The Absotively Posilutely Ginormous Sun Tzu Thread
Niteowl
Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-09-04 Member: 1274Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">sorry for the previous spam</div> The Absotively Posilutely GINORMOUS Sun Tzu Thread
Sun Tzu Art of War
<a href='http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html#02' target='_blank'>http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html#02</a>
This is part 1 in on going series I'll post from Sun Tzu's Art of War, you can read it in it's entirety from the link above.
I'm just tired of reading everyone quote him, or tell ppl who want to learn how to comm to read him, without specific examples. I've gleaned through the text, found points that can be applied to NS, then commented in white.
Ok, in the beginning, i posted just a bunch of new threads, each on a new chapter, since i thought it's be easy to read. But alas, you NS forumites asked for one massive post, so here it is. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why, you ask? Because it's the Fogey way (Old Fogies, see my sig), we are incorrigible in our theorycraft, even if our actual play is much in wanting <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
and if you are going to flame, please don't post. dont' flame that i should have broken it up, don't flame that i have too much tim on my hands. if you appreciate it, please post. i don't assume that forumites actually read this or enjoyed it. i mostly read ppl being not entirely considerate.
enjoy, and comment <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
I. LAYING PLANS
9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,
sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.
<span style='color:white'>particularly benevolence and strictness are important in pubs. praise when they do well, do not berate too much if they fall to skulks, a chastened rine is not in high spirits to assault the kharaa. strictness is important in following orders to the letter. </span>
10. By method and discipline are to be understood
the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions,
the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance
of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the
control of military expenditure.
<span style='color:white'>have a good set of squads for particular purposes, of which they know. know which rines you can trust with leading squads, carrying shotties, gls, and the like. makes sure you have PGs to ensure healthy supply lines of rines. be judicious and prioritize your spending.</span>
16. While heading the profit of my counsel,
avail yourself also of any helpful circumstances
over and beyond the ordinary rules.
<span style='color:white'>be flexible in taking GOOD advice from a rine. do not be so strict as to be "my way or the highway". you never know when a rine finds an opportune point for a siege or PG.</span>
18. All warfare is based on deception.
21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
If he is in superior strength, evade him.
<span style='color:white'>don't throw a an lmg/la at a group of fades</span>
22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to
irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
<span style='color:white'>never underestimate the complency that came come from 1v7 in the RT score</span>
23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
If his forces are united, separate them.
<span style='color:white'>if the aliens attempt a boom strat, shottie rush their rts. if the commander is dropping RTs everywhere and expanding quickly, skulk/gorge rush his base.</span>
24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
you are not expected.
<span style='color:white'>don't try attacking processing in ns_hera if it's been pushed away 20 times previously.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
II. WAGING WAR
5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,
cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
<span style='color:white'>hey, you don't need to do the shottie rush all the time, but don't dally in your action.</span>
15. Hence a wise general makes a point of foraging
on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy's provisions
is equivalent to twenty of one's own, and likewise
a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty
from one's own store.
<span style='color:white'>it's more important to kill one of their RTs and replace it with your own, than build an RT on an empty nozzle.</span>
16. Now in order to kill the enemy, our men must
be roused to anger; that there may be advantage from
defeating the enemy, they must have their rewards.
<span style='color:white'>reward good shooting, good discipline in following orders. get your rines into the spirit of the game, get them aggressive, attacking, esp if their previous comm was a Turret Farmer </span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
III. ATTACK BY STRATAGEM
2. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles
is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists
in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
<span style='color:white'>if you can assault all their RTs without them being fast enough to respond, and have them at 7v1 rts (assumin yer a rine) at 5 minutes, their spirit is usually broken.</span>
3. Thus the highest form of generalship is to
balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent
the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in
order is to attack the enemy's army in the field;
and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.
<span style='color:white'>
1) counter their first chamber
2) keep them moving all over the map, separated
3) attack them over RTs
4) have a protracted battle at hives</span>
5. The general, unable to control his irritation,
will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants,
with the result that one-third of his men are slain,
while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous
effects of a siege.
<span style='color:white'>do not have your marines try and say, lmg a hive with OC spam everhwere, even if you are fearing the xeno from three hives, or the stomp of 2. your desperation does not make the situation more tenable for victory</span>
11. Now the general is the bulwark of the State;
if the bulwark is complete at all points; the State will
be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the State will
be weak.
<span style='color:white'>a strong commander, assuming normal rines (there were no insubordinates in Sun Tzu's world, or at least, not that many, is the pillar of victory. obviously, if you have a bunch of great aiming, thoughtful rines, there is almost little need for a commander. but we are talking pubs ppl, with all their wonderful diversity </span>
13. (1) By commanding the army to advance or to retreat,
being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey.
This is called hobbling the army.
<span style='color:white'>be aware that those 2 marines you just told to get into the hive are being assaulted by a gorge, 3 skulks, and a fade.</span>
15. (3) By employing the officers of his army
without discrimination, through ignorance of the
military principle of adaptation to circumstances.
This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.
<span style='color:white'>be careful who you listen to. don't bend to the will of the most annoying <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> the majority of the quiet marines who have been following orders to a tee will become disgruntled.</span>
16. But when the army is restless and distrustful,
trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes.
This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging
victory away.
<span style='color:white'>if, on a server, you feel the ill of your rines, give up the cc, commanders from the ground are sure to tear you down eventually :S</span>
17. Thus we may know that there are five essentials
for victory:
(1) He will win who knows when to fight and when
not to fight.
(2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior
and inferior forces.
(3) He will win whose army is animated by the same
spirit throughout all its ranks.
(4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take
the enemy unprepared.
(5) He will win who has military capacity and is
not interfered with by the sovereign.
<span style='color:white'>
1) choose your fights, dont' be so quick to give the aliens RFK
2) be careful to choose the right tech for the right enemy, drop shotties for fades, not MT
3) good morale in the rines is great for you. do what you can to foster it.
4) obviously
5) dont' play on a server with a mean and or biases server admin <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
18. Hence the saying: If you know the enemy
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle.
<span style='color:white'>
-know your own strengths and weaknesses as well as of the enemy
-if you have excellent intel but are blind to your own errors (too much medspam, tfarming everywhere, not getting upgrades for the rines until the 20 minute mark, never getting phases in a long game, etc etc) then yer batting 500 my friend
-if you are ignorant in both matters, and do not take efforts to learn (blame the rines, always say teh aliens are stacking, not asking for, nor listening to constructive criticism) yer toast.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
IV. TACTICAL DISPOSITIONS
1. Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put
themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then
waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>ambush when a skulk, hold a long hallway or open room when a rine. be patient.</span>
2. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our
own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy
is provided by the enemy himself.
<span style='color:white'>you can only attack effectively in counter to a tech tree that the opponent has chosen. to just go up a tech tree without thought of what you are countering is a fool's path.</span>
7. The general who is skilled in defense hides in the
most secret recesses of the earth; he who is skilled in
attack flashes forth from the topmost heights of heaven.
Thus on the one hand we have ability to protect ourselves;
on the other, a victory that is complete.
<span style='color:white'>you can interprete this as you will, but for me this says, to attack is victory, to defend is not to lose (but in NS, that is, to lose eventually)</span>
10. To lift an autumn hair is no sign of great strength;
to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight;
to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear.
<span style='color:white'>one must think deeply about a strategem one is to employ. sometimes the subtle plan works best, the more clever, than the brute attack.</span>
20. The onrush of a conquering force is like the bursting
of pent-up waters into a chasm a thousand fathoms deep.
<span style='color:white'>when one attacks, it's important to attack with all your might. rally your kharaa brethern, and attack all at once with a stomping onos, a multitude of skulks, and a gorge in the background. rather than going in one by one. </span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
V. ENERGY
3. To ensure that your whole host may withstand
the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken--
this is effected by maneuvers direct and indirect.
<span style='color:white'>here, host means army, IIRC. learn what to attack and when to be cautious. gl spam around a corner is a much better option than directly assaulting 2 stomping onii and a WOL. however, 3 hmg/ha assault is much better on an onii who has just devoured and is running away with a a heavy than tossing grenades it's way.</span>
5. In all fighting, the direct method may be used
for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed
in order to secure victory.
