Nancy Remake Team.

LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
edited December 2003 in Mapping Forum
This one is FOR REAL.
Alright I'm editing this post to make it the faq.
QUOTE

The Nancy Project FAQ

Please read before asking questions or making suggestions!


Why don't you get the original from the author?
The original .RMF file was lost after a hard-drive failure on Devildog's computer.
This file is needed in order to make changes and compile the map.

Umm... Nancy wasn't lost... I have the 1.04 map on my harddrive... why can't you use that?
Yes, many of us have it.  The problem with the old map is that it was compiled with the wrong hull file.  This wasn't apparent until 2.0 came around and now Onos are stuck every time they evolve.  And using /stuck is simply not adequate enough of a fix for the NS team.  Plus, no balance changes were able to be made so the map's gameplay became outdated.

So why don't you just take the map, and make the changes needed?
The .BSP file is nearly useless when trying to make changes to a map.  It's the final optimized version.  The Nancy-Team did use it though, in two ways.  The first was for reference.  Taking screenshots and walking around, they were able to get a good idea of what it should look like.  Second, by using a decompiler and were able to get some of the brush work back.  This only made using getting the basic dimensions easier to get as decompilers are simply not very efficient and the brushwork they provide is far from optimal.  While the entity work can be gotten from RIPent, this still leaves detail brushwork, texturing (a massive job on it's own) and lighting and since we don't have the lights.rad file that Devildog used, lighting is taking a bit of work as well.  

Blah and Blah sucked back in the old Nancy.  You should change it.
The map is going to be done as faithfully as possible to the original, at least until playtesting by the NS Team.  Then, balancing changes will be made as suggested by the playtesters, developers and the original author of the map, DevilDog.

What's changed?
Major changes being made thus far are:
-New onos hull file.
-Changes to Port hive to allow Onos movement
-Added connection between the two vent "systems"
-Easier access to vents after removing "lip"
-Texture alignment issues

Can we see some screenshots?
Due to the faithful recreation, you can simply load up the old Nancy and see it there.  There are a couple of rough screens of the changes to port, but none have been released of the changes to the vents.  Use your imagination in the meantime.  (Though for those who don't have the old version of NS, some screens of it may be posted if someone were so nice as to create them.)

Why not just release it so we all can play it!  Mass playtesting!
The answer is no, for now.  The team wants to have a good quality project released, not betas all over the place.  The first releases will be internal to the NS team.  In fact, the intention is to have it playtested there.  If it's decided at some point that the map just can't cut it, then and ONLY then will it be released publicly as a "custom" map.  That scenario is highly unlikley as the map has been played before.  

Isn't it too late to be included in 3.0?
The map has been played before.  Unlike the other "new maps", basic things are known about how it plays.  The testing that needs to be done are bug testing and testing with the new gameplay.  Isolating imbalances and fixing them are also on the to-do list.  While some maps may need complete revisiting, Nancy (in theory) shouldn't need much.  And worse come to worse, it will be in another small pack released via Steam.  Remember, NS is going to steam, and that means dynamic content!  Either way, Flayra has expressed interest in getting this map back in and since he has final say in such matters...

Why isn't this thread stickied?
Stickied threads are meant to be useful.  Particularly in the mapping forum.  I wouldn't call the information here terribly useful (though I'm sure there is some useful stuff).  It's just ... well ... ask the moderators ... biggrin.gif

I don't feel like reading 9 gajillion pages of this thread.  What did I miss?
Nothing.  If it's not written in this FAQ, don't worry about it.  

I don't feel like reading the FAQ.  I'm going to post a question answered here anyway.
Then expect all answers to that question to point (hopefully without flammage) to this FAQ.  (Hint, hint regular readers...)

Why is this thread open to the public if we aren't supposed to ask questions about it?
This thread is here so that we can all see the status of the map.  It's a very communtiy oriented project really!  This FAQ is merely here to answer the questions asked every couple of pages.  I'm sure the team doesn't mind if you ask what the status of the map is every now and then.  (Besides... we don't want this on the second page now, do we?)  If you have a specific question, do feel free to ask.  And do feel free to keep giving these guys the kudos they deserve!  Such l337 teamwork hax!

