammatical correctness. They are used for the sole purpose of finding definitions / spellings of a word that you are concerned about.
Second, Dictionaries are rarely a definitive source on ALL forms of a word. Forms of a word are generated by the grammar context the word is found, not by "well there is only one plural form so it must be correct" because in many instances even "made up" words (and this happens often in literary works and journals) are more "correct" than established words.
My roomate goes on to say that there are thousands of words that we are taught having only one singular and one plural form that actually have upwards to 8 technical plural forms though some forms overlap.
Thirdly, if I understand that you meant "Both Rhinoceroses" to be correct then I would agree as Both is an absolute adjective as opposed to an ambiguous adjective. Rhinoceri in that case would be wrong.
Finally, we just called up two of his professors and they both agree with the verdict that while both onos and oni are valid plural forms, Oni is the correct form for this context.
[EDIT] my roommate told me to tell you guys that using "correct" and "wrong" in these arguments is a mistake... and we should from now on use "preffered" and "not preffered" as there is technically no such thing as "correct" in English
When I started reading this, Oni was winning by 6 whole votes! Which I gather is fairly significant for this poll. But while I was trudging through 26 pages of Oni deliberations, Onos got another three votes.
Anytime I have a few seconds to think clearly, which includes any time I type, I use Oni. But if I'm running down a hall and all of a sudden two Oni jump out at me (any more and I couldn't see them anyway, as Onos are still good at blocking vision if nothing else), I'm liable to just yell "Several Onos approaching base!" through voice com.
I use onos, but only because 'onii' doesn't ever seem right, and I figured that yelling "8 onos coming!" kinda tells everyone the same thing anyway. But I'd like to know what all the devs have decided on, is it SUPPOSED to be 'onos' or 'onii'?
I disqualify everyone for not reading the entire thread before posting, and additionally propose a thread derail - Plural Onos topic shall be replaced by a discussion of what the plural form of <b>Jesus</b> is. As used the in the sentance "A bucketful of Jesuses". For additional credit write a short story involving a bucket full of Jesuses.
<!--QuoteBegin--Cxwf+Jan 10 2004, 02:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Jan 10 2004, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When I started reading this, Oni was winning by 6 whole votes! Which I gather is fairly significant for this poll. But while I was trudging through 26 pages of Oni deliberations, Onos got another three votes.
Anytime I have a few seconds to think clearly, which includes any time I type, I use Oni. But if I'm running down a hall and all of a sudden two Oni jump out at me (any more and I couldn't see them anyway, as Onos are still good at blocking vision if nothing else), I'm liable to just yell "Several Onos approaching base!" through voice com. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> heh... seems like you have your grammar backwards... "two Oni" should be "two Onos" and "as Onos are" should be "as Oni are"
<!--QuoteBegin--severijn+Jan 10 2004, 06:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (severijn @ Jan 10 2004, 06:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The corerct one is "ones" or "onises" or even "onoses". As long as it ends on an -es. long live latin <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Latin is Dead.
<!--QuoteBegin--AoF.Palin+Jan 10 2004, 04:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (AoF.Palin @ Jan 10 2004, 04:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Cxwf+Jan 10 2004, 02:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cxwf @ Jan 10 2004, 02:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> When I started reading this, Oni was winning by 6 whole votes! Which I gather is fairly significant for this poll. But while I was trudging through 26 pages of Oni deliberations, Onos got another three votes.
Anytime I have a few seconds to think clearly, which includes any time I type, I use Oni. But if I'm running down a hall and all of a sudden two Oni jump out at me (any more and I couldn't see them anyway, as Onos are still good at blocking vision if nothing else), I'm liable to just yell "Several Onos approaching base!" through voice com. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> heh... seems like you have your grammar backwards... "two Oni" should be "two Onos" and "as Onos are" should be "as Oni are"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Well ( if I understand what you're saying correctly), you don't say "two dog" or "two cat"...
<!--QuoteBegin--Daxx22+Jan 10 2004, 05:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Daxx22 @ Jan 10 2004, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> How can this poll with nearly 800(!?!) replys still be only 2 off?! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> See kids?
