Hockey Has Become T3h Suk
MonsieurEvil
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">Go home, hoser!</div> <a href='http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~84~1803354,00.html' target='_blank'>http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,3...1803354,00.html</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NHL sinking on thin ice
Low-scoring games, trapping 'D' send fans elsewhere
By Adrian Dater
Denver Post Sports Writer
AP file
Joe Sakic, on Sunday night's Avalanche-Devils game, the ESPN game of the week: 'One of the 10 most boring games I've ever been a part of.'
Joe Sakic viewed Sunday night's Avalanche game against the Stanley Cup champion New Jersey Devils as Exhibit A of what's wrong with the NHL. Quite a review for the ESPN game of the week that ended in a 1-1 tie.
"One of the 10 most boring games I've ever been a part of," Sakic said Monday.
Those are attention-grabbing words for the normally milquetoast Sakic, who prefers to keep his postgame commentary like his play on the ice: consistent and noncontroversial.
Not only was it another low-scoring game, it had precious few quality scoring chances, little room to skate, spare physical play and more icings than a local bakery.
The NHL has been taking heat for its low-scoring product, with some calling it the "No Heroes League" and the "No Highlights League."
Goals are coming even less frequently than last season, which was one of the lowest-scoring in modern league history. After Sunday, the 352 NHL games featured an average of 5.1 goals, down from 5.5 at the same point last season. In 1981-82, the average was 8.3 per game.
Critics say the game has degenerated into soccer on ice, and point to the drastic drop in scoring in the past 20 years. But, more than the lack of goals, they point to a dull sameness from game to game. Teams don't play to win, they play not to lose. Team A gets a one- or two-goal lead, then shuts down Team B the rest of the night by playing dump-it-in, trapping hockey. Referees call a couple of power plays for one team, then oblige by evening the score for the other.
Sakic loudly joins the chorus on that last criticism. Never one to question the officiating on the ice, as his 2001 Lady Byng Trophy for gentlemanly conduct helps illustrate, Sakic took sharp issue with an "even-it-up" philosophy he sees in today's NHL referees.
"Anytime you have a 2-0 lead, the refs don't call anything, unless it's against you," Sakic said. "'Gotta keep it tight, keep it tight.' That's what the league wants, I guess. Tight games."
One of commissioner Gary Bettman's main selling points about his sport lately has been how closely contested the games are most nights. While Bettman has done what many say is a good job of marketing the sport from its days when it didn't have any network television contracts in the United States and increased its overall revenues, the NHL continues to suffer from paltry national television ratings. Attendance is down, including for the Cup champion Devils, who have drawn no more than 10,000 fans to a few games this season at Continental Airlines Arena that seats 19,040.
NHL television ratings have been hurt severely in the country's major markets, largely because those cities have had losing teams in recent years. In New York, the country's largest media market, the Original Six Rangers have not made the playoffs since 1996-97. In Chicago, the Blackhawks have missed the playoffs five of the past six seasons. The Los Angeles Kings haven't been past the second round since 1993.
According to Avs right winger Teemu Selanne, the main reason the NHL isn't selling to mainstream America centers around the product on the ice.
Selanne scored 76 goals as a rookie in 1992-93, a record that still stands. He estimates he "might score 50" in today's NHL if he performed the way he did that season. He and teammate Milan Hejduk, who led the league with 50 goals last season, chuckled when asked if anybody could score 70 goals in today's NHL.
"No way," Selanne said. "It's a totally different game today. It's all defensive systems. If I could change three things in the NHL today, I would do this:
"One, make the blue lines 2 or 3 inches bigger. That would make for less offsides and make less space in the neutral zone.
"Two, make the goalie gear smaller. Two or 3 inches smaller in the shoulders, especially. I understand they need protection, but you look at (Anaheim's Jean-Sebastien) Giguere now, he can't even move with all his equipment.
"Third one, I would have penalty shots after overtime."
During the 1992-93 season, there were 14 players who scored 50 or more goals, and the average goals per game was 7.2. In the past eight NHL seasons, there have been a total of 15 50-goal scorers.
"It's just a totally different game than it used to be," Selanne said. "There's just no goals."
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Bleh. Agreed. Watching the utterly apathetic Carolina (Raleigh) Caines here is the pits. When I was a kid and went to endless Hawks games, it was exciting and fun. Now, hockey is crap. Take off, ay!
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->NHL sinking on thin ice
Low-scoring games, trapping 'D' send fans elsewhere
By Adrian Dater
Denver Post Sports Writer
AP file
Joe Sakic, on Sunday night's Avalanche-Devils game, the ESPN game of the week: 'One of the 10 most boring games I've ever been a part of.'