<span style='color:white'>hehe, often times, siege is necessary . i take direct methods as, your rines. indirect as static defense. seems to make sense <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
14. Therefore the good fighter will be terrible
in his onset, and prompt in his decision.
<span style='color:white'>when you attack an important target, must as much as your forces together. make clear your decision, and get them to go. do not dally in whether to attack or not. decide, then act. quickly. </span>
20. By holding out baits, he keeps him on the march;
then with a body of picked men he lies in wait for him.
<span style='color:white'>try to bait a group of rines with a gorge with several skulks ready for some tasty rfk. if feasible, bait an onos with a ha (no heavy weapon) with hmgers ready to take down that 100 rez beast <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
21. The clever combatant looks to the effect of combined
energy, and does not require too much from individuals.
Hence his ability to pick out the right men and utilize
combined energy.
<span style='color:white'>try to attack together, and hopefully with combined arms. do not rely and or hope for that elite rambo to help pull out wins</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
VI. WEAK POINTS AND STRONG
1. Sun Tzu said: Whoever is first in the field and
awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight;
whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle
will arrive exhausted.
<span style='color:white'>move your rines out QUICKLY. both rines and kharaa are much stronger holding and or ambushing from a position than entering it.</span>
2. Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on
the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
<span style='color:white'>see next point. i see this mainly pertainting to attacking. but i'm sure someone can think of when defending can do this. in one on one, la vs skulk, this makes sense in defensive positioning. force the skulk/rine to come to you. but in general strategy, you, in general, want them to respond to your action.</span>
3. By holding out advantages to him, he can cause the enemy
to approach of his own accord; or, by inflicting damage,
he can make it impossible for the enemy to draw near.
<span style='color:white'>attack, attack attack. have them react and you will always be free to act.often makes it very difficult for the kharaa to rally their forces to counterattack if they are constantly worried about assault.</span>
5. Appear at points which the enemy must hasten to defend;
march swiftly to places where you are not expected.
<span style='color:white'>when you decide on a poitn to get to and capitalize on, move QUICKLY, dont' get bogged down by a pesky lerk, a tempting gorge, a bulbous RT, or the siren call of getting full ammo.</span>
6. An army may march great distances without distress,
if it marches through country where the enemy is not.
<span style='color:white'>try moving around strongholds and points of great allied loss</span>
7. You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks
if you only attack places which are undefended.You can
ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold
positions that cannot be attacked.
<span style='color:white'>shotgunning the first hive is usually an easier task than taking down the 2nd, usually OC'ed hive. taking down an RT far from their hive is usualy easier to do than taking the RT JUST outside their base/hive.</span>
10. You may advance and be absolutely irresistible,
if you make for the enemy's weak points; you may retire
and be safe from pursuit if your movements are more rapid
than those of the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>attack where they have not a WOL, attack their hive when they are not near a mvmt chamber. attack their base when their heavy train is moving from the PG.</span>
17. For should the enemy strengthen his van,
he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear,
he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left,
he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right,
he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere,
he will everywhere be weak.
<span style='color:white'>be careful on what you choose to reinforce and how much, that is money that is not being spend defending another area, or upgrades not researched, or weapons not bought.so to when you WOL what you think is a chokepoint, have you considered the assault from jetpacks?</span>
23. Rouse him, and learn the principle of his
activity or inactivity. Force him to reveal himself,
so as to find out his vulnerable spots.
<span style='color:white'>why the HECK have we not seen any hide nor hair of rines for the last 5 minutes/?! find out. and quick. is it a train push? a jetpack assault, a sneak siege?</span>
24. Carefully compare the opposing army with your own,
so that you may know where strength is superabundant
and where it is deficient.
<span style='color:white'>is all that rez that the aliens have being spendon WOLs? hoarded into higher lifeforms? are there just a buncha rez **** there? do they enjoy attacking in number?does your particular team excel in all ramboing and keeping their spawn cue massive?</span>
28. Do not repeat the tactics which have gained
you one victory, but let your methods be regulated
by the infinite variety of circumstances.
<span style='color:white'>in two words "forget processing" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> hehe try and mix it up. esp if the aliens know yer strats <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
30. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong
and to strike at what is weak.
<span style='color:white'>attack the hive that is least defended, corner that onos by himself and focus all firepower upon it (imho, a single onos can be MUCH weaker than a group fo skulks and gorges), siege out a OC spammed area, etc.</span>
31. Water shapes its course according to the nature
of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works
out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.
<span style='color:white'>be able to counter and understand what your enemy is doing. </span>
32. Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape,
so in warfare there are no constant conditions.
<span style='color:white'>jeet kune do, be flexible as water and all that jazz </span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
VII. MANEUVERING
2. Having collected an army and concentrated his forces,
he must blend and harmonize the different elements thereof
before pitching his camp.
<span style='color:white'>drop some hmgs and gl in that mix of ha/sg, you'll be happy you did. if you can, a few JP for PG setup and mainting your RT network is great </span>
11. We may take it then that an army without its
baggage-train is lost; without provisions it is lost;
without bases of supply it is lost.
<span style='color:white'>PG are incredibly important, rines are slower than molasses in a honeypot on a december morning. you need to maintain a good network of pgs. so to, RTs are THE most important thing. most of the time, you should seize an opportunity to drop an rt in place of an alien one. an unelectrified RT pays itself off quite quickly.</span>
13. We are not fit to lead an army on the march
unless we are familiar with the face of the country--its
mountains and forests, its pitfalls and precipices,
its marshes and swamps.
<span style='color:white'>you POSITIVELY, ABSOLUTELY, HAVE to know the map you are comming. you must know wehre the lerks will hit you from, where the gorges hide, where the skulks ambush from. where to siege from. otherwise, you 'are not fit to lead an army' <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (i.e. you CANNOT siege Waste hive in ns_tanith from Research Labs)</span>
16. Whether to concentrate or to divide your troops,
must be decided by circumstances.
<span style='color:white'>sometimes i'ts necessary to have a group guarding your phase network to fendo ff the odd rush. sometimes the alien team is coherent in it's defense, and you need all guns trained on one objective.</span>
17. Let your rapidity be that of the wind,
your compactness that of the forest.
<span style='color:white'>comm faster, move your men faster, keep them in groups, for the love of Flayra <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
19. Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night,
and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
<span style='color:white'>attempt to keep your main tech tree and approach from your opponent. dont' leap until you absolutely have to, don't go around bilebombing for the sake of it </span>
24. Gongs and drums, banners and flags, are means
whereby the ears and eyes of the host may be focused
on one particular point.
<span style='color:white'>USE WAYPOINTS. 90% chance that you will have rines who have NO idea where steam generation is. use waypoints, reinforce over voice comm what they are doing, where they are going, what the gameplan is.</span>
26. In night-fighting, then, make much use of signal-fires
and drums, and in fighting by day, of flags and banners,
as a means of influencing the ears and eyes of your army.
<span style='color:white'>ping early and often if they have sense up.</span>
28. Now a soldier's spirit is keenest in the morning;
by noonday it has begun to flag; and in the evening,
his mind is bent only on returning to camp.
<span style='color:white'>have your rines out and kiling stuff early, it gets them going. wait too long, and they are bound to get defeatest and not want to try for fear of an embarassing loss</span>
33. It is a military axiom not to advance uphill
against the enemy, nor to oppose him when he comes downhill.
<span style='color:white'>don't throw skulk after skulk against a heavy train that is just going to get rfk, do not send lmger's singly against a massive WOL</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
VIII. VARIATION IN TACTICS
2. When in difficult country, do not encamp. In country
where high roads intersect, join hands with your allies.
Do not linger in dangerously isolated positions.
In hemmed-in situations, you must resort to stratagem.
In desperate position, you must fight.
<span style='color:white'>don't be camping in cramped areas and or areas where skulks will feast on yer rines and lerks will gas em</span>
7. Hence in the wise leader's plans, considerations of
advantage and of disadvantage will be blended together.
<span style='color:white'>often times, i see comms only see the upside of a situation, and miss planning for the downside. if you sg push on their rts, have you taken into consideration rudimentary base defense (actually, i mess up in this particular way often)?</span>
12. There are five dangerous faults which may affect
a general:
(1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction;
(2) cowardice, which leads to capture;
(3) a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults;
(4) a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame;
(5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him
to worry and trouble.
