Player pressure limitations

devon_harrison

The player should be limited on how far they can go down. IRL man can not get to the bottom of the ocean with just our body's we would be crushed to death same with O2 tanks in the normal difficulty the player should just take damage when below the safe depth while in hardcore mode they risk rupturing there suits and O2 tanks. ( below is a List of gear needed for the depths and build cost)

0-200 scuba suit, O2 tank
Scuba suit: none ; O2 tank: titanium×2, glass

0-400 dive suit, reabreather, O2 tank
Dive suit: fiber mesh×2, titanium×2 ; reabreather: wiring kit, fiber mesh ; O2 tank: titanium×2, glass

0-600 reinforced dive suit, reinforced rebreather, reinforce O2 tank
Suit: synthetic fiber×2, titanium ingot ; reinforced reabreather: reabreather, synthetic fibers ; reinforced O2 tank: titanium ingot×2, glass×2

0-800 plasteel dive suit, plasteel helmet, plasteel O2 tank
Suit: synthetic fibers×2, plasteel ; helmet: plasteel, enameled glass ; O2 tank: plasteel×2, enameled glass

The rest of the way you are limited to your prawn suit. BTW you should be able to access vehicle storage and torpedo bays from inside the vehicle

EvilSmoo

That is not how SCUBA diving works, you should read up on it. Though I confess my knowledge of the subject isn't huge either. So I should as well.

I think the main limiter for dive time is tank size and pressure. And the limiter for depth is dive time, since you need to come back up slowly to avoid nitrogen bubbles when breathing regular compressed air. And you can only carry so much tank. And there's an upper limit to the pressure you can shove into the tank.

Plus, people aren't really keen on eating and other biological functions in the water.

Pressure, though, doesn't so much matter. Temperature, sure, that matters. But when you dive, EVERYTHING is at high pressure, but as long as the tank can get air into your lungs, you should be fine? I think, theoretically, given enough time, food, and tanks that can get air into lungs at super-deep pressures, a person should be able to survive any depth. (Plus a flap on the butt of your dive suit...) But swimming down and down for days into the black would kind of suck. Definitely a thing to do only when you're dead. Probably get eaten by crabs and other scavengers.

But only rigid bodies like subs need to worry about crushing. The water compresses all over, so as long as you can breathe, you are generally fine, as human bodies aren't rigid.

But mainly, SN isn't realistic. And I know enough about dive tables and all that rot to not mind that one bit.

flagg209

It is very complicated, and you can't come even close with the way this game is currently designed. The deepest scuba dive ever was to 318 meters or about 1044 feet. It took 12 minutes to dive to that depth, and 14 hours to resurface. The diver needed 9 tanks to handle that decompression time because like stated by EvilSmoo you need to let the nitrogen out of your body, and it takes a while to do so.

I agree, they should most certainly not turn this into a scuba sim, as the reality of it is, you're looking at a max bottom time of maybe 40 minutes and if you have any hope of going back down to that depth again, at least a 2-3 hour off gas time.

This game is a lot more fun throwing that out the window.

0x6A7232

@All: you probably would get something out of this:

http://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/27/diving-and-oxygen

Appalaxis

devon_harrison wrote: »

The player should be limited on how far they can go down. IRL man can not get to the bottom of the ocean with just our body's we would be crushed to death same with O2 tanks in the normal difficulty the player should just take damage when below the safe depth while in hardcore mode they risk rupturing there suits and O2 tanks. ( below is a List of gear needed for the depths and build cost)

0-200 scuba suit, O2 tank
Scuba suit: none ; O2 tank: titanium×2, glass

0-400 dive suit, reabreather, O2 tank
Dive suit: fiber mesh×2, titanium×2 ; reabreather: wiring kit, fiber mesh ; O2 tank: titanium×2, glass

0-600 reinforced dive suit, reinforced rebreather, reinforce O2 tank
Suit: synthetic fiber×2, titanium ingot ; reinforced reabreather: reabreather, synthetic fibers ; reinforced O2 tank: titanium ingot×2, glass×2

0-800 plasteel dive suit, plasteel helmet, plasteel O2 tank
Suit: synthetic fibers×2, plasteel ; helmet: plasteel, enameled glass ; O2 tank: plasteel×2, enameled glass

The rest of the way you are limited to your prawn suit. BTW you should be able to access vehicle storage and torpedo bays from inside the vehicle

I agree to your suggestions and it does seem illogical to exit a vehicle which is constrained to crush depth and not be affected by it.. Why need the vehicle in the first place if you can just swim there without being killed? The only factor in the game that affects the player the deeper they go without a vehicle is the rate at which the oxygen depletes. That at least does make some sense.