Joe Sakic viewed Sunday night's Avalanche game against the Stanley Cup champion New Jersey Devils as Exhibit A of what's wrong with the NHL. Quite a review for the ESPN game of the week that ended in a 1-1 tie.
"One of the 10 most boring games I've ever been a part of," Sakic said Monday.
Those are attention-grabbing words for the normally milquetoast Sakic, who prefers to keep his postgame commentary like his play on the ice: consistent and noncontroversial.
Not only was it another low-scoring game, it had precious few quality scoring chances, little room to skate, spare physical play and more icings than a local bakery.
The NHL has been taking heat for its low-scoring product, with some calling it the "No Heroes League" and the "No Highlights League."
Goals are coming even less frequently than last season, which was one of the lowest-scoring in modern league history. After Sunday, the 352 NHL games featured an average of 5.1 goals, down from 5.5 at the same point last season. In 1981-82, the average was 8.3 per game.
Critics say the game has degenerated into soccer on ice, and point to the drastic drop in scoring in the past 20 years. But, more than the lack of goals, they point to a dull sameness from game to game. Teams don't play to win, they play not to lose. Team A gets a one- or two-goal lead, then shuts down Team B the rest of the night by playing dump-it-in, trapping hockey. Referees call a couple of power plays for one team, then oblige by evening the score for the other.
Sakic loudly joins the chorus on that last criticism. Never one to question the officiating on the ice, as his 2001 Lady Byng Trophy for gentlemanly conduct helps illustrate, Sakic took sharp issue with an "even-it-up" philosophy he sees in today's NHL referees.
"Anytime you have a 2-0 lead, the refs don't call anything, unless it's against you," Sakic said. "'Gotta keep it tight, keep it tight.' That's what the league wants, I guess. Tight games."
One of commissioner Gary Bettman's main selling points about his sport lately has been how closely contested the games are most nights. While Bettman has done what many say is a good job of marketing the sport from its days when it didn't have any network television contracts in the United States and increased its overall revenues, the NHL continues to suffer from paltry national television ratings. Attendance is down, including for the Cup champion Devils, who have drawn no more than 10,000 fans to a few games this season at Continental Airlines Arena that seats 19,040.
NHL television ratings have been hurt severely in the country's major markets, largely because those cities have had losing teams in recent years. In New York, the country's largest media market, the Original Six Rangers have not made the playoffs since 1996-97. In Chicago, the Blackhawks have missed the playoffs five of the past six seasons. The Los Angeles Kings haven't been past the second round since 1993.
According to Avs right winger Teemu Selanne, the main reason the NHL isn't selling to mainstream America centers around the product on the ice.
Selanne scored 76 goals as a rookie in 1992-93, a record that still stands. He estimates he "might score 50" in today's NHL if he performed the way he did that season. He and teammate Milan Hejduk, who led the league with 50 goals last season, chuckled when asked if anybody could score 70 goals in today's NHL.
"No way," Selanne said. "It's a totally different game today. It's all defensive systems. If I could change three things in the NHL today, I would do this:
"One, make the blue lines 2 or 3 inches bigger. That would make for less offsides and make less space in the neutral zone.
"Two, make the goalie gear smaller. Two or 3 inches smaller in the shoulders, especially. I understand they need protection, but you look at (Anaheim's Jean-Sebastien) Giguere now, he can't even move with all his equipment.
"Third one, I would have penalty shots after overtime."
During the 1992-93 season, there were 14 players who scored 50 or more goals, and the average goals per game was 7.2. In the past eight NHL seasons, there have been a total of 15 50-goal scorers.
"It's just a totally different game than it used to be," Selanne said. "There's just no goals."
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bleh. Agreed. Watching the utterly apathetic Carolina (Raleigh) Caines here is the pits. When I was a kid and went to endless Hawks games, it was exciting and fun. Now, hockey is crap. Take off, ay!
Comments
Maybe it's time that we play the games ourselves.
Replace 'American' Football... with rugby!!!!!!!!!
Replace ice hockey... with just Hockey....
that is all <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
yup yup
hey inf you see that lil game a week or so ago? what was the score again? please remind me <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
I'm not really a big fan of hockey myself, but that's bad.
Hockey up here is <b>OUR</b> game, we all love it and even if the Toronto Maple Leafs suck most of the time, every one still loves them and the Air Canada Center is always sold out, every game!
Canadians love our Hockey
Hockey up here is <b>OUR</b> game, we all love it and even if the Toronto Maple Leafs suck most of the time, every one still loves them and the Air Canada Center is always sold out, every game!
Canadians love our Hockey<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, most finns love hockey too, but I'm special. <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
And, uh, were I blaming someone/-thing?
