Alien Courtesy
Necrosis
The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
The Loquacious Sage Join Date: 2003-08-03 Member: 18828Members, Constellation
<div class="IPBDescription">How not to annoy the team..</div> I'm new but I'm familiar with strat games and teamplay, so I learned the ropes quick enough. I like marines but with the dire comms situation i end up on the kharaa more often than not.
I end up as gorge, and have suffered some really trippy stuff, so I thought I'd make a note here for potential Kharaa recruits, mostly from my gorge viewpoint.
Number one - Communicate. As a gorge I need to know who's building what else where. If I'm building defences on our first hive, I like to know someone else is on RT cap detail. Also, when building the first sens/def/move tower, let the team know. I tend to open with sensory so I can hide the offense towers, and most people are happy with that, but it costs nothing to say "going gorge, building defences at Hive" or "Sensory tower first, ok?" Also make sure you're not building the same thing at the one base. Nothing sucks more than to find a base with a dozen Sensory and only one offensive. There's no need for it. Likewise when a new tower is available, make sure one is at each hive. Otherwise when a surprise attack hits us, our side will not be happy to discover noone bothered to tip off the gorges about a defensive needed at hive 2. We are not psychic, and in most games gorges will not return to a hive unless they're dead or are told defences are needed.
2 - Work to a game plan. In most games capping the hives is an early move. If every other gorge is on defence or RT cap, try and save some points for a hive. If you're not a gorge try harassing the enemy from their RTs.
3 - Please, please PLEASE do not lead soldiers to a gorge building defences. There is nothing more annoying than losing your spot because a fade ran to you with 3 marines in tow. We understand you need healing but we cant do it if we're dead. Yes we know you need defensive towers and if you tell us where the trouble is then we can work our way there slowly using sensory for cover.
4 - When you complain about needing def and off towers, don't run off and leave them after bringing a soldier to them. I just wasted 40 or 50 rps building them and unlike you they WONT come back in a minute. This is a very real problem and I have built solid defences around areas only to have everyone run off. And then restart moaning about needing defs. If we are busy building your def towers and sensory towers, we have no points to build the offensive ones. While we wait for those points YOU are meant to be continuing that attack.
5 - While communicating, keep it simple and coherent. Listen/read to other people too. I keep seeing "incoming" with no idea of what direction. North of location? South? Your location comes up with the message but for all we know you could have meant "incoming for you guys on the other side of the map".
6 - If your last hive is getting totalled, and a player says to you "they've left X hive undefended bar turrets" then try and get to that hive. At the very least it allows you to build more towers until one of the hives goes down.
7- Capping RTs is important but defending them should be restricted to the ones nearest the hive. Defending halfway across the map doesnt work. By all means cap the rt, but save your RPs for nearer the hive. Sensory junctions, go for RTs that you can easily keep together. Thats your concern as a gorge. If you have spare time, go recap an RT. You are not an attacker, you are not designed to cross the map through enemy turf in search of virgin Rts. Rely on your friends for that. If you build across the map, you can either be cut off at best or at worst the Marines will break through at ONE junction and manage to get to your hives with ease.
8- Likewise don't scream at a gorge if he doesn't cross the map to get to your unholdable RT. If it means so much to you, change from an Onos back to gorge and build it yourself. A gorge has bigger worries, like defending the base while everyone goes walkies.
9- Work together. I've been in late games where I've built sensory and def all around a two RT strongpoint. covered every entrance, only to see one onos, or one fade, or one lerk, run forward into the room, get shot up and die/redeem or flee on top of me spamming their taunt. Or flee near the invisible defences I've put up and guaranteed that stray shots reveal the structures. Give the gorge some courtesy, and there's no need for spam taunting, we do have eyes. If we're not healing you its because you've lead 3 soldiers to us or we're trying to rebuild the defenses that got totalled when you ran. If there are eight of you single file outside a room, bite the bullet and go for it. Otherwise the Marine player will ping you, revealing everything under the sensories, and shoot it all to hell. Which reminds me, no matter how invisible you think Sensory makes you, don't run to an equally invisible gorge. Grenades will take out you, him, and the sensory.
