What Do You Think About Immigration?
CaLFiN
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6909Members
Join Date: 2002-11-04 Member: 6909Members
in Discussions
I couldn't find anything about this asked before, so I thought I would make a discussion.
Here in the UK we get a lot of immigrants coming to our country from all over the world. We have processes of reviewing cases and then if we feel they cannot live in this country they get sent back.
On the TV, not that long ago, there was a program where we had to vote on immigration cases, and say if they should be sent back or given residance (their cases had already been decided, we never actually decided if they would be sent back or not.) It was interesting to see that in almost every case 75% of people voted they should be sent back, regardless of how sad their story was.
Immigration can cause all sorts of problems. For example, they take up waiting time on our health service, and our own country residents have to wait.
After reading a book called Fast Food Nation, I learned that many immigrants are employed in America to work in jobs that nobody would ever want to do, getting paid hardly anything. Due to this some states have been totally changed and most of the population is immigrants.
Some countries like Australia have very strict immigration laws. I am not completely sure how Australia do things, but it would be interesting to know.
Immigration is not a new thing, it has been going on for a very long time. I know America has a lot of history about immigration but not too much.
So, do you think immigration is good or bad?
Do our laws need to be toughened up?
Here in the UK we get a lot of immigrants coming to our country from all over the world. We have processes of reviewing cases and then if we feel they cannot live in this country they get sent back.
On the TV, not that long ago, there was a program where we had to vote on immigration cases, and say if they should be sent back or given residance (their cases had already been decided, we never actually decided if they would be sent back or not.) It was interesting to see that in almost every case 75% of people voted they should be sent back, regardless of how sad their story was.
Immigration can cause all sorts of problems. For example, they take up waiting time on our health service, and our own country residents have to wait.
After reading a book called Fast Food Nation, I learned that many immigrants are employed in America to work in jobs that nobody would ever want to do, getting paid hardly anything. Due to this some states have been totally changed and most of the population is immigrants.
Some countries like Australia have very strict immigration laws. I am not completely sure how Australia do things, but it would be interesting to know.
Immigration is not a new thing, it has been going on for a very long time. I know America has a lot of history about immigration but not too much.
So, do you think immigration is good or bad?
Do our laws need to be toughened up?
Comments
As for the fast food nation. I think what he was refering to was not immigrants so much as illegal immigrants who come to america(often from mexico, but also from many other countries.)
Those poor people come here illegally because its faster and exspect a better life. But what they get is a life of having to live in fear of being deport.
They are forced to work really low profile jobs, such as ones that no-one else wants.
Its their own choice, but its often an uneducated choice.
Many dont realize that while america is for the most part free, its still a capitalist country. If you dont have money and dont want to take the correct legal route to get welfare, you wont last long.
There are some southern border states with cities that spanish is the offical language(not like that is really a problem anyway). But it shows the concentration of immigrants in that area.
There's more to immigration than accepting refugees too, of course. Many people come here from other countries to study in better universities than they'd have back home, and end up deciding to stay after they graduate - that's boosting the skills of the workforce a fair amount straight off.
The buzzword recently has been <i>integration</i>, and that's what people need to accept. We're not going to succeed in making immigrants truly "British" (a stuffily antiquated concept) - it is the blending of our cultures that makes this and many other nations the rich and vibrant places they are.
Oh, and <i>I'm</i> going to be an immigrant soon too (to the US), so for that alone I'm all in favour of it <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
If this was the case, wouldn't people be trying to LEAVE the U.S. instead of trying to find any possible way to get inside the borders?
At the same time, we've got a steadily growing field of manual labour that is only getting filled thanks to less qualified immigrants doing jobs barely a native would be willing to do.
Add to this that pretty much all western countries have to struggle with aging demographics and sinking birth rates and that our current economic system is depending on a steady influx of 'new' people, and you won't even have to start holding multi-cultural ideals up to show that immigration isn't 'good', nor 'bad', but simply a vital necessity.
If this was the case, wouldn't people be trying to LEAVE the U.S. instead of trying to find any possible way to get inside the borders? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Would you rather eat poisoned fruit or rotton fruit
It's just the fact that these damn border jumpers expect all sorts of privileges (the Governor of my state wants illegal immigrants to get in-state tuition to colleges!!11!1 1!) and they suck all of our damn welfare money.
I don't work for my 6 figures to have half of it blown away (oh wait... that would be my father who works)...
Anyway, the other thing is the fact that a lot of the immigrants these days don't know any english at all. America was founded in ENGLISH and it should STAY that way. All these companies say they hire such diverse people. Wouldn't that be racist towards whites? All they're after is cash, not helping people.
