And of course, there is the fact that Bile Bombs do no damage to marines. Just step infront of the BB and it won't hurt the buildings, if you can't shoot the gorge.
<!--QuoteBegin--Stung256+Aug 21 2003, 10:51 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Stung256 @ Aug 21 2003, 10:51 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Personally I think they should take bile bomb out and put something in to balance it out, simply because bile bomb is extremely irritating, and it is rather frustrating to have one dedicated gorge take out all your nodes <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> So how should Turret Farms be stopped? ONOS can't do it and stay alive, only umbra covered Gorges can pull it off again and again.
If you are having a problem with a Gorge being able to BB your location from a safe spot, its your Comms inexperince that casued the problem. Learn the maps better and place your outposts with things like vents in mind!
Seriously though... If a gorge can take down one of your outposts singlehanded... you have one of two things going wrong. 1. Your marines are horribly unorganized. 2. The Comm is a complete idiot.
A single gorge is easy to take down with 1 rine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually, there've been several times when I've been spit to death, even when firing point blank at the gorge with an HMG.
If you can´t handle a single gorge with an hmg then i wonder how you do against other lifeforms. Sure if your low on health a gorge spit can kill you but <span style='color:white'>be nice.</span>. C´mon guys that cute little fatty is the weakest anti personal combat unit the aliens have. It takes a lot of spits that can easily be avoided by strafe jumping to kill a marine and even with carpace they go down fast to a hmg.If your team gets defeated by a gorge then there would be no chance you could win the game anyway.
HMG Marine 1 : Oh noooo! HA/HMG Marine 2 : What! Have they onos already? HMG Marine 1 : Much worse!!! A carpace gorge is wabbling at us at 0.3 mph and he surley wants to spits at me HA/HMG Marine 2 : Argggghhh! Retreat run for your life. OMG i want my mommy. *Marines recycle all their bases and run to the dropship* Gorge : Sniff sniff..... but.....I just wanted to be hugged. Sniff.... no one loves me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
In short, no, there won't be a massive nerf of Bilebombs, because a competent marine team can defy any but the most coordinated BB assaults. The word is 'team'. Once again, NS won't be redesigned to fit the loose associations of wannabe rambos some seem to believe have to suffice to fullfill whatever role necessary to win the game.
If you have been teching at least a little to get the things you will need to win the game, a GL shouldn't require going too much out of your way. Have a little extra res? Why not upgrade the armory instead of drop a few more turrets?
If you have nothing but ips, turrets, and a regular armory by the time they have the second hive, things aren't going well for you anyway. They won't even need to bilebomb you, the onos will tear you a new one and you really won't be able to stop them.
Since the adv. armory is required for other useful things, its helpful to upgrade it early regardless of whether or not you need a GL. By the time bilebomb starts being a problem, you shouldn't need long to counter it unless you are already losing pretty badly. Have a marine or two babysit the gorge until the GL is done, then end the problem.
It's not like the GL is destroyed after you kill the gorge. You can use it for other things too. Don't make it seem that you are spending 30 res just to kill a gorge, when you could be killing loads of chambers with it.
Well when any alien is spamming a attack from a vent(bilebomb, spores, ect.) it isn't exactly fair but that isn't the point. Each time someone does that, a intellegent commander, who can, will drop a Grenade Launcher. The marine who receives it will make quick work of the alien. Then chances are good he will give another marine a welder. The marine who recieves the welder will weld all of their base that has taken damage from this and other attacks. Now he has spent a nice bit of resources, but now he has a marine who can go repair damaged structures and another who can spam grenades. So if you have a semi intellegent commander and team, the gorge/lerk isn't too big of a problem, the gorge/lerk is just going to make worse on themselves and their own team.
Bile is pretty strong, and with regen + adren you can take out the entire marine base . However, if there's anyone guarding the base or the marines phase through/ the comm gets out, you die. So, sure, undefended outposts will die.
