Lack Of Strats

Techen · October 2003

<div class="IPBDescription">I find your lack of Strategy distrubing!</div> First. I'm certain its not a huge issue for some. It does get annoying when people lock themselves in a build order now. Sure, without a doubt people ask for (or demand) DC, MO, SC.. but lets face facts. The marines are not always going to use the same path to winning why should we.

I finished a game that was to say the least, annoying. The marines did the typical alien thing. They rushed, and rushed, and rushed.. No rez was spent on an obs, just weapons and focusing on killing hives and electrifying nodes.

What I found annoying was they did these tactics for 3 games, all three games people demanded DC first. On the forth game I suggested sensory as a counter as they never put down an obs and it would catch them by surprise.

I was met with such stubberness and ignorance I was completely shocked. They screamed for DC's. I layed them out (I wasn't trying to create waves for the team.) The marines won the match. (Out rushed us.)

So what happened? The marines used the weakness of the DC chamber first strat. DC don't do much for tier 1 aliens. (Or at least not as much as sensory or movement would have.) They rushed because simply put they will only have to defeat skulks if they do it quickly enough and effeciently. They kept the pressure on the hives because they know that with DC's all we can do is heal up.

Strategy has to start taking a role in chamber choosing. At the start of every game as an alien if they want sensory. But that is because with sensory your window of "best use" is small, so if the team wants it, I maximise its usefullness by dropping one in the first couple of seconds of the game. Most of the time however, keeping an open mind before dedicating yourself to a method may be a better choice.

I do not doubt that a different chamber then DC was the answer to these past couple of games. The rines had loads of weak points. We did not evolve our tactics to take advantage of there weakness.

Confused · October 2003

yes witht eh new more balenced game teh alines truely do need to adapt more. in a scenario as you describe teh best coutner to teh marine rush i have found is the early wol, assuming you ca hold it for a bit. a wol near teh ms early in teh game with dcs can keep half the map clear for long periods. the only problem is being enough of a gorge ninja to build a wol taht has the max bang for teh buck. this is a very risky tactic, especially witha good comm and marines against you.

Necrosis · October 2003

And the best part is, the people who refuse to adapt to strategic changes are the first on the forums to whine about rines being overpowered.

Its rather unfortunate that the Kharaa picked up so many "glory hunters" who have zero idea of how to play to the game.

The_Spectre · October 2003

The main problem with adapting to what the marines do (by building sensory instead of defense(/movement), as in your example) is that the marines can easily adapt right back at you. They can easily drop 2 observatories within a minute of you dropping sensory, even if they did spend all their starting res on other things (probably an arms lab and armor lvl1) and switch to a different strat: locking down hives. Problem is, <i>you</i> can't switch back. You're stuck with sensory. Even if you do get a second hive, you'll be missing either movement or defense, and you'll have a pretty much impossible time clearing out the third hive in time, IE before the marines get a heavy train. And don't bring on things like "I will cloak in and build on the phase gate!11", because the marines will obviously build an obs there.

The marines are, quite simply, more adaptable than the aliens. Spending their starting res on an arms lab, or whatever they spent it on, instead of an obs doesn't mean they can't build an obs a little later. "Catching them by surprise" means you'll have a great benefit out of sensory for about 2 battles, after which they will have adapted too.

SpecIce · October 2003

Lets see it is called team work guys. I have been promting it for a very long time. If you don't have D chambers then why not just use a few gorges behind a ONOS? Does everyone forget that gorges heal? WHy waster your Rez on a D tower when the Gorges are essentually D towers? + there are so many people gorging now adays "EVERYONE DROP RT's" Ya that makes sense when the marines r just gonna cut them all down. But seriously you guys need to learn new tatics and not rely on the old ones. Ya sure marines could lock down both hives " WHY WOULD you let them? ANd B YA they can scan sweep the area but They will most likely get AMBUSHED a few times b4 Hand. ALIENS WORK TOGETHER YOU IDIOTS MARINES learned how now you have to

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'> <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'> " OMG I GOT KILLED #$#@ HACKERS how the @#@$ I ONLY RUSHED AT THEM ONOS can't die

Necrosis · October 2003

Dropping sens first forces him to spend that res - forces him to ping areas for skulks.

Meantime you can use SoF or standard cloaking. SoF means more cohesive skulk attacks, cloaking means ambushes in areas far from SC. Hell, you can cloak-walk your way right up to the rines and they don't sniff you.