I pretty much don't see that happening
becuase while your getting all that defense the aliens are getting 3 hives, or the marines are getting all the upgrades and getting ready to roll, as the game procedes each side gets stronger via lifeforms and upgrades, and the only way to get those is to be offensive in getting and holding resnodes
wow, actually NS talk in off-topic <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo-->
[edit]
yeah, hockey really did fall the eff off
[/edit]
Ok, got that out of the way. Does anyone here want to offer some responses using their brains? I think that the Defense > Offense argument is very valid, and often shows why (American) football and very recent NBA Basketball is pretty terrible to watch. For decades the NBA outlawed super-effective boring defenses like the Zone. They recently allowed it (2001), and the consequential crappy games and lowered viewership is leading them towards outlawing it again. Hockey could do the same thing by making goalies stop wearing Michelin Man outfits and actually have to use the glove a bit. They could make offsides way harder to come by. They could outlaw some of the boring Zone-like defenses everyone uses (3-man, dump the puck, crash the corners, and constant 'keep away' clock run out horseshizzle that is currently standard). They could crank up the penalties and have more power plays.
Hockey was exciting because it was fast and fluid and unpredictable and there were lots of scoring possibilities. Gretzky would not have gotten all those points in today's league - not even close. And he was the last time hockey was fun to watch and somewhat popular anywhere outside of Ontario. If Hockey wants to avoid going out of business, they need to get their act together. And before a bunch of SunnyDeion posters here start yelling 'GOOD I HOPE IT BECOMES SMALL MARKET BACK IN CANADA WHERE IT BELONGS', just remember that when the NHL goes out of business, so does you being able to see games on TV except in the playoffs on Fox World Sports channel 355.
I've seen the very same in American football - as equipment gets better (lighter materials, more manueverability, better ventilation etc),much of the physical drainage aspect is thrown out the window. Coupled with the fact that sports are so saturated in American society that most good players eventually <b>do</b> get found, if they make the right choices. Because of this, the massive influx of supremely good players has rendered old-school strategies (like throwing from the pocket in football, for instance) basically useless. Wanna know why that Michael Vick fella is good? He's a runningback in a Quarterback's uniform. As long as he can just scramble his butt all over the back field, he'll rack up both yardage and wins.
Conclusively, the recent boom in sports skill has come from many things - better, well-engineered equipment and much better players ('natural' enhancers such as steroids won't be included - that's an entirely different topic) has made many of the games that we know and love into evenly matched, heartless snorefests.
And that's the sad truth <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
However, I have attempted watching Ice Hockey for a while now and it just doesn't grab my interest in the slightest. If there is a goal in the entire game it can happen from almost anywhere on the rink, with the smallest amount of build up and even then the shot itself doesn't look that great no matter how many slow motion replays you get. I'm not surprised NHL is unpopular in America, it just isn't fun to watch.
I never realized how bad it was though until last years playoffs. Here I was thinking, "Hey, Canucks vs Minnesota, should be a good matchup." (I don't mind american teams that DO get snow) but turns out... they got the same coach that used to be on the Devils... and using the same strategy the Devils made famous. The "Neutral zone trap".
I don't mind seeing good defensive playing. But when you have the **** puck, you should be going to the other end, not **** around in your own zone. The neutral zone trap just causes a LOT of middle of the ice **** around, and offsides, and crap like that. That is what they need to get rid of. Making goalies equipment smaller, more penalties won't fix anything. They need to get the game to move END TO END. How to do that? I think going to international ice-size would help. If not the length, the extra width. (Not sure exactly how the dimensions compare.) Basically, give the offense more room to move. I don't know. I also recall reading about the "one man offsides" where one player can go cherry-pick (but no more). Was a response to how to fix the neutral zone trap...
Either way, I'll keep watching as long as Canadian teams are playing.
And by the way, "ay"? It's spelled "E-H", eh!
And i never remembered hockey to be an extremely high scoring game anyway, most of the time neither team ended up with more than 4 or 5 goals, unless one team completely outclassed the other. Now, I do agree it's kind of ridiculous to have a lot of games that are 1-0 or whatever, but seriously, defense is just getting better.
[/sarcasm]
Not that I'm defending hockey, but...
I guess we should prevent canadians from posting here, as from I can see from the posts they'd defend their national (i.e. only known) sport if it involved having Brian Boytano and Dorothy Hammill doing penalty shots against Barney and the Teletubbies. STOP BLINDLY DEFENDING IT IF IT SUCKS AND NO ONE LIKES IT - FIX IT! Jesus, learn to correct mistakes and not call them features, you sound like Slashdot readers talking about some linux distro.
