Can Someone Explain To Me What Bunny Hopping Is?
killswitch
Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13141Members, Constellation
Join Date: 2003-02-05 Member: 13141Members, Constellation
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Makes you much harder to hit
Also makes it harder to hit others but thats another story <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
makes u move rather fast <!--emo&???--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/confused.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='confused.gif'><!--endemo--> , its done but uses jump/strafe and forward. if ur good a marien can almost out run a skulk <!--emo&:(--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif'><!--endemo-->
anyway dont use it, bad
As marine you can outrun a sulk easily while bhopping BACKWARDS and shooting at him...
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heh, ok facts time.
Quake engine games (including HL) have no air friction, but have a value corresponding to floor friction. When you are in contact with the floor you lose speed at so many units per second / per second. This is what makes you stop going when you release +forward.
This friction kicks in as soon as you land, and the longer you spend on the floor without holding +forwards, the more speed you'll lose untill you are stationary. This then brings up the question - What happens if you press jump the instant you hit the floor? Friction doesn't kick in, and you lose no speed. This is bunnyhopping.
In itself, this would be meaningless, but there is another quirk of the quake engine that you can use in conjunction with bunnyhopping. Because of the way air control works, it is possible to accelerate in the air when turning, air acceleration can potentially bring you above normal running speed, but as soon as you hit the floor you are subject to friction, so you lose this extra speed. If you jump, accelerate in the air and then use bunnyhopping to avoid floor friction, you can hop along faster than you are able to run normally.
To limit the use of this, valve has built in a limiter to bunnyhopping speed. Whenever you move at greater than 170% of your base running speed, you trip the limiter. This limiter will drop you back down to normal running speed as soon as you touch the floor (even if you hop). This means a bunnyhopper typically accelerates over several jumps, untill he breaks the 170% mark, then lands and loses all his speed before beginning to accelerate again.
Because of the limiter, it is not possible for a bunnyhopping marine to outpace a running skulk over any distance. And it certainly isnt possible for a hopping marine to outpace a hopping skulk in any circumstance. (Skulks can hop just as well as marines, and their limit is 170% of their much higher base speed, meaning they have a higher top speed).
However, I tend to think of bunnyhopping as any time a marine is jumping around excessively (read: any time a skulk is in the room). You just can't land a hit on the **** while they hop around and blow your head off.
There are two major types of bunnyhopping that exist in NS, each with a variant. Here they are, and their future in NS (at the time of this posting, Subject To Change):
1) jumping in conjunction with air control to gain speed, as described by TeoH. This will be removed in 1.1.
1a) performing (1) while crouched, resulting in fast, silent movement (as crouching makes you silent, including jumping). This will be removed in 1.1.
2) jumping repeatedly to avoid attacks. This will remain in.
2a) performing (2) while crouched, resulting in a very difficult-to-hit marine. This is because the crouched hitboxes are buggy; they will be fixed in 1.1, invalidating this tactic.
its called STRAFE JUMPING! get it right. also another bug common in any quake engine game... strafe against the wall as you move forward, you gain a lot of speed.
I don't play counter-strike, i've been calling it bunnyhopping since quakeworld newb.
No I really had no idea what it was. To be honest, I didn't like the original Half Life game and I hated CS and only played TF for a short period of time.
I did play Starcraft but 'bunny hopping' wasn't as popular <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif'><!--endemo-->
Im pretty sure he meant it as a joke...
Or as hatemail for CS for that matter
-K
Ramp jumping (At least of the up-ramp variety) is sorely missing in half-life :/
No, try to be less ignorant.
-Strafe jumping is while pushing forward and strafe. It can get you to 140% speed.
-Wallstrafing can do the same. Just run along a wall with strafe key pressed.
-In bhop you NEVER push forward, because it kills your speed and air control. It has 170% speed limit, which gets checked only when you jump. If you have troubles grasping the concept, look at some TFC offense demos.
Seriously, bunnyhopping in CS or NS isn't a good thing because it breaks the balance and some of the game's aspect.
BUT who has played QuakeWorld in the good old days can easily member that bunnyhopping was a great skill!
It required a lot of practice to do it goodly and it gived great advantage to the players who really knowed how to do it.
Personaly I think that bunnyhopping is a skill next to good aiming or good FPS movement etc. When the bunnyhopping is removed, there will be one skill lesser which really needs time to develop and learn.
Actually, the advice "never press forwards" is a failsafe given to new players who are just learning the technique. When you begin to learn, you start off with the most basic form of air control - facing forwards, holding a strafe and turning. But you can pivot off any directional control you want to, and transition between them midhop with a bit of practice. The aim being to be able to turn while facing in any direction you want to, in order to fight while hopping.