The problem is that there exist a few places (the top right hand corner of hera holoroom and the powersilo hive on ns_nothing are two of the worse examples) where the only counter is jetpacks or grenade launchers. Problem? Aliens get bile bomb before marines get gls and jetpacks. Even if the marines upgraded their armoury right at the start (and thereby crippling their expansion) aliens still generally get that hive up by the 3 minute mark, and for the marines tossing out a 20 res gl early in the game can be just too costly. You gotta spend a bit on a few turrets, some phase gates, tech, and rts. A marine team fighting to keep control of just a few nodes early game can find a 20 res investment hard to justify.
This is not to say bile bomb is unbalanced, because in most cases, the gorge is easy to kill. It's the few cases where map design allows gorges to position themselves in places where they can shoot but not be shot without gls/jetpacks where inbalance is occuring. Although I do question, even now, exactly what role electrification is supposed to play in NS.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ryo-Ohki+Aug 22 2003, 09:05 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ryo-Ohki @ Aug 22 2003, 09:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem is that there exist a few places (the top right hand corner of hera holoroom and the powersilo hive on ns_nothing are two of the worse examples) where the only counter is jetpacks or grenade launchers. Problem? Aliens get bile bomb before marines get gls and jetpacks. Even if the marines upgraded their armoury right at the start (and thereby crippling their expansion) aliens still generally get that hive up by the 3 minute mark, and for the marines tossing out a 20 res gl early in the game can be just too costly. You gotta spend a bit on a few turrets, some phase gates, tech, and rts. A marine team fighting to keep control of just a few nodes early game can find a 20 res investment hard to justify.
This is not to say bile bomb is unbalanced, because in most cases, the gorge is easy to kill. It's the few cases where map design allows gorges to position themselves in places where they can shoot but not be shot without gls/jetpacks where inbalance is occuring. Although I do question, even now, exactly what role electrification is supposed to play in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> After the first 3 minutes the aliens can start a hive never got one finished. I never saw a hive up in under 6-7 mins so you have enough time to upgrade. And about the cost factor: What is cheaper? Loosing 2 res nodes + tf + 10 turrets + phase gate in holoroom or investing 20 res in a a gl and get rid of the threat. Instead you see the comms drop more turrets giving more things to kill for the bilebombing gorge. The comms must learn to invest more in weapons than in turrets since its the players that kill the aliens that threaten your res nodes and not the turrets. They are only to delay an assault and support your troops not for making a node invincible.
A comm must have thrust in his marines and invest in them and not in massive turret farms. Every comm that only relies on turrets will find his base surrounded by onos within the first 15 mins.
O Aliens can only change lifeforms when within healing range of an active hive
Ed: That's the 2.1a changelog. No more biling from vents that marines can't reach. Just wait for the patch my friend! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Actually.. that's in the 2.01c changelog, and didn't make it into 2.1a, unless you can point out the post I missed.
And even if the gorge did have to evolve at a hive, an alien team with good teamwork (read: one skulk or lerk to play elevator) can still get the gorge into a vent. Though it surely would reduce the number of such attacks on public servers.
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->This is still a work in progress, but I thought I'd post it here to see what you guys think. This list includes all the changes that are being kept from the previous 2.01 betas. Also note that this includes only the balance changes, not exploits, bugs or new features.
2.01d ------- O Electricity cost reduced from 30 to 20 O Electricity research time reduced from 60 to 30 O Electricity range increased from 90 to 110 (to prevent exploiting) O Offense chamber health reduced from 1150 to 1000 O Onos can no longer redeem while digesting a player O Added "parasite switch fun" back O Lowered marine upgrade costs from 30/40/50 to 20/30/40 O Reduce healing spray from 16 to 13 O Increase grenade damage from 110 to 125 O Fixed problem where specs can be heard talking before game start in tourny mode (untested) O Fixed problem where dead players can sometimes be heard (untested) O Fixed CURL timeout problems (untested) O Hide opposing team score in tournament mode so you can't see how many resources towers they have (untested) O New collision code to prevent players from getting stuck in structures (thanks Max!) O Fixed problem where hera holoroom double node didn't build properly O Fixed bug where being webbed and then devoured pulls out your weapon while inside the Onos O Umbra blocks 2 out of 3 bullets (down from 3 out of 4 in 2.0) O Increased bilebomb force from 600 to 800 O HMG does piercing damage (still needs something else here) O Movement chambers can only be +used to teleport to an active (not building) hive O Increased hive cost from 35 to 50 (maybe 45, can't decide) O Reduced command station cost from 25 to 20 O Reduced command station build time from 20 to 15 O Each level of celerity now increases speed by 25, down from 35 (it's now back to the 1.04 level) O Fixed blinking marine HUD artifact when switching weapons with lag O Leap reduced in speed by 20% O Shotgun clip and reserve reduced from 10/50 to 8/40 O Lowered volume of cloaking and uncloaking sounds via cloaking upgrade (they are only a third as loud as they used to be. Might also remove the sounds entirely.) O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to HAs and Oni.