<span style='color:white'>
1) pushing without thought of defense
2) letting your rines fall on their haunches, and get killed one by one by CCs, as opposed to attacking together forthrightly, which would lead to zero casualties
3) commophobia
4) it's ok for that LMG/LA rine in the middle of nowhere to die. you won't be able to afford to save him, and cannot afford to disrupt your attention.
</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
IX. THE ARMY ON THE MARCH
7. In crossing salt-marshes, your sole concern
should be to get over them quickly, without any delay.
<span style='color:white'>in cramped, skulk fest areas, get yer rines MOVING, dont' group them up there, or otherwise slow their movements</span>
9. In dry, level country, take up an easily accessible
position with rising ground to your right and on your rear,
so that the danger may be in front, and safety lie behind.
So much for campaigning in flat country.
<span style='color:white'>go for wide open areas, and hold them.</span>
15. Country in which there are precipitous cliffs
with torrents running between, deep natural hollows,
confined places, tangled thickets, quagmires and crevasses,
should be left with all possible speed and not approached.
<span style='color:white'>see 7. don't go through a nasty area if you can help it</span>
17. If in the neighborhood of your camp there should
be any hilly country, ponds surrounded by aquatic grass,
hollow basins filled with reeds, or woods with thick
undergrowth, they must be carefully routed out and searched;
for these are places where men in ambush or insidious
spies are likely to be lurking.
<span style='color:white'>when guiding yer rines through an area, be aware of nasty overhangs, places where skulks enjoy ambushing from. be ready to warn your men and get them aware.</span>
22. The rising of birds in their flight is the sign
of an ambuscade. Startled beasts indicate that a sudden
attack is coming.
<span style='color:white'>watch for turret fire, it can be a great sentry to warn you of problems coming.</span>
29. When the soldiers stand leaning on their spears,
they are faint from want of food.
<span style='color:white'>med pack your rines when they are important positions </span>
42. If soldiers are punished before they have grown
attached to you, they will not prove submissive; and,
unless submissive, then will be practically useless.
If, when the soldiers have become attached to you,
punishments are not enforced, they will still be useless.
<span style='color:white'>be nice to them before you get badass. rapport with your rines is crucial.</span>
43. Therefore soldiers must be treated in the first
instance with humanity, but kept under control by means
of iron discipline. This is a certain road to victory.
<span style='color:white'>when you do have rapport, keep them on direct orders and always knowing what's gonig on. it's more of keeping them on task, good rines like to be on task ;D</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
X. TERRAIN
1. Sun Tzu said: We may distinguish six kinds of terrain,
to wit: (1) Accessible ground; (2) entangling ground;
(3) temporizing ground; (4) narrow passes; (5) precipitous
heights; (6) positions at a great distance from the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>[/COLOR]
2. Ground which can be freely traversed by both sides
is called accessible.
[COLOR=white]</span>
3. With regard to ground of this nature, be before
the enemy in occupying the raised and sunny spots,
and carefully guard your line of supplies. Then you
will be able to fight with advantage.
<span style='color:white'>make sure thre are armories in firebases, points of contention. you dont' want them phasing back and forth. stay up front and vigilant is best for consistent pressure.</span>
7. In a position of this sort, even though the enemy
should offer us an attractive bait, it will be advisable
not to stir forth, but rather to retreat, thus enticing
the enemy in his turn; then, when part of his army has
come out, we may deliver our attack with advantage.
<span style='color:white'>never attack where the particular alien life form has advantage. (i.e. don't have your shottie LA rines try and attack lerks in Refinery Hive of bast, don't have your heavies attack stomping onii in a tight corridor where they can't escape and create distance between each other.</span>
8. With regard to narrow passes, if you can occupy
them first, let them be strongly garrisoned and await
the advent of the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>get to a narrow hallway first and camp it.</span>
11. If the enemy has occupied them before you,
do not follow him, but retreat and try to entice him away.
<span style='color:white'>la/lmg rines and skulks are much better at a force attacking it and ambushing, than attacking a dug in position.</span>
14. Now an army is exposed to six several calamities,
not arising from natural causes, but from faults
for which the general is responsible. These are:
(1) Flight; (2) insubordination; (3) collapse; (4) ruin;
(5) disorganization; (6) rout.
16. When the common soldiers are too strong and
their officers too weak, the result is insubordination.
When the officers are too strong and the common soldiers
too weak, the result is collapse.
<span style='color:white'>actually, this is somewhat false in NS, if your rines are vet, and the comm takes orders from the ground, you'll be in good shape. but if you have a new comm who doesn't listen, the vets will greatly suffer. likewise, even the greatest strat relies on the rines to be able to kill SOME aliens.</span>
17. When the higher officers are angry and insubordinate,
and on meeting the enemy give battle on their own account
from a feeling of resentment, before the commander-in-chief
can tell whether or no he is in a position to fight,
the result is ruin.
<span style='color:white'>devoured heavies, attacking an RT in a key postion for PG, need i say more?</span>
18. When the general is weak and without authority;
when his orders are not clear and distinct; when there
are no fixes duties assigned to officers and men,
and the ranks are formed in a slovenly haphazard manner,
the result is utter disorganization.
<span style='color:white'>the ALL RAMBO NO STRAT strat is, given equal sides, mostly bad.</span>
24. The general who advances without coveting fame
and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only
thought is to protect his country and do good service
for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.
<span style='color:white'>try to comm without ego, that is, don't be so befuddled with your own rep as a comm that you don't seize an opportunity; or become cocky in your ability that you leave open assaults; likewise, attacking where your rines will not succeed unless they were several orders of magnitude better. some of the best comms i've chatted with have no ego about their comming, often, feel they are quite average.</span>
25. Regard your soldiers as your children, and they
will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them
as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you
even unto death.
<span style='color:white'>care about your rines, instill confidence.</span>
26. If, however, you are indulgent, but unable to make
your authority felt; kind-hearted, but unable to enforce
your commands; and incapable, moreover, of quelling disorder:
then your soldiers must be likened to spoilt children;
they are useless for any practical purpose.
<span style='color:white'>but, by the same token, dont' be a pushover, don't pander to your favorite rine or public outcry. don't comm by democracy.</span>
27. If we know that our own men are in a condition
to attack, but are unaware that the enemy is not open
to attack, we have gone only halfway towards victory.
<span style='color:white'>OH GREAT!! you got 5 shotties hittnig a hvie.. but you didn't check to see there are 8 ocs and dcs with all the skulks waiting for you.</span>
29. If we know that the enemy is open to attack,
and also know that our men are in a condition to attack,
but are unaware that the nature of the ground makes
fighting impracticable, we have still gone only halfway
towards victory.
<span style='color:white'>same as 27. be aware of both sides for optimum assault.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
XI. THE NINE SITUATIONS
19. Rapidity is the essence of war: take advantage of
the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes,
and attack unguarded spots.
<span style='color:white'>attack quickly, quickly quickly. obviously, attackwhere they don't suspect. that means if you fail at sieging one hive, shottie rush the other. hit rts far from hives, etc, etc. in addition, PGs are really essential as well, this is of course, the rapidity thing </span>
22. Carefully study the well-being of your men,
and do not overtax them. Concentrate your energy and hoard
your strength. Keep your army continually on the move,
and devise unfathomable plans.
<span style='color:white'>if you rines are moving well on the field, do everything in your power to keep them out there. drop an armory for them if you think they need shotties, get a PG there if they are dwindling in number. often, it's much better to have your rines as one cohesive force slicing through the map like a sword. manytimes, it more effective to hoard rez and kit everyone out as a heavy train at once.</span>
25. Thus, without waiting to be marshaled, the soldiers
will be constantly on the qui vive; without waiting to
be asked, they will do your will; without restrictions,
they will be faithful; without giving orders, they can
be trusted.
<span style='color:white'>this is what happens in a clan, or on a pub server with regs </span>
33. How to make the best of both strong and weak--that
is a question involving the proper use of ground.
<span style='color:white'>open areas, narrow hallways, rooms with few entrances, chokepoints.</span>
37. By altering his arrangements and changing
his plans, he keeps the enemy without definite knowledge.