10 - Please use an ounce of wit when placing things. Don't put 6 offensive in a pit. Don't cover an RT spot with an offensive. I have been in a game where a room had its RT spot covered with turret. Nice waste of an rt. And the turret hit nothing. Think! Sensories, long corridors, and offensives. Put them in places people will attack. Put them in key junctions. Don't just spam them or put then in ridiculous places.
Pretty much all I can think of. Again, I'm new to the game but the above is selfexplanatory. Sticking to those rules I've seen much more wins than losses while using Kharaa.
I end up as gorge, and have suffered some really trippy stuff, so I thought I'd make a note here for potential Kharaa recruits, mostly from my gorge viewpoint.
Number one - Communicate. As a gorge I need to know who's building what else where. If I'm building defences on our first hive, I like to know someone else is on RT cap detail. Also, when building the first sens/def/move tower, let the team know. I tend to open with sensory so I can hide the offense towers, and most people are happy with that, but it costs nothing to say "going gorge, building defences at Hive" or "Sensory tower first, ok?" Also make sure you're not building the same thing at the one base. Nothing sucks more than to find a base with a dozen Sensory and only one offensive. There's no need for it. Likewise when a new tower is available, make sure one is at each hive. Otherwise when a surprise attack hits us, our side will not be happy to discover noone bothered to tip off the gorges about a defensive needed at hive 2. We are not psychic, and in most games gorges will not return to a hive unless they're dead or are told defences are needed.
2 - Work to a game plan. In most games capping the hives is an early move. If every other gorge is on defence or RT cap, try and save some points for a hive. If you're not a gorge try harassing the enemy from their RTs.
3 - Please, please PLEASE do not lead soldiers to a gorge building defences. There is nothing more annoying than losing your spot because a fade ran to you with 3 marines in tow. We understand you need healing but we cant do it if we're dead. Yes we know you need defensive towers and if you tell us where the trouble is then we can work our way there slowly using sensory for cover.
4 - When you complain about needing def and off towers, don't run off and leave them after bringing a soldier to them. I just wasted 40 or 50 rps building them and unlike you they WONT come back in a minute. This is a very real problem and I have built solid defences around areas only to have everyone run off. And then restart moaning about needing defs. If we are busy building your def towers and sensory towers, we have no points to build the offensive ones. While we wait for those points YOU are meant to be continuing that attack.
5 - While communicating, keep it simple and coherent. Listen/read to other people too. I keep seeing "incoming" with no idea of what direction. North of location? South? Your location comes up with the message but for all we know you could have meant "incoming for you guys on the other side of the map".
6 - If your last hive is getting totalled, and a player says to you "they've left X hive undefended bar turrets" then try and get to that hive. At the very least it allows you to build more towers until one of the hives goes down.
7- Capping RTs is important but defending them should be restricted to the ones nearest the hive. Defending halfway across the map doesnt work. By all means cap the rt, but save your RPs for nearer the hive. Sensory junctions, go for RTs that you can easily keep together. Thats your concern as a gorge. If you have spare time, go recap an RT. You are not an attacker, you are not designed to cross the map through enemy turf in search of virgin Rts. Rely on your friends for that. If you build across the map, you can either be cut off at best or at worst the Marines will break through at ONE junction and manage to get to your hives with ease.
8- Likewise don't scream at a gorge if he doesn't cross the map to get to your unholdable RT. If it means so much to you, change from an Onos back to gorge and build it yourself. A gorge has bigger worries, like defending the base while everyone goes walkies.
9- Work together. I've been in late games where I've built sensory and def all around a two RT strongpoint. covered every entrance, only to see one onos, or one fade, or one lerk, run forward into the room, get shot up and die/redeem or flee on top of me spamming their taunt. Or flee near the invisible defences I've put up and guaranteed that stray shots reveal the structures. Give the gorge some courtesy, and there's no need for spam taunting, we do have eyes. If we're not healing you its because you've lead 3 soldiers to us or we're trying to rebuild the defenses that got totalled when you ran. If there are eight of you single file outside a room, bite the bullet and go for it. Otherwise the Marine player will ping you, revealing everything under the sensories, and shoot it all to hell. Which reminds me, no matter how invisible you think Sensory makes you, don't run to an equally invisible gorge. Grenades will take out you, him, and the sensory.