If you MC next, then you have Silence and Cloaking - the ambush strat. Celerity and SoF for fast response, and adrenaline for the gorges or lerks.

If instead you choose DC, you can have cara skulks to withstand some LMG fire (combined with cloaking this can tip things in your favour), regen for sustained assaults, or redeem for those two hive onos/fades who you can't afford to lose.

IMHO SC as first chamber is only as limiting as you let it be.

2_of_Eight · October 2003

I don't like MC. I get it 3rd, never 1st or 2nd.
I love SC! It's so thrilling to parasite several rines at base on ns_origin, wait in the vents for them to go to Computer Lab or Laser Drilling, and then jump down behind them and bite-bite-free res! <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>
DC is good because you don't have to run back to the hive to heal - regeneration does it for you. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

gekigarion · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The main problem with adapting to what the marines do (by building sensory instead of defense(/movement), as in your example) is that the marines can easily adapt right back at you. They can easily drop 2 observatories within a minute of you dropping sensory, even if they did spend all their starting res on other things (probably an arms lab and armor lvl1) and switch to a different strat: locking down hives. Problem is, you can't switch back. You're stuck with sensory. Even if you do get a second hive, you'll be missing either movement or defense, and you'll have a pretty much impossible time clearing out the third hive in time, IE before the marines get a heavy train. And don't bring on things like "I will cloak in and build on the phase gate!11", because the marines will obviously build an obs there.

The marines are, quite simply, more adaptable than the aliens. Spending their starting res on an arms lab, or whatever they spent it on, instead of an obs doesn't mean they can't build an obs a little later. "Catching them by surprise" means you'll have a great benefit out of sensory for about 2 battles, after which they will have adapted too. </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

There's one reason why Techen mentioned Sensory as being the counter to marine rush. Let me list each chamber's use:

Defense: Hit-and-run and the ability to stay far away from hive without dying quickly. In other words, although it may seems strange, Defense is primarily offensive early game.

Movement: Silence to substitute for cloaking, and Celerity for confusion among the marines. Very, very offensive.

Sensory: Used to stop marine expansion. Marines have a lot of trouble even getting into a room with a Sensory chamber and skulks in it.

The reason DC does not work against marine rush is because if marines are rushing, there's not much use in learning regen as you'll be sitting near the hive often, and if they use shotguns there will be more hit-and-die attacks than hit-and-run.

Sensory, on the other hand, stops marine expansion. That means, if you use Sensory very effectively, it will take a very competent and skilled marine team to break into even one of your hives so they can lock it down. Do you know why hive lockdown is so effective against Sensory? It's because Sensory is used to keep marines from getting in, but if the marines get in, don't expect it to get them back out. If the marines get into a location and secure it, the kharaa team failed to utilise Sensory's abilities effectively, or the marines countered efficiently.

Here's how you stop marine expansion:
SoF will allow you to get into good ambush positions.
Marines can't walk into a room with an SC and skulks and expect to get out scot-free. Even with a shotgun, all is takes is a skulk to get you from behind and you're gone.

Since you can't make use of either of these once the marines have occupied the room, it's best to do a good job in not letting them into the room in the first place. If you expect them to take the room, go Movement or Defense. (I know many hate movement, but trying seeing what two Celerity skulks, an Adrenaline healing gorge, and an Adrenaline lerk can do to a squad of 5-6 marines)

Cold_NiTe · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (confused! @ Oct 11 2003, 05:11 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> yes witht eh new more balenced game teh alines truely do need to adapt more. in a scenario as you describe teh best coutner to teh marine rush i have found is the early wol, assuming you ca hold it for a bit. a wol near teh ms early in teh game with dcs can keep half the map clear for long periods. the only problem is being enough of a gorge ninja to build a wol taht has the max bang for teh buck. this is a very risky tactic, especially witha good comm and marines against you.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Yeah you only have so much res to build that WoL, unless you get multiple gorges, then you can get a full sized WoL.

ZERG · October 2003

Sensory sucks for the following reasons:

You lose either MC or DC and both are critical for higher evolutions. If marines know you got sense they will begin locking down at least 1 hive and possibly 2 (usually 2, beware). It is easy to lock down 2 hives against sense.

The upgrades blow for higher evolutions and only 2/3 are even worth their res.

