TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Heh. ShieldsUp! can't even see that there's a computer where I'm accessing it from. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Everything shows up as 'DEAD'. The strength of a good Linux NAT: You *can* be invisible on the web.
And BM, Linux requires at least a 486 (preferably DX, not SX, for the FPU coprocessor.. though not required). A 286 doesn't have the CPU extensions that the kernel requires.
You get what you pay for, regardless. I personally recommend using a good hardware solution, which costs less than software, is more reliable, and doesn't waste any computing power. I use an MS Basestation, and unlike Tal, I'm not wasting enormous amounts of precious electricity running an entire PC. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Pssh. My P-233 is using less power than a single light bulb. The part that eats electricity is the monitor. Which I don't need to have turned on, thanks to the fact that I don't need to worry about it crashing, like *ahem* <i>some</i> products. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Cereal_KillR+Jan 4 2004, 02:10 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Cereal_KillR @ Jan 4 2004, 02:10 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--XeroSlayer+Jan 4 2004, 07:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (XeroSlayer @ Jan 4 2004, 07:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><a href='http://blackice.iss.net/' target='_blank'>BlackIce?</a> I don't know if it's free though...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+ Before anyone else posted--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Before anyone else posted)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And no, before anyone suggests it, BlackIce Defender is one of the WORST things you can do. It lights you up like a christmas tree... essentially telling the outside world that you're vulnerable to EVERY exploit under the sun, while blocking most of them. Problem is... most. Eventually, someone will find one that BID missed, and you'll be up **** creek in an innertube, headfirst. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, wooooooooops XD
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Pssh. My P-233 is using less power than a single light bulb. The part that eats electricity is the monitor. Which I don't need to have turned on, thanks to the fact that I don't need to worry about it crashing, like *ahem* some products. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I have never had my MS hardware router/firewall crash or in fact be powered off, ever. I can guarantee your linux machine does not have a perfect uptime record for the past year and a half (nor provided a WAP and four CAT-5 ports <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) like my device. And I guarantee, 100%, unequivically, that its simple solid-state board-based construction uses far less power than your 233. Say a $1,000,000 bet? I take Visa and Mastercard. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
edited January 2004
I don't tend to bet, though I'd agree that yours does use less power, with the simple lack of a fan. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> And you're right... mine doesn't have WAP, as I didn't spend on a WANIC for it. Though it does provide six /discrete/ 10/100B-T connections, all of which are individually assignable and quarantinable, or able to be bridged as I see fit. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Uptime is 'between power outages'. Last time it was turned off, it had over a 300-day uptime.. and only died because I tried to heat a burrito in the microwave while my space heater was turned on. :b
Though I'm curious... most 'solid state' devices actually run embedded Linux... I haven't seen a Windows OS derivative that can deal with embedded systems... not even Win-PocketPC. You might want to check and see if it's using iptables to handle its routing system. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Windows CE. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--> <a href='http://download.microsoft.com/download/B/6/9/B69C956C-85D9-4641-AA6F-1548391E0967/MN-700FY04.pdf' target='_blank'>http://download.microsoft.com/download/B/6.../MN-700FY04.pdf</a>
As for it providing 6 connections, each of those cost nearly as much as my whole device: Your 'free software' requires a lot more expensive hardware to do less work than my teeny router, and as you admit, is not a WAP. Such is the life of a Linux geek - spending weeks and money to sort of duplicate a simple solid-state device, then spending more money to power it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Too bad 300 days isn't 500 days, I'd be impressed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And you apparently have never worked on the many Windows-CE powered embedded devices like thin client terminals, IPAQ's, or a host of other solid state computers. Ya nubcaek!
