Well Confuzor I'm with Legion here. Christianity is a personal relationship between you and Jesus. It has absolutely nothing to do with your family. If what they say make you not want to be a Christian, then maybe your faith is based more on them then on Christ.
Admittedly, I myself had a huge problem with people in my Church. The young folk would come in, sing, do all the charasmatics, and then later at Hungry Jacks they be swearing, feeling eachother up, telling dirty stories and generally being losers. The hypocracy eventually lead to me stopping attendance, and certainly if people asked me if I was a Christian I denied it.
But then I read a good book by C.S Lewis called the Screwtape letters. And it was kind of a "demons handbook", written as one demon giving another demon tips on how to keep his "subject" away from faith. And in it, the older demon tells the younger one that perhaps his greatest weapon is other Christians.
Indirect quote. "Keep him focus'd upon his fellow Christians. Try and divert his attention from the good that they do, try and hold it upon their failings. Try to disgust him with their hypocracy, make him feel ashamed to be associated with them."
EDIT Absentic ffs GIVE IT A REST. Just leave the forums for a week man, it will save someone having to come along and ban you. You WILL not insult the moderators, or you will be removed. I think they do an excellent jobs and it drives me nuts to see some 13 year old with an attitude problem walk into our forums and give them cheek. I'm not trying to do the moderators job, just letting of steam at your adolescent stupidity.
You may not be 13, but you appear to have that age level of maturity. You simply dont talk back to moderators. If you have a problem with them, then take it up with them in a pm. Dont give smart alec replies. If you have had your post edited, chances are you HAVE done something wrong. If you disagree, take it up with the moderator in question. Dont just be rude and question the intelligence of the people who select Marik as a moderator.
Marik is a highly respected member of the NS community, and with your attitude, lack of respect for other members of the board and general rudeness, you're not. And you're not likely to last long enough to get respect. Given that you cant even see what you have done wrong, I dont think you have a hope.
Perhaps a reread of the forum rules might help you in your understanding of what you did wrong. Now I'm probably gonna get hammered for doing the moderators job...
these disscusion boards are kept in such good order (and dont turn into 'argument boards') because of the mods and peoples respect for each other... *stares* <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo--> [/offtopic]
<!--QuoteBegin--absentic+Sep 15 2003, 05:54 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (absentic @ Sep 15 2003, 05:54 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Stop the brownnosing man :o) Hes just a moderator, not a god. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ, they are very much gods, and my little shrine to Nem should be proof enough, plus you should see coil turn water into wine.....or is that he drinks wine like it was water, well no matter.
on topic. Organized relegion is a farce, it was used as a control measure in Europe to limit education and keep the masses subdued. Having faith has nothing to do with belonging to an orginization, pure faith is limitless and unconfined by any rules or doctrine, you can achieve commune with deities independently pure and simple.
<!--QuoteBegin--kida+Sep 14 2003, 12:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 14 2003, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I told her and them, "you guys are hardcore christians..." My dad was kinda dissapointed with that remark so he said to me, "Since you have a pretty big conscience, I hope you live with the fact that God will judge you for that comment," like WTH! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I think he was disappointed by the fact that you were treating their faith so flippantly.
<!--QuoteBegin--dr.d+Sep 15 2003, 07:09 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (dr.d @ Sep 15 2003, 07:09 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> on topic. Organized relegion is a farce, it was used as a control measure in Europe to limit education and keep the masses subdued. Having faith has nothing to do with belonging to an orginization, pure faith is limitless and unconfined by any rules or doctrine, you can achieve commune with deities independently pure and simple. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.
Too many times have I seen it be said that organised religion is a control measure, that is quite frankly absurd. Whilst religion and faith can be used to control people's minds and wills that hardly ever happens now in Western Society, many people gain comfort in the fact that they worship in their faith together with others, they enjoy worship and collectively bettering themselves in their faith.
Organised religion has been used to dominate, but fortunately this is no longer the case, people are now more widely read, and have access to a greater array of theological and philosophical theories so that they can challenge their faith, and adapt it to how the answer the question of "life, the universe, and everything." Religion was indeed forces upon people by the state, but this was to keep the people at the top where they were, and the people at the bottom where they were, now, thanks to the type of world we live in, it no longer serves that purpose and it helps most people who subscribe to that faith.
In these forums I have raised questions about aspects of the Christian Faith, not to try and mock it and "prove" to everyone that it is rubbish and outdated and that I am right. I try and question the Christian Faith in order to find my own, and to see how others deal with such questions and keep their faith, because, quite frankly, I am envious of a person that has studied philosophy and theology and can keep their faith.
Either way, back to the main point.
You were fully entitled to not go to Church, if it truly gets to you that you feel you are going to be judged then speak to your minister, if it doesn't then don't worry mate - people have done a lot worse things than go to Church.
Did you complete ignore the second part of that short paragraph where I said having faith was a good thing? I was stating the origins of organized relegion and just because it survived as an institution has little to do with it having any merit in someone's faith.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
was directed at you.
The rest was directed at the masses who say that Organised Religion now is a bad thing.
<!--QuoteBegin--Josiah Bartlet+Sep 15 2003, 08:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josiah Bartlet @ Sep 15 2003, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am envious of a person that has studied philosophy and theology and can keep their faith. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> I studies Philosophy at AS level, and it only strengthened my faith. Seeing all these philosopheres searching for "the truth" and never finding it, then realising that I had found the answers to all the questions anybody could ever think of... well...
