<!--QuoteBegin--Error404:+Apr 18 2003, 11:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Error404: @ Apr 18 2003, 11:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Howabout this, I just got an idea, howabout you put a trojan in these cheats, and when someone installs it on their puter, it scans for kiddie porn and if it finds any it reports you to the authorities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Can't - you don't have a search warrant so the evidence isn't permissible. However, law makers are working so that they can put a trojan on ANYONE'S computer and spy on them for various purposes (mostly anti-terrorism). They also want to be able to require ISPs to report any details of internet use to authorities.
<!--QuoteBegin--Ahnteis+Apr 18 2003, 11:16 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Ahnteis @ Apr 18 2003, 11:16 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Can't - you don't have a search warrant so the evidence isn't permissible. However, law makers are working so that they can put a trojan on ANYONE'S computer and spy on them for various purposes (mostly anti-terrorism). They also want to be able to require ISPs to report any details of internet use to authorities. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> This is FUD, and another example of someone that doesn't toally understand the PATRIOT act. Don't get me wrong, I have issues with the PATRIOT act, but it's not nearly as Orwellian as people like you make it out to be.
Now, to get back on topic: This is funny ^_^ However, this should be taken with a grain of salt. Admins shouldn't blanket ban someone just because he or she is on that list. Some people are either one time users or system admins that want to test the cheat to see what it's capable of. These people have no intention of using them to cause grief and shouldn't be lumped in with those that do. However, it's hard to seperate people like that in a list of 500 or so unique people -_- Sooooo... do detective work before you drop the bomb on someone.
<!--QuoteBegin--babygirl+Apr 18 2003, 05:22 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (babygirl @ Apr 18 2003, 05:22 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> This is FUD, and another example of someone that doesn't toally understand the PATRIOT act. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> The discussion isn't about this subject so why would I elaborate more then bare idea?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Admins shouldn't blanket ban someone just because he or she is on that list. Some people are either one time users or system admins that want to test the cheat to see what it's capable of.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the other hand, is it really such a loss to ban 1 person that may have been "just trying it out" on public servers? There are so many players that losing a few mostly-non-cheaters along with the cheaters isn't really a loss.
Don't want to get on the list, don't cheat. Not even just to try it out.
The Roaster John cheat was made to stop cheaters in TFC. billdoor and company made it for that.
If you people want the full story on this stuff you should read the Catacombs. Daily enterainment for life <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Most of the people on the list that actually matter within the TFC community have either admitted to it or been proven to hack. There has been detective work done too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Apr 18 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Apr 18 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its hilarious how flexible our morals are...Its also quite hilarious how everyone seems to think this will somehow stop cheating.
I dont agree with this in the least, so I must be a cheater eh? (rolls eyes) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> And who's saying this?
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Apr 18 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Apr 18 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I dont agree with this in the least, so I must be a cheater eh? <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> with that kind of (failed sarcastic) logic youd better give me your shoes.
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Apr 18 2003, 08:08 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Apr 18 2003, 08:08 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Its hilarious how flexible our morals are...Its also quite hilarious how everyone seems to think this will somehow stop cheating.
I dont agree with this in the least, so I must be a cheater eh? (rolls eyes) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Explain......
I think this is a beautiful thing... imagine how scared **** and annoyed they must be.... But like others have said, dont ban because they are on the list, if they join your server they look suspicious and they are on the list then ban them.... but i will never give my support to any type of global ban list or anything..... too many innocent people or mistakes could happen. I remember when blizzard posted and banned all those hackers on wc3 last year hahaha like all of the top 20 people on the ladder were banned..... and guess what? THEY WERE ALL "innocent" hehe <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
You cant break the law to stop lawbreakers. Gamers want to put an end to cheating, and many others want to put an end to gaming. Would we accept those people using such tactics to further thier agenda? No...but in <i>this</i> case your morals bend, because it suits you. I dont agree with this type of behavior for any reason...even though this trojan horse could benifit my gaming experience overall. I dont support it because thier methods are wrong, and arguably illegal.
Yes I do find the humor in getting this "cheat" hosted on the OGC site, but I still dont agree.
..and for all you people who cant quite grasp the sarcasm of that last comment I made in my other post, I think Crouching hamster sums it up best by saying <b>"I approve, and would be a little suspicious of anyone who didn't..?"</b>
simplified logic if you ask me.
I wholeheartedly agree with catching cheaters, but I absolutely disagree with using such a method to do so.
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Apr 19 2003, 04:33 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Apr 19 2003, 04:33 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You cant break the law to stop lawbreakers...
...I wholeheartedly agree with catching cheaters, but I absolutely disagree with using such a method to do so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> What law was broken? What was wrong with the method?