I don't want to have to take 4 years of Spanish because some idiot in this country doesn't speak english. They should learn english if they want to live here. Hell, if I go to Korea, I'm not just going to go move there without learning Korean first. God that pisses me off.
No, I am NOT racist (I hope)
In the case of regular immigrants, I feel they should only be accepted if they have something to contribute to the country.
In regards to Iraq, stop bashing Bush. He made the right decision. I don't want to end up with billions more in a deficit because we didn't go to war to stop them from bombing us. I think if we kill the innocent on accident, we ARE freeing them, in a way. I'd welcome death if I were a damn iraqi suffering in the craphole that is iraq.
Illegal immigrants, in my opinion, should be kicked out of the country, or eaten (seriously). I imagine that a human (properly seasoned) wouldn't taste bad. The chinese did/do it. We could give them to poor people in place of food stamps. Alright, maybe not, but seriously, all the damn border hoppers and not english-speakers should learn english and become citizens, or go to jail/get deported.
Anyways, immigration is a good thing, in almost all cases it's a better life for their family and loved ones, however, there is no reason to not go through the processes of immigration. I believe that it's selfish to enter the US as a illegal immigrant, for the country that's supposedly giving you freedom and opportunity they are unwilling to the responsibility to be a citizen, or even register as an immigrant.
I understand there are "special cases" but regardless, I think that immigrants need to act more responsibilities despite their hardships or et cetera.
Am I taking up your precious resources? *tips over a coca cola can, letting it spill out* Ooops!
Hrm. I won't even bother responding to xdeath's post. I think we're all probably thinking the same thing in response to what he said.
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What... that Jonathan Swift had been reincarnated?
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Am I taking up your precious resources? *tips over a coca cola can, letting it spill out* Ooops!
<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Damn. Bos, that was my last can of malted battery acid! Now I've gotta go walk to the store. And those frickin' SUVs *aim* for pedestrians, it seems.
Seriously though, being a long-time resident of Southern California, I have to hold at least a little against the illegal mexican immigrants. Sure, they take the junk jobs like mowing lawns or picking strawberries that virtually no legal resident in their right mind would accept (excepting due to the Bush II Economy at the moment). The part that annoys me is when I'm driving around and run into a section of town where I can't even read the billboards, as they're in Spanish.
I'm certain it's convenient for those who didn't bother to learn English, but it gets irritating to go for five or six blocks, seeming that space and time has twisted itself so I'm actually somewhere in Baja.
The part that REALLY gets on my nerves is the KIDS of illegal mexican immigrants, though. Who primarily don't *have* to give a damn about being deported. Sure, some are great people. Unfortunately, a lot of them just see their parents as being oppressed, hate on people who don't deserve it, and are little punks in general who seem to try and dish some back.
And as for the entire Bush thing... he should have been impeached about two years back. He's STILL making the US look like.. well... him. The man who nearly choked to death on a pretzel. One of the few people who has managed to fall off a Segway. Unable to speak concisely and clearly, but damn can Daddy afford a good PR team to make the the flight-suited six-month AWOL hypocritical cocaine snortin' down-home guy seem ever-so 'Patriotic' to those who survive on beer and pork rinds.
And not to bring up the Enron thing again (nor the fact that the Bushes *do* share stock in financial holdings with the Bin Laden family), but the whole thing just brings up images of Nixon... after being clubbed in the head a few times. With a lead brick.
If Ryo-Ohki sees this he will give you the other side (hippy side <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->) of the story.
Our government is VERY tough on illegal immigrants. VERY. Large portions of our navy patrol our shores to make sure these people DONT make it here. Why? The most commonly cited reason is that they are "que jumpers". Not really true, as the "boat people" (as we call them) wouldnt get in the que in the first place.
They buy places in leaky old tubs for about 3k and try to get to the Australia. Sometimes they sink along the way, and we have to rescue them, but they are now starting to dry up. And thats because the government takes them and puts them in camps in the outback.
These camps are clean, well maintained, but ultimately like a medium security prision. And then they are processed and sent back to where-ever they came from.
Australia has a very large, very overloaded welfare system. You Americans think you got welfare? You got nothing. The Australian Government recently spent over 7 million keeping one man alive for two days. And they would have kept spending if the man didnt request to stop treatment. If you cant afford health treatment, the Goverment will pay for it for you. None of this "sorry your insurance doesnt cover that so you die". Well very rarely at least.
And it works, the amount of boat people is decreasing, they are getting the message. You cant come to Australia except by legal methods. I personally think its a bit too harsh, but it does work.
Dont get me wrong, we are VERY multicultural here, but you WILL not get in unless you do it legally. Dont expect sympathy from the Australian government.
*Funny Thought*
During the Sydney Olympic games, about 50 competitors from other countries made a break and decided they didnt want to go home, they wanted to stay (who can blame them, gold coast or bosnia?).