Ok, so rant over AGAIN. The average hockey score 10 years ago was 8 points per game. It is now 5 points per game. That is a huge drop, and no matter what you might think, <i>knowing</i> that there is very little possibility of anything ever happening in a game is going to affect its popularity. BigD points out the Neutral Zone trap as being the Zone of the NHL, and he's right. It (and tactics like it) have ruined the game. I'd like to hear more suggestions about what people would do to make it be more like the years of Bret and Gordie and Wayne and Mario (and my boys, Chelios and Roenick). What people don't seem to realize is that the NHL is 250 <b>million</b> bucks in the hole this year, and it's quite possible that they will simply go bankrupt and vanish next year. Then hockey will die as a sport outside of Canada and other frozen wasteland countries and end up in the 'WTH is that?' list in the winter olympics along with louge and curling. I doubt anyone wants that, even the SunnyDeions in here.
/edit
OMG MONSIEUR YOU HAVE 7777 POSTS!!! crazzyy....
And I think getting non-fans (aka, non-canadians) to respond would be a good idea, because I SERIOUSLY can't see how Hockey sucks as much as "non-fans" say it does. I mean seriously, every sport has it's pits, and it's easy for bias to see through those pits.
Seriously, if you want to say something sucks, explain WHAT and WHY it sucks. Is it all the score? Is it too much passing, not enough shooting? Do guys stand around to much? Make a list of specific points. Make a list of ways hockey should improve.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think if serious on-topic discussion is wanted, the discussion forum would be great for this topic.
And I think getting non-fans (aka, non-canadians) to respond would be a good idea, because I SERIOUSLY can't see how Hockey sucks as much as "non-fans" say it does. I mean seriously, every sport has it's pits, and it's easy for bias to see through those pits.
Seriously, if you want to say something sucks, explain WHAT and WHY it sucks. Is it all the score? Is it too much passing, not enough shooting? Do guys stand around to much? Make a list of specific points. Make a list of ways hockey should improve.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This might sound kind of stupid, but the only thing I DON'T like is the scoring. But at the same time, I don't know what they could do to really make it that better.... I like the fact that it has lots of passing, because I like TEAM BASED games. I'm not saying hockey sucks, just that in the last couple of years it hasn't been as entertaining as it use to...but that could just be me.
Also, rivalries barely exist anymore. Back in the glory days of hockey (we're talking some half a century or more ago), the Montreal and Toronto teams were banned from riding no the same train when going back and forth between games in the playoffs because they were getting into too many fights on the trains. Back then, rivalries were BIG deals and the players literally hated each other. Now, that doesn't exist anymore. Trading and free agency has players switching teams so often teams don't stay the same long enough for the players to learn to hate eachother and develop the entertaining rivalries.
Finally, hockey needs to bring back fighting. Yes, I know there still is fighting but not nearly as much as there used to be. Last year, Detroit and St. Louis were playing a game where the Red Wings were up by a score of 7-1 or something similar to that. WIth about 5 minutes to play, all hell broke loose. There was a total of 13 fights including 2 full out 5 on 5 brawls. Over 200 penalty minutes were accumulated in the last 5 minutes. The crowd was going nuts and people were writing into the papers and calling the sports talk shows raving about what a great game it was despite the fact we lost 7-1. Every crowd loves watching a fight. Sadly, the NHL is doing everything it can to curve fighting these days. Trust me, everyone goes crazy and jumps to their feet during a fight. The same can not neccesarily be said for when a goal is scored.
Okay, I'll just cram my foot in my mouth and go along with the notion that hockey is boring.
And thinking more on that topic, the league has been <i>trying</i> to get the goons out of the sport. The idea was to let the fast skilled players go without being killed, but like you point out, it's backfiring. In every way. And now that you got me thinking about it more, the neutral zone trap crap didn't show up until the league started to try to get rid of goons, IIRC it seems about the same time frame.
<a href='http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hnic/instigator/archive.html' target='_blank'>And any serious Hockey fans may be interested in reading the stuff on this page.</a>
<a href='http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/hnic/instigator/gfx/2002-2003/lowandbehold.html' target='_blank'>This one in particular is rather on topic, sadly.</a>
Hockey has evolved into being unpopular, uninteresting crap, and it needs to get unevolved ASAP. Anyone who respects the sport would see that it needs help and would want to make changes. I personally go with the word of Joe Sakic, a guy with a lot more hands on hockey experience than I have (a couple years of rec park league in the 80's).
move the blue lines (less offsides)
and sharpen the sticks
now <i>that's</i> a game
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eh
In my lifetime, someone will make live action QuakeWorld. Someday...