<!--QuoteBegin--Z.X. Bogglesteinsky+Sep 15 2003, 08:21 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Z.X. Bogglesteinsky @ Sep 15 2003, 08:21 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Josiah Bartlet+Sep 15 2003, 08:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josiah Bartlet @ Sep 15 2003, 08:46 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I am envious of a person that has studied philosophy and theology and can keep their faith. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I studies Philosophy at AS level, and it only strengthened my faith. Seeing all these philosopheres searching for "the truth" and never finding it, then realising that I had found the answers to all the questions anybody could ever think of... well...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I am studying Philosophy at A2 right now and the only arguments that I can find that are strong are those who are for a creator but show that you can't prove the attributes that Christians give their God.
Either way John Stuart Mill r0xx0r5 j00r b0x3r5 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Today is sunday, the sabbath day, the day which we Christians are suppose to keep holy. Anyway, our church doesn't own a building, instead we rent from another church. The church that owned the building was doing something special today and so we had to go to another church to hold service, 30 minutes away...Seeing how our particular church takes forever to finish services and fellowship, I told my mom and dad that I didn't want to go because: 1) the drive was 30 minutes and back. 2) I had some physics, english, and math to catch up. 3) I didn't want to go just to have a quick 30 minute lesson with my sunday school teacher, along with the other 3 guys. 4) I didn't want to spend another 2 hours just lingering around the church.
My mom was like, "NO!!!NO!!You have to go, or else God will be very unhappy..blablabla...It is a sin..." and I was like, "so when is it a sin not to go to church..blablabla<insert communication problem> (she has bad english). My mom totally freaked outt when I didn't want to go to church, she doesn't understand that as a human, I have the right to go or not. My dad was so cool with it, he was like, "Ok, thats fine, just do a little personal prayer and whatnot with God, and do your homework." My mom can be soooo stubborn and ignorant, no wonder her faith is soooo strong. She kept telling me I had to go...ARRRGHH...<brain explodes>....
So I was on the computer playing cs while they were leaving and my sister was mocking me, because I wasn't doing my homework. The time was 2:00 P.M and service started at 3:00 P.M. It had been so long since I had played cs and already, they said something about it. So my mom said her last ditch attempts to persuade me and I told her and them, "you guys are hardcore christians..." My dad was kinda dissapointed with that remark so he said to me, "Since you have a pretty big conscience, I hope you live with the fact that God will judge you for that comment," like WTH! My sister was like, "your going to hell." So they all left and I said to myself, "what did I do wrong?"
If I hadn't grown up in a Christian family, I would probably be an atheist. As of right now, I am doubting my very own religious beliefs. I know there is a God, but Christians, like my family showed me today, deter non beleivers from the Allmighty. If I remember, Jesus said, "Judge and be Judged." There have been many a time, where I didn't believe in God for a while, but I kept on coming back to him for some reason.
Moral of the story: Some people can really force down your throat their religious principles, like some of my family did today, especially my mom.
I really don't know what will happen when I move out of the house, I might not even attend church anymore, seriously.
EDIT: Some really stupid errors <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Note: I haven't read any posts after the first.
Well, Kida, I think this is a prime example of what people don't understand about the Christian religion- it has almost ZIP to do with the church. Everything Christ teaches is one's PERSONAL SELF RELATIONSHIP with God. Not Church then God, and so on.
In the process, staying home from church once in a while is just fine, as long as you have your daily dose of God.
Your mother seems to have been raised in a very strict Church household in which because her parents/guardians couldn't control her, told her that she'd go to hell unless she was really sick or something, which is VERY untrue.
Really, the only reason as a Christian to go to church is to find other, more experienced, Christians, to learn from, and also to help one another(also called "Fellowship"). Other than that, it really is just a social gathering.
Another thing your mom probably doesn't realize, is that there is no building called "The Church". There is no "Church". A church is a place where ANY people go to focus on God. Whether its your family at home, or a baptism at your worship site, their both Churches, for your exalting God.
Really, this is just an example of someone not reading enough and understanding the Bible. I have been through many classes about the Bible, where they get into translations, and stuff like that, and it turns out that A LOT of things were added in at King James' time, because his squires didn't understand enough. Oddly enough though, things still don't find any contradictories. But, as I said, just have them read more about the Bible, and stop listening to the pastor for a second. Now notice, one of my best friends is a pastor, but you gotta understand- if you guys stop going to church, that means his paycheck is smaller, so he's naturally gonna want you to stay. Well, if you pay your tithe anyway. Reading the Bible intensely will show that SOOO many things that Christians misconcept about the Bible.
-edit- And by the way, for proof, 2 things were changed in King James' translation: They added MANY lines to many books of the bible(including the ending to Revalations saying anyone adding to this will be sent to hell, because that isn't true), AND they changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So really, the sabbath is saturday.
<!--QuoteBegin--Quaunaut+Sep 15 2003, 04:56 PM --></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Quaunaut @ Sep 15 2003, 04:56 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Note: I haven't read any posts after the first.
Well, Kida, I think this is a prime example of what people don't understand about the Christian religion- it has almost ZIP to do with the church. Everything Christ teaches is one's PERSONAL SELF RELATIONSHIP with God. Not Church then God, and so on.
In the process, staying home from church once in a while is just fine, as long as you have your daily dose of God.
Your mother seems to have been raised in a very strict Church household in which because her parents/guardians couldn't control her, told her that she'd go to hell unless she was really sick or something, which is VERY untrue.
Really, the only reason as a Christian to go to church is to find other, more experienced, Christians, to learn from, and also to help one another(also called "Fellowship"). Other than that, it really is just a social gathering.
Another thing your mom probably doesn't realize, is that there is no building called "The Church". There is no "Church". A church is a place where ANY people go to focus on God. Whether its your family at home, or a baptism at your worship site, their both Churches, for your exalting God.