By shifting his camp and taking circuitous routes,
he prevents the enemy from anticipating his purpose.
<span style='color:white'>playing it fast and loose with totally unexpected strats (early rt block strat with few ppl, for example, or rushing to a3 and sg)</span>
40. To muster his host and bring it into danger:--this
may be termed the business of the general.
<span style='color:white'>group your men, that's your JOB. get them organized, tell them to HOLD, group UP.</span>
59. For it is precisely when a force has fallen into
harm's way that is capable of striking a blow for victory.
<span style='color:white'>often times, having your squad hunt down an onos, or fade, or rush into ocs, is the best way to turn the tides.</span>
63. On the day that you take up your command,
block the frontier passes, destroy the official tallies,
and stop the passage of all emissaries.
<span style='color:white'>yeah, this is just to show some of the points that have NOTHING to do with NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
64. Be stern in the council-chamber, so that you
may control the situation.
<span style='color:white'>don't let the peanut gallery comm too much from the ground. this can result in confused marines moving where a ground comm says, or pushing when they shouldnt'</span>
65. If the enemy leaves a door open, you must rush in.
<span style='color:white'>grab opportunities quickly, this has been repeated ad nauseum.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
XII. THE ATTACK BY FIRE
9. (4) If it is possible to make an assault with fire
from without, do not wait for it to break out within,
but deliver your attack at a favorable moment.
<span style='color:white'>siege baby... siege.</span>
17. Move not unless you see an advantage; use not
your troops unless there is something to be gained;
fight not unless the position is critical.
<span style='color:white'>don't have your rines moving needlessly giving campnig skulks RFK. give them a purpose.</span>
18. No ruler should put troops into the field merely
to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight
a battle simply out of pique.
<span style='color:white'>see last point. this is only included cuz it talks about the spleen, which i found a knee slapper </span>
19. If it is to your advantage, make a forward move;
if not, stay where you are.
<span style='color:white'>this is included to show you what sort of silly silly obvious points are made as well in the great tome</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
XIII. THE USE OF SPIES
2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.
<span style='color:white'>scan when you can. intel is really really important. drop that jetpack for the good rine who can find out what's going on.</span>
3. One who acts thus is no leader of men, no present
help to his sovereign, no master of victory.
<span style='color:white'>dont' pay for intel? you ain't no comm buddy boy.</span>
4. Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good
general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond
the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge.
18. Be subtle! be subtle! and use your spies for every
kind of business.
<span style='color:white'>it's very useful to have marines report back important details, they have 2nd hive up, sense is their first chamber, gorge rush coming, etc, etc </span>
Sun Tzu Art of War
<a href='http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html#02' target='_blank'>http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html#02</a>
This is part 1 in on going series I'll post from Sun Tzu's Art of War, you can read it in it's entirety from the link above.
I'm just tired of reading everyone quote him, or tell ppl who want to learn how to comm to read him, without specific examples. I've gleaned through the text, found points that can be applied to NS, then commented in white.
Ok, in the beginning, i posted just a bunch of new threads, each on a new chapter, since i thought it's be easy to read. But alas, you NS forumites asked for one massive post, so here it is. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Why, you ask? Because it's the Fogey way (Old Fogies, see my sig), we are incorrigible in our theorycraft, even if our actual play is much in wanting <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
and if you are going to flame, please don't post. dont' flame that i should have broken it up, don't flame that i have too much tim on my hands. if you appreciate it, please post. i don't assume that forumites actually read this or enjoyed it. i mostly read ppl being not entirely considerate.
enjoy, and comment <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
I. LAYING PLANS
9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom,
sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.
<span style='color:white'>particularly benevolence and strictness are important in pubs. praise when they do well, do not berate too much if they fall to skulks, a chastened rine is not in high spirits to assault the kharaa. strictness is important in following orders to the letter. </span>
10. By method and discipline are to be understood
the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions,
the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance
of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the
control of military expenditure.
<span style='color:white'>have a good set of squads for particular purposes, of which they know. know which rines you can trust with leading squads, carrying shotties, gls, and the like. makes sure you have PGs to ensure healthy supply lines of rines. be judicious and prioritize your spending.</span>
16. While heading the profit of my counsel,
avail yourself also of any helpful circumstances
over and beyond the ordinary rules.
<span style='color:white'>be flexible in taking GOOD advice from a rine. do not be so strict as to be "my way or the highway". you never know when a rine finds an opportune point for a siege or PG.</span>
18. All warfare is based on deception.
21. If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him.
If he is in superior strength, evade him.
<span style='color:white'>don't throw a an lmg/la at a group of fades</span>
22. If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to
irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
<span style='color:white'>never underestimate the complency that came come from 1v7 in the RT score</span>
23. If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.
If his forces are united, separate them.
<span style='color:white'>if the aliens attempt a boom strat, shottie rush their rts. if the commander is dropping RTs everywhere and expanding quickly, skulk/gorge rush his base.</span>
24. Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where
you are not expected.
<span style='color:white'>don't try attacking processing in ns_hera if it's been pushed away 20 times previously.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
II. WAGING WAR
5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war,
cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.
<span style='color:white'>hey, you don't need to do the shottie rush all the time, but don't dally in your action.</span>
15. Hence a wise general makes a point of foraging
on the enemy. One cartload of the enemy's provisions
is equivalent to twenty of one's own, and likewise
a single picul of his provender is equivalent to twenty
from one's own store.
<span style='color:white'>it's more important to kill one of their RTs and replace it with your own, than build an RT on an empty nozzle.</span>
16. Now in order to kill the enemy, our men must
be roused to anger; that there may be advantage from
defeating the enemy, they must have their rewards.
<span style='color:white'>reward good shooting, good discipline in following orders. get your rines into the spirit of the game, get them aggressive, attacking, esp if their previous comm was a Turret Farmer </span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
III. ATTACK BY STRATAGEM
2. Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles
is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists
in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting.
<span style='color:white'>if you can assault all their RTs without them being fast enough to respond, and have them at 7v1 rts (assumin yer a rine) at 5 minutes, their spirit is usually broken.</span>
3. Thus the highest form of generalship is to
balk the enemy's plans; the next best is to prevent
the junction of the enemy's forces; the next in
order is to attack the enemy's army in the field;
and the worst policy of all is to besiege walled cities.
<span style='color:white'>
1) counter their first chamber
2) keep them moving all over the map, separated
3) attack them over RTs
4) have a protracted battle at hives</span>
5. The general, unable to control his irritation,
will launch his men to the assault like swarming ants,
with the result that one-third of his men are slain,
while the town still remains untaken. Such are the disastrous
effects of a siege.
<span style='color:white'>do not have your marines try and say, lmg a hive with OC spam everhwere, even if you are fearing the xeno from three hives, or the stomp of 2. your desperation does not make the situation more tenable for victory</span>
11. Now the general is the bulwark of the State;
if the bulwark is complete at all points; the State will
be strong; if the bulwark is defective, the State will
be weak.
<span style='color:white'>a strong commander, assuming normal rines (there were no insubordinates in Sun Tzu's world, or at least, not that many, is the pillar of victory. obviously, if you have a bunch of great aiming, thoughtful rines, there is almost little need for a commander. but we are talking pubs ppl, with all their wonderful diversity </span>
13. (1) By commanding the army to advance or to retreat,
being ignorant of the fact that it cannot obey.
This is called hobbling the army.
<span style='color:white'>be aware that those 2 marines you just told to get into the hive are being assaulted by a gorge, 3 skulks, and a fade.</span>
15. (3) By employing the officers of his army
without discrimination, through ignorance of the
military principle of adaptation to circumstances.
This shakes the confidence of the soldiers.
<span style='color:white'>be careful who you listen to. don't bend to the will of the most annoying <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> the majority of the quiet marines who have been following orders to a tee will become disgruntled.</span>
16. But when the army is restless and distrustful,
trouble is sure to come from the other feudal princes.
This is simply bringing anarchy into the army, and flinging
victory away.
<span style='color:white'>if, on a server, you feel the ill of your rines, give up the cc, commanders from the ground are sure to tear you down eventually :S</span>
17. Thus we may know that there are five essentials
for victory:
(1) He will win who knows when to fight and when
not to fight.