Ofcourse this is just a game and realism to the point of real life is not mandatory. Everyone's opinion differs to what kind of realism games should have.

Appalaxis

This reminded me of how the player currently enter/exits vehicles and habitats..

An airlock is a device which permits the passage of people and objects between a pressure vessel and its surroundings while minimizing the change of pressure in the vessel and loss of air from it. The lock consists of a small chamber with two airtight doors in series which do not open simultaneously.

An airlock may be used for passage between environments of different gases rather than different pressures, to minimize or prevent the gases from mixing.

An airlock may also be used underwater to allow passage between an air environment in a pressure vessel and the water environment outside, in which case the airlock can contain air or water. This is called a floodable airlock or an underwater airlock, and is used to prevent water from entering a submersible vessel or an underwater habitat.

- Courtesy of Wikipedia

ipohondric

In case of seamoth, it's possible that it IS flooded when player enters, and then all water just pumped out...
It's fine with cyclopus, since player enters it from below, like with moonpool...
So, only problematic (unreal) airlock is - Base entry

ipohondric

As far as i understand, that special "ALL Environment Protection Suit" is a future technology, thats why it can handle pressure even at 1500 meters deep and thus make decompression unnesesarry...
BUT, as far as subnautica/wiki says, there IS a cheat command, that gives you more air AND a need to watch out about decompression

ipohondric

Real question in that case - how exactly those airtanks can refill themselves just by having access to air?
As far as i know, you'll need a special refilling tech... besides

EvilSmoo wrote: »

I think the main limiter for dive time is tank size and pressure. And the limiter for depth is dive time, since you need to come back up slowly to avoid nitrogen bubbles when breathing regular compressed air. And you can only carry so much tank. And there's an upper limit to the pressure you can shove into the tank.

Plus, people aren't really keen on eating and other biological functions in the water.

Pressure, though, doesn't so much matter. Temperature, sure, that matters. But when you dive, EVERYTHING is at high pressure, but as long as the tank can get air into your lungs, you should be fine? I think, theoretically, given enough time, food, and tanks that can get air into lungs at super-deep pressures, a person should be able to survive any depth. (Plus a flap on the butt of your dive suit...) But swimming down and down for days into the black would kind of suck. Definitely a thing to do only when you're dead. Probably get eaten by crabs and other scavengers.

But only rigid bodies like subs need to worry about crushing. The water compresses all over, so as long as you can breathe, you are generally fine, as human bodies aren't rigid.

You think? human bodies ARE not rigid, but deep dwelling fish is FLAT.
If i recall correctly, water pressure is mesured by... 1bar per 10meters deep...
At 1000meters it is 100bar, same pressure in your lungs and all meet between lungs and skin will be around 2-3mm flat

Kouji_San

This is more of a gameplay > realism kinda thing.


The only thing which kinda bothers me is that you can indeed just exit your submarines, because they cannot go any deeper and require upgrades, while you as a diver are able to just float around at that same depth It feels like they're going with the air supply/energy management bit, so you want to go deeper? Sure ya need a mobile air supply (submarine) for that.

It feels a bit forced this way though...