Really, this is just an example of someone not reading enough and understanding the Bible. I have been through many classes about the Bible, where they get into translations, and stuff like that, and it turns out that A LOT of things were added in at King James' time, because his squires didn't understand enough. Oddly enough though, things still don't find any contradictories. But, as I said, just have them read more about the Bible, and stop listening to the pastor for a second. Now notice, one of my best friends is a pastor, but you gotta understand- if you guys stop going to church, that means his paycheck is smaller, so he's naturally gonna want you to stay. Well, if you pay your tithe anyway. Reading the Bible intensely will show that SOOO many things that Christians misconcept about the Bible.
-edit- And by the way, for proof, 2 things were changed in King James' translation: They added MANY lines to many books of the bible(including the ending to Revalations saying anyone adding to this will be sent to hell, because that isn't true), AND they changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So really, the sabbath is saturday. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for that post.
I have to admit that during that day I was a bit over reactant of what my parents said to me. They just want to bring out the best in me. Well, my mom wasn't a Christian her whole life, during her young twenties if I recall correctly, she wasn't a believer, but was saved sometime later on. Her life was ruled by high respects for elders and the orderly behavior of things, which in turn probably infused with her beliefs ( therefore her persistence in me going to church everytime unless I am sick). My father, same situation, he use to be a smoker and drinker, but quit after he was saved.
If I ever have children, I wouldn't bring them up the way I was brought up. I would tell them about God and whatnot, bring them to church, but most importantly I would give them free choice over their lives. If they ever grew up to be teenagers like me and wanted to believe in a different God, then fine with me.
Anyways
I guess everyone has their opinion and beliefs on certain matters, we are all unique. It is just that my opinion often conflicts with that of some of my family members.
<!--QuoteBegin--Josiah+Sep 15 2003, 02:46 PM --></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josiah @ Sep 15 2003, 02:46 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Organised religion and corruption are very correlated with one another. But to be honest, isn't that what the teachings of Jesus are about in the first place, about hope?
<!--QuoteBegin--kida+Sep 15 2003, 10:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (kida @ Sep 15 2003, 10:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin--Josiah+Sep 15 2003, 02:46 PM --></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josiah @ Sep 15 2003, 02:46 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Organised religion and corruption are very correlated with one another. But to be honest, isn't that what the teachings of Jesus are about in the first place, about hope? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No argument here.
Although I am sure some will say that the teachings of Jesus were about Salvation and how to achieve it, more than giving people hope.
60something% of all religeon holding people ON THE PLANET are born into a family with parents that will forcefeed them religeous beliefs with a jet-powered spoon untill they submit and become a mindless follower. a much much smaller precent convert to a chosen religeon and an even smaller precent reject all religeon upon realizing they have the choice to do so.
12% of people belonging to religeons claim they actually converted to or otherwise became a part of that religeon for a reason, the vast majority save the last few precent all agree that they were "forced" into the religeon from birth. (this applies to the western religeons far more than the eastern ones though the numbers only vary by 10-20%)
i could go into detail about ages and whatnot but i dont think anyone cares. and for the record, josiah hit the nail, the screw and everything else in the toolshed on the head.. even the lawnmower.
im one of the godless, technofiles up on his numbers.
We had a garage sale last weekend. This woman came up and I was thinking 'Wow, she looks like a teacher'. Well someone that was helping us out sais 'Are you a teacher?'
Her response was 'No, I'm a Sunday School Teacher!' Then she launched into this hour long, despicably boring tale I paid no attention to whatsoever. We're hardcore athiests. We didn't mention this to her at all.
Today she came back. No yard sale. She has a bible in her hand, and she said 'You guys had the yard sale, right?'
I'm like... 'yeah...'?
'Well, I just thought that you'd like to know how this little book can bring enlightenment and hapiness in your life! Do you read the bible? Well anyway, you should. I mean, you can serve God and go to he-' (I slammed the door in her face).
Christians are self-serving hypocrites, in my opinion. What missionaries and Jehovas do is just downright insulting. Sure you're going to save some kids life so that he can die another day, but you're going to force your religion off on him as well? You think I need saving? I should've said to that woman 'What can your god give me that Allah can't? He promised me 72 virgins if I bomb your church', and I would've if I'd thought of it at the time.
I swear to god (Irony, I know...), I'm probably going to punch the next bible-thumper who tells me that *I* need enlightenment in my life and that *THEIR* god is the 'right and true' one. And I'll probably hit them with their own bible as well.
- Signed, Irritated. (Lol Nem will have fun with this post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
QuaunautThe longest seven days in history...Join Date: 2003-03-21Member: 14759Members, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
Well, I personally HATE those kinds of people, that forcefeed it to you like that.
No one take offense by this, but many of those kinds of people are called "Jahova's Witnesses", and well, I wish they'd stop coming to the door. I tell them "I'm a christian", and then they go on for a long time about how great it is and if I have any non-christian family members.
Like they could do a better job than me about helping my family out. Mnyeh.
We get Jehovah's witnesses at our house almost every week, but now its like once every month. They are the most persistent buggers I've seen. We tell them we Believe in God, but they have to tell us that our beliefs are wrong, I thinks.
God is personal. We should also try to be. So called "cold evangelism" does not work, and puts people off to the idea of a personal God because people conduct themselves in such impersonal manners.
I won't stop attempting to share Christ with my friends, for two very important reasons.
1) Jesus asked us to: Matthew 28:19: All power on heaven and earth has been granted to me, therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, son, and the holy spirit.
2) I would not be a Christian now, I would not have the true, awesome, deep, and nourishing friendships I have now had I not been asked out to bible study in 7th grade, had someone not shared Christ with me.
