Eu Poll Labels Israel Biggest Threat
MonsieurEvil
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
Join Date: 2002-01-22 Member: 4Members, Retired Developer, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<div class="IPBDescription">Why, do you suppose?</div> <a href='http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/031103170505.xmn7mrha' target='_blank'>http://www.eubusiness.com/afp/031103170505.xmn7mrha</a>
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The European Union scrambled Monday to contain the fallout from a public opinion poll that -- to Israel's fury -- labelled the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace.
The United States was just behind Israel in the global danger league, in joint second place with North Korea and Iran, according to the "Eurobarometer" poll requested by the European Commission.
The results were part of a survey last month on Europeans' attitudes in the aftermath of the Iraq war, which also found that more than two-thirds of EU citizens think that the US-led war was wrong.
The Israeli embassy in Brussels voiced outrage at the findings, which said that 59 percent of Europeans see Israel as a threat to world peace.
"Europeans seem blind to Israeli victims and suffering. Instead, they have put the Jewish state below the level of the worst pariah state and terror organizations," it said in a statement.
"We are not only sad but outraged. Not at European citizens, but at those who are responsible for forming public opinion," the embassy added.
"Israel's desperate struggle for peace and security for its people has been distorted beyond recognition in often one-sided and emotionally charged media coverage."
The poll had already prompted angry reactions after details were leaked by the Spanish daily El Pais last week.
The Israeli ambassador to Italy -- which currently holds the EU presidency -- told the daily Il Messagero Monday that the poll could have significant diplomatic consequences.
"It seems to me that the only aim of this poll was to denigrate Israel at a very delicate time, and I think it will it much more difficult for Europe to fulfill its ambition to play a part in the peace process," said Ehud Gol.
The EU's Italian presidency tried to play down the results, insisting they did not reflect the official EU position.
"The result of the survey, based on an ambiguous question, does not reflect the position of the European Union which has been voiced on numerous occasions," Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said in a statement.
"The EU is all the more annoyed since it is fully aware that the Israeli population is hit hard by terrorism," it said, criticising the "false signal" that the survey sent out.
According to the Eurobarometer poll, based on interviews with 500 people in each of the 15 EU states, some 59 percent of Europeans replied "yes" when asked whether or not Israel presents a threat to peace in the world.
A total of 53 percent said Iran, North Korea and the United States pose a threat, followed by 52 percent for Iraq, 50 percent for Afghanistan and 48 percent for Pakistan.
Countries lower down the list included Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, China, India, Russia and Somalia. The EU itself was described as a threat by eight percent of respondents.
The EU survey was presented in the form of a list of 15 countries, from which some 7,515 respondents were asked to say which ones they thought pose a threat to world peace.
Commmission spokesman Gerassimos Thomas was repeatedly asked why the Palestinian territories were not included, while for example the survey asked Europeans about the threat from Somalia. "It is not a country," he replied when pressed over the Palestinians.
The European Commission said Israel's anger was "legitimate" but refused to get drawn into whether the poll findings were valid.
"I think the (Israeli) reaction was a very legitimate reaction," the spokesman for the EU's executive arm told reporters.
But he added: "It is not our task to interpret each and every survey. We don't place excessive emphasis on one poll result." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, this is to me pretty silly. To say that you fear actions by the israelis more than North Koreans or Iranians, for example, shows that most people polled certainly have their priorities far out of wack. If you hate the US and Israel, fine and dandy, that's your right. But if you honestly think they are going to attack you before countries run by certified nutcase dictators and you live in the EU, you are asking to be labeled an imbecile. IMO.
Your thoughts on the Israeli aspect of this poll though? Europe pretty much wrote the book on modern anti-semitism - is that what we are seeing here? Something more? Is that just a portion of the issue? And the aspect of the palestinians is very interesting, considering that without them, there is no 'threat' from Israel. A rather poorly designed poll at best...
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The European Union scrambled Monday to contain the fallout from a public opinion poll that -- to Israel's fury -- labelled the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace.