As an example to get you started, run forwards then jump, now don't hold a strafe and only hold +forwards in the air. Turn your mouse 90 degrees to the side while hopping, then slowly edge it further away from the direction you are travelling and you will turn in the air. To turn the opposite way while holding forwards, you will have to snap your view 180 degrees to the other side, and do the same. The effect of this is exactly the same as hopping with the strafe keys, except that instead of facing where you are going, you face towards the center of your turning circle. Allowing you to bunnyhop in circles around something while facing it and firing (ie. a hive, the air control works identically with a jetpack)
You can do the same with any combination of directional keys to bunnyhop backwards, bunnyhop facing the outside of your turning circle, bunnyhop on a diagonal angle or transition between any of these pivots mid hop.
The skill has always been in the air control, not the act of jumping. Let them use all the mousewheels they like, i can accel faster and control the hop better than some TFC newb.
I'm not thinking that bunnyhopping should be kept in NS. it is wery true that it isn't a part of the NS world and it breaks the good athmosphere which NS has.
But I'm so tired with people saying that bunnyhopping, rocket jumping, customising your controls etc is a cheat or an exploit. Rocket jumpin or bunnyhopping was a great skill in Quake where it fitted wery good because the only thing about QW was frags and the better you are, the more you will kill people and the more you will get frags. Things like bunnyhopping or rocket jumping was just a way to get more frags. Complex bindings and alias definitions and in-game variables (like r_drawviewmodels) are just your personal control and visual interface customisation, nothing more. If Flayra says that r_drawviewmodel 0 is an exploit, things gets a bit different, but r_drawviewmodel exists so that the models can be turned off to get better FPS (for example).
But NS is different, I'm not arguing with that.
Everyone can't be in the same starting line. The computer equipment is different (they say that the muzzle flash in 640x400 res is *way* too big. I have no problem with it but I'm using 1024x768 res! the r_drawviewmodel 0 is the perfect available way to fix this problem). The one who has poor computer with modem and plays with 20fps is much weaker than a player with newest hardware with a 100MBps broadband connection and fps always over 100fps. The console and the in-game modifiers can be a great help for there players who can't afford a new computer. Think about that ppl when you say that everything which isn't selectable from the in-game menus is an exploit.
I hated TFC bhopping with a passion, and not just because I could never get the hang of it. To put it into NS context: imaging a HA\HMG moving at the same speed as a celerity skulk and you have some idea of what a bhopping Heavy Weapons Guy is. It's just as bad for game balance, too. You can't hit anyone, the game's less fun. I never saw it as a skill, only as an engine exploit. I always argued that, unlike rocket jumping (also an engine exploit) it detracted from gameplay rather than enhanced it.
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TFC's HWguy may well have been broken with the introduction of hopping to the mod, but this scenario is specific to TFC, and TFC's brand of hopping. You cannot use this example to argue for/against hopping in other games, because the technique comes in many different forms and effects games in different ways. As a perfect counter-example to TFC, have a look at Q3F beta1h. This mod was made by clan players of the original QWTH, and is designed from the ground up with bunnyhopping in mind. It's fast, fast as hell when played by top teams, but the game works. Scouts leave their respawn and conc-hop-ramp jump their way into the enemy RR in a matter of seconds. Opposing teams soldiers try to interupt the others hop with rockets aimed infront of them as they hop past eachother in the midfield, and the HWguy stays firmly in his defensive position, because he can't walk/jump and shoot at the same time. Bunnyhopping didn't just enhance Q3Fs gameplay, it was an essential component of it.
Q3F and TFC are examples of 2 games which have the same basic gametype, but are effected very differently by a technique which has the same name in both mods. Q3F's bunnyhopping differed from TFC's, in the same way that NS's hopping right now is considerably different to the unlimited hopping that was originally part of TFC. During my time playing Q3F it was common for players originally from TFC to come along and try the mod, almost all of which started to rant about hopping on message boards after roughly an hour of play. These people brought all their pre-defined opinions about hopping from TFC, few even understood how hopping worked and none understood the differences between TFC and Q3F hopping, or its effect on the game balance. Words such as 'exploit' were thrown around, along with the recurring argument that bunnyhopping messes up class balance or in some way destroys the game.... These people had played so little they didn't even understand the class balance, nevermind how it was altered by bunnyhopping. This was their automatic reactionary argument to anything that they thought "looked silly". Of course, they were laughed off the forums by the community and the mod developers.
Even though Q3F was created with hopping in mind, (They altered Q3A physics to make hopping closer to QW) physics quirks such as this are present in many games that did not originally account for them and they ultimately enhance the game. From QW to Tribes, you'll see bunnyhopping, or similar quirks such as rocket jumping that have been embraced by the community and have become a crucial part of the game.
In short, this has degenerated into an argument over the merits of bunnyhopping, when it was originally just a request for information. Information given, thread done with. Thank you.
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That could also be because there is a knock-back from skulk bites, a guy said that he had leaped up to the catwalk in viaduct where a marine was standing on the handrail, bit the marine, and watched him fly away, and crater to his death.
So if someone jumps they get thrown back ALOT, really annoying when its succesful.