10 - Please use an ounce of wit when placing things. Don't put 6 offensive in a pit. Don't cover an RT spot with an offensive. I have been in a game where a room had its RT spot covered with turret. Nice waste of an rt. And the turret hit nothing. Think! Sensories, long corridors, and offensives. Put them in places people will attack. Put them in key junctions. Don't just spam them or put then in ridiculous places.
Pretty much all I can think of. Again, I'm new to the game but the above is selfexplanatory. Sticking to those rules I've seen much more wins than losses while using Kharaa.
Comments
The skulk who kills the most should be the one to put the hive up.
Gorges saving for hives is an old concept, now its skulks saving for hives.
Everyone on the team should go gorge at one point or another in the game, no one should be gorge for more than half of the game.
Cycling gorges is the way forwards.
What I do know is that I tend to stay gorge, and thats mostly because I'm a particularly poor skulk. When I go skulk, I get killed without doing ANY damage, which means I've wasted res for zero gain. In my experience its good to make res profit. Staying gorge, it might not be "the best thing to do" but it DOES mean I contribute more effectively to the team effort. And that better attackers don't need to go gorge, instead they can concentrate on doing what THEY do best <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
Sure, on small servers its suicide to stay gorge, but when there's 7 aside I've been able to stay gorge all match and lay down towers like there's no tomorrow.
All this is IMHO btw. No offence intended.
Looking at the first one, I'm taking into account that most alien teams are going with sensory first. Now, if half of the alien team goes gorge and caps RTs/drops sensory, that leaves only one option for healing: the hive. Without forward healing stations, the "fighting" aliens are left out in the cold in a near battle and may have a lot treck back to heal for the next fight. By having a deidicated gorge roaming the map, capping RTs and setting up choke points, the fighters now have an option for healing other than the hive. Even better, it's a <u>mobile</u> healing option that can move in close to a fight and maintain those persons engaged in conflict.
The second point is the open morphs. Now that people can keep saving up for the morph they want, there's no incentive to pay attention to the gorge. Often times, the best fighters gain lots of kills, morph up and gain even more kills. Many people play NS for the point of the conflict, fighting and beating others online, not for building a handful of structures (at best) and then dying/suiciding to go back into fighting. Also, that person that's racking up all the kills and gaining all the res needs to keep doing that. If there's someone that is a poor fighter, let that person stay gorge. Why would you want to pull your best fighters out of the battle just to build something?
Finally, one point that I didnt bring up, deals with public servers. With the number of new players/Other-MOD players coming into the game, there's a general point of view that the gorge is a useless morph. Often, it's hard to get newer players to go gorge and build something because they're playing for kill/gank/death. That puts the "burden" of being gorge onto the experienced players to provide the support for those that are fighting.
Now, does this mean that a perma gorge is the best thing? Not at all. I cant wait until I can get together with my clan and work in an organized unit where rotating gorges are a viable possibility. However, on a public server, there's little/no chance for rotating gorges to work. People just arent interested in doing "the dirty work" and prefer to be fighting instead. Also, having everyone on the team going gorge at one time or another is a requirement. At game start, I, or another experienced player, is telling folks to run to a RT, go gorge and cap it so we have a higher income from the start. Unfortunatly, after this initial "gorge rush" people just want to kill and have fun.
I'm not trying to say one way is better than another or that anyones' PoV is wrong, I'm just pointing out that there are times when "old standards" are necessary and can work rather well in the long run.
And anyway, who cant help but luv the fatty? <!--emo&::gorge::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/pudgy.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='pudgy.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
There was one game where I managed to get a very decent amount of resource by killing lots of marines as a skulk, I didn't know a hive costs 35, kept thinking it cost 80. Went Gorge, set up the hive with plenty of chambers, and a resource tower, no one acknowledged or even appreciated my efforts...
At least I haven't heard the phrase 'Ungorge!', for quite a while now...
Yes, and I've seen almost every alien loss due to this.
NSPlayer(1): OMG I'M A PWNOS - I WILL KILL THE BASE WITH 6 HA/HMG IN IT!!!