The United States was just behind Israel in the global danger league, in joint second place with North Korea and Iran, according to the "Eurobarometer" poll requested by the European Commission.
The results were part of a survey last month on Europeans' attitudes in the aftermath of the Iraq war, which also found that more than two-thirds of EU citizens think that the US-led war was wrong.
The Israeli embassy in Brussels voiced outrage at the findings, which said that 59 percent of Europeans see Israel as a threat to world peace.
"Europeans seem blind to Israeli victims and suffering. Instead, they have put the Jewish state below the level of the worst pariah state and terror organizations," it said in a statement.
"We are not only sad but outraged. Not at European citizens, but at those who are responsible for forming public opinion," the embassy added.
"Israel's desperate struggle for peace and security for its people has been distorted beyond recognition in often one-sided and emotionally charged media coverage."
The poll had already prompted angry reactions after details were leaked by the Spanish daily El Pais last week.
The Israeli ambassador to Italy -- which currently holds the EU presidency -- told the daily Il Messagero Monday that the poll could have significant diplomatic consequences.
"It seems to me that the only aim of this poll was to denigrate Israel at a very delicate time, and I think it will it much more difficult for Europe to fulfill its ambition to play a part in the peace process," said Ehud Gol.
The EU's Italian presidency tried to play down the results, insisting they did not reflect the official EU position.
"The result of the survey, based on an ambiguous question, does not reflect the position of the European Union which has been voiced on numerous occasions," Italian Foreign Minister Franco Frattini said in a statement.
"The EU is all the more annoyed since it is fully aware that the Israeli population is hit hard by terrorism," it said, criticising the "false signal" that the survey sent out.
According to the Eurobarometer poll, based on interviews with 500 people in each of the 15 EU states, some 59 percent of Europeans replied "yes" when asked whether or not Israel presents a threat to peace in the world.
A total of 53 percent said Iran, North Korea and the United States pose a threat, followed by 52 percent for Iraq, 50 percent for Afghanistan and 48 percent for Pakistan.
Countries lower down the list included Syria, Libya, Saudi Arabia, China, India, Russia and Somalia. The EU itself was described as a threat by eight percent of respondents.
The EU survey was presented in the form of a list of 15 countries, from which some 7,515 respondents were asked to say which ones they thought pose a threat to world peace.
Commmission spokesman Gerassimos Thomas was repeatedly asked why the Palestinian territories were not included, while for example the survey asked Europeans about the threat from Somalia. "It is not a country," he replied when pressed over the Palestinians.
The European Commission said Israel's anger was "legitimate" but refused to get drawn into whether the poll findings were valid.
"I think the (Israeli) reaction was a very legitimate reaction," the spokesman for the EU's executive arm told reporters.
But he added: "It is not our task to interpret each and every survey. We don't place excessive emphasis on one poll result." <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now, this is to me pretty silly. To say that you fear actions by the israelis more than North Koreans or Iranians, for example, shows that most people polled certainly have their priorities far out of wack. If you hate the US and Israel, fine and dandy, that's your right. But if you honestly think they are going to attack you before countries run by certified nutcase dictators and you live in the EU, you are asking to be labeled an imbecile. IMO.
Your thoughts on the Israeli aspect of this poll though? Europe pretty much wrote the book on modern anti-semitism - is that what we are seeing here? Something more? Is that just a portion of the issue? And the aspect of the palestinians is very interesting, considering that without them, there is no 'threat' from Israel. A rather poorly designed poll at best...
Comments
Europeans, just like everyone else, are influenced by the media when it comes to world affairs.
"False signal" isn't false at all. The people really do seem to feel that way. Luckily the actual representitives of the EU isn't so radical.
The news isn't all that alarming to me, although I agree that their priorities are out of whack. I guess it goes to show that not everyone thinks like us.
Nothing. What has the US ever done to Europe? It doesn't matter, it won't change their opinion.