Of course, I don't go to random places throwing out the gospel either. Something C.S. Lewis said in 'Mere Christianity' (Very good book, BTW), is that there is no such thing as just a human, we're all inhabited by an immortal soul of some sort.
Since I've started seeing that soul in people, that little piece of them that lives on forever, I've seen more and more the importance of inventing time into people, of using whatever I have to build relationships with them.
What else am I going to spend it on? Money?
Going along with this though, it seems that almost all of my friends that aren't Christians have some sort of hole in their life, something they are missing, wether be it a place to belong, or just an elusive, undefinable thing that myself and my Christian friends have. It's God.
I'm not trying to brainwash you, I'm not trying to control you, I'm not trying to alter your behavior, and I'm not trying to put you in a position where others can do any of those things. I share Christ because that is, truely, the best thing in my life, and I want you to have it too. So did the sunday school lady, but her methods for sharing Him were blunt, at best.
Being an atheist is very comfortable. I don't know why, but it just is. If it weren't for God, I would go back to being one. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Bosnian+Sep 16 2003, 06:36 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bosnian @ Sep 16 2003, 06:36 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Being an atheist is very comfortable. I don't know why, but it just is. If it weren't for God, I would go back to being one. <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> I disagree. Experiencing your own contingency and the weakness of your willpower is absolutely frightening. It is fine when you have people to support you - close friends and relatives , loving parents , girlfriend/wife ect... But when you're left alone , and realize how weak your contribution to history can be - how unsignificant your life would have been if you were to die tomorrow... and death is waiting for you around the corner , no escape , your mind is doomed to annihilation. When you assume there's nothing outside reality , life becomes pretty scary.
God gives comfort to everyone , even at the price of sado-masochist relationship sometimes. But it's still here watching over you , lifting most of the weight of responsability off your shoulders. There are good things to do , that lead you to the path of heaven , and bad things to do , that will bring you to hell if you don't feel the need to martyrize your own flesh.
My theory is that believers feel comfortable with their duality : they have a conscience , free will , coming from God ; and their unconscious , slave to their body , open to the temptations of Satan. Order fighting disorder , the mind struggling to control the body. They think their mind is supposed to be superior since they are humans , should their bodily desires overwhelm their mind they would go back to the animal stage. Neurons and concepts compete in a coherent , cold-war like scheme. Believers fight their own <i>other</i> self.
Atheists on the other hand , feel like one. When you consider that order and disorder are irrelevant to life , that nothing started "good" or "bad" , your existence has a whole new meaning. The concepts of "Good" and "Bad" stop being absolutes , in that you are the only judge , the only one responsible of your actions. Which one ? The Good one or the Bad one ? Both. Your personality and ideas are equally good and bad. You know you can only do what you <i>think</i> is good at best , and never be sure it actually is so. No ideology is reliable enough to keep your conscience secure , you have to question everything , which makes you feel lost when you're left with no worthy reference. The ideas you're hosting to feel less lonely fight each other endlessly , you see contradictions everywhere , your mind is total chaos. Neurons and concept compete in some sort of absurd civil war , and you feel like fighting your own self. Atheists earn moral comfort at the expense of their mind's integrity.
In fact , atheists <i>believe</i> there is no God. There is no way you can rationally prove that God doesn't exist. This means atheists can't consider themselves any better than believers , while the latter are more "enlightened" and feel good knowing that.
Atheists like me never feel secure. You can only hope your existence isn't pointless , that you have some sort of destiny , but there's nothing to prove it. You are the sum of your actions , nothing more. You aren't self-made either , as you are strongly influenced by your environment.
<!--QuoteBegin--Marine01+Sep 15 2003, 03:55 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Marine01 @ Sep 15 2003, 03:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Well Confuzor I'm with Legion here. Christianity is a personal relationship between you and Jesus. It has absolutely nothing to do with your family. If what they say make you not want to be a Christian, then maybe your faith is based more on them then on Christ.
Admittedly, I myself had a huge problem with people in my Church. The young folk would come in, sing, do all the charasmatics, and then later at Hungry Jacks they be swearing, feeling eachother up, telling dirty stories and generally being losers. The hypocracy eventually lead to me stopping attendance, and certainly if people asked me if I was a Christian I denied it.
But then I read a good book by C.S Lewis called the Screwtape letters. And it was kind of a "demons handbook", written as one demon giving another demon tips on how to keep his "subject" away from faith. And in it, the older demon tells the younger one that perhaps his greatest weapon is other Christians.
Indirect quote. "Keep him focus'd upon his fellow Christians. Try and divert his attention from the good that they do, try and hold it upon their failings. Try to disgust him with their hypocracy, make him feel ashamed to be associated with them."
EDIT Absentic ffs GIVE IT A REST. Just leave the forums for a week man, it will save someone having to come along and ban you. You WILL not insult the moderators, or you will be removed. I think they do an excellent jobs and it drives me nuts to see some 13 year old with an attitude problem walk into our forums and give them cheek. I'm not trying to do the moderators job, just letting of steam at your adolescent stupidity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Have you ever read Mere Christianty by C.S Lewis? That was also a good book I think.
<!--QuoteBegin--Teflon+Sep 15 2003, 08:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Teflon @ Sep 15 2003, 08:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Wow, what a great time for me to read this post.
We had a garage sale last weekend. This woman came up and I was thinking 'Wow, she looks like a teacher'. Well someone that was helping us out sais 'Are you a teacher?'
Her response was 'No, I'm a Sunday School Teacher!' Then she launched into this hour long, despicably boring tale I paid no attention to whatsoever. We're hardcore athiests. We didn't mention this to her at all.
Today she came back. No yard sale. She has a bible in her hand, and she said 'You guys had the yard sale, right?'