<!--QuoteBegin--Nemesis Zero+Jan 6 2004, 05:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nemesis Zero @ Jan 6 2004, 05:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Quite a close race we have there...
Go, Oni! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Dahm you old europeans!!
I before E except after C, fools! You might say that onos belongs to another language, but what language is it, when then ending -os turns into -ii or -i? Flayra language might just count as a valid answer
OH NOS! LOOK OUT FOR THE: Skulki? Gorgei? Lerki? Fadeii?
HMGi? Shotguni? Marinei?
No?
What make's the onos different? It's bigger, so it deserves an 'I'? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just because it's an alien, does not make grammer rules null for it.
And just cause it sounds 'cool' doesn't mean it should be done. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Everything considered, I assume this poll shows both are valid.
Oh, and as for the grammar mongers we have on both side of the fences, language is purely a product of popular consensus, no matter what some english books author might say.
<!--QuoteBegin--NGE+Jan 10 2004, 05:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (NGE @ Jan 10 2004, 05:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Does anyone here say-
OH NOS! LOOK OUT FOR THE: Skulki? Gorgei? Lerki? Fadeii?
HMGi? Shotguni? Marinei?
No?
What make's the onos different? It's bigger, so it deserves an 'I'? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just because it's an alien, does not make grammer rules null for it.
And just cause it sounds 'cool' doesn't mean it should be done. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> ...those are terrible, terrible examples, even though I dont even say oni...it's just...sigh
it comes from people thinking onos is treated like singular latin masculine words that have been added to the english language...for instance, octopus and octopi...but it only applies to the -us, and not -os, therefor oni is purely for the "sounding cool" aspect...as you said
Comments
Top marks that man.
Whupsiequrgle hamgaphot ei tusma!
onos is grammatically correct, and oni isnt.
or
"Look out for the elephants!"
I didnt see them in the options <!--emo&:angry:--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/mad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='mad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Its a made up word. So what if its grammatically incorrect? So is half the english language. Its supposed to be the hardest language in the world to learn coz of all the dodgy grammar, and the fact that only half the words in it actually follow a set pattern - everything from plurals to pronunciations...
I say that if Flayra wants to call it Onii, let it be so. If he wants to call it an Onos, then thou will willst be done <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
But, its blatently Onii/Oni. <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
onos is grammatically correct, and oni isnt. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see Onos in the dictionary, with the definition of "Large, cow-like alien in Natural Selection". Besides, Kharaa isn't English, so what makes you think Onos is?
onos is grammatically correct, and oni isnt. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see Onos in the dictionary, with the definition of "Large, cow-like alien in Natural Selection". Besides, Kharaa isn't English, so what makes you think Onos is? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well, fade, skulk, and gorge are all english...Kharaa is one of the only words in the whole game derived from something other than english.
It's just that onos makes alot more sense, and there is more reason to say it that way.
If you check the plural of rhinoceros you will see that one of its plurals is in fact rhonoceri... thus the word does not have to end in '-us' in its singular form to end in '-i' in its plural.
And if you read my previous posts about grammar rules you will note that while onos is still a valid plural form, it is misused in the context of this poll and therefore the only correct answer is oni. Had the poll been phrased slightly better and an extra option for "Both" been given then "Both" would be the clear winner i imagine.
[EDIT] Before posting any more arguments based on grammar, know that I have an English Masters as a roommate and have been consulting him on the matter. If he's wrong by concensus then I feel for the future health of the English language as it means that other rediculous words may become legitimate in the future... like "teh" and "omg".
If you check the plural of rhinoceros you will see that one of its plurals is in fact rhonoceri... thus the word does not have to end in '-us' in its singular form to end in '-i' in its plural.
And if you read my previous posts about grammar rules you will note that while onos is still a valid plural form, it is misused in the context of this poll and therefore the only correct answer is oni. Had the poll been phrased slightly better and an extra option for "Both" been given then "Both" would be the clear winner i imagine.