Plus, IIRC the question was what is the biggest threat to world peace, not nessisarily biggest threat to the EU. I still disagree with their choices, but whatever
The poll was about the threatening <b>states</b> , not the threatening nations. We Europeans just generally hate Sharon and Bush , and think their foreign policies are irresponsible. Theses feelings don't come from antisemitism or antiamericanism. Besides , if you didn't notice it , the success of negotiations with the Iran govt about WMD control made them look more reasonable.
We understand how the Americans elected Bush and the Israelis elected Sharon under the terrorist pressure , but we're greatly worried about their present govts.
This strikes me as Ivory Tower elitism. No rational person thinks a Western style nation like Israel is the biggest threat to world peace; the poll was a statement condeming Israel's existence, and it took the form of "Threat to world peace."
Musharraf has always struck me as being skilled enough to keep that from happening. He may be the most reasonable dictator in the world at the moment.
On the subject of the poll, I'm curious if a substantial portion of the respondents said yes about Israel because they view the whole irael-palestine conflict as a threat to world peace. Even if I agreed completely with everything the Israeli government has done, I would still say they are a threat to world peace just because of the number of people who don't recognize their right to exist as a nation. Saying that a nation is a threat to world peace isn't necessarily an indictment of their policies.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->The European Union scrambled Monday to contain the fallout from a public opinion poll that -- to Israel's fury -- labelled the Jewish state the biggest threat to world peace. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Its just probably because Israel is in a pretty unstable part of the world where no-one near them likes them.
Thats all.
Its not "Israel is evil, Palestine forever!" just that we don't like there being such a dodgy situation right on our doorstep.
This shows how the poll was biased ( or worded incredibly wrong. Depending on your POV ) from the start.
You can't dismiss the poll simply because you don't like the results. The poll wasn't asking for who they thought was a threat to their own country. They were asked which countries were the biggest threat to <b>world peace.</b> Quite obviously no one in Europe expects Israel or the U.S. to attack them. And you'd be right to consider those who do as imbeciles. But in the context of world peace, <b>yes</b>... Israel and the U.S. <b>are</b> the biggest threats. Israel doesn't care about world peace, and neither do we. If Israelis really cared about securing peace, they'd move out of Israel and find homes elsewhere. That is the peaceful solution to the problem. The non-peaceful solution is to wage war against all Arab countries in the area. The U.S. is more than happy to go along for the ride. That is the context of the poll, and they got it right. But alas... now you're going to have the "anti-semitism" onslaught and a frenzied attempt to discredit the poll and those who performed it. A textbook response to anything that reflects negatively on Israel. I can show you all kinds of examples where this same tactic is used to discredit those who have attempted to expose the truth.
Palestinians were probably not included since they have an obvious bias and would not be a meaningful statistic. 100% of Palestinians think Israel is the biggest threat to world peace, what a shock. It has nothing to do with the fact they are not a country. You give that same poll to U.S. and Israeli citizens and I'm going to guess you won't find Israel and the U.S. as #1 and #2, right?
Israel won't change their policies just to win a popularity contest in Europe. It's also legitimate to say that there is anti-Semitism in Europe. <a href='http://newssearch.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?scope=newsifs&tab=news&q=anti-semitism+in+europe&x=0&y=0' target='_blank'>BBC search for anti-semitism in Europe.</a> It's nothing new, but it's there.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Israel doesn't care about world peace, and neither do we. If Israelis really cared about securing peace, they'd move out of Israel and find homes elsewhere. That is the peaceful solution to the problem.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Israel was established because other countries don't protect Jews. Where would they all go? The middle east is out. So is Europe and Russia. China and India don't seem to be likely candidates and neither does Africa. That leaves Canada and the U.S. The logistics of moving over six million people across the Atlantic is a task unto itself, assuming that they'd be willing to go. Of course, they won't go. Too many Jews have put too much work into Israel for them to just hand it over.
I'm surprised that the U.S. didn't come in first, but other than that, I don't find it too surprising.
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
are you saying that the US isnt for world peace? Yes America doesnt put the world first, but niether does any country. to say the US doesnt care about world peace is wrong. It may not care as much as others of course. And why should the Israelis move out of Israel??? they have fought and died for that land in wars STARTED by Arab countries.