I'm like... 'yeah...'?
'Well, I just thought that you'd like to know how this little book can bring enlightenment and hapiness in your life! Do you read the bible? Well anyway, you should. I mean, you can serve God and go to he-' (I slammed the door in her face).
Christians are self-serving hypocrites, in my opinion. What missionaries and Jehovas do is just downright insulting. Sure you're going to save some kids life so that he can die another day, but you're going to force your religion off on him as well? You think I need saving? I should've said to that woman 'What can your god give me that Allah can't? He promised me 72 virgins if I bomb your church', and I would've if I'd thought of it at the time.
I swear to god (Irony, I know...), I'm probably going to punch the next bible-thumper who tells me that *I* need enlightenment in my life and that *THEIR* god is the 'right and true' one. And I'll probably hit them with their own bible as well.
- Signed, Irritated. (Lol Nem will have fun with this post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Bible Thumpers may be annoying, but you sir, have made me very angry with your post. Please, delete some of that, its quite insulting, as well as untrue.
<!--QuoteBegin--absentic+Sep 14 2003, 04:37 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (absentic @ Sep 14 2003, 04:37 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Religions are just a big fairy tale; face it people; nobody snapped their fingers to create everything you see around you. It's a childish dream created thousands of years ago to keep people from killing themselves in the hope of getting to a better place when they die. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Yup, and matter just exploded out of nowhere to.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stakhanov+Sep 14 2003, 04:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stakhanov @ Sep 14 2003, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> omg only h4rdc0r3 chr1st14ns go to h34v3n , noob atheists go to h3llzorz !
Most "softcore" christians out here will agree with us that religion is mostly a matter of personal faith , that is , if you don't feel the need to go to the church every sunday then you shouldn't , no one can force you to be faithfull , not even your family. Atheism would be much less widespread if the average christian was more tolerant and open minded... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Agreed all the way man.
Comments
Admittedly, I myself had a huge problem with people in my Church. The young folk would come in, sing, do all the charasmatics, and then later at Hungry Jacks they be swearing, feeling eachother up, telling dirty stories and generally being losers. The hypocracy eventually lead to me stopping attendance, and certainly if people asked me if I was a Christian I denied it.
But then I read a good book by C.S Lewis called the Screwtape letters. And it was kind of a "demons handbook", written as one demon giving another demon tips on how to keep his "subject" away from faith. And in it, the older demon tells the younger one that perhaps his greatest weapon is other Christians.
Indirect quote. "Keep him focus'd upon his fellow Christians. Try and divert his attention from the good that they do, try and hold it upon their failings. Try to disgust him with their hypocracy, make him feel ashamed to be associated with them."
EDIT Absentic ffs GIVE IT A REST. Just leave the forums for a week man, it will save someone having to come along and ban you. You WILL not insult the moderators, or you will be removed. I think they do an excellent jobs and it drives me nuts to see some 13 year old with an attitude problem walk into our forums and give them cheek. I'm not trying to do the moderators job, just letting of steam at your adolescent stupidity.
Questions?
Marik is a highly respected member of the NS community, and with your attitude, lack of respect for other members of the board and general rudeness, you're not. And you're not likely to last long enough to get respect. Given that you cant even see what you have done wrong, I dont think you have a hope.
Perhaps a reread of the forum rules might help you in your understanding of what you did wrong. Now I'm probably gonna get hammered for doing the moderators job...
Hes just a moderator, not a god.
[/offtopic]
Hes just a moderator, not a god. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I beg to differ, they are very much gods, and my little shrine to Nem should be proof enough, plus you should see coil turn water into wine.....or is that he drinks wine like it was water, well no matter.
on topic. Organized relegion is a farce, it was used as a control measure in Europe to limit education and keep the masses subdued. Having faith has nothing to do with belonging to an orginization, pure faith is limitless and unconfined by any rules or doctrine, you can achieve commune with deities independently pure and simple.
I think he was disappointed by the fact that you were treating their faith so flippantly.
I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.
Too many times have I seen it be said that organised religion is a control measure, that is quite frankly absurd. Whilst religion and faith can be used to control people's minds and wills that hardly ever happens now in Western Society, many people gain comfort in the fact that they worship in their faith together with others, they enjoy worship and collectively bettering themselves in their faith.
Organised religion has been used to dominate, but fortunately this is no longer the case, people are now more widely read, and have access to a greater array of theological and philosophical theories so that they can challenge their faith, and adapt it to how the answer the question of "life, the universe, and everything." Religion was indeed forces upon people by the state, but this was to keep the people at the top where they were, and the people at the bottom where they were, now, thanks to the type of world we live in, it no longer serves that purpose and it helps most people who subscribe to that faith.
In these forums I have raised questions about aspects of the Christian Faith, not to try and mock it and "prove" to everyone that it is rubbish and outdated and that I am right. I try and question the Christian Faith in order to find my own, and to see how others deal with such questions and keep their faith, because, quite frankly, I am envious of a person that has studied philosophy and theology and can keep their faith.
Either way, back to the main point.
You were fully entitled to not go to Church, if it truly gets to you that you feel you are going to be judged then speak to your minister, if it doesn't then don't worry mate - people have done a lot worse things than go to Church.
Only the first paragraph
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
was directed at you.
The rest was directed at the masses who say that Organised Religion now is a bad thing.
<!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
I studies Philosophy at AS level, and it only strengthened my faith. Seeing all these philosopheres searching for "the truth" and never finding it, then realising that I had found the answers to all the questions anybody could ever think of... well...