-------------------- Charlie Cleveland (flayra@overmind.org) Game programmer and designer, Natural Selection<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=43142' target='_blank'>this</a> thread entitled "2.1a (renamed from 2.01d), Current balance changelog". I really doubt that the evolve only in a hive thing will make it to a final version.
Ed: That's the 2.1a changelog. No more biling from vents that marines can't reach. Just wait for the patch my friend! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Has been taken out because it cripples the aliens too much and is a huge funkiller.
If I remember correctly, aliens will now only be able to Evolve within healing distance from a hive. That means no more skulking up vents and evolving to a gorge.
make it so aliens cant evolve within range of a obs. like it messes up the hive and all the other stuff that is alien so they cant evolve but u can always evolve when within hive healing range so marines couldnt just put obs near hive and stop evolving there.
<b>BS, </b>"the gorge a weak combat unit" he can VERY easily take out individual marines climbing up a ladder or coming from a doorway (gorge spit is totally powerful); healspray does incredible amt of damage, esp. with celerity gorge, and it's multiple-hit at once; gorges have more health than marines, and hitbox error/hit registration problems/SOMETHING make it nigh impossible to kill gorges at point blank range with a singe, nay, double, nay triple LMG clips...
By the way, whoever said "two hive is SUPPOSED to be difficult for marines" ... How can you just draw up assumptions like that? If it's "SUPPOSED" to be anything, a two-hive situation is supposed to be the "balanced" game. Three-hive is difficult for marines.
And yeah. You have to ignore huge building space, packing all your turrets and buildings into a tiny corner, just because of one weapon? If one single weapon makes the commander NEED to do something, I say it's unbalanced. The other weapons/evolutions don't necessarily make the commander NEED to do anything, you can kill an Onos with LMG/pistol; but in this case you NEED to research GL/JP/relocate your buildings in order to survive... as in, there is literally NO OTHER WAY to stop the gorge in the vent short of killing the hive (which is too much to ask just to save an outpost). There should never be anything REQUIRED to combat an enemy, in any game.
Getting Gorges in the Hera holoroom spot isn't overly tough. One marine guarding the vent and the other shooting from the other side of the room can take them out. There's also human towers and the obvious JP and GL.
Bilebomb doesn't <i>force</i> the comm to do anything. But the comm has to be willing to pay the price of poorly setup and undefended bases. I was able to take out most of a holoroom setup with a Skulk. Why? Poorly setup defenses. Killing one turret was enough to make the TF vulnerable.
Most of the time, it's just an unwilling commander or lazy marines that allows vent Gorges and Lerks to exist. The counters are there, but comms seem unwilling to invest in them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Aug 23 2003, 08:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Aug 23 2003, 08:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <b>BS, </b>"the gorge a weak combat unit" he can VERY easily take out individual marines climbing up a ladder or coming from a doorway (gorge spit is totally powerful); healspray does incredible amt of damage, esp. with celerity gorge, and it's multiple-hit at once; gorges have more health than marines, and hitbox error/hit registration problems/SOMETHING make it nigh impossible to kill gorges at point blank range with a singe, nay, double, nay triple LMG clips...
By the way, whoever said "two hive is SUPPOSED to be difficult for marines" ... How can you just draw up assumptions like that? If it's "SUPPOSED" to be anything, a two-hive situation is supposed to be the "balanced" game. Three-hive is difficult for marines.