Australia is a huge country with massive borders to patrol, all by see, and very light on population density. Believe me, these are desperate people, they aint coming here cause they have a choice. If there was another closer nation as good as us im sure they'd go there.
Yes, I happen to think that wars arn't exactly fun filled carnivals. Yes, I happen to believe governments should provide small things like decent health care and education to their citizens. Yes, I vote for Labor sometimes. If this makes me a "hippy" then throw me in a pool of canibus and call me Earth Child. Now if holding such "radical" and "revolutionary" opinions does not make me a <span style='color:white'>friggin</span> hippy, then kindly do not refer to me as one.
<span style='color:white'>Now chill and realize that he was poking fun at you.</span>
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And they would have kept spending if the man didnt request to stop treatment. If you cant afford health treatment, the Goverment will pay for it for you. None of this "sorry your insurance doesnt cover that so you die". Well very rarely at least.
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Yeah it's it screwed up how the Australian government actually provides it's citizens with decent health care? Because I'd love to go to a hospital where the first thing they check you for is a health insurance card. Did it ever occur to you that providing citizens with health care is something governments should do? And that the country benefits from healthy citizens? Our system works a hell of a lot better than the US system. But I'm guessing you come from a family rich enough for private health care so I guess it wouldn't matter to you if the poor missed out on health care. At least thats the impression your post gave me.
In response to the whole boat people question, was it really nessassary? Australia wasn't drowing in immigrants prior to Fortress Australia being implimented. Every now and again on the news you heard about them, but it wasn't more than a couple of thousand people. Was it really nessassary to spend over 500 million dollars on the Pacific Solution? If these people had kept on coming, it wasn't like we couldn't cope with them. Personally I think the money would have been better spent elsewhere, but apparently most Australians thought otherwise.
Yes I recognise they're illegal immigrants. But surely they have the right to quick and speedy legal proceedings to determine if they are genuine refugees. We have people who've been stuck in those camps now for over 2 years! They're not Club Med either. Numbers of immigrants did not drastically shoot up in 2001, so why is our legal system taking so long with these people? If they have come from Afghanistan and Iraq, which many of them have, I believe they are genuine refugees. Afghanistan is still torn by warfare and the control of savage warlords whilst Iraq is witnessing a gurilla war that is escalating every day. How can we in good conscience turn these people away? If, as the Australian government has, we supported these wars then we must accept the consequences of our actions. One of those consequenses is going to be refugees.
In conclusion, I live in a sharehouse in Brisbane. To the right of our house is a stuck up car salesman who tried to have us evicted when we had one housewarming party in our entire year long residence. Left of us is a block of flats filled with Asian and Middle Eastern immigrants. Nicer, more polite people I have not met. I know who I'd rather be living next to, and it ain't guy on the right who hates us just because we're uni students. Not every immigrant is an AK-47 weilding terrorist as Howard and Ruddock would have us believe. Most of them are just like you and me: decent, hardworking people who are just trying to get by in life.
Its just that I'm generally on the Conservative right, and you on the liberal left, and in the same tone that you could jovially call me a religious zealot, I thought i could jokingly call you a "hippy".
I had no idea it would be taken this way and I promise it wont happen again.
If you reread my post, you will see that at no stage did I support what the Australian Government was doing, only stating that it works, and it does. Its pretty effective at keep immigrants out.
And I also think its great that the Government cares more about the individual than the collective purse.
And hey, Im in share accomodation in Brissy too, and the people over the road are Irani's I think, and I like them as well.
Especially when one of those noobs is me <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
If we let <i>everyone</i> in , there wouldn't be illegal immigration. If the immigrants don't speak the country's language then it's up to the govt to set up compulsory lessons for new-comers. As Nem0 pointed out , immigration is a necessity , I'll add that fast integration is just as badly needed.
Immigrant not only bring in workforce , but their culture as well , claiming it is a bad thing is borderline racism. Cultural diversity is priceless in our modern world.
Once they know the host country's main language there is no reason they should be considered weights to the society , that's quite the opposite. Immigration doesn't cause overwhelming unemployment , no more than natural population growth , or we would have to eject babies since they could become jobless...
Through integration , immigrants become a part of the host population , and directly contribute to the nation's expansion.
More over , it is our duty to make sure they have the same rights , if some natives have the feeling that they're "stealing the jobs" (and who could claim to own jobs ? They're for anyone qualified enough to take them) then it's because they are underpaid in the first place , that's what shouldn't be tolerated. It is known that immigrants belonging to trade unions have considerable trouble to find a job once they've been fired from some place...
I find it immoral to see tourists treated well since they are spending money while immigrants are poorly treated as they come in to earn some. Tourists have little interest in our countries , while immigrants are involving their lives.