(2) He will win who knows how to handle both superior
and inferior forces.
(3) He will win whose army is animated by the same
spirit throughout all its ranks.
(4) He will win who, prepared himself, waits to take
the enemy unprepared.
(5) He will win who has military capacity and is
not interfered with by the sovereign.
<span style='color:white'>
1) choose your fights, dont' be so quick to give the aliens RFK
2) be careful to choose the right tech for the right enemy, drop shotties for fades, not MT
3) good morale in the rines is great for you. do what you can to foster it.
4) obviously
5) dont' play on a server with a mean and or biases server admin <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
18. Hence the saying: If you know the enemy
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle.
<span style='color:white'>
-know your own strengths and weaknesses as well as of the enemy
-if you have excellent intel but are blind to your own errors (too much medspam, tfarming everywhere, not getting upgrades for the rines until the 20 minute mark, never getting phases in a long game, etc etc) then yer batting 500 my friend
-if you are ignorant in both matters, and do not take efforts to learn (blame the rines, always say teh aliens are stacking, not asking for, nor listening to constructive criticism) yer toast.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
IV. TACTICAL DISPOSITIONS
1. Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put
themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then
waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>ambush when a skulk, hold a long hallway or open room when a rine. be patient.</span>
2. To secure ourselves against defeat lies in our
own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy
is provided by the enemy himself.
<span style='color:white'>you can only attack effectively in counter to a tech tree that the opponent has chosen. to just go up a tech tree without thought of what you are countering is a fool's path.</span>
7. The general who is skilled in defense hides in the
most secret recesses of the earth; he who is skilled in
attack flashes forth from the topmost heights of heaven.
Thus on the one hand we have ability to protect ourselves;
on the other, a victory that is complete.
<span style='color:white'>you can interprete this as you will, but for me this says, to attack is victory, to defend is not to lose (but in NS, that is, to lose eventually)</span>
10. To lift an autumn hair is no sign of great strength;
to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight;
to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear.
<span style='color:white'>one must think deeply about a strategem one is to employ. sometimes the subtle plan works best, the more clever, than the brute attack.</span>
20. The onrush of a conquering force is like the bursting
of pent-up waters into a chasm a thousand fathoms deep.
<span style='color:white'>when one attacks, it's important to attack with all your might. rally your kharaa brethern, and attack all at once with a stomping onos, a multitude of skulks, and a gorge in the background. rather than going in one by one. </span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
V. ENERGY
3. To ensure that your whole host may withstand
the brunt of the enemy's attack and remain unshaken--
this is effected by maneuvers direct and indirect.
<span style='color:white'>here, host means army, IIRC. learn what to attack and when to be cautious. gl spam around a corner is a much better option than directly assaulting 2 stomping onii and a WOL. however, 3 hmg/ha assault is much better on an onii who has just devoured and is running away with a a heavy than tossing grenades it's way.</span>
5. In all fighting, the direct method may be used
for joining battle, but indirect methods will be needed
in order to secure victory.
<span style='color:white'>hehe, often times, siege is necessary . i take direct methods as, your rines. indirect as static defense. seems to make sense <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
14. Therefore the good fighter will be terrible
in his onset, and prompt in his decision.
<span style='color:white'>when you attack an important target, must as much as your forces together. make clear your decision, and get them to go. do not dally in whether to attack or not. decide, then act. quickly. </span>
20. By holding out baits, he keeps him on the march;
then with a body of picked men he lies in wait for him.
<span style='color:white'>try to bait a group of rines with a gorge with several skulks ready for some tasty rfk. if feasible, bait an onos with a ha (no heavy weapon) with hmgers ready to take down that 100 rez beast <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
21. The clever combatant looks to the effect of combined
energy, and does not require too much from individuals.
Hence his ability to pick out the right men and utilize
combined energy.
<span style='color:white'>try to attack together, and hopefully with combined arms. do not rely and or hope for that elite rambo to help pull out wins</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
VI. WEAK POINTS AND STRONG
1. Sun Tzu said: Whoever is first in the field and
awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight;
whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle
will arrive exhausted.
<span style='color:white'>move your rines out QUICKLY. both rines and kharaa are much stronger holding and or ambushing from a position than entering it.</span>
2. Therefore the clever combatant imposes his will on
the enemy, but does not allow the enemy's will to be imposed on him.
<span style='color:white'>see next point. i see this mainly pertainting to attacking. but i'm sure someone can think of when defending can do this. in one on one, la vs skulk, this makes sense in defensive positioning. force the skulk/rine to come to you. but in general strategy, you, in general, want them to respond to your action.</span>
3. By holding out advantages to him, he can cause the enemy
to approach of his own accord; or, by inflicting damage,
he can make it impossible for the enemy to draw near.
<span style='color:white'>attack, attack attack. have them react and you will always be free to act.often makes it very difficult for the kharaa to rally their forces to counterattack if they are constantly worried about assault.</span>
5. Appear at points which the enemy must hasten to defend;
march swiftly to places where you are not expected.
<span style='color:white'>when you decide on a poitn to get to and capitalize on, move QUICKLY, dont' get bogged down by a pesky lerk, a tempting gorge, a bulbous RT, or the siren call of getting full ammo.</span>
6. An army may march great distances without distress,
if it marches through country where the enemy is not.
<span style='color:white'>try moving around strongholds and points of great allied loss</span>
7. You can be sure of succeeding in your attacks
if you only attack places which are undefended.You can
ensure the safety of your defense if you only hold
positions that cannot be attacked.
<span style='color:white'>shotgunning the first hive is usually an easier task than taking down the 2nd, usually OC'ed hive. taking down an RT far from their hive is usualy easier to do than taking the RT JUST outside their base/hive.</span>
10. You may advance and be absolutely irresistible,
if you make for the enemy's weak points; you may retire
and be safe from pursuit if your movements are more rapid
than those of the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>attack where they have not a WOL, attack their hive when they are not near a mvmt chamber. attack their base when their heavy train is moving from the PG.</span>
17. For should the enemy strengthen his van,
he will weaken his rear; should he strengthen his rear,
he will weaken his van; should he strengthen his left,
he will weaken his right; should he strengthen his right,
he will weaken his left. If he sends reinforcements everywhere,
he will everywhere be weak.
<span style='color:white'>be careful on what you choose to reinforce and how much, that is money that is not being spend defending another area, or upgrades not researched, or weapons not bought.so to when you WOL what you think is a chokepoint, have you considered the assault from jetpacks?</span>
23. Rouse him, and learn the principle of his
activity or inactivity. Force him to reveal himself,
so as to find out his vulnerable spots.
<span style='color:white'>why the HECK have we not seen any hide nor hair of rines for the last 5 minutes/?! find out. and quick. is it a train push? a jetpack assault, a sneak siege?</span>
24. Carefully compare the opposing army with your own,
so that you may know where strength is superabundant
and where it is deficient.
<span style='color:white'>is all that rez that the aliens have being spendon WOLs? hoarded into higher lifeforms? are there just a buncha rez **** there? do they enjoy attacking in number?does your particular team excel in all ramboing and keeping their spawn cue massive?</span>
28. Do not repeat the tactics which have gained
you one victory, but let your methods be regulated
by the infinite variety of circumstances.
<span style='color:white'>in two words "forget processing" <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> hehe try and mix it up. esp if the aliens know yer strats <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
30. So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong
and to strike at what is weak.
<span style='color:white'>attack the hive that is least defended, corner that onos by himself and focus all firepower upon it (imho, a single onos can be MUCH weaker than a group fo skulks and gorges), siege out a OC spammed area, etc.</span>
31. Water shapes its course according to the nature
of the ground over which it flows; the soldier works
out his victory in relation to the foe whom he is facing.
<span style='color:white'>be able to counter and understand what your enemy is doing. </span>
32. Therefore, just as water retains no constant shape,
so in warfare there are no constant conditions.
<span style='color:white'>jeet kune do, be flexible as water and all that jazz </span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
VII. MANEUVERING
2. Having collected an army and concentrated his forces,
he must blend and harmonize the different elements thereof
before pitching his camp.