Just saw Wade play an older underwater game back in 2014, Farsky. Their air tanks last a few minutes, future Alterra tech really sucks at scuba gear Well so does Farsky tech soooooo...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8bYVU1sQ9Q

ipohondric

Don't think so, seaglide (not a sub) is enough to reach a seriously deep water AND go to surface in matter of seconds...
Seamoth can save you from stalkers, bleeders, biters, mesmers and other small threats (read - annoyance)
Cyclopus - more like a mobile base that gives you ability to move large amount or resourses around the world. it's made to be cool AND to save you from a few dozen trips between resource rich area and your permanent base

Appalaxis

ipohondric wrote: »

In case of seamoth, it's possible that it IS flooded when player enters, and then all water just pumped out...
It's fine with cyclops, since player enters it from below, like with moonpool...
So, only problematic (unreal) airlock is - Base entry

Ok, the only time the player sees an animation for an action in an enclosed space is when they climb the ladder inside the escape pod. Otherwise there are no animations for entering/exiting vehicles or bases. That alone is abit of a con for me. Putting a hatch on a habitat alone does not constitute it not being flooded when you open it right??

Imagine getting into one of your vehicles and watching as water drain away as the chamber compresses with air and vice versa when you exit again.

EvilSmoo

ipohondric wrote: »

Real question in that case - how exactly those airtanks can refill themselves just by having access to air?
As far as i know, you'll need a special refilling tech... besides

EvilSmoo wrote: »

I think the main limiter for dive time is tank size and pressure. And the limiter for depth is dive time, since you need to come back up slowly to avoid nitrogen bubbles when breathing regular compressed air. And you can only carry so much tank. And there's an upper limit to the pressure you can shove into the tank.

Plus, people aren't really keen on eating and other biological functions in the water.

Pressure, though, doesn't so much matter. Temperature, sure, that matters. But when you dive, EVERYTHING is at high pressure, but as long as the tank can get air into your lungs, you should be fine? I think, theoretically, given enough time, food, and tanks that can get air into lungs at super-deep pressures, a person should be able to survive any depth. (Plus a flap on the butt of your dive suit...) But swimming down and down for days into the black would kind of suck. Definitely a thing to do only when you're dead. Probably get eaten by crabs and other scavengers.

But only rigid bodies like subs need to worry about crushing. The water compresses all over, so as long as you can breathe, you are generally fine, as human bodies aren't rigid.

You think? human bodies ARE not rigid, but deep dwelling fish is FLAT.
If i recall correctly, water pressure is mesured by... 1bar per 10meters deep...
At 1000meters it is 100bar, same pressure in your lungs and all meet between lungs and skin will be around 2-3mm flat

That is not how any of that works. Deepsea fish are NOT flat.

Let me try and explain. This entire process is gradual, you don't just appear underwater at sea-level pressure, you move downward. As you move down, the tank keeps shoving air into your lungs at slightly higher pressure than the surrounding water. (Aside note: once the water pressure is greater than tank pressure, it will stop working...)

The pressure pushes on you from every possible angle. There is no low-pressure location on your body, since you are not a ribbed metal hull that can sustain the force.

Your main disconnect appears to be in how pressure works. Pressure does not make things flat. Why would it? Sea pressure is not a solid plate pressing you into another solid plate, it is liquid pressure.

0x6A7232

The other thing about deep sea diving besides nitrogen narcosis is oxygen toxicity, too much oxygen will apparently kill you as well if it's high enough pressure, but they seem to solve for that by reducing the concentration of oxygen in the breathing mix.

I'm not sure how deep you'd have to go to risk damaging yourself by the pressures around you, I'm sure there's a point at which the pressure required to force air into your lungs would damage them (maybe?), and I'm not sure how well everything else would work (blood circulation) -- we are stuck with the nitrogen and oxygen toxicity problems so we haven't really gotten to that point, would be my guess, but I bet someone could figure it out.

ipohondric

Appalaxis wrote: »

Ok, the only time the player sees an animation for an action in an enclosed space is when they climb the ladder inside the escape pod. Otherwise there are no animations for entering/exiting vehicles or bases. That alone is abit of a con for me. Putting a hatch on a habitat alone does not constitute it not being flooded when you open it right??

Imagine getting into one of your vehicles and watching as water drain away as the chamber compresses with air and vice versa when you exit again.

Well, it IS an early access game, AND it's already have an opening for realistic problem

ipohondric wrote: »

there IS a cheat command, that gives you more air AND a need to watch out about decompression

Too bad it's only by cheat... Would be nice to have it in options

Maybe "getting into one of your vehicles and watching as water drain away" is not here YET?
Besides, even if THEY not going to make it. Mods?