Who's remaking Nancy?
Credits:
Original Map Author:  DevilDog
Remake Leader: Lazer
Port/Lighting:  DarkTI
Sub/Various Optimization:  WolfWings
MarineStart:  OneEyed
Decompile: Minsk


I really think that sums up everything right now.
Post edited by Unknown User on
-ns2_icarus original map
-ns_nancy remake lead
«13456759

Comments

  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    Maybe this'll spark some interest....

    In development shot of messhall:
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    and the hallway outside:
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • HazeHaze O RLY? Join Date: 2003-07-07 Member: 18018Members, Constellation Posts: 4,859
  • NayNay Join Date: 2002-06-09 Member: 741Members Posts: 359
    theres a small percentage that the original author might be willing to give you the original rmf / map :o but i doubt it, worth a try though
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    edited August 2003
    QUOTE (Nay @ Aug 19 2003, 06:29 PM)
    theres a small percentage that the original author might be willing to give you the original rmf / map :o but i doubt it, worth a try though

    ...where have you been!??! Nancy was lost in a HD crash and there were major onos stuck issues when used in 2.0. Therefore Nancy was removed from being an official map in 2.0. It also is unable to be updated because of the source being lost.

    The whole point of this project is to remake it and hand it back over to DevilDog.
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • OneEyedOneEyed Join Date: 2003-03-14 Member: 14493Members Posts: 155
    edited August 2003
    I'll give you points for mess hall, because it looks pretty damn close to the original, but that hallway, needs some massive work done on it =p

    Make sure you mark down the detail to the very last inch, if your going to redo something, redo it 100%
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    Actually, the structure of the hallway is PERFECT. I just haven't added that much to the left. The lighting is off of coarse, I haven't gotten around to tweaking it yet. Messhall is actually missing a couple of storage boxes or whatever you want to call them right now.
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • NayNay Join Date: 2002-06-09 Member: 741Members Posts: 359
    edited August 2003
  • DarkFrostDarkFrost Join Date: 2003-04-03 Member: 15154Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation Posts: 1,417
    All i can say is


    I love you man!

    /me hugs lazer
  • enf0rcerenf0rcer intrigued... Join Date: 2003-03-16 Member: 14584Members Posts: 2,473 Advanced user
    confused.gif i don't think that it should be a 100% copy. The map would look better if you enhance it some as well as keep the design.
    image
  • MausMaus Join Date: 2002-11-03 Member: 5599Members Posts: 2,532
    I agree with enforcer - it could use a bit of a facelift, just as the other maps were tweaked for 2.0.
    user posted image
  • SpookSpook Join Date: 2003-07-29 Member: 18542Members Posts: 45
    Ok, maybe I'm just mistaken, but it sounds to me like 100% copy is exactly what Lazer actually wants, because the plan is to help out DevilDog by recreating his lost map source. Thus, changes and improvements are left completely up to the original designer, not to the whims of the community

    This is not meant to be an enhancement, or a tribute, or even meant to be distributed - it's meant to be a favour to a map designer that earned a lot of respect in the community with his map, and fell in to a little hard luck.
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    Exactly spook. The only fixes I'm doing are slight texture alignment problems and things like that. (Most of the hallways had problems with that vent texture that runs along the sides of the walkway)
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • EpochEpoch Join Date: 2002-10-10 Member: 1474Members Posts: 329
    edited August 2003
    That looks very nice! I am impressed.

    As long as you are making fixes, please change the enterances to the vents to be flush with the walls.

    I know how to use the mapping tools, but I am afraid that I don't have the time to help you with this.

    Best of luck to you, I'm looking forward to seeing someone finish this project.

    [edit] I read that you aren't doing architectual changes. Oh well. [/edit]
  • CronosCronos Join Date: 2002-10-18 Member: 1542Members Posts: 1,823
    I can lend a hand on minor details if you wish (hallways, etc).

    I have the original nancy for comparison so I can make it with a fair amount of accuracy...
    image

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.
  • ViPrViPr Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members Posts: 756
    i'd just like to say how much i appreciate what you're doing. please make the map as true to the original as possible. in fact for future please can all mapmakers keep old copies of their maps when they make drastic changes like they did for 2.0 just because i'm nostalgic.
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation Posts: 5,602
    edited August 2003
    hey m8 i can lend you a hand. i have mapped for over 2 years in hl and 6 months in ns atleast. just ask me what bits to recreate.