[EDIT] Before posting any more arguments based on grammar, know that I have an English Masters as a roommate and have been consulting him on the matter. If he's wrong by concensus then I feel for the future health of the English language as it means that other rediculous words may become legitimate in the future... like "teh" and "omg". <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You are wrong.
Both Rhinoceroses is becoming more accepted over Rhinoceri in dictionaries.
Both Rhinoceroses is becoming more accepted over Rhinoceri in dictionaries. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
First, I don't trust many dictionaries for judging grammatical correctness. They are used for the sole purpose of finding definitions / spellings of a word that you are concerned about.
Second, Dictionaries are rarely a definitive source on ALL forms of a word. Forms of a word are generated by the grammar context the word is found, not by "well there is only one plural form so it must be correct" because in many instances even "made up" words (and this happens often in literary works and journals) are more "correct" than established words.
My roomate goes on to say that there are thousands of words that we are taught having only one singular and one plural form that actually have upwards to 8 technical plural forms though some forms overlap.
Thirdly, if I understand that you meant "Both Rhinoceroses" to be correct then I would agree as Both is an absolute adjective as opposed to an ambiguous adjective. Rhinoceri in that case would be wrong.
Finally, we just called up two of his professors and they both agree with the verdict that while both onos and oni are valid plural forms, Oni is the correct form for this context.
[EDIT] my roommate told me to tell you guys that using "correct" and "wrong" in these arguments is a mistake... and we should from now on use "preffered" and "not preffered" as there is technically no such thing as "correct" in English
Anytime I have a few seconds to think clearly, which includes any time I type, I use Oni. But if I'm running down a hall and all of a sudden two Oni jump out at me (any more and I couldn't see them anyway, as Onos are still good at blocking vision if nothing else), I'm liable to just yell "Several Onos approaching base!" through voice com.
GO
Anytime I have a few seconds to think clearly, which includes any time I type, I use Oni. But if I'm running down a hall and all of a sudden two Oni jump out at me (any more and I couldn't see them anyway, as Onos are still good at blocking vision if nothing else), I'm liable to just yell "Several Onos approaching base!" through voice com. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh... seems like you have your grammar backwards... "two Oni" should be "two Onos" and "as Onos are" should be "as Oni are"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Latin is Dead.
Anytime I have a few seconds to think clearly, which includes any time I type, I use Oni. But if I'm running down a hall and all of a sudden two Oni jump out at me (any more and I couldn't see them anyway, as Onos are still good at blocking vision if nothing else), I'm liable to just yell "Several Onos approaching base!" through voice com. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh... seems like you have your grammar backwards... "two Oni" should be "two Onos" and "as Onos are" should be "as Oni are"
<!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well ( if I understand what you're saying correctly), you don't say "two dog" or "two cat"...
See kids?
Who says your vote doesn't count.
Go, Oni! <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dahm you old europeans!!
EDIT:: 50/50 OMG!!
Edit: <b>Woo a draw, lets keep it this way</b>
OH NOS! LOOK OUT FOR THE:
Skulki?
Gorgei?
Lerki?
Fadeii?
HMGi?
Shotguni?
Marinei?
No?
What make's the onos different? It's bigger, so it deserves an 'I'? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just because it's an alien, does not make grammer rules null for it.
And just cause it sounds 'cool' doesn't mean it should be done. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, and as for the grammar mongers we have on both side of the fences, language is purely a product of popular consensus, no matter what some english books author might say.
OH NOS! LOOK OUT FOR THE:
Skulki?
Gorgei?
Lerki?
Fadeii?
HMGi?
Shotguni?
Marinei?
No?
What make's the onos different? It's bigger, so it deserves an 'I'? <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
Just because it's an alien, does not make grammer rules null for it.
And just cause it sounds 'cool' doesn't mean it should be done. <!--emo&::marine::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/marine.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='marine.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
...those are terrible, terrible examples, even though I dont even say oni...it's just...sigh
it comes from people thinking onos is treated like singular latin masculine words that have been added to the english language...for instance, octopus and octopi...but it only applies to the -us, and not -os, therefor oni is purely for the "sounding cool" aspect...as you said