All the cheat did was log it's use...THAT'S IT! It didn't damage your system, it didn't render your game un-usable, it don't do <b>anything</b> to your computer. All it did was tell Billdoor that his cheat was being used. Like I said before, you might be able to label the cheat "spyware", but there is nothing illegal about that.
Well it IS unethical to make programs that does more than you say they do But then again it IS unethical to cheat in multiplayer games <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo--> Im not too sure they acctually broke any laws And if they did remember this is the internet Laws vary greatly seeing as how everyone's in a different country...
I guess no laws were broken scince, these days, Trojan horse (once called a virus) are called "spyware". I dont agree with spyware anyway...In fact, I despise it. Nonetheless...the method is wrong in that, it was intentionally misleading. The way I see it is, if its wrong in one case its wrong in any case. And I dont really agree with Black lists in the first place.
This falls under the same scope as you buying illegal firearms from an undercover policeman. No one made you buy something to hurt others... no one made you download a cheat. In both cases, you knew you were breaking the rules, and have to expect to pay some consequences. I have little sympathy for people who ruin the gaming community complaining about being caught. The 'spyware from websites' analogy is not applicable.
If it wasn't for their behavior, NS (and other games) would come out a lot faster, I assure you. But we have to waste a huge amount of time making sure that cheating isn't easy...
Screw cheaters and the idiot parents that made them.
<!--QuoteBegin--Parasite+Apr 19 2003, 11:33 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Parasite @ Apr 19 2003, 11:33 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> You cant break the law to stop lawbreakers. Gamers want to put an end to cheating, and many others want to put an end to gaming. Would we accept those people using such tactics to further thier agenda? No...but in <i>this</i> case your morals bend, because it suits you. I dont agree with this type of behavior for any reason...even though this trojan horse could benifit my gaming experience overall. I dont support it because thier methods are wrong, and arguably illegal.
Yes I do find the humor in getting this "cheat" hosted on the OGC site, but I still dont agree.
..and for all you people who cant quite grasp the sarcasm of that last comment I made in my other post, I think Crouching hamster sums it up best by saying <b>"I approve, and would be a little suspicious of anyone who didn't..?"</b>
simplified logic if you ask me.
I wholeheartedly agree with catching cheaters, but I absolutely disagree with using such a method to do so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> Maybe it was all in the license agreement, nobody reads those things anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem with releasing this list (although it had to be done at some point, just to be of any use) is that cheaters will be on the lookout for any unusual activity from new cheats. The second they spot one calling home (or if someone knows enough to disassemble the code and check for this kind of routine) it will be reported and probably drop out of circulation, making the whole thing less effective than this sting. It would have been good for updating something like VAC, although the ethical problems involved would make it a less than perfect solution.
As far as the 'two wrongs' bit goes, maybe it was wrong for this guy to create a trojan. But that's the risk with downloading software from the internet, especially if you're running executables created by the HACKING COMMUNITY. It's the risk they took, and in this case it didn't pay off. Boo hoo. It's terrible when people like this ruin the good reputation of the cheating community
<!--QuoteBegin---NegaBenji-+Apr 19 2003, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-NegaBenji- @ Apr 19 2003, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with releasing this list (although it had to be done at some point, just to be of any use) is that cheaters will be on the lookout for any unusual activity from new cheats. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> That's like the best part ! hehe People will be afraid of cheats
<!--QuoteBegin--Jower+Apr 19 2003, 01:00 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Jower @ Apr 19 2003, 01:00 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin---NegaBenji-+Apr 19 2003, 06:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (-NegaBenji- @ Apr 19 2003, 06:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> The problem with releasing this list (although it had to be done at some point, just to be of any use) is that cheaters will be on the lookout for any unusual activity from new cheats. <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> That's like the best part ! hehe People will be afraid of cheats <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd--> No no, I mean every time a new cheat comes out it will be checked to make sure the same thing doesn't happen again. Which means that this kind of trap probably won't ever work again, unless it behaves in a radically different way. I'm sure casual cheaters will be scared away, but most others will probably wait for a cheat to be cleared and then use it - I wouldn't imagine it would take too long. Still, it's positive all-round <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
Comments
Maybe even pie.
Possibly the first ever incidence of Spyware being cool.
Can't - you don't have a search warrant so the evidence isn't permissible. However, law makers are working so that they can put a trojan on ANYONE'S computer and spy on them for various purposes (mostly anti-terrorism). They also want to be able to require ISPs to report any details of internet use to authorities.
This is FUD, and another example of someone that doesn't toally understand the PATRIOT act. Don't get me wrong, I have issues with the PATRIOT act, but it's not nearly as Orwellian as people like you make it out to be.