Back to the original topic... My question to the EU is if Israel is such a big threat to world peace then why dont they send peace keepers over there to help control the situation. or at the very leaste help with negotiations. I wasnt surprised to see America in the top but Israel surprised me.
So if everyone in your neighborhood disliked you, you would sell your house and move away on the spot?
Your solution for Israel is not possible, they are not going to leave their homes, and nether would you.
Your solution for Israel is not possible, they are not going to leave their homes, and nether would you. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, I would, and I think a lot of other people would too, particularly if their life was in danger. I'm not saying at all that leaving is the correct thing for them to do, but I very fequently question the sanity of anyone who chooses to remain in Israel/palestine of their own free will.
Quite the contrary, Israel is one of the more stable countries in the region. It is palestine who can't get their **** together- even if they WANTED peace the radicals would continue. And quite a few people, including arabs, don't care for the palestinians. Which is why they're still there and not taking refuge in friendly nearby arab countries.
Israel's pressence in the Middle East is a very destabilising one. Now I'm not saying that's anyone's fault, merely I am indicating a simple fact. As long as Israel exists, the rest of the Middle East will not tolerate it's pressence. The Middle East is an extreamly important section of the globe. Not only is it the meeting place of 3 continents, but it contains the most holy sites of the world's 3 major monotheistic religions plus a massive chunk of the world's oil supply. This makes the whole world take a good deal of interest in what happens in the Middle East. Hence, any sort of conflict there makes the world sit up and listen, and given the tremendous value of the Middle East, economically or theologically (is that even a word? Well it is now <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> ), the world doesn't want conflicts to occur.
Because of Israel's pressense conflicts will occur, and they have (6 Day War, War of 1973). Because of economic forces, wars will occur (Saddam's invasion of Kuwaiit). Plus, because of religious and cultural tensions war will occur (Iraq-Iran War, War against the Kurds). Now the important part: <b>Any conflict in the Middle East has the potential to drag the rest of the world into it</b>. Simply because the Middle East is so important. And the nation most likely to intervene is the US. They have both the motives (Oil, religion, desire to protect Israel) and the capabilities.
More so than any other place around the world, the Middle East represents the crucible for a third World War. Seeing as it is the most fought over location in human history, this is rather fitting. Israel sits at the top of the list because it is the biggest destabilising factor in the Middle East, and the one most likely to spark off a major conflict (for a number of reasons, firstly Israel is so strong as to require an alliance of it's neighbours, secondly Israel has strong ties to the West and hence the US would be more likely to intervene and thirdly Israel has nukes and the willpower to use them). The US sits in second position because they are the one's most likely to intercede in a Middle Eastern conflict and thus spark off an "East vs West" world war scenario. Plus the US's recent actions in the Iraq conflict would certainly fuel fears in the minds of many Europeans, especially the way the US blatently ignored world opinion. Finally, by the US intercedeing, the potential for other nations to be drawn in increases dramatically, seeing as the US has strong links to other powerful nations and the nature of the Middle East itself.
So if everyone in your neighborhood disliked you, you would sell your house and move away on the spot?
Your solution for Israel is not possible, they are not going to leave their homes, and nether would you.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I certainly wouldn't move INTO land if I knew the people there are going to try and <b>kill</b> me for being there. Again, you fail to realize that Israel did not exist 100 years ago. Palestine was Ottoman Empire terrirtory, and the population was mostly Arabic. Zionists decided that reclaiming Palestine for themselves and establishing a Jewish state was their goal. They could have gone anywhere... anywhere in the world. Yet Palestine was the only place on their list. Britain even tried to convince them to pick another locale, maybe somewhere in Africa. They <b>insisted</b> on Palestine.
It's naive to think that the people you are inevitably going to displace are not going to resist. Millions and millions of Jews across the planet, and they think they can all fit in together peacefully with the Arabs into a space the size of New Jersey, without anyone complaining or taking issue with it? Would you, wary of Arab acceptance and the high likelihood of violence, decide to move right into the center of Arab society? Yet this is exactly what happened. Violence, uprisings, and terrorism? Gee, what could have possibly caused that? Don't move into downtown Arabia, for crying out loud.
