Marine End Game Is Seriously Overpowered.
Flak50C
Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7247Members
Join Date: 2002-11-06 Member: 7247Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Or why acid rocket comes too late...</div> After an hour and a half game today, we were in the following situation on ns_? (forget lol): Marines held ventilation, and only that one rt. Aliens occupied 2 hives ( biodome and furnace) and all other Rts (9). With 6 onos going in groups, we could not kill off them.
Neither side had players that sucked... lerks were constantly harrassing the marines with gas (those who weren't in heavy at that point).
What really annoyed me was that a coordinated effort with SIX (9v9 game) onos could not take down a marine base.
We tried various stomping devouring, splitting the onos group up to go two directions (3 each) and more. NOTHING gave us any headway. Their several GLs kept gorges from bile bombing.
So from this insanely overpowering position in location and resources the aliens ended up losing, and I garuntee you it had NOTHING to do with the skill of the players.
Eventually, the marines used ha in vents from ventilation to biodome to build inside and siege it (problem being onos couldn't do anything to them). But this was a full half an hour of them with only one rt and we lost because we couldn't do anything.
The problem isn't with the costs of stuff necessarily, the issue is fundamentally that aliens lack a powerful long range attack at two hives. The onos, even with celerity could not close with 3 (THREE) hmgs (vs 6 onos) through a fairly short run WITH OR WITHOUT UMBRA. I'm not exaggerating. 6 onos vs several turrets a lmg or two and 3 hmgs IN UMBRA could not close the 30 or so feet and get away with wacking down more then one turret.
Acid rocket needs to find its way back to hive 2.
Neither side had players that sucked... lerks were constantly harrassing the marines with gas (those who weren't in heavy at that point).
What really annoyed me was that a coordinated effort with SIX (9v9 game) onos could not take down a marine base.
We tried various stomping devouring, splitting the onos group up to go two directions (3 each) and more. NOTHING gave us any headway. Their several GLs kept gorges from bile bombing.
So from this insanely overpowering position in location and resources the aliens ended up losing, and I garuntee you it had NOTHING to do with the skill of the players.
Eventually, the marines used ha in vents from ventilation to biodome to build inside and siege it (problem being onos couldn't do anything to them). But this was a full half an hour of them with only one rt and we lost because we couldn't do anything.
The problem isn't with the costs of stuff necessarily, the issue is fundamentally that aliens lack a powerful long range attack at two hives. The onos, even with celerity could not close with 3 (THREE) hmgs (vs 6 onos) through a fairly short run WITH OR WITHOUT UMBRA. I'm not exaggerating. 6 onos vs several turrets a lmg or two and 3 hmgs IN UMBRA could not close the 30 or so feet and get away with wacking down more then one turret.
Acid rocket needs to find its way back to hive 2.
Comments
But consider. When you knew they had achieved roughly critical mass with the number of heavies yall should have pulled back and gathered your strength to destroy them. How? Who knows, YOU figure it out <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> but this way you can ideally have the strength and coordination of the entire alien team at your disposal.
Also you say the lerks were gassing, me thinks they should have umbrad the assault instead.
So far I have never had a problem finishing off the marines aside from crappy aliens. The only time I've had trouble is when the marines relocate to an onos unfriendly area like sewer on ns_mineshaft.
The problem was that the marines were free to roam longer or smaller spots unchecked because you can't get to them as onos. In that case they only need one marine because skulks sure aren't getting to him (fades only avoid death by their wild movement which in a straight vent doesn't help).
There is not a strategy we did not try to even gain so much headway as taking out TWO turrets a run. Marines own endgame, period. No more upgrades to spend on just pump weapons/armor.
Yes this was 2.01e, so regardless of light damage we were getting owned by something. Acid rockets are not the end all like a grenade launcher can be... they just weaken everything (heavies armor mostly) so they are managable by onos.
I didn't read the last paragraph
There is a VENT leading from biodome to ventilation.
Now this has some points:
HA can access these vents easy.
Onos cannot go in vents.
Fades are not enough to take out heavies easily.
Gorges, Lerks, and Skulks fit nicely but get shredded up by HA.
On pretty much any other location on any other map 6 onos's would have run over the above setup pretty easily, however, the way that biodome is designed hurts the onos, not the power of the marine end game.
That aliens let the marines have several RTs,the comm SAVED for the turret farm,has,gls,hmgs,etc(how he did this without being ejected for refusing to try and fight back is a big question mark).
Ive tried doing the farm + ha thing before.
NEVER works unless by some miracle(like say redempt onos wiping out 4 rts by himself and marines not being able to phase/respond fast enough when we were winning and we had sustainable HAs and res saved up).You cant save up for turret farm + ha on one rt....at least 3-4 are needed....and the marines must have it for quite some time....
Oh btw that example you gave is flawed becasue it is due to bad map design.