We offtopic enough yet? Oh well, the guy had his post answered hours ago. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Yeah....I uh, am Just using sygate for the 30 days then buying a lisence <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
TalesinOur own little well of hateJoin Date: 2002-11-08Member: 7710NS1 Playtester, Forum Moderators
Not really, as all of my hardware is scrounged/freely salvaged. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> So mine cost less, and can accomplish more. I suppose it's a question of if you need a little box to get 'your internet', or if you need actual functionality. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
As to embedded systems, the company I'm employed by actually shelled out for myself and a coworker to put together a fully solid-state box to deal with conventions and trade shows. The Arenda Hissorikaze... easily beefy enough to deal with ten gigabit NICs, two local fiber connections, three T1s, and an OC48 all running at top throughput. Cut it down to the NICs, and it could probably handle an OC192 just fine. ^_^ Not single-PCB, but close enough.
Believe me.. there's a reason it's called WinCE. I've been attempting to purge my mind of its horror, and had almost succeeded. Thanks for reminding me and wasting about seven months.
Not to distract MonsE and Tal's from each others OS Throats but my hardware firewall in my router makes me compleetely invisible to all the ShieldsUp! tests, therefore, buy a D-Link Router with inbuilt DSL modem o;
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Jan 5 2004, 01:43 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jan 5 2004, 01:43 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Not really, as all of my hardware is scrounged/freely salvaged. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> So mine cost less, and can accomplish more. I suppose it's a question of if you need a little box to get 'your internet', or if you need actual functionality. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
As to embedded systems, the company I'm employed by actually shelled out for myself and a coworker to put together a fully solid-state box to deal with conventions and trade shows. The Arenda Hissorikaze... easily beefy enough to deal with ten gigabit NICs, two local fiber connections, three T1s, and an OC48 all running at top throughput. Cut it down to the NICs, and it could probably handle an OC192 just fine. ^_^ Not single-PCB, but close enough.
Believe me.. there's a reason it's called WinCE. I've been attempting to purge my mind of its horror, and had almost succeeded. Thanks for reminding me and wasting about seven months. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Not until you're a WAP, it doesn't accomplish more. And by scrounged, I guess that's leet for 'stolen from work'? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
WinCE/PocketPC is an awesome embedded OS. If you'd ever worked on thin client computing on a large scale (over 5000 devices) and you had to support absolutely craptastic IBM linux-powered thin clients versus fantastic Wyse CE-powered ones, you'd know. There's a reason that you can buy dozens of excellent CE-powered handhelds as well, even though linux would cost the manufacturers far less. Well, unless it was Redhat, who charges more than MS these days for corporate OS licensing. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Don't base your entire experience of an OS on one 3rd-party vendor's bad implementation. Linux myopia will blind you if you let it...
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Jan 4 2004, 09:43 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jan 4 2004, 09:43 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Heh. ShieldsUp! can't even see that there's a computer where I'm accessing it from. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Everything shows up as 'DEAD'. The strength of a good Linux NAT: You *can* be invisible on the web.
And BM, Linux requires at least a 486 (preferably DX, not SX, for the FPU coprocessor.. though not required). A 286 doesn't have the CPU extensions that the kernel requires. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> heh, i have a 486 dx ... 2 i think lying around in my basement too ...
so, where is this software? (and would it be possible to hook 2-3 computers up to it? i think i have enough pci slots left over
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+Jan 4 2004, 10:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Jan 4 2004, 10:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Which I don't need to have turned on, thanks to the fact that I don't need to worry about it crashing, like *ahem* <i>some</i> products. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Where MonsE comes from, them's fightin' words, boy.
Comments
I've only tried zone alarm and after having that installed on my computer for 10 min, I dont think i'll ever get a firewall again.
And BM, Linux requires at least a 486 (preferably DX, not SX, for the FPU coprocessor.. though not required). A 286 doesn't have the CPU extensions that the kernel requires.