We're to feel sorry for them? They brought the Israeli/Palestinian feud upon themselves. I'm tired of this "everyone hates us, we're persecuted everywhere" mantra. There are lots of places in the world that accept Jews. All of North America, in fact. Heck, there's a townhome for sale right across from me. I'm sure there are lots of other places for sale here, too. Lots of room, farmable land, lots of religious freedoms... everyone except for the Native Americans is technically an immigrant here, what's 5 million more? My great grandparents, and millions of other people, decided America was the place to go to escape religious persecution. Is this country not good enough for the Israelis?
Oh, a Jewish state! They could still come here to the U.S. and establish their own country if they really wanted. There's a bunch of land in the West and Southwest that I'm sure isn't being used. Have the government set aside an adequate area, pay the landowners fair value (if the government doesn't already own it) and start building. Native Americans got lots of land for reservations, so we protect their rights. Why not give some to the Israelis? I don't think they'll find much problem here in the U.S..
Of course, Nevada isn't Jerusalem, now is it? Ahhhhhhh, what to do!
You don't think they'd find something else to fight about if israel up and dissappeared? Fighting in the middle east has been going on before israel was there, and will continue as long as radicals refuse to accept any outcome short of the jews annihilation. They are there to STAY. We need to find another solution.
As much as the Europeans critisize, I have to hand it to the americans. They have the balls to step in and do something that is unpopular but needs to be done regardless. World policemen? Maybe... but it's better than ignoring the problems right under your noses when you have the capability to stop it like many European nations do (other than the ones who are actually helping this time). You think france gives a crap about anybody down there? They WANT saddam there because they have a vested economic interest in his staying (just like america has a vested economic interest in kicking saddam out). They helped supply Israel with what they need to make nuclear weapons. For the right price they'll probably send troops to israel to help them out. Seriously. Greed is universal, not just an american trait.
I proclaim that the Europeans inaction is worse than the Americans action. Disagree if you feel like it, but they're a part of the world too and need to get involved, it's arrogant if they think it's beyond them. Getting involved for greedy reasons (Americans + Iraq) is a crime perhaps, but standing by watching genocide and civilians being oppressed when you have the capability to change it is more of a crime IMO.
America almost never gets involved and helps unless it's in their economic interest, which I think is wrong, however they're doing more than most europeans...
Essentially they're saying "Look, we're for peace!" because they don't get involved. This really gives the population an ego boost... but it doesn't mention the fact that by declining action, they're just as guilty as letting civilians die as they claim america to be. That's bad PR.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->everyone except for the Native Americans is technically an immigrant here, what's 5 million more?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're not looking back far enough. Look back a wee bit farther and you'll see that Native Americans came here just as the europeans. They just got here first.
Secondly, if you want to get "technical" about it, I <b>AM</b> a native american. I was born here. I have just as much right to live here as the indians, because even though what my ancestors did was bad, it doesn't change the fact that this is where I am from.
If you read to the end, you'll note I said the following:
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Of course, Nevada isn't Jerusalem, now is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes, I know the significance of Palestine. To me, fighting over religion is not worth all of the bloodshed. They chose to set up shop in Palestine. They had to expect a fight. Well they've had one for more than half a century. Now they expect us to help them wipe away the Arabs so they can live in peace. "Must help Israel at all costs because they are the victims here." Well I'm not willing to do that. The peaceful solution to me is NOT exterminating all of the Arabs, which seems to be the only thing Israelis think is going to work now. Give up the homeland, move the wailing wall, move whatever you want. It's just a location for crying out loud. At some point in the future it will be swallowed up and recycled into magma like everything else, so what's the point? No God, religion, or physical location is worth all of the murder and violence. I thought faith was all about that which is inside you, and is completely non-materialistic?