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I studies Philosophy at AS level, and it only strengthened my faith. Seeing all these philosopheres searching for "the truth" and never finding it, then realising that I had found the answers to all the questions anybody could ever think of... well...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I am studying Philosophy at A2 right now and the only arguments that I can find that are strong are those who are for a creator but show that you can't prove the attributes that Christians give their God.
Either way John Stuart Mill r0xx0r5 j00r b0x3r5 <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
What happenned:
Today is sunday, the sabbath day, the day which we Christians are suppose to keep holy. Anyway, our church doesn't own a building, instead we rent from another church. The church that owned the building was doing something special today and so we had to go to another church to hold service, 30 minutes away...Seeing how our particular church takes forever to finish services and fellowship, I told my mom and dad that I didn't want to go because: 1) the drive was 30 minutes and back. 2) I had some physics, english, and math to catch up. 3) I didn't want to go just to have a quick 30 minute lesson with my sunday school teacher, along with the other 3 guys. 4) I didn't want to spend another 2 hours just lingering around the church.
My mom was like, "NO!!!NO!!You have to go, or else God will be very unhappy..blablabla...It is a sin..." and I was like, "so when is it a sin not to go to church..blablabla<insert communication problem> (she has bad english). My mom totally freaked outt when I didn't want to go to church, she doesn't understand that as a human, I have the right to go or not. My dad was so cool with it, he was like, "Ok, thats fine, just do a little personal prayer and whatnot with God, and do your homework." My mom can be soooo stubborn and ignorant, no wonder her faith is soooo strong. She kept telling me I had to go...ARRRGHH...<brain explodes>....
So I was on the computer playing cs while they were leaving and my sister was mocking me, because I wasn't doing my homework. The time was 2:00 P.M and service started at 3:00 P.M. It had been so long since I had played cs and already, they said something about it. So my mom said her last ditch attempts to persuade me and I told her and them, "you guys are hardcore christians..." My dad was kinda dissapointed with that remark so he said to me, "Since you have a pretty big conscience, I hope you live with the fact that God will judge you for that comment," like WTH! My sister was like, "your going to hell." So they all left and I said to myself, "what did I do wrong?"
If I hadn't grown up in a Christian family, I would probably be an atheist. As of right now, I am doubting my very own religious beliefs. I know there is a God, but Christians, like my family showed me today, deter non beleivers from the Allmighty. If I remember, Jesus said, "Judge and be Judged." There have been many a time, where I didn't believe in God for a while, but I kept on coming back to him for some reason.
Moral of the story: Some people can really force down your throat their religious principles, like some of my family did today, especially my mom.
I really don't know what will happen when I move out of the house, I might not even attend church anymore, seriously.
EDIT: Some really stupid errors <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Note: I haven't read any posts after the first.
Well, Kida, I think this is a prime example of what people don't understand about the Christian religion- it has almost ZIP to do with the church. Everything Christ teaches is one's PERSONAL SELF RELATIONSHIP with God. Not Church then God, and so on.
In the process, staying home from church once in a while is just fine, as long as you have your daily dose of God.
Your mother seems to have been raised in a very strict Church household in which because her parents/guardians couldn't control her, told her that she'd go to hell unless she was really sick or something, which is VERY untrue.
Really, the only reason as a Christian to go to church is to find other, more experienced, Christians, to learn from, and also to help one another(also called "Fellowship"). Other than that, it really is just a social gathering.
Another thing your mom probably doesn't realize, is that there is no building called "The Church". There is no "Church". A church is a place where ANY people go to focus on God. Whether its your family at home, or a baptism at your worship site, their both Churches, for your exalting God.
Really, this is just an example of someone not reading enough and understanding the Bible. I have been through many classes about the Bible, where they get into translations, and stuff like that, and it turns out that A LOT of things were added in at King James' time, because his squires didn't understand enough. Oddly enough though, things still don't find any contradictories. But, as I said, just have them read more about the Bible, and stop listening to the pastor for a second. Now notice, one of my best friends is a pastor, but you gotta understand- if you guys stop going to church, that means his paycheck is smaller, so he's naturally gonna want you to stay. Well, if you pay your tithe anyway. Reading the Bible intensely will show that SOOO many things that Christians misconcept about the Bible.
-edit- And by the way, for proof, 2 things were changed in King James' translation: They added MANY lines to many books of the bible(including the ending to Revalations saying anyone adding to this will be sent to hell, because that isn't true), AND they changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So really, the sabbath is saturday.
Well, Kida, I think this is a prime example of what people don't understand about the Christian religion- it has almost ZIP to do with the church. Everything Christ teaches is one's PERSONAL SELF RELATIONSHIP with God. Not Church then God, and so on.
In the process, staying home from church once in a while is just fine, as long as you have your daily dose of God.
Your mother seems to have been raised in a very strict Church household in which because her parents/guardians couldn't control her, told her that she'd go to hell unless she was really sick or something, which is VERY untrue.
Really, the only reason as a Christian to go to church is to find other, more experienced, Christians, to learn from, and also to help one another(also called "Fellowship"). Other than that, it really is just a social gathering.
Another thing your mom probably doesn't realize, is that there is no building called "The Church". There is no "Church". A church is a place where ANY people go to focus on God. Whether its your family at home, or a baptism at your worship site, their both Churches, for your exalting God.
Really, this is just an example of someone not reading enough and understanding the Bible. I have been through many classes about the Bible, where they get into translations, and stuff like that, and it turns out that A LOT of things were added in at King James' time, because his squires didn't understand enough. Oddly enough though, things still don't find any contradictories. But, as I said, just have them read more about the Bible, and stop listening to the pastor for a second. Now notice, one of my best friends is a pastor, but you gotta understand- if you guys stop going to church, that means his paycheck is smaller, so he's naturally gonna want you to stay. Well, if you pay your tithe anyway. Reading the Bible intensely will show that SOOO many things that Christians misconcept about the Bible.