Stoneburg · October 2003

Yes by dropping a Sensory you force the COM to spend res on observatories. He spends 20-60 res on observatories, you lose. Res well spent.

incin · October 2003

Yeah, but this post was about a specific situation, and now we are getting back into the whole "isn't DC so good and SC sucks" which, although it may be true, was not what this topic is about. The situation discussed was a marine tactic which they would undoubtably use, and could be easily stopped. But because everyone believes that DC is the only way to win, the aliens lose.

This is because of the lack of adaptability, and the blind belief in DCs and that "SC ARE ONLY FOR N00BS!!11!!!!11". I'd agree that DC are best in most situations, but always following the same strat... :shudder:

Sakura · October 2003

I am not going into the whole chamber debate here, but I must agree with Techen. It seems to me, that aliens seem to have lost their ability to adapt, which actually should have been their greatest advantage. Perhaps it is the human curse of learning by trial and error. When a NS player tries a strategy and it fails, he naturally assumes, that it is because the strategy does not work, and thus he does not try it again. If he tris something and it does work, then he will try and use the same strategy over and over, because it has proved itself to work. It seldom occur to people that a strategy might work differently under other conditions or that it indeed might not work at all.

I think perhaps that computer games have contributed to this behavioural pattern, as computer controlled characters or advesaries almost always respond to a certain strategy in the same way. When you have found a strategy that works, it works the same way every time.

It is funny how people can be so frozen within a frameset when playing a game that is all about evolution. Natural selection also applies to the gaming world, and it is those players who are able to percieve a situation and adapt to it, who will end up as winners in our own little society...

FlashFrog · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sakura @ Oct 13 2003, 08:15 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> When a NS player tries a strategy and it fails, he naturally assumes, that it is because the strategy does not work  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Well... yeah. But you seem to be implying that the strat doesn't work because the NSPlaya simply sucks at it. People forget to encompass ALL players when making these kinds of arguements. The hatred of sensory didn't come about on a whim, people tried it, they tried other stuff, the other stuff worked a <i>little</i> better most of the time, so they usually decide to err on the side of caution and save sens for the end of the game.

I do think that putting SC up first has the potential to make for a quick alien win, but I'm not gonna drop it without asking, no siree bob....

Don't forget, by definition, evolution happens slowly and gradually.

Necrosis · October 2003

It depends. There's a school of evolutionary theory that suggests things happen in sudden dramatic spurts. Such as marines finding an excellent strat and it spreading like wildfire.

MadcapMagician · October 2003

If:
you don't like/care about winning
stacked the teams and know for sure you'll win
just plain enjoy sensory
want a challenge

then go right ahead and drop sensory.

The fact remains, it is harder to win with sensory. If you want to win why would you make it any harder on yourself.

This didn't just magically occur to anyone in a dream. It is the result of months of playing. People noticed they win more/bigger when they don't use sensory first. Sensory first proved to be a weaker strategy and it died out. What chamber you drop first isn't luck, its the result of natural selection where the fittest survive.

The_Spectre · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (incin @ Oct 13 2003, 06:44 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Yeah, but this post was about a specific situation, and now we are getting back into the whole "isn't DC so good and SC sucks" which, although it may be true, was not what this topic is about. The situation discussed was a marine tactic which they would undoubtably use, and could be easily stopped. But because everyone believes that DC is the only way to win, the aliens lose.

This is because of the lack of adaptability, and the blind belief in DCs and that "SC ARE ONLY FOR N00BS!!11!!!!11". I'd agree that DC are best in most situations, but always following the same strat... :shudder:  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Marines can <i>change</i> the situation.

Yes, if the marines just keep doing what they're doing, what they would do against d or m, of course the aliens will win. However, if they know how to play the game, they're going to <i>change their strategy</i> when they see sensory. This gives them a much better chance than if the aliens had gone D first and they'd stuck with their original strat.

If the marines are completely single minded and you know for sure that <i>they</i> won't adapt to what <i>you</i> do, by all means go sensory. But I would say you're playing against bad marines if that was true. All decent marine commanders will respond with an observatory and a change of strategy the moment they hear the aliens are using sensory.

Necrosis · October 2003

If you get second hive up very quickly (ie good dedicated hoarder) then sens first is very viable, since by the time rines figure out they're getting squeezed, second hive is up and with it your upgrades.

Secondly, how long does it take to build some obs and ping every waypoint, or research MT? Takes a while... and its a good diversion of res.