And yeah. You have to ignore huge building space, packing all your turrets and buildings into a tiny corner, just because of one weapon? If one single weapon makes the commander NEED to do something, I say it's unbalanced. The other weapons/evolutions don't necessarily make the commander NEED to do anything, you can kill an Onos with LMG/pistol; but in this case you NEED to research GL/JP/relocate your buildings in order to survive... as in, there is literally NO OTHER WAY to stop the gorge in the vent short of killing the hive (which is too much to ask just to save an outpost). There should never be anything REQUIRED to combat an enemy, in any game.
I'm with you man.
vvv <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Why are you climbing a ladder if theres a gorge around? Its like a shoot me sign. Next time you probably will complain that the gorge can easily kill you if you drop your machine gun. Just strafejump and kill him instead of making a nice target out of yourself. Gorge spit totally powerfull? Are you joking? It takes 5 hits to kill a lvl0 armor marine and 9 for lvl3. Do you know how hard it is to land a hit with spit if the marine moves? Its not a hitscan weapon.
Your "hitbox errors" are your lack of aim. Learn to shoot.
2 hive aliens being overpowered will be fixed as stated in the 2.1a changelog. But bile is fine so it doesnt get nerfed but it gets improved.
Whats with the siege then. You have to spread all your buildings and patrol the area around your hive is that unfair too? Intelligent building placement is a requirement for a good comm.
GL clears vents and buildings. HMG kills sniping lerks that the shottie can´t reach. shotties kills the onos closing on the hmg/gl soldier. I think the game is designed around different weapons being required to kill different enemys.
no but you can kill an Onos with GL, or a lerk with a shotgun, it's BETTER if you use certain weapons, but to combat indirect fire coming from an inaccessable place REQUIRES you to use an indirect fire weapon back (hence GL)
as for "learn how to aim," I know what I saw and I know what I did. I emptied LMG and pistol clips at point blank range and he didn't die. He ought to have, but obviously hits didn't register or something (happens more often that you'd think)
... I don't believe that Bile Bomb is overpowered at ALL in 2.0 (however, the Onos Stomp+Devour+Redeem combo is quite overpowered ... but that's off topic ... sorry <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->)
Anyways, any non-noob player can relatively easily counter a single gorge bilebombing your turret farm:
Scenario 1 - A Lone gorge bilebomb your base to pieces 1) Grab an HA, load up on lmg ammo and go PWN his arse. If you can't take out a gorge with HA and an lmg, then you shouldn't be playing NS at all ... get more skills! 2) Grab a jp and ANY other weapon besides an lmg and go PWN his arse. Again, if you can't take out a gorge with a jp and a shotty/hmg then you shouldn't be playing NS ... period. 3) If the gorge is in a vent, just GL his arse like you would any other alien that dares to be in a vent.
Scenario 2 - A gorge guarded by a skulk or two bilebombing your base to pieces 1) If you have fairly good aim, then you shoudl be able to take out 2 skulks and a gorge with an HA and an HMG. If not or if you lack the necessary equipment, just get a few teamates to go with you and take care of business (at least one of you should have some sort of a heavy weapon ... a stupid gorge with all of his health can be quite annoying to kill with an lmg)
Either way/scenario, you can solve your gorge bilebombing issue fairly easily. If the gorge is dumb enough to bilebomb by himself, teach him a lesson by PWNing his noob butt. If the gorge has some company, then be more prudent and grab a few teamates with some better guns.
<!--QuoteBegin--Windelkron+Aug 23 2003, 09:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Windelkron @ Aug 23 2003, 09:35 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> no but you can kill an Onos with GL, or a lerk with a shotgun, it's BETTER if you use certain weapons, but to combat indirect fire coming from an inaccessable place REQUIRES you to use an indirect fire weapon back (hence GL)
as for "learn how to aim," I know what I saw and I know what I did. I emptied LMG and pistol clips at point blank range and he didn't die. He ought to have, but obviously hits didn't register or something (happens more often that you'd think) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> You cant kill a regen lerk with a shotgun at long range its impossible. You need support fire against a lerk. And if the lerk is somewhat smart he will keep his distance and spike you to death. Different weapons are required for different jobs.