I don't know if it's free though...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Talesin+ Before anyone else posted--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Talesin @ Before anyone else posted)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->And no, before anyone suggests it, BlackIce Defender is one of the WORST things you can do. It lights you up like a christmas tree... essentially telling the outside world that you're vulnerable to EVERY exploit under the sun, while blocking most of them. Problem is... most. Eventually, someone will find one that BID missed, and you'll be up **** creek in an innertube, headfirst. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, wooooooooops XD
I have never had my MS hardware router/firewall crash or in fact be powered off, ever. I can guarantee your linux machine does not have a perfect uptime record for the past year and a half (nor provided a WAP and four CAT-5 ports <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) like my device. And I guarantee, 100%, unequivically, that its simple solid-state board-based construction uses far less power than your 233. Say a $1,000,000 bet? I take Visa and Mastercard. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Uptime is 'between power outages'. Last time it was turned off, it had over a 300-day uptime.. and only died because I tried to heat a burrito in the microwave while my space heater was turned on. :b
Though I'm curious... most 'solid state' devices actually run embedded Linux... I haven't seen a Windows OS derivative that can deal with embedded systems... not even Win-PocketPC. You might want to check and see if it's using iptables to handle its routing system. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
As for it providing 6 connections, each of those cost nearly as much as my whole device: Your 'free software' requires a lot more expensive hardware to do less work than my teeny router, and as you admit, is not a WAP. Such is the life of a Linux geek - spending weeks and money to sort of duplicate a simple solid-state device, then spending more money to power it. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Too bad 300 days isn't 500 days, I'd be impressed. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
And you apparently have never worked on the many Windows-CE powered embedded devices like thin client terminals, IPAQ's, or a host of other solid state computers. Ya nubcaek!
We offtopic enough yet? Oh well, the guy had his post answered hours ago. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
As to embedded systems, the company I'm employed by actually shelled out for myself and a coworker to put together a fully solid-state box to deal with conventions and trade shows. The Arenda Hissorikaze... easily beefy enough to deal with ten gigabit NICs, two local fiber connections, three T1s, and an OC48 all running at top throughput. Cut it down to the NICs, and it could probably handle an OC192 just fine. ^_^ Not single-PCB, but close enough.
Believe me.. there's a reason it's called WinCE. I've been attempting to purge my mind of its horror, and had almost succeeded. Thanks for reminding me and wasting about seven months.
<a href='http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpost/' target='_blank'>http://www.agnitum.com/products/outpost/</a>
There's a free version that has less features but its an excellent piece of software that I highly recommend.
As to embedded systems, the company I'm employed by actually shelled out for myself and a coworker to put together a fully solid-state box to deal with conventions and trade shows. The Arenda Hissorikaze... easily beefy enough to deal with ten gigabit NICs, two local fiber connections, three T1s, and an OC48 all running at top throughput. Cut it down to the NICs, and it could probably handle an OC192 just fine. ^_^ Not single-PCB, but close enough.
Believe me.. there's a reason it's called WinCE. I've been attempting to purge my mind of its horror, and had almost succeeded. Thanks for reminding me and wasting about seven months. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not until you're a WAP, it doesn't accomplish more. And by scrounged, I guess that's leet for 'stolen from work'? <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
WinCE/PocketPC is an awesome embedded OS. If you'd ever worked on thin client computing on a large scale (over 5000 devices) and you had to support absolutely craptastic IBM linux-powered thin clients versus fantastic Wyse CE-powered ones, you'd know. There's a reason that you can buy dozens of excellent CE-powered handhelds as well, even though linux would cost the manufacturers far less. Well, unless it was Redhat, who charges more than MS these days for corporate OS licensing. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> Don't base your entire experience of an OS on one 3rd-party vendor's bad implementation. Linux myopia will blind you if you let it...
And BM, Linux requires at least a 486 (preferably DX, not SX, for the FPU coprocessor.. though not required). A 286 doesn't have the CPU extensions that the kernel requires. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
heh, i have a 486 dx ... 2 i think lying around in my basement too ...
so, where is this software? (and would it be possible to hook 2-3 computers up to it? i think i have enough pci slots left over
Where MonsE comes from, them's fightin' words, boy.