Deacon · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (The_Spectre @ Oct 13 2003, 05:14 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> Marines can <i>change</i> the situation.
 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Marines are actually even slightly better at this than the aliens.

A major strategy shift on the marine team just requires that the commander make a decision. A major strategy shift on the alien team requires buy-in from most of the team (at least on public servers).

Machiavelli · October 2003

I find it very funny that people are still trying to figure out which is the "best" chamber. It is like trying to figure out what is the "best" gun in a deathmatch game. Sure that rocket launcher does more damage, but what if you come around a corner and the guy is right infront of you'll wish you had a shotgun instead. What people need to learn is that each chamber is better then another in differnt siguations. The "debate" over what is the best chamber will go on forever, because there isn't one. So, just sit back, get good with cloaking, celerity, and carapace as a skulk, because there will be many times where you will use each. (I know a lot of people use scent of fear, or scilence, or regen as skulks as well, and I'm not putting you down here, I just didn't want to type out each and every upgrade)

Stoneburg · October 2003

As Spectre said, Marines can adapt very quickly and very easily. Aliens can adapt somewhat, but not to the same extent (can't undrop a chamber) and not as quickly. I was actually in *precisely* this situation a few days ago, when I was comming on caged.

We rush immediatly to Central P. and get set up. It's my standard thing on that map, reloc to Cenhral and then jut hit the alien nodes/hives until upgrades are done. However, only AFTER I spent all my res did we find out they had sensory. We were getting owned left and right. First obs goes up ASAP and we get back in the game but I am playing awful. I didn't notice they put up a second hive until skulks were leaping (6 mins inot the game) and I *completely* forgot to upgrade tha armory for a few more minutes. Two times did I start to build big outposts, then the Marines decided to keel over and die or run away, leaving my huge res investments to die.

Anyway, we won. We just denied the Aliens the third hive. Didn't even defend it really, we just rushed in and took it out 3 times while it was building, Aliens went DC and it is very hard to move around between the hives for Aliens without MC. So we teched up and walked in to kill the hives finally with HA. Took 30+ minutes mainly because I sucked as com but we still won.

gekigarion · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I find it very funny that people are still trying to figure out which is the "best" chamber. It is like trying to figure out what is the "best" gun in a deathmatch game. Sure that rocket launcher does more damage, but what if you come around a corner and the guy is right infront of you'll wish you had a shotgun instead. What people need to learn is that each chamber is better then another in differnt siguations. The "debate" over what is the best chamber will go on forever, because there isn't one. So, just sit back, get good with cloaking, celerity, and carapace as a skulk, because there will be many times where you will use each. (I know a lot of people use scent of fear, or scilence, or regen as skulks as well, and I'm not putting you down here, I just didn't want to type out each and every upgrade) </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I should give you a medal for genius <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

Guys, if you don't understand his point here, refer to my post that I made in the first page of this thread.

asunder · October 2003

<sigh>

The problem with sensory is that no one wants to adapt to a new strategy. Everone wants their precious DC and they adapt to the other chambers.

For example, one time we decided to go sens first. However, other people werent using it. They just kept on charging at the marines with vanilla skulks instead of hitting them while cloaked and running away in the confusion. Also, none of them saved for a hive (which is vital if you're gonna go sens first).

Again, it's a lack of openess to change.

Stoneburg · October 2003

If you had any powers of observation you would notice that out of the people on this forum that actually <b>know</b> what they are talking about, a <b>vast</b> majority thinks SC is a bad choice for first chamber.

If you look at the people in good clans, they <b>all</b> think SC is a bad choice for first chamber.

If you check what <b>Flayra</b> has been doing, he has been trying to beef up the sensory chamber and nerf the other two.

And this complete nonsense about "not being open minded" is backfiring. The fact is that the only people who aren't understanding the different views are the pro-sensory ones. If you analyse all the arguments for and against you will see that unlike their counterparts, the people that don't want sensory first actually <b>respond</b> to and explain why sensory isn't a good choice, while the pro-sensory just repeat their debunked arguments over and over.

Now if the best players and most knowledgable posters agree, and the <b>creator</b> of the game agrees, if all the arguments for sensory has been debunked and the same group of people keep repeating that "You can <b>cloak walk</b>"... who's not being open minded?