-edit- And by the way, for proof, 2 things were changed in King James' translation: They added MANY lines to many books of the bible(including the ending to Revalations saying anyone adding to this will be sent to hell, because that isn't true), AND they changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. So really, the sabbath is saturday. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thank you for that post.
I have to admit that during that day I was a bit over reactant of what my parents said to me. They just want to bring out the best in me. Well, my mom wasn't a Christian her whole life, during her young twenties if I recall correctly, she wasn't a believer, but was saved sometime later on. Her life was ruled by high respects for elders and the orderly behavior of things, which in turn probably infused with her beliefs ( therefore her persistence in me going to church everytime unless I am sick). My father, same situation, he use to be a smoker and drinker, but quit after he was saved.
If I ever have children, I wouldn't bring them up the way I was brought up. I would tell them about God and whatnot, bring them to church, but most importantly I would give them free choice over their lives. If they ever grew up to be teenagers like me and wanted to believe in a different God, then fine with me.
Anyways
I guess everyone has their opinion and beliefs on certain matters, we are all unique. It is just that my opinion often conflicts with that of some of my family members.
<!--QuoteBegin--Josiah+Sep 15 2003, 02:46 PM --></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Josiah @ Sep 15 2003, 02:46 PM )</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I beg to differ. Organised religion was used as a control measure in Europe, but it also gave people hope that there was something better beyond their, quite frankly, horrible existence.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Organised religion and corruption are very correlated with one another. But to be honest, isn't that what the teachings of Jesus are about in the first place, about hope?
Organised religion and corruption are very correlated with one another. But to be honest, isn't that what the teachings of Jesus are about in the first place, about hope? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No argument here.
Although I am sure some will say that the teachings of Jesus were about Salvation and how to achieve it, more than giving people hope.
Not I, but others.
this life is all we've got. so you live it, you have fun, you do what you like.
now, if you can maintain mosta your virtues and beliefs while doing this, then you should be okay into heaven, you know?
now, we worship the GOD we're talkin about. not the men under him.
man wrote the bible: g@ys shouldn't have to relinquish their h0mosexuality as a SIN in order to be "forgiven".
if things like that are true, then we weren't exactly worshipping the same god we thought we were, eh?
12% of people belonging to religeons claim they actually converted to or otherwise became a part of that religeon for a reason, the vast majority save the last few precent all agree that they were "forced" into the religeon from birth. (this applies to the western religeons far more than the eastern ones though the numbers only vary by 10-20%)
i could go into detail about ages and whatnot but i dont think anyone cares. and for the record, josiah hit the nail, the screw and everything else in the toolshed on the head.. even the lawnmower.
im one of the godless, technofiles up on his numbers.
We had a garage sale last weekend. This woman came up and I was thinking 'Wow, she looks like a teacher'. Well someone that was helping us out sais 'Are you a teacher?'
Her response was 'No, I'm a Sunday School Teacher!' Then she launched into this hour long, despicably boring tale I paid no attention to whatsoever. We're hardcore athiests. We didn't mention this to her at all.
Today she came back. No yard sale. She has a bible in her hand, and she said 'You guys had the yard sale, right?'
I'm like... 'yeah...'?
'Well, I just thought that you'd like to know how this little book can bring enlightenment and hapiness in your life! Do you read the bible? Well anyway, you should. I mean, you can serve God and go to he-' (I slammed the door in her face).
Christians are self-serving hypocrites, in my opinion. What missionaries and Jehovas do is just downright insulting. Sure you're going to save some kids life so that he can die another day, but you're going to force your religion off on him as well? You think I need saving? I should've said to that woman 'What can your god give me that Allah can't? He promised me 72 virgins if I bomb your church', and I would've if I'd thought of it at the time.
I swear to god (Irony, I know...), I'm probably going to punch the next bible-thumper who tells me that *I* need enlightenment in my life and that *THEIR* god is the 'right and true' one. And I'll probably hit them with their own bible as well.
- Signed, Irritated. (Lol Nem will have fun with this post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->)
No one take offense by this, but many of those kinds of people are called "Jahova's Witnesses", and well, I wish they'd stop coming to the door. I tell them "I'm a christian", and then they go on for a long time about how great it is and if I have any non-christian family members.
Like they could do a better job than me about helping my family out. Mnyeh.
We get Jehovah's witnesses at our house almost every week, but now its like once every month. They are the most persistent buggers I've seen. We tell them we Believe in God, but they have to tell us that our beliefs are wrong, I thinks.
I won't stop attempting to share Christ with my friends, for two very important reasons.
1) Jesus asked us to: Matthew 28:19: All power on heaven and earth has been granted to me, therefore, go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the father, son, and the holy spirit.
2) I would not be a Christian now, I would not have the true, awesome, deep, and nourishing friendships I have now had I not been asked out to bible study in 7th grade, had someone not shared Christ with me.
Of course, I don't go to random places throwing out the gospel either. Something C.S. Lewis said in 'Mere Christianity' (Very good book, BTW), is that there is no such thing as just a human, we're all inhabited by an immortal soul of some sort.
Since I've started seeing that soul in people, that little piece of them that lives on forever, I've seen more and more the importance of inventing time into people, of using whatever I have to build relationships with them.
What else am I going to spend it on? Money?
Going along with this though, it seems that almost all of my friends that aren't Christians have some sort of hole in their life, something they are missing, wether be it a place to belong, or just an elusive, undefinable thing that myself and my Christian friends have. It's God.