Now, to get back on topic: This is funny ^_^ However, this should be taken with a grain of salt. Admins shouldn't blanket ban someone just because he or she is on that list. Some people are either one time users or system admins that want to test the cheat to see what it's capable of. These people have no intention of using them to cause grief and shouldn't be lumped in with those that do. However, it's hard to seperate people like that in a list of 500 or so unique people -_- Sooooo... do detective work before you drop the bomb on someone.
The discussion isn't about this subject so why would I elaborate more then bare idea?
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Admins shouldn't blanket ban someone just because he or she is on that list. Some people are either one time users or system admins that want to test the cheat to see what it's capable of.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On the other hand, is it really such a loss to ban 1 person that may have been "just trying it out" on public servers? There are so many players that losing a few mostly-non-cheaters along with the cheaters isn't really a loss.
Don't want to get on the list, don't cheat. Not even just to try it out.
If you people want the full story on this stuff you should read the Catacombs. Daily enterainment for life <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Most of the people on the list that actually matter within the TFC community have either admitted to it or been proven to hack. There has been detective work done too <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
I dont agree with this in the least, so I must be a cheater eh? (rolls eyes)
Feck the cheaters, feck them , their relatives and their pets.
Anything that exposes them as the idiots they are , must be applauded surely?
/Them and their momma......
I approve, and would be a little suspicious of anyone who didn't..?
I dont agree with this in the least, so I must be a cheater eh? (rolls eyes) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
And who's saying this?
with that kind of (failed sarcastic) logic youd better give me your shoes.
I dont agree with this in the least, so I must be a cheater eh? (rolls eyes) <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Explain......
Yes I do find the humor in getting this "cheat" hosted on the OGC site, but I still dont agree.
..and for all you people who cant quite grasp the sarcasm of that last comment I made in my other post, I think Crouching hamster sums it up best by saying <b>"I approve, and would be a little suspicious of anyone who didn't..?"</b>
simplified logic if you ask me.
I wholeheartedly agree with catching cheaters, but I absolutely disagree with using such a method to do so.
...I wholeheartedly agree with catching cheaters, but I absolutely disagree with using such a method to do so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
What law was broken? What was wrong with the method?
All the cheat did was log it's use...THAT'S IT! It didn't damage your system, it didn't render your game un-usable, it don't do <b>anything</b> to your computer. All it did was tell Billdoor that his cheat was being used. Like I said before, you might be able to label the cheat "spyware", but there is nothing illegal about that.
But then again it IS unethical to cheat in multiplayer games <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im not too sure they acctually broke any laws
And if they did remember this is the internet
Laws vary greatly seeing as how everyone's in a different country...
If it wasn't for their behavior, NS (and other games) would come out a lot faster, I assure you. But we have to waste a huge amount of time making sure that cheating isn't easy...
Screw cheaters and the idiot parents that made them.
Yes I do find the humor in getting this "cheat" hosted on the OGC site, but I still dont agree.
..and for all you people who cant quite grasp the sarcasm of that last comment I made in my other post, I think Crouching hamster sums it up best by saying <b>"I approve, and would be a little suspicious of anyone who didn't..?"</b>
simplified logic if you ask me.
I wholeheartedly agree with catching cheaters, but I absolutely disagree with using such a method to do so. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
Maybe it was all in the license agreement, nobody reads those things anyway <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->
The problem with releasing this list (although it had to be done at some point, just to be of any use) is that cheaters will be on the lookout for any unusual activity from new cheats. The second they spot one calling home (or if someone knows enough to disassemble the code and check for this kind of routine) it will be reported and probably drop out of circulation, making the whole thing less effective than this sting. It would have been good for updating something like VAC, although the ethical problems involved would make it a less than perfect solution.
As far as the 'two wrongs' bit goes, maybe it was wrong for this guy to create a trojan. But that's the risk with downloading software from the internet, especially if you're running executables created by the HACKING COMMUNITY. It's the risk they took, and in this case it didn't pay off. Boo hoo. It's terrible when people like this ruin the good reputation of the cheating community
That's like the best part !
hehe
People will be afraid of cheats
That's like the best part !
hehe
People will be afraid of cheats <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'> <!--QuoteEEnd-->
No no, I mean every time a new cheat comes out it will be checked to make sure the same thing doesn't happen again. Which means that this kind of trap probably won't ever work again, unless it behaves in a radically different way. I'm sure casual cheaters will be scared away, but most others will probably wait for a cheat to be cleared and then use it - I wouldn't imagine it would take too long. Still, it's positive all-round <!--emo&:p--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/tounge.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tounge.gif'><!--endemo-->