<span style='color:white'>drop some hmgs and gl in that mix of ha/sg, you'll be happy you did. if you can, a few JP for PG setup and mainting your RT network is great </span>
11. We may take it then that an army without its
baggage-train is lost; without provisions it is lost;
without bases of supply it is lost.
<span style='color:white'>PG are incredibly important, rines are slower than molasses in a honeypot on a december morning. you need to maintain a good network of pgs. so to, RTs are THE most important thing. most of the time, you should seize an opportunity to drop an rt in place of an alien one. an unelectrified RT pays itself off quite quickly.</span>
13. We are not fit to lead an army on the march
unless we are familiar with the face of the country--its
mountains and forests, its pitfalls and precipices,
its marshes and swamps.
<span style='color:white'>you POSITIVELY, ABSOLUTELY, HAVE to know the map you are comming. you must know wehre the lerks will hit you from, where the gorges hide, where the skulks ambush from. where to siege from. otherwise, you 'are not fit to lead an army' <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> (i.e. you CANNOT siege Waste hive in ns_tanith from Research Labs)</span>
16. Whether to concentrate or to divide your troops,
must be decided by circumstances.
<span style='color:white'>sometimes i'ts necessary to have a group guarding your phase network to fendo ff the odd rush. sometimes the alien team is coherent in it's defense, and you need all guns trained on one objective.</span>
17. Let your rapidity be that of the wind,
your compactness that of the forest.
<span style='color:white'>comm faster, move your men faster, keep them in groups, for the love of Flayra <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
19. Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night,
and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.
<span style='color:white'>attempt to keep your main tech tree and approach from your opponent. dont' leap until you absolutely have to, don't go around bilebombing for the sake of it </span>
24. Gongs and drums, banners and flags, are means
whereby the ears and eyes of the host may be focused
on one particular point.
<span style='color:white'>USE WAYPOINTS. 90% chance that you will have rines who have NO idea where steam generation is. use waypoints, reinforce over voice comm what they are doing, where they are going, what the gameplan is.</span>
26. In night-fighting, then, make much use of signal-fires
and drums, and in fighting by day, of flags and banners,
as a means of influencing the ears and eyes of your army.
<span style='color:white'>ping early and often if they have sense up.</span>
28. Now a soldier's spirit is keenest in the morning;
by noonday it has begun to flag; and in the evening,
his mind is bent only on returning to camp.
<span style='color:white'>have your rines out and kiling stuff early, it gets them going. wait too long, and they are bound to get defeatest and not want to try for fear of an embarassing loss</span>
33. It is a military axiom not to advance uphill
against the enemy, nor to oppose him when he comes downhill.
<span style='color:white'>don't throw skulk after skulk against a heavy train that is just going to get rfk, do not send lmger's singly against a massive WOL</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
VIII. VARIATION IN TACTICS
2. When in difficult country, do not encamp. In country
where high roads intersect, join hands with your allies.
Do not linger in dangerously isolated positions.
In hemmed-in situations, you must resort to stratagem.
In desperate position, you must fight.
<span style='color:white'>don't be camping in cramped areas and or areas where skulks will feast on yer rines and lerks will gas em</span>
7. Hence in the wise leader's plans, considerations of
advantage and of disadvantage will be blended together.
<span style='color:white'>often times, i see comms only see the upside of a situation, and miss planning for the downside. if you sg push on their rts, have you taken into consideration rudimentary base defense (actually, i mess up in this particular way often)?</span>
12. There are five dangerous faults which may affect
a general:
(1) Recklessness, which leads to destruction;
(2) cowardice, which leads to capture;
(3) a hasty temper, which can be provoked by insults;
(4) a delicacy of honor which is sensitive to shame;
(5) over-solicitude for his men, which exposes him
to worry and trouble.
<span style='color:white'>
1) pushing without thought of defense
2) letting your rines fall on their haunches, and get killed one by one by CCs, as opposed to attacking together forthrightly, which would lead to zero casualties
3) commophobia
4) it's ok for that LMG/LA rine in the middle of nowhere to die. you won't be able to afford to save him, and cannot afford to disrupt your attention.
</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
IX. THE ARMY ON THE MARCH
7. In crossing salt-marshes, your sole concern
should be to get over them quickly, without any delay.
<span style='color:white'>in cramped, skulk fest areas, get yer rines MOVING, dont' group them up there, or otherwise slow their movements</span>
9. In dry, level country, take up an easily accessible
position with rising ground to your right and on your rear,
so that the danger may be in front, and safety lie behind.
So much for campaigning in flat country.
<span style='color:white'>go for wide open areas, and hold them.</span>
15. Country in which there are precipitous cliffs
with torrents running between, deep natural hollows,
confined places, tangled thickets, quagmires and crevasses,
should be left with all possible speed and not approached.
<span style='color:white'>see 7. don't go through a nasty area if you can help it</span>
17. If in the neighborhood of your camp there should
be any hilly country, ponds surrounded by aquatic grass,
hollow basins filled with reeds, or woods with thick
undergrowth, they must be carefully routed out and searched;
for these are places where men in ambush or insidious
spies are likely to be lurking.
<span style='color:white'>when guiding yer rines through an area, be aware of nasty overhangs, places where skulks enjoy ambushing from. be ready to warn your men and get them aware.</span>
22. The rising of birds in their flight is the sign
of an ambuscade. Startled beasts indicate that a sudden
attack is coming.
<span style='color:white'>watch for turret fire, it can be a great sentry to warn you of problems coming.</span>
29. When the soldiers stand leaning on their spears,
they are faint from want of food.
<span style='color:white'>med pack your rines when they are important positions </span>
42. If soldiers are punished before they have grown
attached to you, they will not prove submissive; and,
unless submissive, then will be practically useless.
If, when the soldiers have become attached to you,
punishments are not enforced, they will still be useless.
<span style='color:white'>be nice to them before you get badass. rapport with your rines is crucial.</span>
43. Therefore soldiers must be treated in the first
instance with humanity, but kept under control by means
of iron discipline. This is a certain road to victory.
<span style='color:white'>when you do have rapport, keep them on direct orders and always knowing what's gonig on. it's more of keeping them on task, good rines like to be on task ;D</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
X. TERRAIN
1. Sun Tzu said: We may distinguish six kinds of terrain,
to wit: (1) Accessible ground; (2) entangling ground;
(3) temporizing ground; (4) narrow passes; (5) precipitous
heights; (6) positions at a great distance from the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>[/COLOR]
2. Ground which can be freely traversed by both sides
is called accessible.
[COLOR=white]</span>
3. With regard to ground of this nature, be before
the enemy in occupying the raised and sunny spots,
and carefully guard your line of supplies. Then you
will be able to fight with advantage.
<span style='color:white'>make sure thre are armories in firebases, points of contention. you dont' want them phasing back and forth. stay up front and vigilant is best for consistent pressure.</span>
7. In a position of this sort, even though the enemy
should offer us an attractive bait, it will be advisable
not to stir forth, but rather to retreat, thus enticing
the enemy in his turn; then, when part of his army has
come out, we may deliver our attack with advantage.
<span style='color:white'>never attack where the particular alien life form has advantage. (i.e. don't have your shottie LA rines try and attack lerks in Refinery Hive of bast, don't have your heavies attack stomping onii in a tight corridor where they can't escape and create distance between each other.</span>
8. With regard to narrow passes, if you can occupy
them first, let them be strongly garrisoned and await
the advent of the enemy.
<span style='color:white'>get to a narrow hallway first and camp it.</span>
11. If the enemy has occupied them before you,
do not follow him, but retreat and try to entice him away.
<span style='color:white'>la/lmg rines and skulks are much better at a force attacking it and ambushing, than attacking a dug in position.</span>
14. Now an army is exposed to six several calamities,
not arising from natural causes, but from faults
for which the general is responsible. These are:
(1) Flight; (2) insubordination; (3) collapse; (4) ruin;
(5) disorganization; (6) rout.
16. When the common soldiers are too strong and
their officers too weak, the result is insubordination.
When the officers are too strong and the common soldiers
too weak, the result is collapse.
<span style='color:white'>actually, this is somewhat false in NS, if your rines are vet, and the comm takes orders from the ground, you'll be in good shape. but if you have a new comm who doesn't listen, the vets will greatly suffer. likewise, even the greatest strat relies on the rines to be able to kill SOME aliens.</span>
17. When the higher officers are angry and insubordinate,
and on meeting the enemy give battle on their own account
from a feeling of resentment, before the commander-in-chief
can tell whether or no he is in a position to fight,
the result is ruin.