You are correct, I do not have a problem with Jews. I have a problem with radical Zionists who will stop at nothing to achieve their goals. No one can say that radical Zionists are an unbiased, compassionate, and peaceful people who truly want nothing more than to live in harmony with their Arab friends and neighbors. This anti-Arab racism is rampant throughout Zionism, just like anti-semitism is rampant in Arab countries. It goes both ways. I have a problem with ANY radical organization that uses violence to achieve goals. That includes Islam, the NRA, and [insert your favorite radical here.]
Unfortunately for those us in the U.S., we chose to back Israel and condemn the Arabs. Now their fight is our fight, and we keep sending our kids off to die. 114,000 of our kids died in WW1, and for what? Tens of millions of people have died over the last 100 years... many brutal, horrific, and gruesome deaths. Many times that number in shattered lives and homes. Families that won't get their fathers back. Mothers and fathers that lost their only sons. Suicides from all the pain and suffering. So many psychological problems stemming from the effects of war that they've got their own personality disorders named after them.
All for what?
We fight wars for the rich and powerful. Well, I'm tired of war. I'm sick and tired of having to live during the most hateful and war-filled chapter in human history. Enough is enough. When is it going to end? Will it end? Will anyone rise up to the challenge and use their power to achieve peace instead of war? Using war to achieve peace is simply <b>never</b> going to work, I don't care what kind of sugar coating you put on it. All we've done lately is tick off countless Arabs who will someday look to exact their revenge. You think Zionists have a right to return to their homeland? What do you say to the Taliban who want to return to Afghanistan? The Baathists who want to return to Iraq? There is no answer to these problems. War has never, and will never, solve anything. I think we have a limited amount of time to use the natural resources of this planet, and I'd really hate to be part of the society that didn't do anything to save it when they had the chance. Okay, rant mode off. Sorry.
Here is a useful site, and it's worth reading all of their information: <a href='http://www.jewsnotzionists.org' target='_blank'>Judaism has it right. Zionism does NOT.</a>
And not because it is jewish, DUH.
Let's now look atthe US. It has starteed two major wars in the last few years, unlike other major powers in the world. Peace <> War. Thus, the US is a major threat to world peace.
Iran? They might be creating WMD's, but why would they ever use them? Using WMD's will lead to repercussions from the nation under attack, or from the international community. It is suicide.
North Korea? the same.
Fact - Zionists are in it for Zion - not Middle Eastern domination. Fact - the Israeli's are firmly entrenched in the Middle East and there is nothing any nation can do about it. We have no option but to seek to help the Arabs and the Jews get along. Neither side wish to get along, but we have to try. There is no alternative.
I believe the Jews are by FAR the more reasonable of the two. At least at one stage they wished to make peace. They have now abandoned this attempt because they realise it is fruitless. There is no point in attempting to make peace with blood thirsty arabs. No one knows this better than them, because until sharon came along, they had spent all the previous years trying.
So now they oppress the nearby Arabs, and attempt to wall them out. And the Arabs have a whinge. And I laugh at their suffering. If they had come to the table at any time in the past 40 years and asked for peace, they would have had it. If the Israeli's had asked for peace, as they have been, they would have got nothing.
The Arabs are the real destabilisers here, not the Jews.
We have to be careful here... the problem is not the Jews, the problem is the Zionists. They are destabilisers, past and present. They're not alone, by any stretch of the imagination, however they are not the peaceful, innocent bystanders you make them out to be. Not today, not yesterday, not 20 years ago, not 80 years ago, not 2000 years ago. I personally don't really think there is any way to broker peace. You said it yourself, neither side wants to get along. War is inevitable. What I'm tired of is them manipulating the U.S. and allowing our soldiers to die for their cause. THAT really pisses me off.
Please read this page, it comes from a Jew who has fought Zionism for 60 years:
<a href='http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/differencejudzion.html' target='_blank'>The Difference Between Judaism and Zionism</a>
<i>"Judaism and Zionism are by no means the same. Indeed they are incompatible and irreconcilable: If one is a good Jew, one cannot be a Zionist; if one is a Zionist, one cannot be a good Jew. [...] Zionism is rebellion against God and treason to the Jewish people. [...] The Jewish nation was not born or reconstituted a generation ago by some Zionist politicians. The Jewish nation was born on Mount Sinai when the Jews by their response, 'let us do and let us hear,' adopted the Torah given to them by God for all future generations.