It's embarrasing really. The majority of people who likes sensory first are n00bs of the worst kind, who's contributions to the forum are usually badly spelled inane statements that are either blatantly obvious or horibly inaccurate, the rest are just not able to process the information given to them, or basing their opinins on how he managed to beat Larry, the retarded sloth and his pet rat on some obscure server.

The latest input from the pro-sensory faction:

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>Sensory Chamber + Hive 1 = Instant Win

Why? Well why don't you get 9 aliens to cloak, they crawl into the marine base.. "Guuh, Weres are teh alienz comM? Th3y alwayz Rush!" Then suddenly.... "OMG, I'm being attacked!"</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

That's a pretty good example of the kind of Mensa members that you represent. Claiming that the counterpart is just not "open minded" enough is, I am guessing, what you have to do since there are no valid arguments for your position. The <b>intelligent</b> thing to do however would be to either change your position or actually come up with a valid argument that hasn't been debunked a million times already.

Sakura · October 2003

Before I get any complaints, this post is not directed to anyone. I use the word "you" in a non-specific sense.

As I see it, this wasn't meant to be a discussion on whether sensory chambers are viable or not. It is about why aliens have such a hard time adapting to the changing environment. I am sure any of you could dream up a situation where a gorge rush would really be effective or where it would be better if people evolved into fades even though they had res for onos. The problem is, that it is hard to identify these situations, and it is soo easy to do as you always do.

Even if you are a hardcore DC fan, it might be better to go with MC in some situations because marines play in such a way and your team and the map is put together in such a way, that MC would give more advantages. But chances are, that you will go anyway with the DC because that is what you always do.

I agree that the lack of organised communication on the alien team makes this problem even worse. It is difficult to change strategy mid-game. It is difficult to even *have* a strategy in pubs. Mostly each individual alien follow it's own ideas and only if someone is strong enough to get a strategy explained in 5 words and generally accepted will the aliens actually have something that resembles a plan. Or if a group of players have been playing together some games on a server, they develop some sort of "best practise" which works just like a plan. A plan, however sketchy, can work wonders for a team, because it enables team work, and therefore it is not completely stupid to stick with the plan (or the best practises) even though it doesn't work perfectly - the alternative is anarchy and a risk of killing team work. If aliens had a way of quickly creating consensus for a new plan, they would probably be more adaptive.

Geronimo · October 2003

If you cant stop marines with DCs, you cant stop them with MCs or SC, simple...

DC = Carapace for skulks, just as in 1.x and redemtion for gorges and then you won...

A regen skulk dont take one more bullet in combat than the clean skulk, but the carapaced one does...
Redemtion on gorges makes you almost invincible if you dont run into large groups, and maybe then too...

With carapce I can kill 3 or 4 skilled players as a skulk, where I would survive to kill one at most otherwise. Rambos usually either camp you, where neither regen nor carapace help or they are just lame and hit maybe one bullet...

Groups of marines will kill you unless you kill all of them, if you kill one and move, then they will be waaiting for you next time, and without carapce you die...simple.

Sensories requires you to hold and defend an area long enough for the gorge to get cloaking , and after that keep a constant stream of skulks coming to defend(no DCs) and thats hard.
Movement are useful since you are able to move about the map very fast and silence and clerity ownz for skulks, but fades and onos' really need regen later and if you fail to get a hive early on youre done for...

This is why DCs rock all the time everywhere...

Sure, sensories can be nice, but a skilled comm can scan important places, use phasegates tfs and obs to make slow and weak skulks helpless...

Forlorn · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (asunder @ Oct 14 2003, 06:06 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> The problem with sensory is that no one wants to adapt to a new strategy. Everone wants their precious DC and they adapt to the other chambers.  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
Not that Stoneburg already owned you all in this debate, but I'm going to take my free punches:

That's right! We all have personal agenda's which involve advocating DC's over all other chambers. I can't believe you found us out. While your at it, why don't you go to our super secret website, www.dchambersrulz.com, and make fun of us there, where us losers sit around all day talking about how D chambers rulz over all others and Sensory chambers suck the big one.

asunder · October 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Oct 14 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
A regen skulk dont take one more bullet in combat than the clean skulk, but the carapaced one does...
Redemtion on gorges makes you almost invincible if you dont run into large groups, and maybe then too...
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

(A)cloaked skulk/s is supposed to kill the marine before he attacks then kill more/escape in the confusion. Avoid damage by dealing it.