<span style='color:white'>devoured heavies, attacking an RT in a key postion for PG, need i say more?</span>
18. When the general is weak and without authority;
when his orders are not clear and distinct; when there
are no fixes duties assigned to officers and men,
and the ranks are formed in a slovenly haphazard manner,
the result is utter disorganization.
<span style='color:white'>the ALL RAMBO NO STRAT strat is, given equal sides, mostly bad.</span>
24. The general who advances without coveting fame
and retreats without fearing disgrace, whose only
thought is to protect his country and do good service
for his sovereign, is the jewel of the kingdom.
<span style='color:white'>try to comm without ego, that is, don't be so befuddled with your own rep as a comm that you don't seize an opportunity; or become cocky in your ability that you leave open assaults; likewise, attacking where your rines will not succeed unless they were several orders of magnitude better. some of the best comms i've chatted with have no ego about their comming, often, feel they are quite average.</span>
25. Regard your soldiers as your children, and they
will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them
as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you
even unto death.
<span style='color:white'>care about your rines, instill confidence.</span>
26. If, however, you are indulgent, but unable to make
your authority felt; kind-hearted, but unable to enforce
your commands; and incapable, moreover, of quelling disorder:
then your soldiers must be likened to spoilt children;
they are useless for any practical purpose.
<span style='color:white'>but, by the same token, dont' be a pushover, don't pander to your favorite rine or public outcry. don't comm by democracy.</span>
27. If we know that our own men are in a condition
to attack, but are unaware that the enemy is not open
to attack, we have gone only halfway towards victory.
<span style='color:white'>OH GREAT!! you got 5 shotties hittnig a hvie.. but you didn't check to see there are 8 ocs and dcs with all the skulks waiting for you.</span>
29. If we know that the enemy is open to attack,
and also know that our men are in a condition to attack,
but are unaware that the nature of the ground makes
fighting impracticable, we have still gone only halfway
towards victory.
<span style='color:white'>same as 27. be aware of both sides for optimum assault.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
XI. THE NINE SITUATIONS
19. Rapidity is the essence of war: take advantage of
the enemy's unreadiness, make your way by unexpected routes,
and attack unguarded spots.
<span style='color:white'>attack quickly, quickly quickly. obviously, attackwhere they don't suspect. that means if you fail at sieging one hive, shottie rush the other. hit rts far from hives, etc, etc. in addition, PGs are really essential as well, this is of course, the rapidity thing </span>
22. Carefully study the well-being of your men,
and do not overtax them. Concentrate your energy and hoard
your strength. Keep your army continually on the move,
and devise unfathomable plans.
<span style='color:white'>if you rines are moving well on the field, do everything in your power to keep them out there. drop an armory for them if you think they need shotties, get a PG there if they are dwindling in number. often, it's much better to have your rines as one cohesive force slicing through the map like a sword. manytimes, it more effective to hoard rez and kit everyone out as a heavy train at once.</span>
25. Thus, without waiting to be marshaled, the soldiers
will be constantly on the qui vive; without waiting to
be asked, they will do your will; without restrictions,
they will be faithful; without giving orders, they can
be trusted.
<span style='color:white'>this is what happens in a clan, or on a pub server with regs </span>
33. How to make the best of both strong and weak--that
is a question involving the proper use of ground.
<span style='color:white'>open areas, narrow hallways, rooms with few entrances, chokepoints.</span>
37. By altering his arrangements and changing
his plans, he keeps the enemy without definite knowledge.
By shifting his camp and taking circuitous routes,
he prevents the enemy from anticipating his purpose.
<span style='color:white'>playing it fast and loose with totally unexpected strats (early rt block strat with few ppl, for example, or rushing to a3 and sg)</span>
40. To muster his host and bring it into danger:--this
may be termed the business of the general.
<span style='color:white'>group your men, that's your JOB. get them organized, tell them to HOLD, group UP.</span>
59. For it is precisely when a force has fallen into
harm's way that is capable of striking a blow for victory.
<span style='color:white'>often times, having your squad hunt down an onos, or fade, or rush into ocs, is the best way to turn the tides.</span>
63. On the day that you take up your command,
block the frontier passes, destroy the official tallies,
and stop the passage of all emissaries.
<span style='color:white'>yeah, this is just to show some of the points that have NOTHING to do with NS <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--></span>
64. Be stern in the council-chamber, so that you
may control the situation.
<span style='color:white'>don't let the peanut gallery comm too much from the ground. this can result in confused marines moving where a ground comm says, or pushing when they shouldnt'</span>
65. If the enemy leaves a door open, you must rush in.
<span style='color:white'>grab opportunities quickly, this has been repeated ad nauseum.</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
XII. THE ATTACK BY FIRE
9. (4) If it is possible to make an assault with fire
from without, do not wait for it to break out within,
but deliver your attack at a favorable moment.
<span style='color:white'>siege baby... siege.</span>
17. Move not unless you see an advantage; use not
your troops unless there is something to be gained;
fight not unless the position is critical.
<span style='color:white'>don't have your rines moving needlessly giving campnig skulks RFK. give them a purpose.</span>
18. No ruler should put troops into the field merely
to gratify his own spleen; no general should fight
a battle simply out of pique.
<span style='color:white'>see last point. this is only included cuz it talks about the spleen, which i found a knee slapper </span>
19. If it is to your advantage, make a forward move;
if not, stay where you are.
<span style='color:white'>this is included to show you what sort of silly silly obvious points are made as well in the great tome</span>
<span style='color:yellow'>=====================================</span>
XIII. THE USE OF SPIES
2. Hostile armies may face each other for years,
striving for the victory which is decided in a single day.
This being so, to remain in ignorance of the enemy's
condition simply because one grudges the outlay of a hundred
ounces of silver in honors and emoluments, is the height
of inhumanity.
<span style='color:white'>scan when you can. intel is really really important. drop that jetpack for the good rine who can find out what's going on.</span>
3. One who acts thus is no leader of men, no present
help to his sovereign, no master of victory.
<span style='color:white'>dont' pay for intel? you ain't no comm buddy boy.</span>
4. Thus, what enables the wise sovereign and the good
general to strike and conquer, and achieve things beyond
the reach of ordinary men, is foreknowledge.
18. Be subtle! be subtle! and use your spies for every
kind of business.
<span style='color:white'>it's very useful to have marines report back important details, they have 2nd hive up, sense is their first chamber, gorge rush coming, etc, etc </span>
Comments
to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight;
to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear.
<span style='color:white'>one must think deeply about a strategem one is to employ. sometimes the subtle plan works best, the more clever, than the brute attack.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This feels more to be, to only perceive the obvious and to only do what is easy is without merit.
<!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Oh, how he would love to play StarCraft... or any other RTS for that matter <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
gj on the post!!! MODS PLEASE TRANSFER THIS TO THE FRONTEIRSMAN STRATEGY AND STICKY IT!!!!!!!!!!
to see the sun and moon is no sign of sharp sight;
to hear the noise of thunder is no sign of a quick ear.
<span style='color:white'>one must think deeply about a strategem one is to employ. sometimes the subtle plan works best, the more clever, than the brute attack.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This feels more to be, to only perceive the obvious and to only do what is easy is without merit. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
The Art of war was not a book written for battles, but rather a textbook of sorts for strategy. You read it, you understand it, you study it, you work with it, you learn from it. Much of it is simple and to understand, but there are some things which you must really think about in there, that you would want to know. One thing I would like to add is that despite the age of these texts, they are STILL useful and effective today, in modern warfare. If it can survive time like that, then you are missing something in ridiculing it.
^_^
Niteowl: this is just beautiful work you've done here =-o, and it doesn't seem so huge after reading a 20 pg bio chapter. too bad i don't play any strategy games (much) anymore <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->.
hey <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> thanks for the kind words:D
and ty beige, ballisto, cwag for the compliments, thanks the rest for your input. <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
will follow you into the deepest valleys; look upon them
as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you
even unto death.