    EDIT: ive started to make the readyroom
    Post edited by Unknown User on
  • SupernornSupernorn Best. Picture. Ever. Made. Ever. Join Date: 2002-11-07 Member: 7608Members, Constellation Posts: 4,412
    that looks pretty dam good guys. I like the new lighting especially.
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Members Posts: 1,594
    Im not this big fan of nancy. but these screenies look even better than the original (in my eyes). maybe the guys that want to remake nancy give the project a theme, make the map more playable. the most impressive locations of nancy should be enough as a base for the remake. and: it looks better than the original wink.gif

    IPB Image
    Give custom maps a chance!
  • G_a_a_r_aG_a_a_r_a Join Date: 2003-08-11 Member: 19432Members Posts: 30
    Where have you guys been,
    ns_nancy has been out a while for 2.0,
    with no bugs.....
    ns_nancy
    user posted image
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation Posts: 5,602
  • Lt_GravityLt_Gravity Join Date: 2003-04-28 Member: 15909Members Posts: 1,594
    creation date 01.02.03 confused.gif (02|01|03 for the english readers ^^)
    and the only bugfix I could find out was, that noname hive no has got a name: NONAME! should I laugh or should I cry? and no, ITS NOT 2.0 PLAYABLE! everywhere you get stuck when u evolve to onos. dunno what to think about this... nancy team, continue your work. maybe some day there will be a map that is playable in 2.0 EVEN AS ONOS!

    IPB Image
    Give custom maps a chance!
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    QUOTE (coolcookiecooks @ Aug 20 2003, 02:03 AM)
    hey m8 i can lend you a hand. i have mapped for over 2 years in hl and 6 months in ns atleast. just ask me what bits to recreate.

    EDIT: ive started to make the readyroom

    Alright nice. Do you idle anywhere on irc.gamesnet.net? Either that or a screenname?

    Oh and Cronos, sure. Feel free to pick a spot of the map to make.
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • CoolCookieCooksCoolCookieCooks Pretty Girl Join Date: 2003-05-18 Member: 16446Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor, Constellation Posts: 5,602
    yea i idle in #nsmodelling on gamesnet

    ive started the readyroom.
  • bluemanblueman Join Date: 2002-04-09 Member: 399Members Posts: 1,258
    mmm first of all you should email devildog to get authorisation to remake HIS map.

    If youve already done this, i hope you please dont remake lighting as it was, please MAKE a change.
    Creator of co_ulysses, ns_nirvana, ns_mystic and co_angel
    http://jordicarazo.wordpress.com/
  • DriftwoodDriftwood Join Date: 2002-11-11 Member: 8245Members Posts: 487
    I would advocate doing a nancy 2.0, but since Lazer seems to have a clear object set (remake nancy for DD), I won't campaign for it. It's just that nancy, as it is, doesn't in my opinion go well with 2.0. It has too many chokepoints, only one marine friendly entrance to each hive and a vent system resembling a labyrinth.

    Also, are there two projects of remaking nancy? I'm not sure if ozbirdboy is doing an exact replica, but is this overlapping really necessary? In my opinion it would be far more logical to have a nancy remake team and the nancy 2.0 team rather than two teams remaking the same map.

    Just one more thing, is Devildog interested in working with nancy in the future? Has the team contacted him already and talked about the project?
  • ViPrViPr Resident naysayer Join Date: 2002-10-17 Member: 1515Members Posts: 756
    you should make the map as close to the original as possible and leave it up to the original author to update it for 2.0 unless he gives persmission to someone else and even then i think a copy of the old nancy should be kept for nostalgic value.

    btw you guys shouldn't always think about how the map works in NS. you should think of it as something independant that can be used for other games in future with textures replaced of course.
  • NazulNazul Join Date: 2002-11-17 Member: 9052Members Posts: 278
    those pics look terrific , i fin ns_nancy the worst map with 2 other maps ,but hey smile.gif i like this one , lightning is better , mess hall looks cool ! make more
    - Proud NS player -
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    Ozbirdboy made it very clear that he wants to do the whole thing by himself so he can do whatever he wants to with the map. He planned on even renaming the map, and when people replied telling him not to, he had no response to it. Plus, a team is gonna get this done a lot quicker. Here is some more progress with a little old / new to show you how close it it. (tweaking still needs to be done but will be done later)

    Old:
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester Posts: 1,690
    New:
    -ns2_icarus original map
    -ns_nancy remake lead
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