Yep, redeption on gorges rules. With sensory, you need skulk cover to get away cloaked.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Oct 14 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
With carapce I can kill 3 or 4 skilled players as a skulk, where I would survive to kill one at most otherwise. Rambos usually either camp you, where neither regen nor carapace help or they are just lame and hit maybe one bullet...
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

I can do that too with cloak, just time it right. Cloak also allows skulk teams to position themselves (preferably to surround the marines)

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Oct 14 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Groups of marines will kill you unless you kill all of them, if you kill one and move, then they will be waaiting for you next time, and without carapce you die...simple.
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

They wait, thus they don't move and you hamper their progress. Hell, this is true even without DC. If you don't kill all marines you die. Even with redempt, if they concentrate fire you can still die a lot.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Oct 14 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Sensories requires you to hold and defend an area long enough for the gorge to get cloaking , and after that keep a constant stream of skulks coming to defend(no DCs) and thats hard.
Movement are useful since you are able to move about the map very fast and silence and clerity ownz for skulks, but fades and onos' really need regen later and if you fail to get a hive early on youre done for...
</td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

It's not exactly defending. It's attacking them with their backs turned. Instead of regen, you can get you mobile DC, the gorge to heal you.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Oct 14 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
if you fail to get a hive early on youre done for...
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That's sensory's weakness.

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Geronimo @ Oct 14 2003, 08:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
Sure, sensories can be nice, but a skilled comm can scan important places, use phasegates tfs and obs to make slow and weak skulks helpless... </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

You're supposed to kill them while they're building all those or when they're on their way. And when he scans, run. The scan doesnt last long enough for them to make an obs in that area

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Oct 14 2003, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
a vast majority thinks SC is a bad choice for first chamber.

If you look at the people in good clans, they all think SC is a bad choice for first chamber.
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Go bandwagon!

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Oct 14 2003, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
The majority of people who likes sensory first are n00bs of the worst kind, who's contributions to the forum are usually badly spelled inane statements that are either blatantly obvious or horibly inaccurate, the rest are just not able to process the information given to them, or basing their opinins on how he managed to beat Larry, the retarded sloth and his pet rat on some obscure server.
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i despise those people

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stoneburg @ Oct 14 2003, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>
The latest input from the pro-sensory faction:
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Wow, put all pro-sensory ppl in the same box!

I'm not saying that sensory RULES OVER ALL CHAMBERS LIKE AN HA RULES OVER GORGES. People should just use it once in a while instead of casting it in a corner.

Stoneburg · October 2003

People are using it once in a while. When the alien team is stacked and they want to give Marines a chance, when a n00b gorge just dropped sensory without asking, when the team is tired of the same M/D or D/M startegy and feel like doing something different or when Spectre accidentally drops a sensory chamber instead of a res node.

So you can safely stop complaining now <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

Bugler · October 2003

Stoneburg is like a super size at mickey d's..... it leaves a real bad taste is your mouth.

You call out people for being irrational sc supporters, yet you post constant manure like this:

"It's embarrasing really. The majority of people who likes sensory first are n00bs of the worst kind, who's contributions to the forum are usually badly spelled inane statements that are either blatantly obvious or horibly inaccurate, the rest are just not able to process the information given to them, or basing their opinins on how he managed to beat Larry, the retarded sloth and his pet rat on some obscure server."

then you proceed to tell us about how you had this awesome game and you came back and beat sensory.

The simple truth is, its very hard to beat a organized team of cloaked skulks. Say they throw up a sc early on eclipse, a couple of them upgrade cloaking, and wait in the halls outside the marine base. Oh right, youll say the comm can just comsat, but first off, does he really know where to comsat before the marines are attacked? No. And if he does afterwards, the marines have already been killed. If the aliens are good, theyll switch up their ambush points. Theres no way to comsat every time a train of marines walks to a point on the map- sure you can comsat once they reach that point( say a hive they're trying to lock down) but thats the point- they dont get there- since a good alien team will hit them on the way there. Also, the fact that SC is bad at taking defended marine posts is irrelevent, since a GOOD alien team will contain the marine team around their base and allow them very few res nodes. The sc argument is by no means "debunked", perhaps in your head you've already dimissed it, but that doesnt mean its bad.

Stoneburg · October 2003

Wow, you still here? Got to give you credit for trying.

Lack Of Strats

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