What Is Caseless Ammo?

Archzai · May 2003

can someone explain to me pls? cuz i hear all these ppl talkin about it... jus wonerin... much thx...

FireStorm · May 2003

I think it's some kind of ammo that when fired doesn't eject shells.

Thansal · May 2003

basic idea is that you use solid propelent for the 'case'

normaly you have the brass case that then has the bullet as well as propelent(gunpowder) and wadding, as well as a blasting cap (this is what the hammer of the gun strikes to ignight the propelent)

Casseles has no brass, and infact it is just a block of propelent that is compleatly ussed up in fireing.

I think the idea was that it is light weight and you can put more bullets into a smaller clip <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

also it usses a dif fireing mechanism (I think it might be electricity tohugh I am unsure)

there yah go <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

[edit] oh, yah if you wana find out more try this <a href='http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&safe=off&q=caseless+ammo&spell=1' target='_blank'>link</a>

MonsieurEvil · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ May 8 2003, 08:50 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> I think the idea was that it is light weight and you can put more bullets into a smaller clip <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

also it usses a dif fireing mechanism (I think it might be electricity tohugh I am unsure) </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'>

It also theoretically makes your weapon much more reliable, as you remove many of the unreliable firing steps like pushing the spent casing out of the ejection port. The main downside is that it's far more expensive and complex to manufacture, and that (in the west) the 5.56 NATO Ball round has been the standard since, oh, 1960, so they have an awful lot of ammo to use up and previous rifles to be tossed. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

There are some examples of this weapon, but it's never really caught on (like Heckler and Koch's G11, for example). It doesn't use an electrical firing mechanism though, just a firing pin like usual...

eggmac · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (MonsieurEvil @ May 8 2003, 07:34 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

and that (in the west) the 5.56 NATO Ball round has been the standard since, oh, 1960, so they have an awful lot of ammo to use up and previous rifles to be tossed. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

 </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
That explains the current political situation <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'>

MonsieurEvil · May 2003

Not really - although it might explain a military situation. Not a political one though. Thanks for playing. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

NeedDirections · May 2003

well, NATO is a political situation though <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

TenSix · May 2003

Mock up of a caseless ammo bullet: <a href='http://www.gunsite.narod.ru/hk_g11am.gif' target='_blank'>http://www.gunsite.narod.ru/hk_g11am.gif</a>

Would be pretty fitting for NS, although I fail to see how it would have any use in game <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'>

MonsieurEvil · May 2003

We like having cased ammo in NS because it's cooler to have a spewing animation of spent cases flying out your ejection port as you pick off a skulk mid-leap and see him crumble up with all the new 1.1 death animations. More satisfying. <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

(edit: and I'm not sure how NATO agreeing on a standard caliber of ammunition 40 years ago is a political situation. It is a logistical one. But let's take that into one of the discussion forums please <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> ).

NeedDirections · May 2003

I was merely indicating that NATO itself has a lot of political impact on the world since you mentioned *NATO* rounds.
...in other words, using NATO rounds is a political statement, even if admitadly a rather weak one (Switzerland for example [edits: not being in the NATO] uses 5.6mm rounds).

NumbersNotFound · May 2003

It's funny how the G11 was made like 30 years ago and is still used in movies as a "futuristic" weapon...

Another advantage to no ejection is a HUGE rate of fire.. the G11 can fire three rounds before the recoil of the first catches up with you...

MonsieurEvil · May 2003

Ehhhhh... ok. I still don't follow you ND, but it's probably because I am very tired.

<img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

Thansal · May 2003

umm, 404, I tihnk you are tihnking of <a href='http://www.metalstorm.com/' target='_blank'>Metal Storm</a> (they actualy do have a working caseless pistol)

though, their stuff is sorta diff (though somuch cooler <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>)

Palmaneen · May 2003

<a href='http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm' target='_blank'>Here</a> are some videos of the G11 in action. I really love that gun <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Renegade · May 2003

Ammo comes in bullets because the gun-powder rods or balls (yes, the two types of gun-powder are rods and balls <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>) needs to be behind the actual lead. Caseless ammo is basically A bullet with a pseudo-gun-powder substiture attached to the bullet that disitegrates and acts like gun-powder when activated.