NSPlayer(1): FFS SUCH BS, I GOT KILLED! THE MARINES H4X!!1!11!11!
Well done you just gave the marines a load of res, wasted a lot of ours and we dont even have 2 hives yet...
I'm a pub player, always will be. I go onos in the endgame, which for me is literally the final base rush. Having seen woeful gorge behaviour and *knowing* I am better, I go gorge because it gets us the win.
Now that said tonight I went skulk, and for the 4 or so Res it cost me I got zero gain. I know my limits. I may be a nub skulk buy by hell I can pwn with the laughing cow. I was born to play gorge. I feel warm knowing my defences mess up marine attacks. Trust me, as a skulk I went to our hives and saw zero defence, no towers, nothing. When we got hive 3 we didn't have one movement tower near any hive. It was NOT funny and we ended up losing a hive and having a struggle over the second before going on to win.
I spectated a match tonight where one marine with a jetpack and HMG took out a whole hive single handedly. Zero towers, zero defenders, and a diabolically poor alien response. Could all have been slowed down by at least half a dozen towers for him to hack through, and slowed down means long enough for all hands on deck to appear.
It is so easy to gain res as a skulk if youre a good player, they should be the ones that help with hive building. Its not hard to get that res back!
Dont go Onos until there are two hives for the infamous devour + redemption combo w/ cloaking. Waste of res if you morph before.
Think we're straying offtopic but anyhow.... with sensories near the RTs, i've seen early Onos pick off marines one by one using devour and keeping close to the sensories.
"It is so easy to gain res as a skulk if youre a good player, they should be the ones that help with hive building"
Good skulkers might not be good builders though. If I go from good gorge to dire skulk then at most I'm only costing myself 6 rps. If a good skulk goes dire gorge, he costs himself, say, 50 res for the buildings and a ton of strategic edge. Half a dozen towers in the wrong spot can cripple kharaa plans.
newbie onos players die easily with no defense, there are always exceptions. the thing is that if you go onos and die, you just cost your team a hive that could have been built by you
no chance of "oh noooo, built a hive just outside of marine base"..
but I do agree - <b>communication</b> is the key. say you are building a hive - it helps so much.
1 - Gorge rotation is definetly the way to go for matches. Except the defense gorge. The gorge who sets up all the ocs is sitll getting res off them, so keep him as perma gorge. The hive and rt gorges must rotate. Its only 2 res to go skulk, and you get that back while you're morphing.
2 - Bringing marines to defenses is great when A: you're going to back the defenses up, not leave it to them, and B: The gorge actually has something going. If its 1 oc and he's building 3 other towers, stay away for god sakes.
3 - Onos wihtout 2 hives is f'in stupid, nuff said <!--emo&::asrifle::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/asrifle.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='asrifle.gif'><!--endemo--> <!--emo&::onos::--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tiny.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tiny.gif'><!--endemo-->
I think i forgot half the other stuff i was going to say, but that's enough.
They'll just shoot the gorge and then mop up the halfmade defense. If you've got enough RPs and you're going to die, then just die and spawn back in. Otherwise you're taking the gorge and all the defences, which'll likely add up to more than your cost, both in res and strategic value.
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Well done you just gave the marines a load of res, wasted a lot of ours and we dont even have 2 hives yet...<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hold on a minute, so your saying that the amount of res the other team gets res based on how many res the victim cost to make? I thought it was just random 1-3 res regardless of victim.
As well as the x res the marines get..
And then add in the cost of losing an RT/chokepoint/hive because NSplayer went onos instead of capping an RT/setting good defences/taking hive.
So its not just a case of "dewd they only got 3 res kchillthx" which is what I've seen as a counter on the servers.
You did not just give them 3 res, you gave them 100 points you spent on something you could not use and you've just forced a better teamplayer to spend his points on a hive rather than a fade/lerk/onos that, unlike you, he CAN use.
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Indeed. I was putting up a SC once when a skulk came by, saw me, ran off a bit, got shot at by some marines, and then knowingly ran back right into the SC I was building.
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May as well kill myself rather than give a rine the satisfaction, hehe.
I don't care if it costs the game - IMHO if losing one gorge costs you the game, you need to reevaluate your strategy.