As for killing an onos with an gl: Try to get against an onos all by yourself with a gl and without teammates and turret support. Theres no chance in hell you could kill it. Your nades will miss it and it will just eat you. What allows you to kill it are the turrets/teammates that distract it and allow you to place some nades near him. Even HA/GL marines get owned easily by a single skulk if they are not protected.
And i got owned as gorge at range and close up in far less than one lmg clip by skilled shooters so i dont think there are many hitbox issues besides your aim skill
Comments
Bile bomb is the counter to turret farms.
So how should Turret Farms be stopped?
ONOS can't do it and stay alive, only umbra covered Gorges can pull it off again and again.
If you are having a problem with a Gorge being able to BB your location from a safe spot, its your Comms inexperince that casued the problem.
Learn the maps better and place your outposts with things like vents in mind!
<!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> : .
:: <!--emo&::sentry::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/turret.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='turret.gif'><!--endemo--> ::%:=====<!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo-->
HHHAHHAHHAHHAAHHA.
Seriously though... If a gorge can take down one of your outposts singlehanded... you have one of two things going wrong.
1. Your marines are horribly unorganized.
2. The Comm is a complete idiot.
A single gorge is easy to take down with 1 rine. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, there've been several times when I've been spit to death, even when firing point blank at the gorge with an HMG.
Carapaced, they're some nasty suckers.
HMG Marine 1 : Oh noooo!
HA/HMG Marine 2 : What! Have they onos already?
HMG Marine 1 : Much worse!!! A carpace gorge is wabbling at us at 0.3 mph and he surley wants to spits at me
HA/HMG Marine 2 : Argggghhh! Retreat run for your life. OMG i want my mommy.
*Marines recycle all their bases and run to the dropship*
Gorge : Sniff sniff..... but.....I just wanted to be hugged. Sniff.... no one loves me <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.natural-selection.org/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
If you have nothing but ips, turrets, and a regular armory by the time they have the second hive, things aren't going well for you anyway. They won't even need to bilebomb you, the onos will tear you a new one and you really won't be able to stop them.
Since the adv. armory is required for other useful things, its helpful to upgrade it early regardless of whether or not you need a GL. By the time bilebomb starts being a problem, you shouldn't need long to counter it unless you are already losing pretty badly. Have a marine or two babysit the gorge until the GL is done, then end the problem.
It's not like the GL is destroyed after you kill the gorge. You can use it for other things too. Don't make it seem that you are spending 30 res just to kill a gorge, when you could be killing loads of chambers with it.
This is not to say bile bomb is unbalanced, because in most cases, the gorge is easy to kill. It's the few cases where map design allows gorges to position themselves in places where they can shoot but not be shot without gls/jetpacks where inbalance is occuring. Although I do question, even now, exactly what role electrification is supposed to play in NS.
And yeah, I know what you mean. Especialy the high vent in rr. So easy to own the whole place.
This is not to say bile bomb is unbalanced, because in most cases, the gorge is easy to kill. It's the few cases where map design allows gorges to position themselves in places where they can shoot but not be shot without gls/jetpacks where inbalance is occuring. Although I do question, even now, exactly what role electrification is supposed to play in NS. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
After the first 3 minutes the aliens can start a hive never got one finished. I never saw a hive up in under 6-7 mins so you have enough time to upgrade. And about the cost factor: What is cheaper? Loosing 2 res nodes + tf + 10 turrets + phase gate in holoroom or investing 20 res in a a gl and get rid of the threat. Instead you see the comms drop more turrets giving more things to kill for the bilebombing gorge. The comms must learn to invest more in weapons than in turrets since its the players that kill the aliens that threaten your res nodes and not the turrets. They are only to delay an assault and support your troops not for making a node invincible.
A comm must have thrust in his marines and invest in them and not in massive turret farms. Every comm that only relies on turrets will find his base surrounded by onos within the first 15 mins.
O Aliens can only change lifeforms when within healing range of an active hive
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ed: That's the 2.1a changelog. No more biling from vents that marines can't reach. Just wait for the patch my friend!