<span style='color:white'>to be more specific, don't berate and put them down needlessly. listen and respond to reasonable requests (a welder for the dmged structs, for example). give medpacks when they are on an important mission. heap praise when due, remain calm when failure occurs. </span>
VII. MANEUVERING
26. In night-fighting, then, make much use of signal-fires
and drums, and in fighting by day, of flags and banners,
as a means of influencing the ears and eyes of your army.
<span style='color:white'>ping early and often if they have sense up.</span> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, that's not what this means at all, though you'd think it at first glance. This is saying it's vital to have communication between you and the rest of your army. In Sun Tzu's time, having no radios, they had to use signals, thus, flags and fires. Runners take too long.
However, in our time, we have both text and voice communication. Use them. Use them often. Use them wisely. Keep the team in line with your voice. Provide status updates. As commander, let your team know the plan whenever possible. Call them by name... this not only raises moral, it improves discipline.
On the khaara side, scout and let your team know where the enemy is. Let your team know where you are, and what you are doing (gorging at thus and such place to put up a WoL)
When the hive mind tells you that a tower is under attack, or a structure is under attack, remember that it doesn't tell everyone WHICH tower or structure is under attack, and looking around for it takes a moment. If when you hear the warning, you look and see where the attack is, and vocally or textually communicate this to the rest of the team, they can get there significantly faster than if they had to get this information themselves. In fact, they usually WON'T get this information themselves (esp. on pubs) and will likely assume it's something minor unless you tell them otherwise.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
all excellent points. especiallya bout the calling marines by name. too often (i do this too <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo--> ) a comm will say "SOMEOBODY STAY AT BASE" or somebody do taht. well, everyone thinks that someone else is somebody. using names for specific tasks is really really good for getting orders through and making sure your plans pull off smoothly.
andi'm sure that's not what he meant. but my interpretation is non the less false. it is important to ping when you have limited visibilty. however, your explanation is richer and more filled out <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
thanks <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> , oh, btw, did you not read it all cuz it was.. err.. too long?
Say you hold several rts. You "accidentally" leave one undefended, they attack, and you use that opportunity (which you have handed out to them) to attack their other flank.
The trick is to make the enemy do your bidding without knowing it. Great example is a PG rush that bm did in a demo - two pgs, the enemy attacked one, so bm built the other and rushed through to win the game. Excellent example of how giving the enemy "opportunities" makes you win the game.
For aliens, its like letting the rines break out of base so you can split their forces and wipe out their poorly manned base <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
oh good god, you know you made a long post when someone says that <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--> heheheh glad ya liked it.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
well, that's an excellent point there necrosis. i guess i'm just not a subtle or experienced or good enough commander to do taht. i've seen indirection a few times. i just assumed most people dont have the rez or don't do that.
but yeah, there are tons of references to "bending the enemy to your will" which is really great work, if you can get it <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
both having them attack a nice juicy target and indirection are both good examples.
march swiftly to places where you are not expected.
when you decide on a poitn to get to and capitalize on, move QUICKLY, dont' get bogged down by a pesky lerk, a tempting gorge, a bulbous RT, or the siren call of getting full ammo.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->I see 2 possible meanings in this.
1) Attack important locations(they must hasten to defend it, or eventually loose)
2) one of his Main points: Attack the weak points, This could be an opening into a hive - or just that lonely RT that doesnt have any defense or Allies nearby.
And you should've written some of his/yours main points in the buttom or the top for lazy people like me(although i read the whole thing).
Here my shot at it:
1) know you and your enemies strenghts and weaknesses - and know how to compare them correctly so you can judge every situation correctly.
2) Attack at weak points and avoid Strongly fortified areas if you can
3) Choose your strategy based on the enemies(this is just a area of "rule" 1 actually)
4) Resourches are damn important, for both teams - so make yourself get res, but more importantly destroy the other teams income.
5) Keep organized, one rine is no good, while a squad can be almost invincible based on the skill of the individuals. - this applies to both teams.
6) Disorganize the opposition if you can, to avoid the mentioned squads - this can be done by destroying the enemies infrastructure(capturing one/more keypoint(s) on the map) - or a hit and run Devouring Onos.
7) Keep yourself in a 'balanced' state - remain thoughtful at all times, dont get cocky, despaired(by almost certain defeat) or similar.
now im too lazy to write more and i cant really think of more. But the main rule is that you have to keep yourself in good shape in every aspects, while draining the opposition.
and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a
hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy,
for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will
succumb in every battle. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This can be applied to skulking, some marines remark that I am hard to hit with the shotty; this is because I <i>know</i> the shotty, I sat in an empty server and fired the shotty into the wall until I knew the RoF and the spread of the shotty. You get to a point where you can relax between shots because you know you don't have to dodge anything for a litttle while.
slightly OT to this thread, i find the shottie is best used if you are relaxed, cuz you really have to wait for theskulk to close the distance to get that one shot kill <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
and AGAIN OT, bloody nice map, hydosity mouse, NJ <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
---
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=55037&st=80' target='_blank'>Sun Tzu</a>
the definitive sun tzu thread with speculations
(may have spun out of hand near the end but the beginning contains some decent info imho)
---
I shall edit this when I can track down the other threads with search function since right now the search script seems to be down.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->
5. Appear at points which the enemy must hasten to defend;
march swiftly to places where you are not expected.
when you decide on a poitn to get to and capitalize on, move QUICKLY, dont' get bogged down by a pesky lerk, a tempting gorge, a bulbous RT, or the siren call of getting full ammo.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Places where the enemy must hasten to defend - not just good areas, but holes in his defence where he *must* move to reinforce. Ever see aliens rush an area when you get close to their res? You're making them fight on your terms, at places they must bolster. Hell, even moving close to a hive/base is enough to trigger mass defence action.
Basically you put the enemy on the defensive, which is fatal for him as he spends more and more resources while you can afford to save up.
March swiftly to where you're not expected is essentially rushing. Advantages are twofold - you force the enemy to react, and if you're right and there IS a gap, you can exploit it to the full. Sure, the enemy may reply in kind, but if you've just taken out their IP/hive you've got the game sewn up. Another possible interpretation is sending a ninja to a hive with JP and GL. All hell breaks loose. I've went into a marine spawn as a cloaked silenced skulk and ripped up the IPs and got halfway into the CC before being nailed by marines. That SERIOUSLY knackers their game plan, and turrets go up like they're free.
You might think thats bad, but turrets cost enough res and time to build that it's actually in your favour (especially since the rines are expecting more aliens any second).
This leads to another great area of combat, which is the psychological war. If you cripple the enemy morale, you've won. If you doubt that, then try any game where your team are convinced they'll lose because of X Y or Z. Turning it around is virtually impossible, compared to the same event on an upbeat and motivated team.
---
<a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=1&t=55037&st=80' target='_blank'>Sun Tzu</a>
the definitive sun tzu thread with speculations
(may have spun out of hand near the end but the beginning contains some decent info imho)
---
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
i was quite dissapointed in that thread, personally. that's actually why i MADE this thread. it actually discusses sun tzu, not goes off on some tangential diatribe that ppl can spam to.
QUOTE (Hang Loose @ Dec 11 2003, 03:29 PM)
---
Sun Tzu
the definitive sun tzu thread with speculations
(may have spun out of hand near the end but the beginning contains some decent info imho)
---
i was quite dissapointed in that thread, personally. that's actually why i MADE this thread. it actually discusses sun tzu, not goes off on some tangential diatribe that ppl can spam to.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you mean off topic like how we are explaning why you made this post? Um ok..
(sorry for that remark but hey "Im batman" afterall)
But sun tzu has great advice in the art of war, but i think the best advice given might be from sun tzu or zero i cant remember but im gonna quote it from the movie "The Last Samurai" which is just a movie but it also has good points involved with it, and was well researched, but to "beat your enemy is to know your enemy"...but that quote doesnt work with natural selection, but maybe it does?!?! But if you know yoru enemy he will probably know you too, so the best tactics is "Misdirection".. and you can use misdirection pretty effectivley in ns. I know i have seen Zero (a great commander) use this tactic and it worked pretty well...
you mean off topic like how we are explaning why you made this post? Um ok..
(sorry for that remark but hey "Im batman" afterall)
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
this will probably derail this thread, but.. what the heck does that mean? you're batman?