I'm not trying to brainwash you, I'm not trying to control you, I'm not trying to alter your behavior, and I'm not trying to put you in a position where others can do any of those things. I share Christ because that is, truely, the best thing in my life, and I want you to have it too. So did the sunday school lady, but her methods for sharing Him were blunt, at best.
I disagree. Experiencing your own contingency and the weakness of your willpower is absolutely frightening. It is fine when you have people to support you - close friends and relatives , loving parents , girlfriend/wife ect...
But when you're left alone , and realize how weak your contribution to history can be - how unsignificant your life would have been if you were to die tomorrow... and death is waiting for you around the corner , no escape , your mind is doomed to annihilation. When you assume there's nothing outside reality , life becomes pretty scary.
God gives comfort to everyone , even at the price of sado-masochist relationship sometimes. But it's still here watching over you , lifting most of the weight of responsability off your shoulders. There are good things to do , that lead you to the path of heaven , and bad things to do , that will bring you to hell if you don't feel the need to martyrize your own flesh.
My theory is that believers feel comfortable with their duality : they have a conscience , free will , coming from God ; and their unconscious , slave to their body , open to the temptations of Satan. Order fighting disorder , the mind struggling to control the body. They think their mind is supposed to be superior since they are humans , should their bodily desires overwhelm their mind they would go back to the animal stage. Neurons and concepts compete in a coherent , cold-war like scheme. Believers fight their own <i>other</i> self.
Atheists on the other hand , feel like one. When you consider that order and disorder are irrelevant to life , that nothing started "good" or "bad" , your existence has a whole new meaning. The concepts of "Good" and "Bad" stop being absolutes , in that you are the only judge , the only one responsible of your actions. Which one ? The Good one or the Bad one ? Both. Your personality and ideas are equally good and bad.
You know you can only do what you <i>think</i> is good at best , and never be sure it actually is so. No ideology is reliable enough to keep your conscience secure , you have to question everything , which makes you feel lost when you're left with no worthy reference. The ideas you're hosting to feel less lonely fight each other endlessly , you see contradictions everywhere , your mind is total chaos. Neurons and concept compete in some sort of absurd civil war , and you feel like fighting your own self. Atheists earn moral comfort at the expense of their mind's integrity.
In fact , atheists <i>believe</i> there is no God. There is no way you can rationally prove that God doesn't exist. This means atheists can't consider themselves any better than believers , while the latter are more "enlightened" and feel good knowing that.
Atheists like me never feel secure. You can only hope your existence isn't pointless , that you have some sort of destiny , but there's nothing to prove it. You are the sum of your actions , nothing more. You aren't self-made either , as you are strongly influenced by your environment.
Freedom has to be the scariest thing ever.
Admittedly, I myself had a huge problem with people in my Church. The young folk would come in, sing, do all the charasmatics, and then later at Hungry Jacks they be swearing, feeling eachother up, telling dirty stories and generally being losers. The hypocracy eventually lead to me stopping attendance, and certainly if people asked me if I was a Christian I denied it.
But then I read a good book by C.S Lewis called the Screwtape letters. And it was kind of a "demons handbook", written as one demon giving another demon tips on how to keep his "subject" away from faith. And in it, the older demon tells the younger one that perhaps his greatest weapon is other Christians.
Indirect quote. "Keep him focus'd upon his fellow Christians. Try and divert his attention from the good that they do, try and hold it upon their failings. Try to disgust him with their hypocracy, make him feel ashamed to be associated with them."
EDIT Absentic ffs GIVE IT A REST. Just leave the forums for a week man, it will save someone having to come along and ban you. You WILL not insult the moderators, or you will be removed. I think they do an excellent jobs and it drives me nuts to see some 13 year old with an attitude problem walk into our forums and give them cheek. I'm not trying to do the moderators job, just letting of steam at your adolescent stupidity. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Have you ever read Mere Christianty by C.S Lewis? That was also a good book I think.
We had a garage sale last weekend. This woman came up and I was thinking 'Wow, she looks like a teacher'. Well someone that was helping us out sais 'Are you a teacher?'
Her response was 'No, I'm a Sunday School Teacher!' Then she launched into this hour long, despicably boring tale I paid no attention to whatsoever. We're hardcore athiests. We didn't mention this to her at all.
Today she came back. No yard sale. She has a bible in her hand, and she said 'You guys had the yard sale, right?'
I'm like... 'yeah...'?
'Well, I just thought that you'd like to know how this little book can bring enlightenment and hapiness in your life! Do you read the bible? Well anyway, you should. I mean, you can serve God and go to he-' (I slammed the door in her face).
Christians are self-serving hypocrites, in my opinion. What missionaries and Jehovas do is just downright insulting. Sure you're going to save some kids life so that he can die another day, but you're going to force your religion off on him as well? You think I need saving? I should've said to that woman 'What can your god give me that Allah can't? He promised me 72 virgins if I bomb your church', and I would've if I'd thought of it at the time.
I swear to god (Irony, I know...), I'm probably going to punch the next bible-thumper who tells me that *I* need enlightenment in my life and that *THEIR* god is the 'right and true' one. And I'll probably hit them with their own bible as well.
- Signed, Irritated. (Lol Nem will have fun with this post <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Bible Thumpers may be annoying, but you sir, have made me very angry with your post. Please, delete some of that, its quite insulting, as well as untrue.
Yup, and matter just exploded out of nowhere to.
Just as feasable to me to believe in God.
Most "softcore" christians out here will agree with us that religion is mostly a matter of personal faith , that is , if you don't feel the need to go to the church every sunday then you shouldn't , no one can force you to be faithfull , not even your family. Atheism would be much less widespread if the average christian was more tolerant and open minded... <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed all the way man.