"Let me state also that the battle against Zionism must be waged first, not on the shores of the Mediterranean, but in Zionism's most powerful bastion -- the USA.
"As an American citizen, I deplore that our government and our politicians have adopted an attitude that is in complete contradiction to the advice of the father of our country George Washington. Instead of shying away from foreign entanglements and permanent alliances with foreign powers, the establishment in Washington has embraced Zionism so wholeheartedly that in their eyes any criticism of the Zionist state and any opposition to political Zionism in the UN by any nation has become a punishable offense. And the docile American media do not dare to speak out against such an absurdity."</i>
Oh please. Peace could have been achieved any number of times over the past 50+ years. The Palestinians are the big hinderance to peace. They cannot keep their own people under control. Israel is not blameless in this by far... But at this point Israel is not the threat to peace here. Every time Israel wants to make peace... Another suicide attack occurs ( and don't even try to say its a plot by the Zionists ). Israel has no choice but to defend itself right now. They have, and continue to show, great restraint against the Palestinians. They could wipe them all out if they choose... They could blast them back further than the Stone Age... But they do not. Israel wants peace, but they will not stand by while innocent civilians are blown up by cowardly Palestinians. Arafat is the problem here. How the heck he ever get the Nobel Peace Prize I will never know. He won't stop these terrorist organizations ( even though he could if he really tried ). He's the reason the majority of them even exist.
By saying that Israel is the greatest hinderance to peace... You're implying that its Israel's existence that is the greatest threat to peace. Israel has not initiated any war on its neighbors or the Palestinians. Israel was always the one to be attacked. Israel has always been on the defensive. Israel just wants to be left alone. It would welcome peace with the Palestinians and the other Arab neighbors... But yet again... Many of those neighbors and the Palestinians do not want peace with Israel. They want Israel to not exist at all. The burden rests on the shoulders of the Palestinians... Not Israel.
US soldiers are not dieing because of Zionist plots... Start backing up your assertions with real facts. Not statements that you want people to believe. Its getting tiring seeing all these posts with nothing but more fanatical assertions. This nation is not controlled by Zionists. We are not in Iraq because of Zionists. We are not in Afghanistan because of Zionists. Israel is not attacking the Palestinians because of Zionists.
Until you can actually provide some credible evidence ( note the key words here ) about your assertions... You have not proven anything. You are only spreading lies and half-truths.
Its ironic actually... We're both hated and loved because of that. And its not really any self-proclamation. Its more an expectation from the rest of the world because the US is the only remaining super power. Yet when the US actually does something that it wants without getting the approval of the rest of the world... Its the bad guy. Regardless of the validity of such actions.
Until you can actually provide some credible evidence ( note the key words here ) about your assertions... You have not proven anything. You are only spreading lies and half-truths. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Did you even read that page I referenced? I know you could not have, since you haven't even had time to. I started an entire topic about this, and made some progress before it got locked. I gave you another link here in this thread, discussing the problems of Zionism. I don't know what more I can do to show this to you... in fact, I don't think you actually want to see any evidence, because you don't really want to believe it. It won't matter if I take you to Israel and sit you down with Sharon and his buddies... you'll still feel the same way. I can't prove anything to closed-minded people.
Read that page, and do not comment any further until you have. If you still refuse, for whatever reason, I will no longer respond to your posts.
And that makes what you say credible how? You've provided one source ( jewsnotzionists.com ) that has amazingly similar views as yourself. Someone who is against Israel. So I still have to wonder... How is this a credible source?
So you miss the entire point... It is not about Zionists or Arabs... The point is that Israel is not the hinderance to peace, regardless of whether the government is Zionist or not. The Palestinians are the hinderance ( with the help of their Arab neighbors ).
So don't think that every single euro thinks USA is going to attack Europe and they love N-Korean government.