O Aliens can only change lifeforms when within healing range of an active hive
Ed: That's the 2.1a changelog. No more biling from vents that marines can't reach. Just wait for the patch my friend! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually.. that's in the 2.01c changelog, and didn't make it into 2.1a, unless you can point out the post I missed.
2.01d
-------
O Electricity cost reduced from 30 to 20
O Electricity research time reduced from 60 to 30
O Electricity range increased from 90 to 110 (to prevent exploiting)
O Offense chamber health reduced from 1150 to 1000
O Onos can no longer redeem while digesting a player
O Added "parasite switch fun" back
O Lowered marine upgrade costs from 30/40/50 to 20/30/40
O Reduce healing spray from 16 to 13
O Increase grenade damage from 110 to 125
O Fixed problem where specs can be heard talking before game start in tourny mode (untested)
O Fixed problem where dead players can sometimes be heard (untested)
O Fixed CURL timeout problems (untested)
O Hide opposing team score in tournament mode so you can't see how many resources towers they have (untested)
O New collision code to prevent players from getting stuck in structures (thanks Max!)
O Fixed problem where hera holoroom double node didn't build properly
O Fixed bug where being webbed and then devoured pulls out your weapon while inside the Onos
O Umbra blocks 2 out of 3 bullets (down from 3 out of 4 in 2.0)
O Increased bilebomb force from 600 to 800
O HMG does piercing damage (still needs something else here)
O Movement chambers can only be +used to teleport to an active (not building) hive
O Increased hive cost from 35 to 50 (maybe 45, can't decide)
O Reduced command station cost from 25 to 20
O Reduced command station build time from 20 to 15
O Each level of celerity now increases speed by 25, down from 35 (it's now back to the 1.04 level)
O Fixed blinking marine HUD artifact when switching weapons with lag
O Leap reduced in speed by 20%
O Shotgun clip and reserve reduced from 10/50 to 8/40
O Lowered volume of cloaking and uncloaking sounds via cloaking upgrade (they are only a third as loud as they used to be. Might also remove the sounds entirely.)
O Sentries and offense chambers now do "light" damage. Light damage does half damage to HAs and Oni.
--------------------
Charlie Cleveland (flayra@overmind.org)
Game programmer and designer, Natural Selection<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From <a href='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=31&t=43142' target='_blank'>this</a> thread entitled "2.1a (renamed from 2.01d), Current balance changelog". I really doubt that the evolve only in a hive thing will make it to a final version.
O Aliens can only change lifeforms when within healing range of an active hive
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Ed: That's the 2.1a changelog. No more biling from vents that marines can't reach. Just wait for the patch my friend! <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Has been taken out because it cripples the aliens too much and is a huge funkiller.
30 for hive, 10 for gorge.
Simple enough get JP or GL.
But then again all this will change in the next updates.
By the way, whoever said "two hive is SUPPOSED to be difficult for marines" ...
How can you just draw up assumptions like that? If it's "SUPPOSED" to be anything, a two-hive situation is supposed to be the "balanced" game. Three-hive is difficult for marines.
And yeah. You have to ignore huge building space, packing all your turrets and buildings into a tiny corner, just because of one weapon? If one single weapon makes the commander NEED to do something, I say it's unbalanced. The other weapons/evolutions don't necessarily make the commander NEED to do anything, you can kill an Onos with LMG/pistol; but in this case you NEED to research GL/JP/relocate your buildings in order to survive... as in, there is literally NO OTHER WAY to stop the gorge in the vent short of killing the hive (which is too much to ask just to save an outpost). There should never be anything REQUIRED to combat an enemy, in any game.
I'm with you man.
vvv
Bilebomb doesn't <i>force</i> the comm to do anything. But the comm has to be willing to pay the price of poorly setup and undefended bases. I was able to take out most of a holoroom setup with a Skulk. Why? Poorly setup defenses. Killing one turret was enough to make the TF vulnerable.
Most of the time, it's just an unwilling commander or lazy marines that allows vent Gorges and Lerks to exist. The counters are there, but comms seem unwilling to invest in them.