Liku · May 2003

I haven't heard of Caseless Ammo until now.

NumbersNotFound · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Thansal @ May 8 2003, 02:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> umm, 404, I tihnk you are tihnking of <a href='http://www.metalstorm.com/' target='_blank'>Metal Storm</a> (they actualy do have a working caseless pistol)

though, their stuff is sorta diff (though somuch cooler <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>)  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
no it's the G11 that i'm thinking about.. never even heard of metal storm.

Jammer · May 2003

Shells are cool. Otherwise, what would fall out and go klinkity klink?
And the Matrix would have sucked with caseless ammo. :-)

AllUrHiveRblong2us · May 2003

OOOO! So that's what all of the guys in the HL2 screenies are useing!

Archzai · May 2003

thx guys <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> finally i get it <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

o n there IS a g11 <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

TacOne · May 2003

G11: godly 2000 rpm

*drools*

Moquiao · May 2003

P90 is caseless isnt it?

if it isnt i know the H&K G11 is..

Cereal_KillR · May 2003

huh no I don't think P90 is caseless. Actually I'm sure it's not.

Red_Wizard · May 2003

SS190 rounds are not caseless at all. The reason you probably think the P90 is caseless is because the ejection port for spent casings is on the bottom of the gun, mainly to prevent contaminants from entering the ejection cycle.
2000 RPM is a high figure, but a rate of fire that high is impractical, as sustained fire at that speed is highly likely to overheat one's barrel. Caseless ammunition has another problem in that the more complicated system for using the rounds has more parts that can malfunction.

Thansal · May 2003

umm, I don't think so

it infact has FEWER moving parts (part of the idea) no spent brass = nop jamming

hehe, metal storm (linkeh up top) has a working gun that fires 1 mill rnds per second <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'> will NOT over heat, it will just knock anytihng it is mounted on over <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'>

go to their webbie and DL the vids they are absolutly AMAZING to watch (and some really cool ideas in concept, though curently impracticle)

GreyPaws · May 2003

I think you have to do more maintenace on the weapon, wouldnt the foul on the barrel be way worse? Usually after I go through 400 rounds (WOLF Luger Parebllum 9x19) on the H&K 9mm usp the barrel and the little slide (forgot the name dont have my manual with me) that guides the round into the barrel are VERY fouled up, black in fact. On my benelli M3 it only takes 150 rounds (I'll check the load on the rounds for the shotgun and reedit this later) to foul the barrel. So if that g11 has such a high rate of fire I cant imagine the kind of foul caseless ammo would leave on the weapon. 6-10 magazines (30 round) would probobly affect the performance of it. I'm just speculating, maybe its cleaner or something.

Thansal · May 2003

hmm, I am still unsure if these RoFs that are being quoted are any where near acurate

if you think about it, 3 shots before frecoil takes effect?
makes no sence (metal storm does it b/c it has all of the ammo stored IN the barrel, thus no insertting into the chamber)

again, as I remember the G11 was designed to be lower maintenance, less likely to jam etc etc

basicaly it didn't owrk out b/c of $$ reasons <img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'>

Brave_Ulysses · May 2003

You don't get as much recoil with caseless ammo too.

So I've heard...

Salty · May 2003

</span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Brave Ulysses @ May 13 2003, 08:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> You don't get as much recoil with caseless ammo too.

So I've heard...  </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> 
You get recoil because of newton's third law of phyisics. Unless caseless ammo is slower or has less mass you shouldn't.

I don't think having an RPM that high can be a good thing IMO.

NumbersNotFound · May 2003

<a href='http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm' target='_blank'>Everything you ever wanted to know about caseless ammo and the G11</a>

Dubers · May 2003

That thing kicks serious ****! Jus had a look at the vidoes on that site. Shame it was never commisioned.

What Is Caseless Ammo?

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