Anyway, in MY crap-**** game the rines were holed up in Biodome, and we could - not - touch them. Turret farm combined with JP/GL meant that no gorges could survive long enough to bile ANYTHING from either under the elevator south-side or above the elevator west-side. The TF was built on TOP of the pillars there, making it onos immune.
So they sat up there, armories built on pillars and all, and kept teams of GL spamming the entrances.
With 9 rt's and a team of 6 decent aliens, we could NOT wear them down fast enough. Coordianted 4 onos, 1 lerk, and 1 gorge strikes = dead. 5 onos, 1 lerk = dead. 3 onos, 2 gorge, 1 lerk = dead. Farm ate up weak ones, unreachable GL spam slayed onos <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
Acid rocket really SHOULD be back to hive 2.
It quickly gets expensive...
This should be glued to every MOTD around the world.
You did read the bit where he said that doing both of those were ineffective?
a team full of stupid onoses without bilebombing gorges and umbraing lerks can do ****.
"You did read the bit where he said that doing both of those were ineffective?"
LMAO, we didn't need to read it, we know it already. Xenocide clears out more bases than any onos will. I note there's no mention of Scream, another heavily influential game winner.
Finally, if your only solution to getting pwned is to cry for old outdated versions of the mod, then you'll NEVER win. Look back on your loss and learn important things - onos are not teh win, whoring gas from a doorway will not empty a marine base.
Recently, playing aliens, we had the rines pinned into powersilo which was turreted up to the gills and was only tow narrow entrances in which makes a redept onos rush practically impossible. We broke the seige beacuse i was a regen onos and basically ran for the centre of their base and hit everything and everyone i could. Obviously i died but i lasted long enought for the rest of the team (oni and gorge) to pile in and finish the base in the confusion. the sam tactic would never work with redemp.
a team full of stupid onoses without bilebombing gorges and umbraing lerks can do ****.
"You did read the bit where he said that doing both of those were ineffective?"
LMAO, we didn't need to read it, we know it already. Xenocide clears out more bases than any onos will. I note there's no mention of Scream, another heavily influential game winner.
Finally, if your only solution to getting pwned is to cry for old outdated versions of the mod, then you'll NEVER win. Look back on your loss and learn important things - onos are not teh win, whoring gas from a doorway will not empty a marine base.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think you <b>should</b> read it, if the marines were holed up in vent how can you xeno or scream? GL spam is still an issue.
ns_origen is a very marine powerful map!
The whole map is set so that if you don't get start in that hive (not furnace or Biodome.. the other one) you will have to all be fades, because there is only 1 way to that hive where you can be an ONOS and even then its a choke point where you will never get past as an ONOS.
I have seen aliens win there alot but in 2.01d,e its ALOT harder because the marines are on equal ground with the kharaa.
This is just a case of a map where the Onos (the tank) isn't very helpful when attacking locked down hives. (1 in particular)
Have to agree with Ollj on this one.
You have 6 redemption Onos and whine about not being able to finish them? Shesh.
With 6 regen cows and some umbra you could have taken out a couple of HA and strucures before you died. With 9 res nodes vs 1, you will be able to get the cows back before they can replace the HA.
Sounds more like a case of stupid alien players then anything wrong with the game.
With 9/1 res, you can almost afford to lose an onos for every turret you kill. If you weren't too afraid to lose your precious (and worthless) onos you'd have won it easy.
hahahah
Exactly what I thought.
6 regen onos would never die under umbra, esp. if played properly, and esp. only to 3 HMGs.
You've become weird lately Mr Oli :-p
Rinse and repeat until HA is gone.
Then spore to death.
End of game.
I would think that by the time the Onos players got killed and had to choose thier abilities and re-onos...the marines would of moved out and crept closer to a hive. And with regeneration, your **** can be easily chased down...especially in that game he played in.
That's just my opinion. I would of tried to make an attempt to grab the 3rd hive. At least like a strike force of skulks or whatever and a suicide gorge to rush in and build Offense Chambers (unless if they have siege) hehe. <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
but I wasn't in that game, so i don't know
i would say that what their team needed was to recognize taht going onos wasnt going to save thema nd instead take biodome back. ( took out the t fac 3 times but never got teh whole job done) and hardly ever more than 2 aliens atatcking bio dome at once.
also no wol protecting their flank was a bad choice
i would argue that the game in question was won becuase the marines were tencious and that the aliens kept trying the same thing over and over. whichw as rushing our hmg with redeeming onoses. their lerk also didnt seem to understand taht ha didnt take dangae from gas but hey.
mistakes were made. like can a skulk rushing at marine in a vent really beat a level 3 shottie the answer is no. any way enjoy
How many of these do we all read each day.
Its a personal opinion and nothing we say will change a stone headed opinion.