By the way, whoever said "two hive is SUPPOSED to be difficult for marines" ...
How can you just draw up assumptions like that? If it's "SUPPOSED" to be anything, a two-hive situation is supposed to be the "balanced" game. Three-hive is difficult for marines.
And yeah. You have to ignore huge building space, packing all your turrets and buildings into a tiny corner, just because of one weapon? If one single weapon makes the commander NEED to do something, I say it's unbalanced. The other weapons/evolutions don't necessarily make the commander NEED to do anything, you can kill an Onos with LMG/pistol; but in this case you NEED to research GL/JP/relocate your buildings in order to survive... as in, there is literally NO OTHER WAY to stop the gorge in the vent short of killing the hive (which is too much to ask just to save an outpost). There should never be anything REQUIRED to combat an enemy, in any game.
I'm with you man.
vvv <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Why are you climbing a ladder if theres a gorge around? Its like a shoot me sign. Next time you probably will complain that the gorge can easily kill you if you drop your machine gun. Just strafejump and kill him instead of making a nice target out of yourself. Gorge spit totally powerfull? Are you joking? It takes 5 hits to kill a lvl0 armor marine and 9 for lvl3. Do you know how hard it is to land a hit with spit if the marine moves? Its not a hitscan weapon.
Your "hitbox errors" are your lack of aim. Learn to shoot.
2 hive aliens being overpowered will be fixed as stated in the 2.1a changelog. But bile is fine so it doesnt get nerfed but it gets improved.
Whats with the siege then. You have to spread all your buildings and patrol the area around your hive is that unfair too? Intelligent building placement is a requirement for a good comm.
GL clears vents and buildings.
HMG kills sniping lerks that the shottie can´t reach.
shotties kills the onos closing on the hmg/gl soldier.
I think the game is designed around different weapons being required to kill different enemys.
as for "learn how to aim," I know what I saw and I know what I did. I emptied LMG and pistol clips at point blank range and he didn't die. He ought to have, but obviously hits didn't register or something (happens more often that you'd think)
Anyways, any non-noob player can relatively easily counter a single gorge bilebombing your turret farm:
Scenario 1 - A Lone gorge bilebomb your base to pieces
1) Grab an HA, load up on lmg ammo and go PWN his arse. If you can't take out a gorge with HA and an lmg, then you shouldn't be playing NS at all ... get more skills!
2) Grab a jp and ANY other weapon besides an lmg and go PWN his arse. Again, if you can't take out a gorge with a jp and a shotty/hmg then you shouldn't be playing NS ... period.
3) If the gorge is in a vent, just GL his arse like you would any other alien that dares to be in a vent.
Scenario 2 - A gorge guarded by a skulk or two bilebombing your base to pieces
1) If you have fairly good aim, then you shoudl be able to take out 2 skulks and a gorge with an HA and an HMG. If not or if you lack the necessary equipment, just get a few teamates to go with you and take care of business (at least one of you should have some sort of a heavy weapon ... a stupid gorge with all of his health can be quite annoying to kill with an lmg)
Either way/scenario, you can solve your gorge bilebombing issue fairly easily. If the gorge is dumb enough to bilebomb by himself, teach him a lesson by PWNing his noob butt. If the gorge has some company, then be more prudent and grab a few teamates with some better guns.
Good luck!
as for "learn how to aim," I know what I saw and I know what I did. I emptied LMG and pistol clips at point blank range and he didn't die. He ought to have, but obviously hits didn't register or something (happens more often that you'd think) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
You cant kill a regen lerk with a shotgun at long range its impossible. You need support fire against a lerk. And if the lerk is somewhat smart he will keep his distance and spike you to death. Different weapons are required for different jobs.
As for killing an onos with an gl: Try to get against an onos all by yourself with a gl and without teammates and turret support. Theres no chance in hell you could kill it. Your nades will miss it and it will just eat you. What allows you to kill it are the turrets/teammates that distract it and allow you to place some nades near him. Even HA/GL marines get owned easily by a single skulk if they are not protected.
And i got owned as gorge at range and close up in far less than one lmg clip by skilled shooters so i dont think there are many hitbox issues besides your aim skill